If you grew up with a very intense/challenging sibling...

[AK_Mom4]

4. Inside the house, her room needs to be her sanctuary. We've made sure she has a lock, and we try to let her have things that help make it feel safe: a white noise app on her tablet, her music, calming CDs, comfy bedding.

      Currently, DS1 and DS2 share a room. They aren't alone awake together, as they fall asleep in separate bedrooms, then we move the one that was in my room that evening into their room. DS2 wakes really early, so he's well out of the room before DS1 wakes up. However, it's becoming clear to me that DS1 needs a place to protect his things from his brother's anger. This is a new development (before, he would only lash out at me and my things, not those of his brothers), so we're suddenly trying to figure out what that our options are. The toddler really isn't old enough to be trusted in a bedroom with big boy things, so I'm not sure how to make this work...

 

Hey Books - if it helps, we went thru this.  It turned out that it was easier to protect oldest's DD's things from her toddler little sister than we had expected.

 

We invested in a trunk with a lock for older DD's things and hung finished projects from a high clothesline. We also stored her stuffed animals and crafty stuff in a clear storage box with a locking lid.  Little DD was never in the bedroom except when she got put down for nap or bed time - we even had a baby gate to keep the toddler OUT of the bedroom during the day when older DD was in there working on her stuff.  This let older DD have her sanctuary during the day and kept her belongings safe. 

[brehon]

Re:  protecting older sib's things from toddler sib (because I haven't mastered the quote w/i a quote thing):

 

Hey Books - if it helps, we went thru this.  It turned out that it was easier to protect oldest's DD's things from her toddler little sister than we had expected.

 

We invested in a trunk with a lock for older DD's things and hung finished projects from a high clothesline. We also stored her stuffed animals and crafty stuff in a clear storage box with a locking lid.  Little DD was never in the bedroom except when she got put down for nap or bed time - we even had a baby gate to keep the toddler OUT of the bedroom during the day when older DD was in there working on her stuff.  This let older DD have her sanctuary during the day and kept her belongings safe. 

 

This is what we've done with my older kids' special things to protect them from younger siblings. It works well.
 

[Carol in Cal.]

I think part of why this happens is because people see alcoholism as something that can be helped or changed.  (I don't see it that way.) 

Actually, no, in this particular case (it was a very long time ago in my parents' generation) it was because alcoholism was still seen as a moral failing.  The parandoid schizo. was perceived as not being able to help it, and the disability was from a war injury, but the alcoholism was seen as seriously bad weakness of character.

[Carol in Cal.]

 

Your first line is exactly the type of denial and over-protecting of the atypical at the expense of the typical child that I see way too often.

On the contrary, it's not protecting the atypical but instead making sure that other issues are addressed also, which is very important, as several have said.

 

In the example I gave there were three unusual problems in the family, but one was chosen to carry the entire weight of all of the family's difficulties, which was unfair and also which made the difficulties harder to address.  That is easy to see in families with more and less typical children as well.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Actually, no, in this particular case (it was a very long time ago in my parents' generation) it was because alcoholism was still seen as a moral failing.  The parandoid schizo. was perceived as not being able to help it, and the disability was from a war injury, but the alcoholism was seen as seriously bad weakness of character.

 

Yeah that is what I meant.  People seem to think alcoholism is different than other mental illnesses.  And my guess is that alcoholism may often just be masking another mental health issue. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

See, I am upset from my own family of origin and families I see in real life how many excuses are made for the atypical child's behavior and how much is expected of the typical child. I see much much more expected of the typical child in terms of maturity, and tbh much too little often expected of the atypical child.

 

Your first line is exactly the type of denial and over-protecting of the atypical at the expense of the typical child that I see way too often. I understand that the atypical child has struggles and needs to be understood, but it is a HUGE stress on siblings and they need to be protected and understood sometimes at the expense of the atypical child.

 

And yes I am being blunt, but I am really, really tired of seeing this happen.

 

I hear you.  I grew up with three people who had a severe mental illness.  Hard to come out of that feeling whole.  My needs usually came last. 

 

I am not really bitter.  It is what it is.  I've had my moments with it for sure though.

[Supertechmom]

Pay attention to the non-squeaky wheel. Offer them support even when they don't "need" it. Remember, these patterns will continue into adulthood. When your difficult child needs lots of hands-on support to raise their children, TRY to spend time with the grand kids who have capable parents too. Those kids are just as deserving of a relationship as the kids with screwed up parents. The capable kids will give up on you and stop asking you to be a proactive participant in their lives. If you care, carve out the time. If you don't make time for them because you're too busy putting out fires, they will emotionally distance themselves from you and your dysfunction.

