Overheard at the library...

[Colleen]

I'm so grateful for libraries. Especially really good libraries, like my local branch. When it comes to local libraries, America has Europe beat hands down, in my experience.

 

So I'm happy to be here at my library right now, done with a run and waiting to pick up three guys from soccer practices. But...remember what I've shared before about the prevalence of kids using library computers solely for social purposes? Grrrr!!! Drives me bananas to have one kid on one side of me, another on the other side, yakking back and forth about various My Space sites and girls' phone numbers. My "favorite" exchange of the hour:

 

(Kid One enters and speaks to Kid Two): Hey, man, are you here again? You're, like, at the library ALL the time. Do you, like, love books or somethin'?"

 

Kid Two: What the heck? I don't come here for the books, man!

 

Should I offer this to the library director as the new catch phrase? "The library! It's not about the books!"

 

Oy vey!

[dirty ethel rackham]

I can relate. Our library (supposedly #1 in the nation) has so many extras, I wonder how many people actually read the books, LOL!

[Doran]

Here's a T-shirt idea for you:

 

Leggo my Library!

 

 

Sorry for the distraction, but hey, at least they're on computers instead of street corners. :glare:

 

(Welcome back, by the way.)

[Danestress]

Stay for the smoking hot chicks!"

[Zelda]

:smilielol5:

 

How about:

 

The Public Library. Forget about the books. Just pretend like they're not even here.

[Camy-7 boybarians 1 lady]

Welcome back, Colleen! Speaking of libraries, I don't even want to share what goes on at ours...put it this way, we are the "Little San Francisco" of the Midwest. Our library is a pick-up joint for some alternative lifestyles.

 

Love,

 

Camy

[mazakaal]

When it comes to local libraries, America has Europe beat hands down, in my experience.

 

 

:iagree: I've got to agree with you there. I had expected that our library was bad because we live in a rural area. I was so surprised to see the library in Exeter, a small city, was not much better than our library. Sad.

[Deidre in GA]

though i deplore misuse of resources, i think it's important to remember that libraries are NOT just about books; they are about access to information. in the modern age computers and internet access are essentials. when i see every terminal in use at my local libraries (i use two different county systems) i remind myself that not everyone can afford a computer or high speed internet access and/or may not have a quiet home environment in which to study/work.

[Lizzie in Ma]

Perhaps a new strategy for fundraising, "The Library, It's Not About the Books Anymore so Come on In!"

 

Which reminds me, I have to renew ours. :)

[LibraryLover]

though i deplore misuse of resources, i think it's important to remember that libraries are NOT just about books;

 

 

So true!!

[Tracy in Ky]

Recently at the library I was apologizing to the librarian for needing so much help. She replied that it was nice to actually help someone with books!!! :blink:

 

Sad, isn't it? And a little scary.

[TeacherZee]

:iagree: I've got to agree with you there. I had expected that our library was bad because we live in a rural area. I was so surprised to see the library in Exeter, a small city, was not much better than our library. Sad.

 

I agree about the UK libraries. I wasn't terribly impressed either. However my library here in Sweden is fantastic. Very small and rural and most of the titles they carry are geared toward their "normal" clients who are mainly elderly and to the school kids since the library is also the school library (told you small). They have a great selection of books on CD. But they are great about doing inter library loans for me from the bigger libraries and the university libraries and they always renew the books for me if I need. All I have to do is call them up. They know who I am so I never have to go through a whole long process when I want something. They have even bought in some books for me if they couldn't get them fast enough.

[PiCO]

I have a great library. They have separate computer areas for teens and adults. And a separate set of reasearch computers. Very helpful for people without computers at home.

[Nestof3]

It's equally annoying when there are kids wandering around the children's section with no clue what to check out while their parents are chatting on the internet. As soon as the computer is available in the children's section, the other kids rush to take their places.

 

Those kids never do get any books.

 

Now, I'm not opposed to computers and such, but it would be nice to see families actually getting books together.

[mazakaal]

However my library here in Sweden is fantastic. Very small and rural and most of the titles they carry are geared toward their "normal" clients who are mainly elderly and to the school kids since the library is also the school library (told you small). They have a great selection of books on CD. But they are great about doing inter library loans for me from the bigger libraries and the university libraries and they always renew the books for me if I need. All I have to do is call them up. They know who I am so I never have to go through a whole long process when I want something. They have even bought in some books for me if they couldn't get them fast enough.

