nmoira Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 As of Tuesday this week, the four page Paulson plan. Oops. Make that three pages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisa Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 For the sake of our country, I hope they work something good out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle T Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 As they should IMHO- government has no business in these issues other than to preserve people's rights to decide for themselves. The only "concern" people need to have over gay marriage is whether or not they themselves wish to enter into one. Yep. Gotta love the way conservatives are against government intervention, except when it is intervention in private matters in people's lives, or when it means legislating their religious beliefs. Michelle T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katrina Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 And if I hear "it was Obama's idea first" one more time I am going to puke. So what if it was his idea first. The bottom line is one of them talked about doing it and the other actually did it. I'll take a man of action any day of the week. You're right, it's not about who called who first. It's about who tried to manipulate the situation, Obama, and the American people. Personally, McCain is reminding me more and more of Hillary. Good politicians running bad campaigns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 A bailout deal has been reached. I'm glad he'll be able to make the debates on Friday and the VP debates can go on as planned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny in Atl Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 You're right, it's not about who called who first. It's about who tried to manipulate the situation, Obama, and the American people. Personally, McCain is reminding me more and more of Hillary. Good politicians running bad campaigns. More and more McCain does not sound like himself. No straight talk, hiding from the press. Letterman was spot on last night. McCain has let his handlers take over, and it's not going over real well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katrina Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 As they should IMHO- government has no business in these issues other than to preserve people's rights to decide for themselves. The only "concern" people need to have over gay marriage is whether or not they themselves wish to enter into one. :iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree: I tried to rep you but I have to spread it around, so I have to do it publicly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 A bailout deal has been reached. I'm glad he'll be able to make the debates on Friday and the VP debates can go on as planned. Isn't it Friday somewhere in the world? ;) We'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kokotg Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 More and more McCain does not sound like himself. No straight talk, hiding from the press. Letterman was spot on last night. McCain has let his handlers take over, and it's not going over real well. I've heard this sentiment echoed over and over again over the past couple of weeks by a big range of people (Chris Matthews, James Carville, and now David Letterman)...this campaign has become so unMcCainlike that McCain can't possibly really be in charge. I have no idea if it's true or not, really, but it strikes me as an incredibly damaging narrative to have out there, at any rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Academy of Jedi Arts Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 I've heard this sentiment echoed over and over again over the past couple of weeks by a big range of people (Chris Matthews, James Carville, and now David Letterman)...this campaign has become so unMcCainlike that McCain can't possibly really be in charge. I have no idea if it's true or not, really, but it strikes me as an incredibly damaging narrative to have out there, at any rate. And if this is how his campaign is run, how will he manage his duties in the White House? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peek a Boo Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 Dismaying that a VP candidate apparently supports or cooperates with a cleric who holds primitive superstitious belief of a particularly virulent nature. This whole mess reads like a transplanted Carl Hiassen novel. um, that was kinda the same concerns w/ the Democratic party's Presidential nominee and HIS cleric......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tibbyl Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 um, that was kinda the same concerns w/ the Democratic party's Presidential nominee and HIS cleric......... Really? Jeremiah Wright believed in and hunted witches? Could you please provide documentation? I am aware of the accusations of lack of patriotism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 I've heard this sentiment echoed over and over again over the past couple of weeks by a big range of people (Chris Matthews, James Carville, and now David Letterman)...this campaign has become so unMcCainlike that McCain can't possibly really be in charge. I have no idea if it's true or not, really, but it strikes me as an incredibly damaging narrative to have out there, at any rate. I dunno. There comes a point that you have to start looking at the man himself and question how much he is willing to compromise his principles to gain power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer3141 Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 A bailout deal has been reached. I'm glad he'll be able to make the debates on Friday and the VP debates can go on as planned. I'll have the popcorn ready. :D Jen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 I'll have the popcorn ready. :D Jen I'll bring the butter, if everyone can handle dairy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laylamcb Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 And I'll bring the sangria. It's gonna be painful, and we need to anesthetize fully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tibbyl Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 um, that was kinda the same concerns w/ the Democratic party's Presidential nominee and HIS cleric......... OK, so leave politicians out of the picture. Frankly, I find it disturbing that *any* rational adult would embrace belief in witchcraft in the manner that the preacher does. And even more disturbing that a sane adult would advocate ferreting out witches. But that is another thread. And perhaps I am woefully out of touch with what Americans (and others) are willing to believe. Sends a chill down my spine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 And I'll bring the sangria. It's gonna be painful, and we need to anesthetize fully. I'll have the Mike's. And I'll add chips and salsa to the mix. Yummmmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 I'll have the Mike's. And I'll add chips and salsa to the mix. Yummmmm. And guacamole... I'll bring that too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peek a Boo Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 Yep. Gotta love the way conservatives are against government intervention, except when it is intervention in private matters in people's lives, or when it means legislating their religious beliefs.Michelle T Yup. gotta love the way liberals are against government intervention, except when it is intervention in private matters in people's lives about healthcare policies. Yup. Gotta love the way liberals are against killing humans, except when they want to reserve that right to kill a human for convenience. I guess that "love" goes both ways. Thanks for giving me the opportunity to point that out ;) Whatever your views on the election, this whole thing seems like a very grim development for the conservative movement. On the financial side, we're getting ready to nationalize half the financial system. And for social conservatives, I've got to think issues such as pro-life policies and concerns over gay marriage are going to take a back seat to job losses, foreclosures, and people worrying about how they're going to put food on the table. i agree. both parties are putting forth very grim selections for this election. nationalizing half the financial system AND the healthcare industry are not appealing to me. But for ME, pro-life policies --aka not wanting people to have the right to kill another human for convenience-- are still at the top of the list. As they should IMHO- government has no business in these issues other than to preserve people's rights to decide for themselves. The only "concern" people need to have over gay marriage is whether or not they themselves wish to enter into one. i keep hearing that we should have the right to kill another human for convenience. I agree that gvt has no business in people's personal freedoms [which is why i'm against a forced healthcare policy idea] --unless that person decides to trample the rights of another, like, oh, killing another human for convenience. and honestly, I'm not really trying to push this into another abortion debate, but if you want to discuss a conservative's supposed lack of consistency in being intrusively pro-life [directly saving the life of a human] vs wanting little gvt interference w/ personal freedoms [that DON't result in the right to kill a human for convenience] i DID want to clarify the position. I kinda agree about the "concern" for gay marriage at the gvt level. The concern i have is mostly at the religious level, but thanks to freedom of religion people are free to choose whether to attend a church that does or does not perform/condone gay marriages. And that's a concern that's easy enough to handle --just switch churches or start your own. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laylamcb Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 And guacamole... I'll bring that too. Oh, honey, in that case, make mine a margarita. Ole!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peek a Boo Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 Really? Jeremiah Wright believed in and hunted witches? Could you please provide documentation? I am aware of the accusations of lack of patriotism. i didn't say he hunted witches. I said I agreed with you about it being Dismaying that a VP candidate apparently supports or cooperates with a cleric who holds primitive superstitious belief of a particularly virulent nature. This whole mess reads like a transplanted Carl Hiassen novel. many of us had the same sickening feeling after listening to some of Jeremiah Wright's "sermons" as we do over witch hunts. Same bigotry, different color of skin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peek a Boo Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 Didn't "do" anything, just asked a question she couldn't answer about when specifically Sen. McCain called for tighter regulation/oversight (as opposed to less) in the past 26 years. yeah,..... Palin should have answered "that's above my paygrade..." :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soph the vet Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 A bailout deal has been reached. Not according to minority leader John Beuhner in the CNN article I just read. I think the Dems just want to make it look like they reached a bipartisan deal before McCain and Obama meet with Bush at 4p.m. Eastern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 i didn't say he hunted witches. I said I agreed with you about it being Dismaying that a VP candidate apparently supports or cooperates with a cleric who holds primitive superstitious belief of a particularly virulent nature. This whole mess reads like a transplanted Carl Hiassen novel. many of us had the same sickening feeling after listening to some of Jeremiah Wright's "sermons" as we do over witch hunts. Same bigotry, different color of skin. Are you suggesting people who believe they have been victims of racism are merely superstitious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laylamcb Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 Oh, how I wish that there were some way to stop this madness. But I fear, ladies and gentlemen, that our representatives have already divested themselves of our money. Here's Froomkin's review of the major news sources' reviews (did you follow that? :D) of Bush's speech last night. Truly frightening. Off to pop another :chillpill: and wait to hear how deep they planning on reaching into my (and my kids') pockets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peek a Boo Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 Are you suggesting people who believe they have been victims of racism are merely superstitious? nope. I'm saying that people who preach primitively racist