Poor ds; he never saw it coming...

[Shelly in IL]

We went to the apple orchard with friends today with a group of kids of various ages/sexes that he has been like family with for years. The mom brought another boy who is friendly with the group (just not as tight), as a favor to his mom who was home sick.

 

Other boy was marking his territory with ds' good friends (1 cool boy and 2 cute girls). He took my son (on the sly away from his friends) up to the top of a play gym, pinned his arms behind his back and pushed forward (so my son was over the railing). He said, "I could break your arms right now." He did this not once but 2 times.

 

DS was horrified/embarrassed/hurt. He was bopping along with his buds, new friend says "Get away." He ignores him and continues playing with everyone. New kid grabs him and does this!

 

It is a sad state of affairs when I have to counsel my son to head butt another kid, so he can get free. Sad that I had to say, "If you break his nose, I'll stand behind you." My son is 12 and in the 7th grade. I guess I'm lucky he hasn't had much experience with bullies, but tonight he (and I) am heartbroken.

[Remudamom]

Well, yeah, they have to learn to defend himself. Teach him how to land a good punch to the nose. That'll shut a bully down fast.

 

Make sure he knows a proper head butt, he can hurt himself.

[Caraway]

Well, yeah, they have to learn to defend himself. Teach him how to land a good punch to the nose. That'll shut a bully down fast.

 

Make sure he knows a proper head butt, he can hurt himself.

 

What exactly is a proper head butt?

[Caraway]

We went to the apple orchard with friends today with a group of kids of various ages/sexes that he has been like family with for years. The mom brought another boy who is friendly with the group (just not as tight), as a favor to his mom who was home sick.

 

Other boy was marking his territory with ds' good friends (1 cool boy and 2 cute girls). He took my son (on the sly away from his friends) up to the top of a play gym, pinned his arms behind his back and pushed forward (so my son was over the railing). He said, "I could break your arms right now." He did this not once but 2 times.

 

DS was horrified/embarrassed/hurt. He was bopping along with his buds, new friend says "Get away." He ignores him and continues playing with everyone. New kid grabs him and does this!

 

It is a sad state of affairs when I have to counsel my son to head butt another kid, so he can get free. Sad that I had to say, "If you break his nose, I'll stand behind you." My son is 12 and in the 7th grade. I guess I'm lucky he hasn't had much experience with bullies, but tonight he (and I) am heartbroken.

 

How exactly did this all play out? Were you watching from below? Yelling up?

 

Sounds awful! :grouphug:

[Shelly in IL]

that the proper headbutt would be one where he takes the back of his head to the guys' face!

[Lolly]

Hugs to you. It's rough when you have to advocate violence to your kids. Been there.

[Danestress]

I certainly would. I would be so angry if I were this boys mother and I found out he acted this way. And I would be particularly angry if no one told me about it. I were his mother, he would be writing your son an apology, and your friend too.

[Starr]

We haven't found other parents sympathetic in these situations. Sorry!

[Shelly in IL]

I can only encourage him to work it out himself and learn from the situation. I think at 12 and 7th grade, he can't have mommy come and sort it out for him. Coming of age is really hard - for mommy, too. Trust me - I'd like to bash the kid - remember, I'm the one who said, "Headbutt him and if it breaks his nose, I've got your back."

[Shelly in IL]

The kids were at the playground, the adults were at the picnic tables. So, no direct interaction there. My son is very credible and incidentally this kid was bullying another of the boys there (found out later).

 

Sadly, this boy is really good looking and his good friends (girls) were in his corner over my sons', just to be cool around him. (Yeah, good riddance, DS). I am tempted to tell their mother...

 

What doesn't kill you makes you stronger, right?

[Danestress]

I meant just meant that you should give the parents of this boy some information they need. Of course, they might not care. But many parents really would. As a mother of a former 12 year old, I still felt that at this age he was accountable to DH and I. I needed to know when he was behaving in a way that we needed to address. I expected teachers and other parents to let me know when he acted badly. I would really really have wanted heads up on this. I know some parents aren't helpful. And I know you want your son to feel he was allowed to work it out as a young man.

 

But as a parent, I wanted to know if my child is acting out at 7, bullying other children at 12, drinking at 16. I really think we parents do each other a favor when we include each other. I never wanted my son to get away with things, you know?

 

Personally, I would want to know.