 

Do NOT put all of your time, effort, and resources into your troubled children and expect your capable children to be your old age support. That's like blowing all your money on the lottery then wondering why those Apple stocks you never bought aren't paying off.

 This is so true.  My  kids don't have a relationship with my mom because she can't stop handling my brother's needs which only got passed to his kids and now their children.  Now in old age, the expectation is for me to shoulder the care which means do my part and his.   You can't spend your life dealing with the troubled kid and think the "right" ones are going to hang out in the wings until called.   I can't recall a single memory from childhood that wasn't filtered through my brother's issues.

[SparklyUnicorn]

 This is so true.  My  kids don't have a relationship with my mom because she can't stop handling my brother's needs which only got passed to his kids and now their children.  Now in old age, the expectation is for me to shoulder the care which means do my part and his.   You can't spend your life dealing with the troubled kid and think the "right" ones are going to hang out in the wings until called.   I can't recall a single memory from childhood that wasn't filtered through my brother's issues.

 

I don't blame you one bit for wanting to distance yourself from that.  I don't have a relationship with some family members for this reason.  Sometimes I feel bad and sad about it, but there is only so much a person can take sometimes.

[freesia]

On the contrary, it's not protecting the atypical but instead making sure that other issues are addressed also, which is very important, as several have said.

 

In the example I gave there were three unusual problems in the family, but one was chosen to carry the entire weight of all of the family's difficulties, which was unfair and also which made the difficulties harder to address.  That is easy to see in families with more and less typical children as well.

Yes, it is important not to do that. However, the OP asked for feedback from siblings and many of us were sharing how we were scapegoated or, at least, expected to be "good". Your post read to me like more of the same message many of us got as children--don't blame it on the "intense/challenging child"--anything that can be deflected onto the other child (so the intense child doesn't feel too badly) should be. I am sharing with the OP that this type of thing build resentment fast. I get how a parent could desperately want one child to have it together/keep it together/handle everything with maturity, but it isn't fair to that child. If it feels too hard, it's time to get help.

[freesia]

I hear you.  I grew up with three people who had a severe mental illness.  Hard to come out of that feeling whole.  My needs usually came last. 

 

I am not really bitter.  It is what it is.  I've had my moments with it for sure though.

I'm not either, and am actually really surprised how intense my reaction to this topic is. Maybe it's having just spent time with family (even though in my case said brother is actually doing really well now). I feel like my parents got help for and with my brother and they moved on, while my other brother and I were just suppose to move on with no support--am I making sense? I mostly feel like I have moved on, I just want other kids in this situation now to get the understanding and support that they need. Even someone saying, "Wow! I see how really hard this is. What can we do to help/support you?" Not in order to make them victims--just to give them permission not to hold it together all the time or feel badly about not wanting to hold it together.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I'm not either, and am actually really surprised how intense my reaction to this topic is. Maybe it's having just spent time with family (even though in my case said brother is actually doing really well now). I feel like my parents got help for and with my brother and they moved on, while my other brother and I were just suppose to move on with no support--am I making sense? I mostly feel like I have moved on, I just want other kids in this situation now to get the understanding and support that they need. Even someone saying, "Wow! I see how really hard this is. What can we do to help/support you?" Not in order to make them victims--just to give them permission not to hold it together all the time or feel badly about not wanting to hold it together.

 

Yes, perfect sense.  I did not realize how much certain things bothered me until very long after the fact.  When it is happening, you barely realize it is not normal (for lack of a better word).

[SparklyUnicorn]

Even once I remember talking on the phone when I was a teen.  I had met a guy (friend, nothing more) who had grown up in a similar situation and I was kind of excited to find someone I could relate to.  My mother overheard some of the conversation and she was mad at me because I had said something.  Now I get her side of it, but she didn't get mine.  I wasn't even allowed to talk about it.  That's not right.

 

 

[gardenmom5]

Yes, perfect sense.  I did not realize how much certain things bothered me until very long after the fact.  When it is happening, you barely realize it is not normal (for lack of a better word).

 

you can't know it's not normal - it's normal for you.  I did see other families - and I could sense there was something different (and much healthier), but I was powerless to do anything about it.

there were still things I was nearing adulthood before I realized they were not remotely "normal" (let alone healthy.)