ideas of a particularly virulent nature are gut wrenchingly dismaying. two wrongs don't make a right. I'll go find some sermons of his if you want more clarification of what I'm talking about. eta-- i guess bringing God into it is pretty close to superstitious ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 Not according to minority leader John Beuhner in the CNN article I just read. I think the Dems just want to make it look like they reached a bipartisan deal before McCain and Obama meet with Bush at 4p.m. Eastern. Really? "I now expect we will, indeed, have a plan that can pass the House, pass the Senate, be signed by the president and bring a sense of certainty to this crisis that is sill roiling in the market," Sen. Bob Bennett, R-Utah, said as members of both parties emerged from a two-hour negotiating session. But then as you say: Boehner, R-Ohio, the minority leader, was huddling with McCain on the rescue. When asked whether the GOP presidential nominee could corral restive Republicans to support the plan, Boehner said, "Who knows?" This is why the presidential nominees should have stayed away from Washington. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 nope. I'm saying that people who preach primitively racist ideas of a particularly virulent nature are gut wrenchingly dismaying. two wrongs don't make a right. I'll go find some sermons of his if you want more clarification of what I'm talking about. I've heard the sermons in question. I'm just going to disagree with your characterization and leave it at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laylamcb Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 Are you suggesting people who believe they have been victims of racism are merely superstitious? I wouldn't presume to speak for Peek, but she was probably referring to some of Wright's quotes like that the government infected black men with syphilis in the Tuskegee Experiment or that the government invented the AIDS virus as a means of genocide. Most of us would agree that those sound pretty wacky (or hateful or virulent or whatever). Having said that, I think we all know that "the government" has done and will in the future do some pretty wacky and--I will just come right out and say it--evil things. But it didn't do those wacky and evil things. ETA: Oops! I see that y'all have already moved on from this discussion. Disregard above. :001_smile: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle T Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 A bailout deal has been reached. I'm glad he'll be able to make the debates on Friday and the VP debates can go on as planned. You know, maybe he has a sore throat or something. Actually, he's still trying to delay the debate, now saying that it's because there are still some details to wrap up. As if he's the one doing the wrapping. Michelle T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KidsHappen Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 And I'll bring the sangria. It's gonna be painful, and we need to anesthetize fully. Oh, I'm bringing sangria too. Maybe we can compare receipes. :cheers2: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 I wouldn't presume to speak for Peek, but she was probably referring to some of Wright's quotes like that the government infected black men with syphilis in the Tuskegee Experiment or that the government invented the AIDS virus as a means of genocide. Most of us would agree that those sound pretty wacky (or hateful or virulent or whatever). Having said that, I think we all know that "the government" has done and will in the future do some pretty wacky and--I will just come right out and say it--evil things. But it didn't do those wacky and evil things. I would absolutely agree that those are some wacky, conspiracy-theory ideas. I don't agree that they are racist or hateful. I think they are a reaction to racism inherent in the system. I once walked out of a Thanksgiving sermon in which the pastor was thanking God for causing sickness to wipe out a good portion of the Native American population before the arrival of the pilgrims allowing them space and so forth. I WAS LIVID but I didn't stop attending the church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laylamcb Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 I would absolutely agree that those are some wacky, conspiracy-theory ideas. I don't agree that they are racist or hateful. I think they are a reaction to racism inherent in the system. I once walked out of a Thanksgiving sermon in which the pastor was thanking God for causing sickness to wipe out a good portion of the Native American population before the arrival of the pilgrims allowing them space and so forth. I WAS LIVID but I didn't stop attending the church. Re the pilgrim comment: Good Lord! (No pun intended.) Yikes. :001_huh:That's...wow. I'd have walked out, too. I think I see what you're driving at, Mrs. Mungo. I don't have the same perspective on Rev. Wright's comments, but I do see your point. :001_smile: I found this to be a very interesting article on, as they termed it, the "chasm between the races" illuminated by Wright's comments. ETA: I just looked at the title of this thread again. What the--?! How did I get to Jeremiah Wright from here?! No, please--don't remind me. Just accept my apologies for inadvertent threadjacking. :001_smile: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katrina Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 Oh, I'm bringing sangria too. Maybe we can compare receipes. :cheers2: Fine...I guess my job will be to "sample" everyone else's drink and let you know whose taste better...(says the party mooch) Seriously, my dh is out of town till Sat and I wont have anyone to watch the debates with! :crying: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laylamcb Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 Fine...I guess my job will be to "sample" everyone else's drink and let you know whose taste better...(says the party mooch) Seriously, my dh is out of town till Sat and I wont have anyone to watch the debates with! :crying: Ah, but when you watch alone and you yell at the TV, there's no pesky critic there to remind you that you're full of it. So much more pleasant! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asta Posted September 25, 2008 Author Share Posted September 25, 2008 What the heck has happened to my thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmamainva Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 It looks as though, even though they did reach a bailout deal, that McCain still won't commit to the debate. Link: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/candidates_financial_meltdown This was as of 3:30 pm EST Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 It looks as though, even though they did reach a bailout deal, that McCain still won't commit to the debate. Link: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/candidates_financial_meltdown This was as of 3:30 pm EST This is my favourite bit: On Capitol Hill, Democratic and Republican negotiators emerged from a closed-door meeting to report an agreement in principle that they would present to the administration.Rogers said McCain didn't participate in that meeting, but was in talks with Republican leaders afterward. Conservative Republicans were among the holdouts, and there were indications they were waiting for McCain to make a move before they did. And McCain needs to be there because.... ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 And McCain needs to be there because.... ? Because the Republican holdouts might otherwise agree to a deal and THEN what excuse could he use not to enter the presidential debates? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LilyK Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 they are a reaction to racism inherent in the system. The above is a quote describing the Reverend Wright's hate speeches. Is our society so inherently racist? We currently have a Black man with negligible national leadership experience leading in the polls against a white man, a highly decorated war hero, with a lifetime of experience. Although I do not agree with Senator Obama's politics, I find it exciting and encouraging that our system can provide for a man of any color to be President of the United States. Yes, I am proud of my country when it comes to its embracing of all races and for legislating into the system, a means for success, no matter what your color. I speak as a woman of color. God Bless America, not, "God d@?! America." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmamainva Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 Because the Republican holdouts might otherwise agree to a deal and THEN what excuse could he use not to enter the presidential debates? :iagree: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 Because the Republican holdouts might otherwise agree to a deal and THEN what excuse could he use not to enter the presidential debates? If the latest Palin/Couric clip is any indication, he's going to have to do some major obstructing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 The above is a quote describing the Reverend Wright's hate speeches. Is our society so inherently racist? We currently have a Black man with negligible national leadership experience leading in the polls against a white man, a highly decorated war hero, with a lifetime of experience. Although I do not agree with Senator Obama's politics, I find it exciting and encouraging that our system can provide for a man of any color to be President of the United States. Yes, I am proud of my country when it comes to its embracing of all races and for legislating into the system, a means for success, no matter what your color. I speak as a woman of color. God Bless America, not, "God d@?! America." I absolutely find it encouraging that we have a person of color running for President. However, I find things like this discouraging: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26872774/ NEWBERG, Ore. - Students and school leaders at a small Christian university expressed outrage Wednesday at the discovery of a life-size cardboard effigy of Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama hanging from a tree on campus. Do I think the US has come a long way? Yes. Do I think we have a long way to go? Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KidsHappen Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 What the heck has happened to my thread? It meandered as old ladies thoughts often do. I am sure the snack and beverages will help get us back on track. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LilyK Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 NEWBERG, Ore. - Students and school leaders at a small Christian university expressed outrage Wednesday at the discovery of a life-size cardboard effigy of Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama hanging from a tree on campus That is dispicable, but it is not an example of racism inherent in the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 That is dispicable, but it is not an example of racism inherent in the system. http://academic.udayton.edu/health/07HumanRights/WCAR02.htm http://www.thepraxisproject.org/tools/White_Privilege.pdf http://www.socialworkers.org/diversity/InstitutionalRacism.pdf http://www.learntoquestion.com/seevak/groups/2002/sites/kozol/Seevak02/ineedtogoHOMEPAGE/homepage.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LilyK Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 Sorry, heard a scream and I had to discontinue, now I'm back. That is not an example of racism inherent in the system. It is ,indeed,an example of disgusting racism. When we are a society free from sin, we will probably be a society free from racism as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5kidsforME Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 Because the Republican holdouts might otherwise agree to a deal and THEN what excuse could he use not to enter the presidential debates? Isn't enough enough already? Really??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 Isn't enough enough already? Really??? Well, McCain had to "rush" to Washington, but didn't actually go until this morning. He interviewed with Couric last night, gave a speech this morning, and is scheduled with the three major broadcast networks tonight. He's not participating in any of the actual talks; as of Tuesday, he hadn't even read the Paulson plan. His campaign hasn't really suspended: campaign offices are still open, at least one of his representatives gave a political interview this morning, his ads are still running. I'm not sure how else any of this can be interpreted at this point. The debates seem to be the only things (potentially) off the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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