 

Can I move to Sweden!?:001_smile:

[TeacherZee]

Can I move to Sweden!?:001_smile:

 

Sure come on over. :D

 

You can't homeschool though. Against the law. I'm working on it though;)

[Deidre in GA]

It's equally annoying when there are kids wandering around the children's section with no clue what to check out while their parents are chatting on the internet. As soon as the computer is available in the children's section, the other kids rush to take their places.

 

Those kids never do get any books.

 

Now, I'm not opposed to computers and such, but it would be nice to see families actually getting books together.

 

maybe those parents are job hunting. or studying. unless you're reading the screens over their shoulders, i would think it's really harsh to make such a judgment about someone's else's motives or needs. maybe that mom, tired from a day's work and having just picked up her kids from daycare, needed to check her email at the library because she doesn't have a computer or internet access at home. and maybe she did get a few books with her child when your eyes stopped watching her.

[Colleen]

though i deplore misuse of resources, i think it's important to remember that libraries are NOT just about books; they are about access to information. in the modern age computers and internet access are essentials. when i see every terminal in use at my local libraries (i use two different county systems) i remind myself that not everyone can afford a computer or high speed internet access and/or may not have a quiet home environment in which to study/work.

 

I don't disagree that libraries are NOT just about books, but the reality is that there are limited dollars available and books are, imo, the very essence of the library system. I don't feel my system needs to purchase a dozen copies of the latest Coldplay CD the moment it's released. I don't believe our library needs to be a Blockbuster. And I do believe kids hanging out on MySpace, etc is a misuse of resources.

[mazakaal]

You can't homeschool though. Against the law. I'm working on it though;)

 

 

Yikes!

 

Do you afterschool? Are you American or Swedish? Are you trying to fight in the court system?

[Nestof3]

maybe those parents are job hunting. or studying. unless you're reading the screens over their shoulders, i would think it's really harsh to make such a judgment about someone's else's motives or needs. maybe that mom, tired from a day's work and having just picked up her kids from daycare, needed to check her email at the library because she doesn't have a computer or internet access at home. and maybe she did get a few books with her child when your eyes stopped watching her.

 

Yeah -- maybe.

 

The internet computers are right next to the children's section, and yes, I do see the screens -- probably so parents can keep their eye on their children while on the computer. The card catalog computers, however, are not within range of the children's section, so you cannot look up a book while your young ones are looking in the children's section, because you couldn't keep an eye on them then.

 

They're "my space" and chat room websites -- oh, and video games. Their kids are also on the computers, and no -- the ones I'm speaking of don't get books for their kids. We are in the library twice a week on average, so I see regulars quite often.

[Nestof3]

Yes, regarding countries with great social service programs, they often outlaw homeschooling. There seems to be a direct proportion with how much the gov't gives vs how much they take. That's why I like Kathleen in VA's signature quote.

[TeacherZee]

Yikes!

 

Do you afterschool? Are you American or Swedish? Are you trying to fight in the court system?

 

I don't have kids. I came here because I self educate through The Well Educated Mind. And I am studying to be a teacher. I found I got such great ideas that I want to use with my kids that I stayed. I lurked for the longest time but then someone said something that I just had to reply to and that is as they say history :blush:

 

I am American but I have lived in Europe most of my life. I do want to homeschool any future children because I feel that the schools failed me. Which is also one of the reasons I want to be a teacher (Loooooong story, wont bore everyone).

 

My current method of trying to change the system here is probably incredibly passive since I don't have any kids of my own, but I do mention when someone brings up "how crazy the homeschoolers are and how isolated the kids are from different world views" that this hasn't been my experience of children who are homeschooled in the states. Here in Sweden we recently did have a couple of "cases" of children from a pretty secretive religious group who weren't going to school because the parents wanted to keep them separated from the general population so unfortunately this is the view of most here. That people who want to homeschool are lunatic isolationists who don't want their children to see the world or learn about other world views AT ALL.

