For those that have seen seniors with cascading health problems....

[Okra]

Okay ladies, 

 

I have an elderly family member who has health problems.  She has, over several years become more and more sedentary.  This siting has led to physical as well as mental decline. She was recently in the hospital for a week, and just seems weak.

 

I can see many different situations that can happen from here........break a hip.......decline mentally.......blood clots......  Pretty much the scenarios I am imagining all involve slowly declining with cascading health problems.

 

Is this how it typically goes?  When seniors get to this point how often do they just slowly lose their quality of life?  

[Carol in Cal.]

My grandmother was like this, kind of one thing after another, seemed to be withdrawing, but then after about a year of deterioration she rallied, got better, and returned to decent health.  She lived for a long time after that, mostly pretty well.  So you never know.

[Guest]

It's been a downhill slide for three family members of mine. And through no fault of their own. Once you're immobilized or suffer severe infections it can be extremely difficult to heal enough to improve your mobility, strength, and mental acuity. And these things often compound one another.

Edited January 26, 2016 by Arctic Mama

[Carrie12345]

My grandmother has had many ups and downs. An eye injury from long ago continues to have an impact.  My grandfather's death began a deep depression.  Hip surgery was so traumatic, this woman kept trying to escape the hospital and the rehab. Ouch!  But, despite years of avoiding even a senior center for special events, living in a care center has given her a routine and friends, which was a huge boost.  After fighting against eye surgery for as long as I can remember, she's finally had it done, and her improved vision has done wonders.

 

She's still living with dementia, and it's traumatic.  Her mind and body aren't going to go back to what they were.  But constant rapid decline isn't an automatic given.  Ups are possible.  Ups are gifts.

[creekland]

When seniors get to this point how often do they just slowly lose their quality of life?  

 

Staying active seems to be the key.  I know seniors who are still out doing things - going for walks, attending plays, playing games with others - and even though many/all of these have health issues they're dealing with, their quality of life seems quite good even into their 90s.

 

However, once they quit being active due to injury/fall or mental decline, that's when quality of life seems to truly go down whether slowly or quickly.  It can happen pretty young for some people.

 

I've seen enough to know I have no plans to get to that decline stage... it can be quite horrid IME.  I've seen some who have outright asked, "Why don't they let me die?"  It's sad.  We're kinder to our pets.

 

But it's not an age really.  It depends upon what's going on in their lives.  Aches/pains/health issues?  Those will come to all in differing levels.  Quality of life?  Stay as active as you can - or encourage it in others.  It gives that something special I think we all need to truly survive.

[G5052]

Staying active seems to be the key.  I know seniors who are still out doing things - going for walks, attending plays, playing games with others - and even though many/all of these have health issues they're dealing with, their quality of life seems quite good even into their 90s.

 

However, once they quit being active due to injury/fall or mental decline, that's when quality of life seems to truly go down whether slowly or quickly.  It can happen pretty young for some people.

 

I've seen enough to know I have no plans to get to that decline stage... it can be quite horrid IME.  I've seen some who have outright asked, "Why don't they let me die?"  It's sad.  We're kinder to our pets.

 

But it's not an age really.  It depends upon what's going on in their lives.  Aches/pains/health issues?  Those will come to all in differing levels.  Quality of life?  Stay as active as you can - or encourage it in others.  It gives that something special I think we all need to truly survive.

 

Some people have set-backs that they can't overcome. But others indeed are able to remain active and will keep their health for some time. Being active and engaged with other people is very, very important.

 

However, DH has an aunt who is in a wheelchair because of an injury and lives in a home. But she is quite a correspondent and is involved in so many activities there. We full expect her to live well into her 90's. So for her at least, the mobility issues haven't shortened her life (she's 88). The key is everything else in her life though.

[creekland]

Active to me doesn't have to be walks, etc.  I know some who are active in wheelchairs, including one friend who had had polio in her youth and couldn't walk afterward, but she never let it stop her from being active.  Perhaps involved would have been a better wording choice in hindsight.

[Tammyla]

I think a lot of it depends on the individual person, their care and support systems.  

