My Oldest is Feeling Unsocialized :(

[shinyhappypeople]

We talked about her reasons for wanting to go to high school in a couple years.  I'm fine with her going to high school- it's a small Christian school, very positive environment, but I was wondering about her reasons for wanting to go.  Her ONE reason is that she feels "unsocialized."

 

Here's the example she gave:  

 

She's in a dance class.  Last semester it was only her and "B" in the class.  This semester there are an additional three students. These three girls and "B" are already friends through another activity they do together.  So, they group up and chat about stuff that happened in their other activity and have inside jokes.  DD feels left out.  As a result, she spends all of her down time chatting with the teacher.  She worries about being seen as a teacher's pet because of this.  

 

Also, she pointed out that the other girls seem to be messing around a lot, but she (DD) just wants to focus and LEARN.  (OK, true story, when she told me this last part about just wanting to learn,  I did a mental fist pump.  YES!   :) )  <--- I'm not sure what this has to do with socialization, but she brought it up.  Maybe she wants to act like the other kids?  But, messing around in class isn't really a positive social trait.

 

Now, backing up even further, when she was in public school for Kindergarten she ran into the same problem.  See, the thing is, she's kind of shy until she gets to know people.  It's not homeschooling it's personality... and there's nothing wrong with it.  It's not good/bad or right/wrong.  It's just part of the beautiful diversity in the world, you know?

 

I don't know how to advise her about the dance class.  I suggested she just go and sit with the other girls, smile, and just hang out.  She doesn't have to really say anything.  Just her continued presence in the group will make her part of the group eventually.  She hates the idea and says she won't do it.  Because... shy at first.  sigh.  So, I suggested she just give it time.  

 

Since I know this will be asked:  She has friends, is well-liked in general, and takes two dance classes a week, plus an all-day co-op once a week, plus a park day once a week.  So, yes, I do let her out of the basement periodically for fresh air and to have the opportunity to speak to non-family members.

 

How do I help her feel more socialized?  That seems like such a strange thing for a kid who has no problem navigating social situations appropriately (she's not weird, just shy), is kind, responsible, funny, and a loyal friend.  She's socialized quite well... but just doesn't feel it.  I'm not sure what to do.

[Starr]

I'm sorry this class isn't working out socially as she hoped. She doesn't sound unsocialized to me. But, middle school, she doesn't sound like she wants advice.  :grouphug: She just wants it different.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Cliques happen in all sorts of situations.  Perhaps she could invite B to do something with her away from class sometime and then B can give her more entry into the friendship with the other girls? 

[SparklyUnicorn]

I'm similar.  Always was.  I had friends, but they were always super close special friends.  I was never so great at just jumping in on a conversation and easily meshing with new people.  I was never homeschooled.  I guess I just flunked "socialization"?  Really I don't think so.  I think this is just who I am.

 

My younger kid complains about stuff like this.  He seems to think that school would magically cure this.  I don't think so.  He does tons and tons of stuff that involves being around a lot of people where he has plenty of opportunity to socialize.  I think it just does not come easily to him (like me).  I try to explain that to him, but I guess he doesn't yet believe me. 

 

 

[Laurie4b]

I am out of the homeschooling business, as mine are grown up. None of my kids has expressed negativity toward being homeschooled, but they have all noted that there is, in fact, difference in socialization. Generally, they have viewed homeschool kids as shyer, more awkward socially, and less attuned to social cues. The more sheltered the kids, the more intense these traits are in my kids' experience. Some of those things may be viewed as positives, for instance, if your teen isn't tuned into some cultural references that you don't regard as positive. To really "fit in," one generally has to hold "fitting in" in high regard. Not particularly caring about "fitting in" but marching to one's own drummer is often regarded as a positive trait. Being able to be alone can also be a positive trait. So homeschoolers in general are going to lean more to this side of the spectrum. Cause even the ones being schlepped all over creation still do not have the day-to-day, hour-by-hour rubbing of shoulders with the same group as kids in a brick and mortar school environment do. ETA: There is no substitute for that. Tons of activities will not do it unless the kids at the activities are at most of the activities; otherwise, kids at activities tend to clump up with kids they know from school. Happens in youth groups, sports, etc. 