[Shelly in IL]

and dad come down hard on him for it, my son will be looked on as a tattletale? I briefly talked to my husband (of course, out of town when things like this happen) and he was really not for calling the parents.

 

But I really can see your point, but don't know how to do it without putting my son in a bad light with his friends. Any suggestions? Thanks.

[Shelly in IL]

We know his parents. They would be mortified of his behavior (at least I think so). They are really devout homeschooling parents with 6 kids who are really (by appearances anyway) nice. My son was excited to see this kid there today, as he always has had fun with him before.

[beansprouts]

and dad come down hard on him for it, my son will be looked on as a tattletale? I briefly talked to my husband (of course, out of town when things like this happen) and he was really not for calling the parents.

 

But I really can see your point, but don't know how to do it without putting my son in a bad light with his friends. Any suggestions? Thanks.

 

I definitely see your point, but I also have a problem with keeping silent out of fear. Where other children are being bullied as well, it seems to me that somebody needs to be courageous enough to blow the whistle, and accept the consequences. I would want my children to see that we stand up against abusers, even if it makes us unpopular.

 

I am very, very, sorry that you and your son are having to deal with this. :grouphug:

[Reya]

We haven't found other parents sympathetic in these situations. Sorry!

 

No kidding. Children usually behave this way because their parents permit/encourage it.

 

So sorry to hear it--and yes, unfortunately, there are times when beating the holy snot out of another kid is the only option. I was THE "smart girl" at school and so would be periodically bullied by total strangers (large school) who assumed that smart meant I was weak.

 

Did I mention that I was also the strongest female weight lifter of my grade? :-) Yeah. Not a good choice to pick on me. I always kept a leash on my temper, so even when I was jumped (and that REALLY ticked me off), I didn't hurt anyone too badly. Mainly, I just wanted to embarrass them enough that they wouldn't try again....

[Shelly in IL]

He is the skinniest little bit of a thing! He is pretty small for his age - other kid is quite a bit bigger and stronger.

 

My ds, "Mom, I am going to pray for Andrew tonight. I'm going to pray that God makes him nice. And, I am going to be his friend if it kills me. Otherwise, he wins." He definitely is a good kid. I love him and and proud of him for his attitude.

[Tree House Academy]

I feel your pain. My son was only 8 when I watched a bully hit him right in front of me. My son was bobbing along out of his classroom (this was in ps last year) and looking for me. He wasn't paying attention to or harming this kid and out of nowhere the child hit him. I , on the other hand, did not keep my cool. I told the kid right there not to touch my son again. The principal of the school told me it wasn't my place. Really? As his mother, it is not my place to protect him in HER school. Ha. Let's see...reason number 9 million that we homeschool.

 

I am sorry this happened to your son. I would make sure to tell the mother of the other kids - she probably also didn't see this coming. If I were in her place, I would be mortified and tell the bully's mother immediately.

[Danestress]

and dad come down hard on him for it, my son will be looked on as a tattletale? I briefly talked to my husband (of course, out of town when things like this happen) and he was really not for calling the parents.

 

But I really can see your point, but don't know how to do it without putting my son in a bad light with his friends. Any suggestions? Thanks.

 

Well, I definitely think you should go with your husband's position over mine:) But I do understand what you are saying.

 

I wouldn't call about small things. I do think boys this age need to feel we trust them to work things out. But I think that when you find yourself giving a 12 year old permission to break someone's nose to stop their physical bullying, that's probably a point where you need to think about his parent's need to know.

[Reya]

He is the skinniest little bit of a thing! He is pretty small for his age - other kid is quite a bit bigger and stronger.

 

My ds, "Mom, I am going to pray for Andrew tonight. I'm going to pray that God makes him nice. And, I am going to be his friend if it kills me. Otherwise, he wins." He definitely is a good kid. I love him and and proud of him for his attitude.

 

I was, BTW, 123 lbs at my heaviest--as a senior in high school. And I was in the 20th %ile for height until 8th grade. So I was quite small! That's also why people assumed I was weak.

 

Most of the people who went after me only knew *about* me--that I was the "smart girl," a "goody-goody", etc., etc. They assumed that my life was great, and since theirs wasn't, they wanted someone to hit, and I seemed like a pretty good symbol for everything they couldn't have/be/whatever.