 

Sitting doesn't have to exclude them from staying active or exercise.  I think building their support system and finding the things they enjoy and can do to be tremendously encouraging and helpful. 

 

Research and find the senior support(s) available in your/her area.  Many elderly who are suffering from injuries or mental decline need help finding help.

[Reefgazer]

I see this a lot in the over-85 set.  I will add that I have seen, in my extended family and more than once, sedentariness and other lifestyle issues brought on by medication that causes muscle aches and tiredness, which in turn causes the person to sit even more, making their original condition worse off.  I've also seen elderly people over-medicated, which leads to symptoms of other diseases a doctor deems needs a medical treatment, which gets said elderly person into a vicious cycle of sedentariness and medications.  Check the meds.  Tell elderly person to tell doc to take them off meds unless it's an immediate life-death reason they must be on them.

Okay ladies, 

 

I have an elderly family member who has health problems.  She has, over several years become more and more sedentary.  This siting has led to physical as well as mental decline. She was recently in the hospital for a week, and just seems weak.

 

I can see many different situations that can happen from here........break a hip.......decline mentally.......blood clots......  Pretty much the scenarios I am imagining all involve slowly declining with cascading health problems.

 

Is this how it typically goes?  When seniors get to this point how often do they just slowly lose their quality of life?  

 

Edited January 26, 2016 by reefgazer

[goldberry]

I see this a lot in the over-85 set.  I will add that I have seen, in my extended family and more than once, sedentariness and other lifestyle issues brought on by medication that causes muscle aches and tiredness, which in turn causes the person to sit even more, making their original condition worse off.  I've also seen elderly people over-medicated, which leads to symptoms of other diseases a doctor deems needs a medical treatment, which gets said elderly person into a vicious cycle of sedentariness and medications.  Check the meds.  Tell elderly person to tell doc to take them off meds unless it's an immediate life-death reason they must be on them.

 

Medication can be huge.  By the time people get into their 80s, often they are taking a ton of medication prescribed by different specialists.  They all act like they are the only ones prescribing.  Most are not that careful about cross-checking for interactions.  Pharmaceutical Dementia is a real thing.

 

On the other hand, trying to convince an older person sometimes that they *may* not need all that medication can be difficult.

[creekland]

On the other hand, trying to convince an older person sometimes that they *may* not need all that medication can be difficult.

 

Definitely true.  I'm pretty sure my mom could open her own pharmacy of sorts.  We tried to count the number of meds (not all prescription, but many were) we saw in her cupboard once and were unsuccessful as it would have taken more time than we had.  Suffice it to say it was across the whole bottom shelf, going in for a little bit and some on the middle shelf above it.  Then there were the things she had in her bathroom on the counter.  It's a good thing she knows what she's supposed to take and/or use on her skin as there's no way I'd be able to "take over" for her.  I have often wondered if she needs it all though.  But since I'm more on the anti-med side of the spectrum, I stay quiet.  I'm not at the far end of that spectrum, but still...

 

Nonetheless, she stays active and seems happy, so I don't regret staying quiet.  It's her choice/life.

[Reefgazer]

I have an uncle who just died this past year as a result of this.  He was put on a medication that caused this, admitted to a nursing home for dementia, and contracted pneumonia from a fellow patient and died.  He was taken off the offending med at the nursing home by the nursing home doc who said he didn't need it, but it was too late - he was already in the home and had caught pneumonia.

Medication can be huge.  By the time people get into their 80s, often they are taking a ton of medication prescribed by different specialists.  They all act like they are the only ones prescribing.  Most are not that careful about cross-checking for interactions.  Pharmaceutical Dementia is a real thing.

 

On the other hand, trying to convince an older person sometimes that they *may* not need all that medication can be difficult.

 

[FaithManor]

My dad has stage 4 lung cancer and I am watching my mom's health, mental prowess, and skills go rught down the tubes because she will not do any self care nor will she admit he needs to be in a facility. Due to the extreme amount of just sitting all day, withdrawing completely from life. I do not expect her to outlive my father by much despite currently not suffering from anything remotely life threatening. Her own mother died by 65 directly related to total uninvolvement in living.