 

So in terms of your dd's situation, I would listen carefully to her. If she is shy by personality, being homeschooled will, in fact, create different challenges for her than if she were not homeschooled. The challenges might not be more intense, but they will be different. So my advice would be not to blow it off, but to keep an open mind and continue to discuss it with your dd. Private schools, including Christian private schools, can be hotbeds of cliques, even worse than public schools because of the wealth differential.  So the grass is not particularly greener anywhere, just different. 

Edited January 20, 2016 by Laurie4b

[fairfarmhand]

I'

 

My younger kid complains about stuff like this.  He seems to think that school would magically cure this.  I don't think so.  He does tons and tons of stuff that involves being around a lot of people where he has plenty of opportunity to socialize.  I think it just does not come easily to him (like me).  I try to explain that to him, but I guess he doesn't yet believe me. 

 

"Hmm...how do you think that school would change this dynamic?"

 

"If you're awkward jumping into a conversation with girls at your dance class, how is school going to help with that? Don't you think that it'll just go from feeling awkward at dance class to feelinging awkward at school?"

 

In middle school, kids begin to think that homeschooling is a convenient excuse for their personal issues. My kids have grown out of this and learned to accept who they are. They also don't realize that EVERYONE feels awkward in the teen years. It's not just homeschoolers!

[elegantlion]

Maybe it's the art of chit chat she is missing.I'm shy and it takes repeated exposure to a group to make me comfortable. Learning how to make small talk helped me immensely. I'll pull up some book titles when I am not on my tablet. Most of the ones I know are geared toward business, not teen girls but the principles still would apply.

[Anne]

Maybe it's the art of chit chat she is missing.I'm shy and it takes repeated exposure to a group to make me comfortable. Learning how to make small talk helped me immensely. I'll pull up some book titles when I am not on my tablet. Most of the ones I know are geared toward business, not teen girls but the principles still would apply.

 

This.  I really wish I had just introduced this as a seminar for my kids - both for my extrovert and my introvert.  The extrovert could have used some reining in and guidance on conversational topics - and the introvert definitely could have used some instruction on "how to chit-chat".   

 

No instruction is ever going to turn an introvert or shy person into a conversational maniac, nor should we desire that.  But knowing "how" to do something and having some tools to do it with can really ease any anxiety a person might feel.

 

Anne

[SparklyUnicorn]

"Hmm...how do you think that school would change this dynamic?"

 

"If you're awkward jumping into a conversation with girls at your dance class, how is school going to help with that? Don't you think that it'll just go from feeling awkward at dance class to feelinging awkward at school?"

 

In middle school, kids begin to think that homeschooling is a convenient excuse for their personal issues. My kids have grown out of this and learned to accept who they are. They also don't realize that EVERYONE feels awkward in the teen years. It's not just homeschoolers!

 

Oh definitely!  It did not help that in his drama class they were doing skits on what middle school and high school might be like.  The kids all think it'll be the funnest time ever.  So I know where his questioning came from. 

 

If I were to ever send him to school, it absolutely will not be middle school.  Noooo 

 

I think it is fair to question it and wonder about it and think maybe the grass is greener on the other side. 

[freesia]

I think that feeling a bit awkward in social situations with new folks really normal 12 year old girl feelings. They have become more self-aware. Most middle school girls feel out of it at times. I sure did in jr. high--and I had friends.

 

I agree with encouraging general social skills--smiling,asking about the other person, etc. Give her the tools,but don't pressure her to use them.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I read something brilliant recently.  It basically suggested that one way to win friends is to act very interested in what interests someone.  Or to ask them to talk about themselves.  People LOVE to talk about themselves and they love it when others seem excited by them. 

I mean it only took me 41 years to learn this information.  LOL

 

 

[SparklyUnicorn]

Then again I think I've pulled this off a few times.  I am an extrovert magnet.  And I don't mean middle of the road extrovert.  I mean like country ruling narcissistic type extrovert.

 

 

[ErinE]

Then again I think I've pulled this off a few times. I am an extrovert magnet. And I don't mean middle of the road extrovert. I mean like country ruling narcissistic type extrovert.

You seem like a good listener...

Edited January 21, 2016 by ErinE

[Terabith]

I agree with what everyone has said, but I'm going to play devil's advocate.  School really might help. 