 

Weightlifting doesn't require as much size as you'd think, just as an FYI. It just requires persistence and training. I was a decent long distance runner, but because of my weird metabolic condition, I was an absolutely terrible sprinter, so I could never escape anyone. Since I had a huge flaming target on my back, I had to deal with it somehow!

 

I also tended to put my nose in the way if someone else was being bullied, especially in elementary school, and if you are going to stop someone else from being bullied, you have to be able to tackle the bully yourself. I always hoped for nonviolent resolutions to such confrontations, but once a bully takes a swing at you (because you're standing between him and his target), you don't have much choice but to swing back until you've got him to a point where he'll listen to reason again.

 

Weirdly, about two-thirds the kids who decided to jump me at some point or another became my ardent defenders and admirers later. It usually started with the realization of how much stronger I was than them and the fact that I wasn't using that strength and then increased when I treated them decently after they tried to hurt me. *shrugs*

 

I really did try to hurt them as little as possible to achieve my purpose. A lot of teachers thanked me at various points for "being a good influence" on this kid or that kid. Funny thing was, I wasn't tying to influence anyone. I was just trying to be decent and fair--though that did NOT include letting them beat me up!

 

I do hope your little one's prayer works! It's hard to council a kid to hit someone back when there SHOULD be another way out--that doesn't involve your child taking damage. It's also hard to explain how sometimes we have to do things like that but that we shouldn't take pleasure in it any more than a parent does in spanking a child--that was hard for me as a kid because there are always a few kids whom I'd wanted to hit for some time because of how they'd behaved toward me or others. It was hard not to feel good sometimes when they finally escalated to physical violence and I had to respond--and hard sometimes to respond with the absolute minimal amount of force necessary.

 

But I knew even then that a kid like that's angry at the world--and probably has a lot of problems I couldn't even guess at. And I tried to keep that in mind and treat them with as much restraint as I possibly could.

 

I wouldn't recommend that your child try to "make" Andrew like him--I REALLY wouldn't. If you do, he will see it as weakness--like he's begging not to be hurt--and bully him more. Instead, your child should continue to treat Andrew with respect. Don't grub for his attention, but don't shun him, either. Basically, he should be "the bigger man," if you know what I mean. He could talk to him, if the occasion arises, about the nature of friendships and that people can be more than one person's friend, etc. (This because Andrew obviously is jealous of your son and wants to usurp his place...) And he can bring up the fact that you have to make your own friends, and the best way of doing that is to be a good friend yourself--if your son is one who can introduce these kinds of things without being hokey. :-)

[Sebastian (a lady)]

and dad come down hard on him for it, my son will be looked on as a tattletale? I briefly talked to my husband (of course, out of town when things like this happen) and he was really not for calling the parents.

 

But I really can see your point, but don't know how to do it without putting my son in a bad light with his friends. Any suggestions? Thanks.

 

Because if they think he's a tattletale they'll hold him down and hurt him? Or look the other way while someone else does?

 

Not trying to be harsh but if the parents are never told because they might not take it well, then they will always have the excuse that no one has ever complained before.

[Guest Katia]

I think you should tell the parents as well. What exactly is a 'tattle-tail'? I've heard this all my life and when I was a kid it meant chanting something like "Johnny stuck his tongue out, Johnny stuck his tongue out" over and over, or "Mary didn't close her eyes during prayer". Something silly like that.

 

When did the meaning of tattle- tail change? Now it seems like whenever some child does something wrong and another child tells an adult that a wrong was committed, that is a tattle-tail?

 

Sorry. I just don't agree with that. I've told my dc there is no such thing as a tattle-tail. My dc are taught that when some other child they are with is doing something they know is wrong, it is their DUTY to come and tell me or another adult.

 

When we, as adults, see another adult doing something wrong (as in committing a crime) do we not tell the authority? The same should hold true with children: they tell the adult in authority. This act was a crime against your ds and the other child and his parents should expect that his crime will have consequences. Not that he can commit an act of violence against another person and get away with it because of a word like "tattle-tail".

 

Tell the parents. Insist that this be dealt with.

[Slartibartfast]

I would tell his mother, that is really scary behavior IMO

 

:grouphug:

[Jean in Newcastle]

Bullying can range in degree of severity. Threatening to break someone's arms is in my opinion something that is more serious than throwing a dodge-ball too hard during a game, or simply being snotty to someone. Obviously if someone followed through on a threat like that they would be guilty of assault. But the threat itself would be considered pretty serious if coming someone older. Even if this child doesn't realize the implications of his behavior, his parents need to know about it.