 

Even once I remember talking on the phone when I was a teen.  I had met a guy (friend, nothing more) who had grown up in a similar situation and I was kind of excited to find someone I could relate to.  My mother overheard some of the conversation and she was mad at me because I had said something.  Now I get her side of it, but she didn't get mine.  I wasn't even allowed to talk about it.  That's not right.

 

my grandmother waffled between not allowing me to grieve my father's death   - and telling the repairman all about it.

 

if I said I needed something (re: new glasses), I was told, essentially, to shut up and stop trying to get attention.

 

OP - when something good happens for your "good" child - let them shine, support them in something good happening to them.  let them know how thrilled you are for them - that they deserve to have good things happen to them.  (don't focus on what they didn't accomplish.)  when good things happened to me - my grandmother treated me as if I'd stolen something from my problem sister.  that is not how to create filial affection.

[happi duck]

The notes! Oh ya...I tried that. I got in trouble for that too. My mother and father didnt speak to me for over a week because I wrote down my frustrations about too many punishments and expectations and my desire to have one on one time with my parents. They said that what I said was hurtful. I even spoke tearfully with my pastor after church about what I said in the note and the fact that they were no longer speaking to me, which angered them more because now I tried to make other people listen to my complaining. That was the last time I put any trust in "open communication" with my parents or any faith in their statements that they cared about me. As an adult I know they love me as one of their children, but they do not know or understand me as a person. We will never be able to openly communicate.

 

Moral of that story...if you are going to go the note route, make sure you are prepared to not take the raw feelings of a resentful, hurting child who is trying to reach out as a personal attack. If you do, you will close the door to open communication. And yes, their words may sting, but they are hurting and need to have a place to get it out, even if some of the blame or frustration is misplaced. If you cannot be this person, a counselor is needed.

This bears repeating.

 

Writing with my mom worked because I knew I could ask/say anything and not get in trouble or have it mentioned to my sister or brought up as "how can you say that?", kwim?

 

I could trust my mom 100%. (I miss her :( )

[Storygirl]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is tattling. I grew up with an older brother who was verbally abusive and just plain mean to me. He was bigger and more aggressive. When things were going badly during our (unsupervised) playtime, I would go to my mother for help. Her response was inevitably, "no one likes a tattletale." Those words seared. I already knew I was unliked. And I didn't have a way to defend myself without appealing to an adult for help. But in seeking help, I was branded a tattletale and given a negative message about myself.

 

As a parent, this can be a hard line. I want to teach my kids skills for working things out among themselves, and I work on this with them. I don't want my kids to complain about each other without trying to resolve things first. But someone who has been offended by a sibling needs to be able to ask a parent for help with the problem without being disregarded or insulted.

 

It's a good idea to work proactively as a family to figure this kind of dynamic out.

 

 

Edited December 31, 2015 by Storygirl

[Supertechmom]

you can't know it's not normal - it's normal for you.  I did see other families - and I could sense there was something different (and much healthier), but I was powerless to do anything about it.

there were still things I was nearing adulthood before I realized they were not remotely "normal" (let alone healthy.)

 

 

my grandmother waffled between not allowing me to grieve my father's death   - and telling the repairman all about it.

 

if I said I needed something (re: new glasses), I was told, essentially, to shut up and stop trying to get attention.

 

OP - when something good happens for your "good" child - let them shine, support them in something good happening to them.  let them know how thrilled you are for them - that they deserve to have good things happen to them.  (don't focus on what they didn't accomplish.)  when good things happened to me - my grandmother treated me as if I'd stolen something from my problem sister.  that is not how to create filial affection.

 

I had not thought of it that way but that is the perfect explanation.  Anything I do now or my kids do now are thefts from the brother and his. He should have the college degree, the nice home, the cars, the stable family, the great kids.  Mine should be trouble and I often feel that the family is just waiting for everything to go south for me because how dare I have the things the problem child deserves.  He works so hard and everything goes bad for him while my life is just charmed (sic)

[gardenmom5]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is tattling. I grew up with an older brother who was verbally abusive and just plain mean to me. He was bigger and more aggressive. When things were going badly during our (unsupervised) playtime, I would go to my mother for help. Her response was inevitably, "no one likes a tattletale." Those words seared. I already knew I was unliked. And I didn't have a way to defend myself without appealing to an adult for help. But in seeking help, I was branded a tattletale and given a negative message about myself.