 

I don't think fighting it through the courts would work here because the law is pretty straight forward (we don't rely on precedent to the same degree here) but rahter there is a need to change the views of what homeschooling is and that children can still get a good understanding of democratic values (which is the governments main reason to not allow homeschooling, of course it is a bit more involved than that but I think I have hijaked this thread enough sorry)

[mazakaal]

Interesting story. Thanks for sharing. :001_smile:

[lovemyboys]

though i deplore misuse of resources, i think it's important to remember that libraries are NOT just about books; they are about access to information. in the modern age computers and internet access are essentials. when i see every terminal in use at my local libraries (i use two different county systems) i remind myself that not everyone can afford a computer or high speed internet access and/or may not have a quiet home environment in which to study/work.

 

 

I feel the same way. For all ages.

 

But I am grateful that several of the libraries we've used have been able to have space set aside for a "teen zone" so the social aspects aren't too distracting. :001_smile:

[beansprouts]

Sorry for the distraction, but hey, at least they're on computers instead of street corners. :glare:

 

 

And that would be better how?

[Haiku]

 

You can't homeschool though. Against the law. I'm working on it though;)

 

I emailed a friend of mine in Sweden to ask about homeschooling, and this is what he said:

 

"Nah, misinformation. Not very widely practised but indeed legal. I don't follow these things too closely seems as if the present government are adjusting the school law and by this possibly restricting homeschooling. There was some kind of media brouhaha this past spring with the ultrareligious Maranata congregation who are homeschoolers and believe in hitting their children, do not agree with abortion and are creationist. While ordinary folks, good homeschoolers, of course see this adjustment of the law as a threat, I think it should indeed be restricted or rather controlled to make sure kids get the same level of education. Homeschooling cannot be forbidden or made illegal in Sweden, that would go against the EU convention which we by law must follow."

 

I, of course, don't know the answer as I don't live in Sweden (I have only visited, 5 times, lucky me!!).

 

Tara

[beansprouts]

There was some kind of media brouhaha this past spring with the ultrareligious Maranata congregation who are homeschoolers and believe in hitting their children, do not agree with abortion and are creationist. While ordinary folks, good homeschoolers, of course see this adjustment of the law as a threat, I think it should indeed be restricted or rather controlled to make sure kids get the same level of education.

 

Can you elaborate on this "brouhaha" with the Christian family that spanks their kids? Is your friend saying that people of faith should not homeschool, should not spank, or should not be allowed to teach their faith?

[TeacherZee]

I emailed a friend of mine in Sweden to ask about homeschooling, and this is what he said:

 

"Nah, misinformation. Not very widely practised but indeed legal. I don't follow these things too closely seems as if the present government are adjusting the school law and by this possibly restricting homeschooling. There was some kind of media brouhaha this past spring with the ultrareligious Maranata congregation who are homeschoolers and believe in hitting their children, do not agree with abortion and are creationist. While ordinary folks, good homeschoolers, of course see this adjustment of the law as a threat, I think it should indeed be restricted or rather controlled to make sure kids get the same level of education. Homeschooling cannot be forbidden or made illegal in Sweden, that would go against the EU convention which we by law must follow."

 

I, of course, don't know the answer as I don't live in Sweden (I have only visited, 5 times, lucky me!!).

 

Tara

 

The whoha over the spring pretty much made it illegal. It isn't completely illegal BUT with what happened during the spring made it so that you need medical reasons to homeschool. I could of course be wrong but my understanding of the law is that you have to jump through an enormous amount of hoops to homeschool, and if you want to homeschool you can only do so for short periods of time. The law is written so that it should only be done for medical reasons.

 

I know that you can't homeschool in Germany so I don't see what EU laws it would be going against, because then Germany would be violating the same law. :001_smile:

[Haiku]

Can you elaborate on this "brouhaha" with the Christian family that spanks their kids? Is your friend saying that people of faith should not homeschool, should not spank, or should not be allowed to teach their faith?

 

Nope, can't elaborate, as I know nothing about it. Nor can I speculate on what my friend's opinions are on the matters you asked about. I merely copied and pasted his reply to my question of, "I heard today that homeschooling is illegal in Sweden. What's up with that?"