[Amy in Orlando]

I think you should tell the parents as well. What exactly is a 'tattle-tail'? I've heard this all my life and when I was a kid it meant chanting something like "Johnny stuck his tongue out, Johnny stuck his tongue out" over and over, or "Mary didn't close her eyes during prayer". Something silly like that.

 

When did the meaning of tattle- tail change? Now it seems like whenever some child does something wrong and another child tells an adult that a wrong was committed, that is a tattle-tail?

 

Sorry. I just don't agree with that. I've told my dc there is no such thing as a tattle-tail. My dc are taught that when some other child they are with is doing something they know is wrong, it is their DUTY to come and tell me or another adult.

 

When we, as adults, see another adult doing something wrong (as in committing a crime) do we not tell the authority? The same should hold true with children: they tell the adult in authority. This act was a crime against your ds and the other child and his parents should expect that his crime will have consequences. Not that he can commit an act of violence against another person and get away with it because of a word like "tattle-tail".

 

Tell the parents. Insist that this be dealt with.

Katia, I don't know how old your kids are, but tattletails ARE real and other kids do not take kindly to them - right or wrong.

 

I do think the op should give the mom in question a call and explain what happened - she really might have no clue. More likely, she does have a clue and doesn't have a clue how to address it. Beyond that phone call, I think more adult involvement could actually make things worse for op's son. Sad as it is, that is the reality we've experienced.

 

Shelly, are martial arts classes an option for your son? I'm always amazed at what the kids have learned and how quick they are able to defend themselves regardless of size. I know our martial arts school has specific programs in Sept/Oct/Nov geared to self-defense and bullying. They're very affordable and very effective in boosting kids' confidence AND giving smaller kids ways to handle it when things get physical. I encourage you to call around and also check at your local Y.

 

I do not advocate bullying. I do not advocate accepting bullying, but the fact is, as the kids get older, you are NOT there all the time - nor should you be. My kids (at 11-13) ranged in the mid-tall range, but in the bottom of the weight percentiles. The biggest thing (imo) they learned in tae kwon do (but this is taught in most of the martial arts) was to use their voice. They learned to be loud and be effectively loud. It sounds crazy, but it works. And something about this kind of training boosts their confidence (even in a really short time period).

 

I hope you can find a way to empower you son. It's so hard to watch them get older and know that you can't just do the mommy-on-the-playground thing. I really hope you call the offending boy's mom. I hope you get a positive response from the mom - I'd certainly like to know if one of my boys was behaving so badly.

 

((()))

[Guest Katia]

Katia, I don't know how old your kids are, but tattletails ARE real and other kids do not take kindly to them - right or wrong.

 

 

 

((()))

 

My dc are 24yo, 19yo and 16yo. Does age in tattle-tails make a difference?

 

No matter what their ages are now, I've always taught them to tell me when another child is doing something inappropriate. Always.

 

Why would that be wrong?

 

And, who cares what another child thinks? If they are doing something as wrong as this child is, and that child doesn't like that my child told an adult, so what? I wouldn't want my dc around a child like that anyhow. No great loss.

 

I just don't seem to be getting what the issue is here?

[teamturner]

My ds, "Mom, I am going to pray for Andrew tonight. I'm going to pray that God makes him nice. And, I am going to be his friend if it kills me. Otherwise, he wins." He definitely is a good kid. I love him and and proud of him for his attitude.

 

What a sweet kid who has the right idea about prayer! My twin boys were bullied by a total stranger at a park last spring. They both were totally blindsided and the boy was pulling hair on one ds (as he was coming up the ladder) and completely jumped on my other ds's back and practically knocked the wind out of him. I was not there as I was sticking close to the 2yo. Anyways, my point is my boys who do take martial arts didn't know what to do since that had never happened before and the kid ran away pretty quickly. They were completely shocked that someone would do that. After discussing it with them and my dh, we came to the conclusion that if someone is hurting you, you can defend yourself and do something back. But if someone did something and then stopped they were to say to the offender, "Don't do that again or I will hurt you!" with all the guts they could muster. I don't think it matters about size if you just know what to do in those kinds of self defense situations. I second the idea that your ds take martial arts. Even if he doesn't have to use it, it will give him confidence and not be afraid. I agree with those that have said to call the parents and let them know. Even the best of families can have a kid get off track. Perhaps there is a bad influence in his life that the parents are not aware of. That was a pretty serious offense. If it had been something minor perhaps not but in this instance I would call them.