 

It is teaching me a lot about balance and self care.

[G5052]

My dad has stage 4 lung cancer and I am watching my mom's health, mental prowess, and skills go rught down the tubes because she will not do any self care nor will she admit he needs to be in a facility. Due to the extreme amount of just sitting all day, withdrawing completely from life. I do not expect her to outlive my father by much despite currently not suffering from anything remotely life threatening. Her own mother died by 65 directly related to total uninvolvement in living.

 

It is teaching me a lot about balance and self care.

 

:grouphug:

[J-rap]

I think there are three things that are in favor of postponing that decline as long as possible:  1) Staying active,  2)  Good genes,  3)  A good companion.

 

Oh, and a positive attitude.

 

I've seen this firsthand with my parents.  They are 88, but still very active.  Even on days that they probably don't feel like it, they are active.  Or on days that they don't feel like it, their partner pushes them to be active.  Or on days that they can't be active, their partner is there to nurse them and get them back on their feet again.   They happened to be blessed with pretty good health, and a very positive attitude.  I think one of them tends to be more positive than the other actually, but it seems to carry over.  :)

 

[G5052]

I think there are three things that are in favor of postponing that decline as long as possible:  1) Staying active,  2)  Good genes,  3)  A good companion.

 

Oh, and a positive attitude.

 

I've seen this firsthand with my parents.  They are 88, but still very active.  Even on days that they probably don't feel like it, they are active.  Or on days that they don't feel like it, their partner pushes them to be active.  Or on days that they can't be active, their partner is there to nurse them and get them back on their feet again.   They happened to be blessed with pretty good health, and a very positive attitude.  I think one of them tends to be more positive than the other actually, but it seems to carry over.   :)

 

Yesterday I talked to my 80-ish aunt who was excited about FINALLY being able to serve on a jury. Apparently she always got off or wasn't chosen.

 

That's how I want to be!

 

Her husband is very active and positive, and he's kept her going through three knee replacements. They travel a lot too.

[Laura Corin]

Good genes and physical activity can be enough. My mum is a physically very healthy 91 year old. She's on only three medications. She's a loner who has had very sparing social contact for 30 years.

 

She is slowly getting back her strength after three months inactive in hospital. She lost muscle and balance so fast when she was sitting around all day.

[J-rap]

 And that list was for other people--people that he thought depended on him. Totally different outlook on life!

 

That's a good point...  Believing that others depend on you must be a great motivation.  My own (88-year-old) parents keep helping to launch their many grandchildren.  For the past 10 years or so, they have had a grandchild living with them pretty consistently (usually right after they graduate from college) while they look for work and try to get their feet on the ground, for anytime between 6 months to 2 years each time.  (They happen to live in a big metro area so it's a great launching point!)  My dd is living with them now.  :)

 

They also still deliver meals-on-wheels.  

[sheryl]

Yes, that's a good generalization.

 

That's why it's so very important for them to be active physically, mentally.  Now they'll get a good bit of that socially.  It can't be pushed but encouraged.  They have to "want" to make changes for the better.  Can family/friends rotate on a schedule to keep her active/social? 

[Okra]

Thanks for all the replies.  Yes, I am so aware of staying active, mentally and physically.  It is all about keeping quality of life for as long as you can.  But, sometimes I feel like it is a one-person show trying to keep her alive, and it's all me. I have worked to get her on antidepressants, tried to get her out of the house, tried to encourage her, tried to push her with words. I try to get her to do basic cleaning around the house.  But, it is not working.  She is in bed or on the sofa for almost all the day.  She says that "I don't understand how she feels.  She does not have the energy to get up and go any place or unload the dishwasher."   I don't have the right words to get her to be even a little active, I have tried all which ways.  I have even gotten on the phone and called her friends (who are lovely ladies and don't mind me calling) But, ultimately, you can't make someone do something they don't want to do.

 

While it may be true that I don't understand exactly how she feels, I do KNOW what happens to seniors when they stop, "doing".  This episode in the hospital did not surprise me.  The problem is that I don't see any change now that she is home, and I can see a future fraught with problems.  