 

Tara

[TeacherZee]

Okay your friend is right and I was wrong. I stand corrected. I looked into it a bit more

 

The brouha was regarding a religious organisation (I dislike the word sect) that refused to show the inspectors the materials that were used and they were also using the churches facilities and using others than the parents to teach making it an independent school which they did not have permission for. I would link to the articles I found but they are in Swedish. The local council that was critizised in the report have decided that they will no longer grant exemptions based on religious or ideological grounds and the current government is looking to change the law so that you cannot homeschool on religious or ideological grounds merely on medical.

 

I can admit that I am wrong, and it makes me very happy that I am. Now if I can only find myself a man so I can start having babies:D

[TeacherZee]

Can you elaborate on this "brouhaha" with the Christian family that spanks their kids? Is your friend saying that people of faith should not homeschool, should not spank, or should not be allowed to teach their faith?

 

Now this one I do know. Spanking a child is against the law in Sweden according to Föräldrabalken 6 chapter 1 §.

 

However the problem in this case was actually that they weren't home educating they were hiring it out to others in the parish. It looks like the law in this respect is similar to my understanding of the law in NC. That it must be the parent or guardian who teaches the child.

 

[Haiku]

I can admit that I am wrong, and it makes me very happy that I am. Now if I can only find myself a man so I can start having babies:D

 

If you have three boys I think you should call them Kalle, Lasse, and Jocke. Those are my favorite Swedish names. Although I like Lennart and Martin quite a bit too. ;)

 

Tara

[TeacherZee]

If you have three boys I think you should call them Kalle, Lasse, and Jocke. Those are my favorite Swedish names. Although I like Lennart and Martin quite a bit too. ;)

 

Tara

 

If I ever have any kids they are going to have names that work in both Swedish and English so I guess Karl would work and you can call him Kalle;)

[beansprouts]

Now this one I do know. Spanking a child is against the law in Sweden according to Föräldrabalken 6 chapter 1 §.

 

However the problem in this case was actually that they weren't home educating they were hiring it out to others in the parish. It looks like the law in this respect is similar to my understanding of the law in NC. That it must be the parent or guardian who teaches the child.

 

 

 

Understood. Thank you :001_smile:

[Haiku]

I guess Karl would work and you can call him Kalle;)

 

Awww, thanks! One of my bestest friends ever is Karl Oskar, called Kalle.

 

I agree that Joakim is a train wreck for Americans to pronounce.

 

Tara

 

ETA: I guess I should have said "tack sa mycket!"

[PariSarah]

though i deplore misuse of resources, i think it's important to remember that libraries are NOT just about books; they are about access to information. in the modern age computers and internet access are essentials. when i see every terminal in use at my local libraries (i use two different county systems) i remind myself that not everyone can afford a computer or high speed internet access and/or may not have a quiet home environment in which to study/work.

 

I don't usually think of it that way. Worth remembering. Computer literacy is becoming as necessary as actual literacy these days. And MySpace is the computer equivalent of Danielle Steel, so if you're going to have the one, . . .

 

Here at school, some computer clusters have rules posted such that people waiting to do schoolwork can ask the thumb-twiddlers to leave, when there's a line. So, if you're just hanging out on facebook, that's your business. But if there's a line of people waiting to do their homework, you have to give way to them. The idea is that the computers are there for people to work on. But if nobody's actually needing them to work at the moment, no reason they can't be used for play. I don't see why a public library shouldn't have the same attitude towards its computers.

[TeacherZee]

Awww, thanks! One of my bestest friends ever is Karl Oskar, called Kalle.

 

I agree that Joakim is a train wreck for Americans to pronounce.

 

Tara

 

ETA: I guess I should have said "tack sa mycket!"

 

Yeah that one ain't easy;)

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I emailed a friend of mine in Sweden to ask about homeschooling, and this is what he said:

 

"Nah, misinformation. Not very widely practised but indeed legal. I don't follow these things too closely seems as if the present government are adjusting the school law and by this possibly restricting homeschooling. There was some kind of media brouhaha this past spring with the ultrareligious Maranata congregation who are homeschoolers and believe in hitting their children, do not agree with abortion and are creationist. While ordinary folks, good homeschoolers, of course see this adjustment of the law as a threat, I think it should indeed be restricted or rather controlled to make sure kids get the same level of education. Homeschooling cannot be forbidden or made illegal in Sweden, that would go against the EU convention which we by law must follow."

 

I, of course, don't know the answer as I don't live in Sweden (I have only visited, 5 times, lucky me!!).