[Amy in Orlando]

My dc are 24yo, 19yo and 16yo. Does age in tattle-tails make a difference?

 

No matter what their ages are now, I've always taught them to tell me when another child is doing something inappropriate. Always.

 

Why would that be wrong?

 

And, who cares what another child thinks? If they are doing something as wrong as this child is, and that child doesn't like that my child told an adult, so what? I wouldn't want my dc around a child like that anyhow. No great loss.

 

I just don't seem to be getting what the issue is here?

 

I didn't explain myself well. YES! I think age makes a big difference in tattling. It's different when little kids "tattle." In fact, I think that word is only appropriate with the 10 (or so) and under set. By all means kids should tell you, the parent, when something weird/violent/weird is going on - and I don't see that as wrong at all.

 

But, I think we differ on what comes next (when they're older). Obviously, if one of my kids is in danger or if they tell me about another kid who is doing scary, inappropriate things, we'd remove them from the situation. But if it's something I think my kids could/should handle on their own, I don't think I'm doing them any favors by butting into every conflict. I can coach them, I can speak to the adults in charge without referring to specifics.

 

As they get older, I know my sons don't want me to be involved (beyond my parent role) in Scouts or Tae Kwon Do. I want them to learn (meaning they can talk to us but I'm not going to leap in every single time) to handle things for themselves. For us (see my kids' ages) this is an ongoing process.

 

I don't think our opinions are that different. (I might be wrong) That's the downside of message boards - it would be so much easier to talk face-to-face about this kind of thing.

[Guest Katia]

Ok, I did the google thing. The definition of "tattle-tail" that I found is actually "tattle-tale". It is someone who spreads tales (false stories) about someone else, or someone who reveals a secret. Idle talk. Chatter. Gossip.

 

That is NOT one child telling an adult that another child has done something wrong. This is not a secret, a false tale, idle talk, chatter or gossip.

 

So, the question I asked in the first place is: What is a tattle-tail? Obviously many of you here think it is different than what I found on google. But what?

 

I am thinking the word "Informer" is the best that fits what I am seeing here. But, even when I google "Informer" I see that it is simply one who imparts knowledge or news, or informs against another specifically for a financial reward.

 

I'm just in the dark here as to what you-all are meaning when you say tattle-tail. I just don't believe it can ever be wrong to let adults know someone is doing something wrong. No matter what the kids think.

[Amy in Orlando]

Ok, I did the google thing. The definition of "tattle-tail" that I found is actually "tattle-tale". It is someone who spreads tales (false stories) about someone else, or someone who reveals a secret. Idle talk. Chatter. Gossip.

 

That is NOT one child telling an adult that another child has done something wrong. This is not a secret, a false tale, idle talk, chatter or gossip.

 

So, the question I asked in the first place is: What is a tattle-tail? Obviously many of you here think it is different than what I found on google. But what?

 

I am thinking the word "Informer" is the best that fits what I am seeing here. But, even when I google "Informer" I see that it is simply one who imparts knowledge or news, or informs against another specifically for a financial reward.

 

When I say/hear tattletale - I think of a kid (generally a little kid - under 10) who finds himself in a situation where things are not going his way and he opts to go to an adult (in an attempt to save his own behind) and say that "x and x did this and I took no part in it" to avoid getting in trouble himself.

I'm just in the dark here as to what you-all are meaning when you say tattle-tail. I just don't believe it can ever be wrong to let adults know someone is doing something wrong. No matter what the kids think.

 

For me, the term tattletale is something very little kids experiment with when they're 3-4-5 and they try again when they're 7-8-9. For me, it's something I deal with quickly and with little mercy in general cases.

 

With older kids, I don't tend to think of "tattletale." With my own kids, if it's that important/disturbing or whatever, I am glad they come to me, but their motive is different than that of a tattletale. They're not trying to get someone else in trouble, they're simply telling me about a situation.

 

Does that help or make it worse?

[Reya]

My dc are 24yo, 19yo and 16yo. Does age in tattle-tails make a difference?

 

No matter what their ages are now, I've always taught them to tell me when another child is doing something inappropriate. Always.

 

Why would that be wrong?