 

We sent my oldest to school in fourth grade, partially because she and I were butting heads constantly, but a large part of it was that she was leaving the age where she made friends just in proximity.  Going to the park and playing with kids wasn't meeting her social needs, you know?  She needed to see a consistent group of kids on a daily basis, with a commonality of experiences. 

 

Obviously, school isn't the only way to get that.  But it probably is the easiest way.  It's not a panacea by any means, nor a guarantee.  It took awhile, but it did work. 

 

I probably should have done something a year before I did.  We were trying to meet her social needs other ways.  But activities just didn't have the intensity needed to help forge friendship. 

[Mrs. Tharp]

Shiny, I was like this myself in middle school and ran into this kind of situation over and over. I agree with your perception of the situation. This is not a problem with being unsocialized, it's a problem all shy, studious, middle school-aged girls encounter eventually. I think your advice to her was dead on. It's okay to be shy, but if she doesn't want to feel left out, she's going to need to learn how to "fake it" by acting interested and chatting at least a little. She'll have to do it over and over again in her life with various groups of women, so she may as well start practicing now. Easier said than done, though. I don't know if I could have followed my own advice in middle school. Sigh....

[shinyhappypeople]

First of all, the suggestion to teach her the art of small talk is awesome. I'm going to look for some youtube videos for her to watch.  

 

I have a *small* update: one of the new girls asked DD to help her with her pirouette before class.  Baby steps....

[rainbird2]

I read something brilliant recently.  It basically suggested that one way to win friends is to act very interested in what interests someone.  Or to ask them to talk about themselves.  People LOVE to talk about themselves and they love it when others seem excited by them. 

I mean it only took me 41 years to learn this information.  LOL

 

This sounds like it is from How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie:

 

http://www.amazon.com/How-Win-Friends-Influence-People/dp/0671027034/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1453346008&sr=8-1&keywords=how+to+win+friends+and+influence+people

 

I really enjoyed this book.  It will be required reading for my kiddos when they are older.

[Incognito]

Is your daughter possibly feeling like she is missing having a close friend?  It is one thing to have various friends, it is another to have a close friend you share your highs and lows with.  There are various ways of growing close friends (take activity friends and invite them to do things outside the activities, for instance).

[Cafdog]

I put my DD back in PS after 3 years of homeschooling.  It was the right decision for both of us, for sure.  It wasn't easy, but we are both very glad that she re-entered the public school system in 8th grade rather than high school, as it gave her a chance to get used to changing classes, lockers, multiple teachers, etc. before entering her current, huge (2700+ students) high school.  She was also able to make some great friends, as well.  

 

My DD is a bit shy and takes some time to warm up to people.  She was glad to get a chance to "re-enter" PS in a smaller, less stressful environment. 

 

Good luck!  :)

[SparklyUnicorn]

This sounds like it is from How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie:

 

http://www.amazon.com/How-Win-Friends-Influence-People/dp/0671027034/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1453346008&sr=8-1&keywords=how+to+win+friends+and+influence+people

 

I really enjoyed this book.  It will be required reading for my kiddos when they are older.

 

Yep.  It was something quoted from that book (in another source).  I think I'll get the book though.

[Tess in the Burbs]

My boy is this way OP.  He is fine when he has people he had gotten to know....comfortable and social.  But in a group of people he hasn't had months to know, he struggles.  It is VERY MUCH his personality and not a socialized issue.  I, too, have encouraged just being with the group of kids so they can get to know him.  Again, he hated the idea like your daughter.  However, he has learned to be on the fringe even if he hates it.  Often the reality is he is more mature.  He hates the silliness or crude behavior.  And even my daughter feels the same way when she meets girls who are boy obsessed.  My kids CAN be very social.  But they can also be very antisocial depending on the group of kids.  We joined a class recently and my daughter went to sit with 2 girls who clearly know each other already.  She learned to do that.  She also has learned if after a few weeks they don't start including her...to migrate to other groups.  if only my boy would learn that lesson....

 

As for your girl's situation...I agree she should just hang out near them even if she feels left out.  And then maybe migrate away after trying a bit.  Someone in the group is going to notice she was there and then not.  Hopefully they will try to talk to her more. but they may just not be worth it.  Only she can decide.  

 

And as much as I want to help my kids navigate friendships....they are figuring it out on their own.  Things they tell me how they handled a situation here and there.  They will figure it out.