 

Tara

 

To disagree with your friend on one point. Germany has had no problem with keeping homeschooling de facto illegal, despite its membership in the EU. Rather than making it specifically illegal, it must be approved. And it simply never is (unless you are a teen aged member of a pop band, but that is another story).

Appeals to the European Human Rights Court have not yet been successful. I'm hoping that a recent appeal on the ground of employment discrimination for European workers might have a better result eventually.

[Night Elf]

though i deplore misuse of resources, i think it's important to remember that libraries are NOT just about books; they are about access to information.

 

True, but I do wish they'd have separate rooms for the computers. My local library has the computers right near the shelves and the chairs/sofas. Oh and the kids section has 8 computers as well, front and center with the books as a background. I truly miss the days of a quiet library. I think the computers and printers should be in a separate room, even if walled off by large glass windows.

 

I have such fond memories of spending hours in the library with my mom when I was a child. Presently, I can't remember the last time I sat in the library. I run in, grab what I need, and run out. It is no longer a place to enjoy. My kids don't understand why I loved the library so much, and I don't think they are ever going to get it. The library as I knew it is gone forever. They don't like going but prefer I just grab of bunch of random books to put in the basket that they may or may not look at.

[camibami]

Ummm...Colleen...you are waiting to pick your kids up from soccer, waiting at the library, using the computer?

 

Because, well, if you are *there*, at the library, using the computer, to come *here*, then, well....

 

;)

[beansprouts]

Ummm...Colleen...you are waiting to pick your kids up from soccer, waiting at the library, using the computer?

 

Because, well, if you are *there*, at the library, using the computer, to come *here*, then, well....

 

;)

 

 

*ahem* Yes, it does appear that she is:

 

So I'm happy to be here at my library right now, done with a run and waiting to pick up three guys from soccer practices. But...remember what I've shared before about the prevalence of kids using library computers solely for social purposes?

 

 

:lol:

[LibrarianMom]

I truly miss the days of a quiet library. I think the computers and printers should be in a separate room, even if walled off by large glass windows.

 

There are some libraries that have a set up like you describe; however, many libraries are moving away from desktop computers to just laptops.

 

I have such fond memories of spending hours in the library with my mom when I was a child. Presently, I can't remember the last time I sat in the library. I run in, grab what I need, and run out. It is no longer a place to enjoy. My kids don't understand why I loved the library so much, and I don't think they are ever going to get it. The library as I knew it is gone forever.

 

The library as you knew it is gone forever. Just as the world has changed phenomenally in the last twenty years, libraries have changed phenomenally and will continue to change in order to provide services to a changing and diverse society. If your local library never changed, it would soon be no more.

[Night Elf]

The library as you knew it is gone forever. Just as the world has changed phenomenally in the last twenty years, libraries have changed phenomenally and will continue to change in order to provide services to a changing and diverse society. If your local library never changed, it would soon be no more.

 

Please don't get your knickers in a knot. Your post sounds very defensive, especially as you are a librarian. I'm not bemoaning change. I love computers. All 5 of us in my family have computers, 4 of us with laptops. All I'm saying is that I have fond memories of being in my library as a child. We had floor to ceiling stacks filled with books. There were big comfy chairs, sofas and tables in every nook and cranny. It was a very hushed, relaxed environment. Kids who were noisy were shushed by librarians and even other parents. It was a place to go to get away from noisy busy fast world. I don't see why that part has to change. People don't even whisper in my library. Many are on their cell phones. The employees are just as loud.

 

Yes I'm sure there are still lovely libraries around. But the 3 that I'm familiar with near me are not quiet havens of knowledge and learning. I disagree with the way the libraries near me are designed with the computers in the middle and the books are not the focus. I'm not a fussy old woman running around the library shushing people. I don't complain to anyone. I share my fond memories with my children, use the library as infrequently as possible, and spend lots of money on buying books to bring into my own home. Problem resolved.

 

Oh, and my dream library is like the one in the movie Matilda. I grew up near a library like that. The libraries I have around me have no cozy bookish quality. They are cold with hard chairs, metal bookshelves and computers everywhere. Oh well!