 

And, who cares what another child thinks? If they are doing something as wrong as this child is, and that child doesn't like that my child told an adult, so what? I wouldn't want my dc around a child like that anyhow. No great loss.

 

I just don't seem to be getting what the issue is here?

 

My neighbor didn't like my son being a "tattle tale" on her son--untill the day she walked in and saw her son doing something really awful (not to my son but to her belongings) as my DS was calmly watching. She hit the roof, and I said, "Well, if you won't let DS tell, what else can he do after he's asked your son to stop?" From then on, things were different. Ahem.

 

The biggest problem was simply that my DS is so much better behaved than hers. If my DS breaks a rule--which he very occassionally does--her DS happily does it, too. If her DS does something wrong, 9 times out of 10, my DS tries to stop it. It's not fair if he A) can't tell but B) gets in trouble for anytihng done in his presence! But that's the way some parents are.

 

This was also the kid we finally had to tell DS to smack the snot out of because he wouldn't stop being a brat and a bully. DS is very unhappy about hitting, but since the neighbors won't punish their child, its the ONLY deterrent he has.

[Guest Katia]

For me, the term tattletale is something very little kids experiment with when they're 3-4-5 and they try again when they're 7-8-9. For me, it's something I deal with quickly and with little mercy in general cases.

 

With older kids, I don't tend to think of "tattletale." With my own kids, if it's that important/disturbing or whatever, I am glad they come to me, but their motive is different than that of a tattletale. They're not trying to get someone else in trouble, they're simply telling me about a situation.

 

Does that help or make it worse?

 

LOL! Yes, this is exactly what I was thinking a tattletale was. :001_smile:

 

I just don't see how it applies to OP's situation. She wondered if her son would be looked at as a tattletale.

 

Answer: NO. He would not.

[PameliaSue]

I definitely see your point, but I also have a problem with keeping silent out of fear. Where other children are being bullied as well, it seems to me that somebody needs to be courageous enough to blow the whistle, and accept the consequences. I would want my children to see that we stand up against abusers, even if it makes us unpopular.

 

I am very, very, sorry that you and your son are having to deal with this. :grouphug:

:iagree:

[Amy in Orlando]

LOL! Yes, this is exactly what I was thinking a tattletale was. :001_smile:

 

I just don't see how it applies to OP's situation. She wondered if her son would be looked at as a tattletale.

 

Answer: NO. He would not.

 

See - I think he would given his age - unless maybe he was the oldest boy in the group. I'm not saying it's right, but from my experience with my own boys, it's what happens. Much past ten, I think you have to equip them with ways of handling things (even if they're telling you what is going on) on their own.

 

Maybe, Katia, we should agree to disagree, but I don't think we're all that far apart in our thinking.

[PameliaSue]

Shelly in IL,

It sounds as if you are believers.... ds was praying for the bully. Scripture gives a clear course of action for this situation if the family of the bully are also believers.

Matthew 18:15-17 "Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that ‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.' And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.

 

Even if they aren't, going to them is, I believe the right thing to do.

 

I agree with other posters who have mentioned that if we were talking about adults here this would be grounds to call the police. You can't go around physically threatening people! I understand that these are children and boys specifically but you could even call the police with how it stands now... I know that sounds extreme but if your neighbor were to treat you in the same fashion you wouldn't hesitate to call the police. So why hesitate to call the bully's parents?

 

I have experienced this very thing, though with younger children. We advised our child to punch the bully in the nose. We also told the older sibling to take care of his younger brother and step in if he saw it happening again. We talked with the bully's parents after making sure our boys knew to physically protect themselves if need be. We told the bully's parents this, right out..... "I told my ds to punch your ds in the nose if he ever does that again." I went on, without any apologies to explain that I never want my child to be victimized like that again and that I have OKed any violent response he decides to dish out. This child of mine is NOT violent and quite shy... we chose this response because we felt he needed the empowerment and validation. We may have taken a different route with a child who tends to bully.... if that makes any sense. This specific child NEEDED that response from us. Our older boy who is HUGE and tough would have gotten a different talk...something along the lines of, "Don't let him hurt you and try not to hurt him too much in the process of not letting him hurt you."

 

These situations are tough!

[Chris in VA]

By age 12, he'd be called a snitch, not a tattletale.

 

But that's beside the point.