 

So, we will just deal with whatever happens in life, and I will continue to try to encourage her and help her when things get worse.  :(  :(  :(   :(

 

 

 

[FaithManor]

Thanks for all the replies.  Yes, I am so aware of staying active, mentally and physically.  It is all about keeping quality of life for as long as you can.  But, sometimes I feel like it is a one-person show trying to keep her alive, and it's all me. I have worked to get her on antidepressants, tried to get her out of the house, tried to encourage her, tried to push her with words. I try to get her to do basic cleaning around the house.  But, it is not working.  She is in bed or on the sofa for almost all the day.  She says that "I don't understand how she feels.  She does not have the energy to get up and go any place or unload the dishwasher."   I don't have the right words to get her to be even a little active, I have tried all which ways.  I have even gotten on the phone and called her friends (who are lovely ladies and don't mind me calling) But, ultimately, you can't make someone do something they don't want to do.

 

While it may be true that I don't understand exactly how she feels, I do KNOW what happens to seniors when they stop, "doing".  This episode in the hospital did not surprise me.  The problem is that I don't see any change now that she is home, and I can see a future fraught with problems.  

 

So, we will just deal with whatever happens in life, and I will continue to try to encourage her and help her when things get worse.   :(   :(   :(   :(

(((HUGS)))

 

I am so sorry. It really is difficult. I have however come to the conclusion that with my mom, she makes her choice and has to live with it because the constant trying to engage her with life is taking its toll on my family as I was spending too much time worried about her and dad, and not enough energy was being spent here. So, now I sigh, do only a reasonable few things for her each week, and walk away. If he dies and she simply succumbs to doing nothing, no longer taking care of herself though capable, she'll likely have to go to a nursing home. I am not happy about that, but I can't make her do anything, and the mental and emotional energy expenditure will be to much for my family so she will have to live with the consequences of her choices. Very sad and tragic, but simply not something I can change either.

[G5052]

(((HUGS)))

 

I am so sorry. It really is difficult. I have however come to the conclusion that with my mom, she makes her choice and has to live with it because the constant trying to engage her with life is taking its toll on my family as I was spending too much time worried about her and dad, and not enough energy was being spent here. So, now I sigh, do only a reasonable few things for her each week, and walk away. If he dies and she simply succumbs to doing nothing, no longer taking care of herself though capable, she'll likely have to go to a nursing home. I am not happy about that, but I can't make her do anything, and the mental and emotional energy expenditure will be to much for my family so she will have to live with the consequences of her choices. Very sad and tragic, but simply not something I can change either.

 

Wise words. As much as I preached them to myself over and over, it's still hard.

 

I put myself on a big guilt trip when I got word that my uncle died in the ICU two weeks after being diagnosed with cancer. After being informed that he had died, his girlfriend just closed that book in her life and left him in the morgue without contacting me. Of course I would have been there if I had known, and of course it bothered me that he was in the morgue for a month before I could take over. But ultimately he made a choice not to let me know. I had been after him for ages to keep me in the loop and to make sure he had someone looking after him. He kind of did, but at least he wasn't alone in his house when he died. 

 

Ultimately they make their choices! 

Edited January 27, 2016 by G5052

[creekland]

Ultimately they make their choices! 

 

You know, as one who retreats to her cave, preferably by herself or with critters, whenever something goes wrong (physically or emotionally), this thread has been interesting to read.

 

Of course, I think it helps that I don't let myself stay in the cave beyond a certain period of time - at least - with what I've dealt with so far - my parent's divorce was the worst.  But honestly, I can't say what it is that causes that action.  Whatever it is is what some of these folks are missing.

 

Thinking abstractly and trying to put myself in other's shoes, I think the worst now that could happen is hubby passing away.  At that point I don't know that I'd do a cave (for long) but I could see picking up a backpack and wandering (alone) for a really long period of time.  Anything else and hubby and I are there for each other.

 

I suspect all of us would have our tipping point of huge grief and how we'd respond.