 

As a parent, this can be a hard line. I want to teach my kids skills for working things out among themselves, and I work on this with them. I don't want my kids to complain about each other without trying to resolve things first. But someone who has been offended by a sibling needs to be able to ask a parent for help with the problem without being disregarded or insulted.

 

It's a good idea to work proactively as a family to figure this kind of dynamic out.

 

and when there is an age/maturity difference, the younger child does NOT know, and should not be expected to know - how to stand up for themselves and present their case in a reasonable manner.  that is what parents are supposed to teach.  telling kids to "work it out yourselves" is a cop out.

 

[gardenmom5]

I had not thought of it that way but that is the perfect explanation.  Anything I do now or my kids do now are thefts from the brother and his. He should have the college degree, the nice home, the cars, the stable family, the great kids.  Mine should be trouble and I often feel that the family is just waiting for everything to go south for me because how dare I have the things the problem child deserves.  He works so hard and everything goes bad for him while my life is just charmed (sic)

 

:grouphug:   my grandmother went so far as to give my sister money for a down payment on a house - how dare I marry a man with college degrees and in process of building a house!  (my sister was married to a mechanic - understand my grandmother told her HE was too good for HER! yeah, 'cause a guy who uses pot, get's drunk, hits a pregnant woman, etc. is such a catch./ he's cleaned himself up.)  

 

when we bought a minivan - she was given money to buy a minivan. the THIRD new car my grandmother purchased for her.  she even paid to send my neice to private school . . . .then my grandmother died (and mom took over) . .. when 1dd got into a high ranked university - she completely ripped on it and what a horrible and degenerate school it is (um, if it's that horrible, why do so many apply? and fork out a lot of $$$$?), in front of dh's family too. (sil asked me who the whackadoodle was)  then our mother died . . . now her children are adults, and her oldest barely speaks to her.

 

my sister did become VERY entitled. her whole life - she was given the message she deserved all these things (because she's had such a hard life :nopity: ), and when good things happened to me, it really belonged to her.

 

I really got the feeling over the years my grandmother hated me - and she really would get angry when good things happened to me. she was very jealous.

 

and all the while - my mother is whining because we aren't "friends".  well mom - you have no one to blame but yourself.

 

I'm sure my grandmother had some type of personality disorder - it magnified the destructiveness of every problem by 1000X.

Edited December 31, 2015 by gardenmom5

[SparklyUnicorn]

you can't know it's not normal - it's normal for you.  I did see other families - and I could sense there was something different (and much healthier), but I was powerless to do anything about it.

there were still things I was nearing adulthood before I realized they were not remotely "normal" (let alone healthy.)

 

 

 

So true.  And do I have some stories to tell about people I've met that turned out to be "interesting" and I didn't notice.  I don't know if I should laugh or cry about that.

[katilac]

I'm really uncomfortable with the extent to which the atypical kid is being regarded as the 'enemy' in this thread.

 

 

I don't think that has happened in this thread. 

 

 

And, can I cry at the thought of sending them to camp at separate times? I've been dreaming of the year when they are all old enough to go to camp together so I can have a week off.  :leaving:

 

Ha, you can cry, but you still have to do it, lol! Or hope for enough money to send them at separate but overlapping times. 

 

We're hitting you with a lot, but just by asking the question and carefully considering the answers, you are halfway there. 

[bluemongoose]

Pay attention to the non-squeaky wheel. Offer them support even when they don't "need" it. Remember, these patterns will continue into adulthood. When your difficult child needs lots of hands-on support to raise their children, TRY to spend time with the grand kids who have capable parents too. Those kids are just as deserving of a relationship as the kids with screwed up parents. The capable kids will give up on you and stop asking you to be a proactive participant in their lives. If you care, carve out the time. If you don't make time for them because you're too busy putting out fires, they will emotionally distance themselves from you and your dysfunction.

 

Do NOT put all of your time, effort, and resources into your troubled children and expect your capable children to be your old age support. That's like blowing all your money on the lottery then wondering why those Apple stocks you never bought aren't paying off.

 

 

I was away grocery shopping and just got back to this thread.

 

KungFu: A million times this!!!!! I can even explain how this dynamic is a major thorn in my side. My parents are blowing all money that could be a retirement on my "less monetarily" fortunate siblings, and spending all their extra time with them and their children. They rarely see mine or even consider that I may need any attention/assistance/breaks etc. They are always "too busy".  And yet they tell me that someday I will be funding their retirement since they wont have any left.