 

There's not a magic age where we just "let them work it out." There's a level of comfort with oneself, a level of competency in handling social situations like this, and an ability to handle the consequences of getting someone else involved in problems that are too big to handle--and yep, it involves telling the proper authorities, whomever they may be. Starts usually with knowing parents will support you, then when older, the teacher (if in school), then when adults, the police and other law enforcement.

 

I would NEVER expect my children to handle physical contact and threats (it's the combo that I find crucial here) by themselves, no matter what age they are. NO MATTER what age they are. In school, if you sock a bully, you get labeled as one, too--in later years, you can go to jail for defending yourself if the other person can make the case that you somehow provoked it--and he can lie his @ss off.

 

I feel VERY strongly (can you tell?) about this. There is an extremely fine line here, between helping our kids feel empowered and able to handle the "snide comments/exclusionary" type of bullying, and letting them know we will help them if threatened by the kind of bullying your son had to put up with. I think you gave him a good idea to defend himself, but you have GOT to call the parent of this kid and tell exactly what happened. Be calm, but do not be "nicey-nicey"--use a strong voice and do not apologize for "having to tell you this..."

 

He basically assaulted your son. He could be charged as a juvenile. This kid does not have the proper social boundaries to be with your child unsupervised. Please do not let him play with your child again. Even if (and it's not really a possibility) the other boy was "just kidding," it was totally and completely wrong, dangerous, and, frankly, sickening.

 

Had I heard about it while there, you can bet I'd have been on the phone immediately to his parents, would have told the other kid in no uncertain terms in front of every stinkin' person there to leave my kid alone, and I would have left.

[beansprouts]

When we, as adults, see another adult doing something wrong (as in committing a crime) do we not tell the authority? The same should hold true with children: they tell the adult in authority. This act was a crime against your ds and the other child and his parents should expect that his crime will have consequences. Not that he can commit an act of violence against another person and get away with it because of a word like "tattle-tail".

 

 

It is more complicated than this. It requires speaking out against an abuser, which requires a great deal of courage no matter how old you are. Even as adults there will be people who support the abuser and condemn those who speak out, but we should not let that deter us from making a stand. Somebody has to stop the abuse. It is the right thing to do, for all parties. Your ds and the other children deserve protection, the abuser's parents deserve the opportunity to try to parent their child out of this dangerous behavior pattern, and the abuser, also a child, deserves the chance to learn that his behavior is distructive both to others and himself.

[beansprouts]

My ds, "Mom, I am going to pray for Andrew tonight. I'm going to pray that God makes him nice. And, I am going to be his friend if it kills me. Otherwise, he wins." He definitely is a good kid. I love him and and proud of him for his attitude.

 

I hope it works out this way, Shelly, I really do! :grouphug:

[wagnfun]

We went to the apple orchard with friends today with a group of kids of various ages/sexes that he has been like family with for years. The mom brought another boy who is friendly with the group (just not as tight), as a favor to his mom who was home sick.

 

Other boy was marking his territory with ds' good friends (1 cool boy and 2 cute girls). He took my son (on the sly away from his friends) up to the top of a play gym, pinned his arms behind his back and pushed forward (so my son was over the railing). He said, "I could break your arms right now." He did this not once but 2 times.

 

DS was horrified/embarrassed/hurt. He was bopping along with his buds, new friend says "Get away." He ignores him and continues playing with everyone. New kid grabs him and does this!

 

It is a sad state of affairs when I have to counsel my son to head butt another kid, so he can get free. Sad that I had to say, "If you break his nose, I'll stand behind you." My son is 12 and in the 7th grade. I guess I'm lucky he hasn't had much experience with bullies, but tonight he (and I) am heartbroken.

 

cough, cough.. refer to my earlier post on why I'm ok with my kids learnign to fight!!!

 

This is the exact reason!!! Your son didn't have to fight but like you said, if he'd had a little knowledge, a headbutt or a quick manuver would have done him good.

[threetreasurs]

If you didn't see it happend yourself, the situation can become a awkward quickly if/when you speak to the parents - so tread carefully.:)

[DB in NJ]

I can only encourage him to work it out himself and learn from the situation. I think at 12 and 7th grade, he can't have mommy come and sort it out for him. Coming of age is really hard - for mommy, too. Trust me - I'd like to bash the kid - remember, I'm the one who said, "Headbutt him and if it breaks his nose, I've got your back."

 

:iagree: I think you're absolutely right, although the mama bear in me would've wanted to go rip the bully's face off. ;)

 

I don't mean to pry, but is there a dad in the picture? If so, I'd let dad handle it. Just keep him fed, dry, warm, and comfortable and let dad handle the bully stuff.