[TranquilMind]

Medication can be huge.  By the time people get into their 80s, often they are taking a ton of medication prescribed by different specialists.  They all act like they are the only ones prescribing.  Most are not that careful about cross-checking for interactions.  Pharmaceutical Dementia is a real thing.

 

On the other hand, trying to convince an older person sometimes that they *may* not need all that medication can be difficult.

Totally agree - and I've already been a caregiver.

 

I once heard that the best thing one can do for longevity of health after the age of 50 is to stay off prescription drugs.  Obviously, something like insulin wouldn't be optional, but so many ldrugs do so much damage for so little benefit.

But they sure are lucrative to pharmaceutical companies and doctors who keep people on maintenance drugs long term. 

 

I have a real problem with this.

 

When I was a caregiver, one particular medication made the person bedridden.  When we simply took her off of that one - because nobody had any freaking idea why she was even on it but it had been prescribed by someone during a hospitalization - she was out of bed in two days, and much more normal. 

 

Kids and sometimes grandkids need to protect the elders from this nonsense.  They are us in a blink of an eye, by the way. 

[TranquilMind]

Thanks for all the replies.  Yes, I am so aware of staying active, mentally and physically.  It is all about keeping quality of life for as long as you can.  But, sometimes I feel like it is a one-person show trying to keep her alive, and it's all me. I have worked to get her on antidepressants, tried to get her out of the house, tried to encourage her, tried to push her with words. I try to get her to do basic cleaning around the house.  But, it is not working.  She is in bed or on the sofa for almost all the day.  She says that "I don't understand how she feels.  She does not have the energy to get up and go any place or unload the dishwasher."   I don't have the right words to get her to be even a little active, I have tried all which ways.  I have even gotten on the phone and called her friends (who are lovely ladies and don't mind me calling) But, ultimately, you can't make someone do something they don't want to do.

 

While it may be true that I don't understand exactly how she feels, I do KNOW what happens to seniors when they stop, "doing".  This episode in the hospital did not surprise me.  The problem is that I don't see any change now that she is home, and I can see a future fraught with problems.  

 

So, we will just deal with whatever happens in life, and I will continue to try to encourage her and help her when things get worse.   :(   :(   :(   :(

Has she had her thyroid checked?  This almost sounds like hypothyroid, Chronic fatigue, or Lyme, from what you say. 

 

I'm sure she isn't choosing to lie in bed all the time because she enjoys it. 

 

One person in my family was untreated and hypothyroid and said exactly the same sorts of things. 

[goldberry]

Good genes and physical activity can be enough. My mum is a physically very healthy 91 year old. She's on only three medications. She's a loner who has had very sparing social contact for 30 years.

 

 

 

I think that's true.  My mom never really had any close friends.  The last things that she has left that she can do is garden and take care of her dog.  So that's what she does.  Every day starts with making food for the dog (she cooks for her), taking dog for a walk if the weather is good.  Then working in the yard.  Watering, planting, etc.  Afternoon nap.  Dog dinner. Reading in the evening.

 

She REALLY doesn't mind or miss not having any social contact.  Her and my dad don't even talk much.

 

Depends on the personality really. My dad needs to feel "useful".  He has a few friends, helps out at the VFW, works for my cousins company whenever they need an extra hand.  ALWAYS calls to check on our weather here, just in case we aren't aware it might snow~ ;)

[Laurie4b]

Check the Beers List put out by the American Geriatric Society, which lists all the drugs which are counterindicated in the elderly. Chances are if your loved one's meds are not being managed by a geriatric doc, she is on some of these. Some (antacids, Benadryl & other allergy meds, etc. ) are over the counter. http://www.americangeriatrics.org/files/documents/beers/2012AGSBeersCriteriaCitations.pdf

 

Additionally, being sedentary does start a downward cycle. Check into getting her some physical therapy to overcome the weakness from the hospital. (You lose muscle mass after only 3 days of being in bed!) 

 

Being sedentary is a risk factor for memory issues and fullblown dementia.

 

Depression is something that is underdiagnosed and treated in the elderly and can be the cause (or effect) of sedentary behavior.