[Nestof3]

All I'm saying is that I have fond memories of being in my library as a child. We had floor to ceiling stacks filled with books. There were big comfy chairs, sofas and tables in every nook and cranny. It was a very hushed, relaxed environment. Kids who were noisy were shushed by librarians and even other parents. It was a place to go to get away from noisy busy fast world.

 

I totally agree with you. I was always dropped off at the library, but it was a small one (the one I go to now was not opened yet). I was usually dropped off in order to use the reference materials to write a school paper, but I distinctly remember thinking the library was like a sanctuary for me. I would also pick up books to read there. There was just something about the solitude of the whole thing. About being surrounded by books and people who appreciated them.

 

I will even be so bold as to say that though I love how much my computer benefits me in obtaining information, I am not an entertainment-absorbed person. I do think that so many young and old have lost or never developed an enjoyment of books because they cannot get away from a screen long enough. I too hate to see this happening in a library as well. It just goes along with so many of our other discussions on this forum about why children in America are not excelling academically.

 

My aunt is the head librarian in a Virginia library. She agrees totally about the demise of books in place of computer entertainment in a library. It's not that either of us has anything against computers or even computers in a library, it's that books are starting to take backstage.

 

Thankfully, my library's staff literally orders 99 percent of what I ask them to. I am on a mission to keep quality books in the library! If the books don't get checked out, they get taken off the shelf.

[Haiku]

I just recently resigned my 8-hours-a-week-shelving-books-at-the-local-library job.

 

The staff would talk about, and patrons would complain about, the kids and teens hanging out at the library to use the computers. They shouted back and forth to each other, used foul language, and generally made the library an unwelcome place for people who actually want to read and research. Kids who would never dream of actually reading a book would run around the library aimlessly, waiting for a computer to open up.

 

I really, really miss libraries being havens of quiet and book-loving. The director of our library system is all about giving the libraries more and more and more and more computers. The libraries are turning into internet cafes. Nothing against internet cafes, but that's the not environment I want at the library.

 

Tara

[Nestof3]

I really, really miss libraries being havens of quiet and book-loving. The director of our library system is all about giving the libraries more and more and more and more computers. The libraries are turning into internet cafes. Nothing against internet cafes, but that's the not environment I want at the library.

 

 

I agree!

[Jenny in Florida]

maybe those parents are job hunting. or studying. unless you're reading the screens over their shoulders, i would think it's really harsh to make such a judgment about someone's else's motives or needs. maybe that mom, tired from a day's work and having just picked up her kids from daycare, needed to check her email at the library because she doesn't have a computer or internet access at home. and maybe she did get a few books with her child when your eyes stopped watching her.

 

I'm sure all of that is frequently true. However, I don't see why any of that makes it okay for her kids to be running around unsupervised and making it difficult for those of us who might have children who actually want to check out or read a book to do so in relative peace.

[Mamagistra]

I really, really miss libraries being havens of quiet and book-loving. The director of our library system is all about giving the libraries more and more and more and more computers. The libraries are turning into internet cafes. Nothing against internet cafes, but that's the not environment I want at the library.

 

Amen, sista! I've fussed here before about our county slashing the library's book budget by nearly 70%. Well, the technology budget was also victimized...perhaps some of the local screens will be black for a while. :tongue_smilie: Sigh. I doubt it...

[WTMindy]

 

I don't disagree that libraries are NOT just about books, but the reality is that there are limited dollars available and books are, imo, the very essence of the library system. I don't feel my system needs to purchase a dozen copies of the latest Coldplay CD the moment it's released. I don't believe our library needs to be a Blockbuster. And I do believe kids hanging out on MySpace, etc is a misuse of resources.

 

This is my pet peave too! I wish our library wouldn't buy any non-educational movies. People can rent those if they want to watch them!!

[Doran]

And that would be better how?

 

Let's compare:

 

Computer = access to inappropriate images

Street corner = access to inappropriate images

 

Computer = violent interactions possible

Street corner = violent interactions possible

 

Computer = lots of drug advertisements

Street corner = lots of drug advertisements

 

Computer = mindless waste of time

Street corener = mindless waste of time

 

Computer = indoors

Street corner = outdoors

 

 

Wow. I guess I should get off of here and go stand on a street corner! :D

 

 

 

 

(P.S. -- or I can HOPE the library computers have better filters than the nearby street corners!)