 

:grouphug: I can only imagine how difficult that was for you both.

[Shelly in IL]

Thankfully dh got home this morning and we were able to talk about the situation.

 

What we have decided may not be what you choose to do, but this is what we have decided is best for our family. We are not going to call the parents.

 

Dh is going to get a punching bag for the 2 ds', and show them how to use it. Various methods of self-defense will be discussed and practiced.

 

In the long run, this was probably a good eye-opener for us, as we have the "sweet kid." The kid that doesn't get into scrapes (we don't live in a neighborhood - so not alot of kid interaction other than our co-op), and is genuinely a joyful kid who would never expect to be mistreated.

 

Perhaps this situation is a good dose of reality on our otherwise "perfect" little lives here on the farm. Let's face it, we need to know how to deal with bullies, people who are nasty and otherwise jerks, as well as the good people that we usually are with. He is a boy, who will be a man. He has to stand up for himself and someday (God willing) his wife and family. A loving environment for support is a good time to deal with the harshness of life. (I'd rather he learn it now than at h.s. or college)

 

Don't get me wrong, I fully understand the "wanting to know" business of being the other mom. I would want to know. But, in the reality that is our life, I think he would be better served, if we just "got over it" and learned from our experiences.

 

Thank you so much for your input. We were suffering when I originally posted, today we are warriors!

[Cornerstone Classical]

 

He basically assaulted your son. He could be charged as a juvenile. This kid does not have the proper social boundaries to be with your child unsupervised. Please do not let him play with your child again. Even if (and it's not really a possibility) the other boy was "just kidding," it was totally and completely wrong, dangerous, and, frankly, sickening.

 

Had I heard about it while there, you can bet I'd have been on the phone immediately to his parents, would have told the other kid in no uncertain terms in front of every stinkin' person there to leave my kid alone, and I would have left.

 

 

My ds went to a private christian school during middle school, and there was this one kid that bullied everybody. All the students and teachers over looked him for YEARS. This kid had it out for mine and slammed him around a couple of times. We went to the principle about it and the bully basically got a slap on the wrist.

 

Well, one day ds came home with a bruise on his side where this bully had pushed him into a door and the door knob buised this area.

 

Needless to say, we were at the police station. And found that this kid could be charged with juvenile assault. The next day, DH went to the principle and told him that he had enough chances to fix the problem with this bully, he told the Principle that the incident was logged with the town police station, and they were on stand by to swear out a warrant. And dh told the principle that it would be all over the paper of our small town.

 

Needless to say that kid never looked in the direction of my son again.

 

It's ashame that the problem didn't get fixed because it was just the right thing to do.

 

It got fixed because the principle didn't want the 90% of the Country Club parents to see their precious private school in the newspaper.

[beansprouts]

Thank you so much for your input. We were suffering when I originally posted, today we are warriors!

 

The fact that you are feeling empowered by your decision speaks volumes to me. I know that you know what is best for your family. {{HUGS}} to you and your boy.

[FlockOfSillies]

My nephew often comes to me and tells me that one of my kids did something he thinks is bad. It's frequent enough that I ask him, "Are you telling me this because you're worried about my kid, or because you're trying to get him/her into trouble?"

 

For me, I guess it has a lot to do with intent. It's not always a cut-and-dried thing, but for me "tattle-tales" are kids who merely want to see someone else get busted.

[mom4sons]

My eldest son is also 12 and it is so important to identify the various types of bullying. While this is typical physical bullying, this is a great time to teach about emotional bullying also.

I stress for my little men to strengthen friendships which encourage and strengthen them. If a child walks away from a playdate feeling less confident about himself, it is important to consider this impact and evaluate future decisions.

[bkpan]

He is the skinniest little bit of a thing! He is pretty small for his age - other kid is quite a bit bigger and stronger.

 

My ds, "Mom, I am going to pray for Andrew tonight. I'm going to pray that God makes him nice. And, I am going to be his friend if it kills me. Otherwise, he wins." He definitely is a good kid. I love him and and proud of him for his attitude.

 

Tell him that I'm proud of him too. What a precious boy you are raising! I hope that he never needs to use the skills your dh is teaching him.

 

Kim

[melmac]

Oh, that's awful. I hope he's feeling better.