Questions

[kwg]

I am too embarrassed to ask anyone I will have to see socially but I need to know if this is normal and/or what you would do if you were me. 

 

Please do not quote.

 

My husband and I got into an argument. Lately our arguments do get kinda volatile (yelling, cursing at each other). Our most recent one- It is difficult to say without a boring blow by blow but basically I was bitchy and said something hurtful. When he expressed sadness, I was *still* bitchy (according to him) by saying "well yeah ok maybe I should not have said that , it was ugly BUT you still did blah blah blah." That shocked him that I would be mad at *him* after what *I*  had said.  I started to walk off  in anger and he yelled for me to stop. He hates that and I know that he hates it but in the moment I was not thinking about his needs but my own. So I was not being spiteful but selfish I guess.  When I did not stop, he stood in my way and barred the exit and when I kept going he grabbed my arm and would not let go. There was a struggle; I did not lose my footing, but coffee was spilled around.  My son ran out of the house and I turned to follow him.  I felt so bad. My parents fought a lot and my dad did hit my mother.   But my husband followed me, yelling for me to 'get back! get back in here '. I was so embarrassed-neighbors - and worried -poor ds- so I did go back in where I told him I was going to check on ds. I was pissed. I mean..just ....furious.  I thought "I will not let him see I am scared right now" (that is weird right, that that is how I would feel?) We yelled back and forth; he still would not let me check on ds. I was not backing down.  My ds is not yet 10 :(  and I wanted to make sure he was ok. And I was furious he had tried to prevent me from leaving the room in the first place.  He ended up calling to my oldest and told HIM to get his brother.  I told him that was messed up and wrong, he had no right to try to stop me from going anywhere, etc etc. and he said "I made him do it". I hit the roof with that.  It was hard for me to care about the first part of the argument after that.   Eventually things calmed down, we talked it out. I never did make it outside to check on the kids but I did talk to them later. I think they are ok.  He apologized for grabbing me and I apologized for my part in the initial argument that started the whole thing.  I felt like he did not take seriously what he did and it took precedence in my mind, it seemed "worse" to me than me "just" saying something snippy and being unsympathetic.  He saw the whole thing the same way, what I said was worse and I was not taking my responsibility in the whole thing seriously.

 

 

That night we had overnight guests, close friends we have vacationed with who remarked that they had never seen my husband so affectionate. It made my stomach hurt. Like this is creepy. wrong.  Stop being so weird. We have been married 18 years and now I feel like my life is a lifetime movie.  Or maybe he just feels badly and is trying to make up for it.  I have a history of being physically abused so maybe I am over reacting?  Despite wanting to talk about it and knowing my guest would not be really harsh with me, I did not tell her because she was seeing dh as nice and affectionate and said she felt glad, she had been worried about me.  Lately he has been a bit of an ass around them and I did not want to make him look bad.  It was hard for me to have them over and pretend. 

 

The next morning I noticed a bruise where he had grabbed me.  My first thought was to not mention it  since it would make him feel bad and he is already so clearly on edge etc, ...then I thought 'sheesh you sound like an abuse victim; he needs to see what he has done'.  Once we were alone, I showed him and said I thought it was from him. He said he hoped not because he felt bad already.  I gave him a look that said "you wouldnt feel bad if you hadnt done it' 

 

So -clearly-I am still pissed.   I can see what I did wrong but I still feel like he really took it to the next level and it is hard for me to see that as normal and ok.  Maybe that is because of my history? And because I am not feeling empathetic?  Ugh. I want to feel that way, I just do not. I feel mad and suspicious.  Part of me is scared- how do you know if your husband has a brain tumor? Or is loosing his mind? Or is it me?  It could be.  I was bitchy.  We have been under some stresses (close family member was killed almost a year ago and the trial is starting soonish. We have had preliminary meetings) .  Neither of us is performing any where near capacity. Or maybe crap like this just happens and we just need to keep plugging along?  I vaguely recall reading that the fifth year of marriage, for example, is tough.  Perhaps it is the same for the 18th?

 

Would you think that arguement was a big deal? What would you do about it if it was your marriage?  

 

[Incognito]

Yes, that argument is a very big deal (because of how it devolved, not because of how it started).  

 

I am not sure what I would do.  Do you have any coverage for family counselling?  

 

If anything even remotely similar happened again, there would be severe, likely permanent consequences regarding our family structure.  Or at least I like to think there would be, but life is complicated and I can understand how people end up in really crappy places.

[NorthwestMom]

You guys need to get to counseling pronto. Individual and marital. It basically sounds fixable, but you BOTH need to get healthier as individuals so that your marital relationship and your family can be healthy too. DO IT for your kids, if not for yourselves! 

 

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

[umsami]

:grouphug:

 

It's not OK.  You're right, he went too far.  It's right to be completely weirded out about this.

 

If you called the cops, the bruise would be evidence.  Take a picture of it, even if you do nothing with it.  Put a newspaper next to it and document it.  You may need it.  I truly hope you never do.

 

You cannot make somebody do this.  

 

The over-affection after is very normal....Honeymoon effect.

 

He may never ever do anything like this again.  He might.  Work on a safety plan, just in case.  Work on putting some money aside, just your own, just in case.  I would call 1-800-799-SAFE (National Domestic Violence Hotline) and talk to somebody.  (They will not force you to do anything, so don't worry that calling them could cause problems for your DH.  They will just talk with you, talk about resources in your area, etc. )

[Chris in VA]

Big, big deal. Get help, both of you. NOW. Do not let him convince you that you don't need it, or that it's your past that's making you feel this way.

 

PLEASE GET HELP.

[Aiden]

What you did was bad and shouldn't have been done.

 

What he did was abusive and possibly illegal. I'm not sure what I would do in your situation, but I do know that I would make it very clear to my husband that if it happened again, I was leaving. And I'd follow through. It may not be a permanent separation, but it would be a separation.

 

Even aside from my own feelings and safety, I would not allow my children to think that behavior was normal or acceptable.

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

Here is my take on it, right or wrong. I have always felt (and have had to back up, in one instance) that I can give a partner one pass in an otherwise long, sane, safe relationship on physically scaring me (something like grabbing an arm, banging something down near me, etc.). What you described, IMO, would constitute my one pass. I would be angry, and I would be addressing it proactively. No one physically prevents me from doing what I want/need to do, ESPECIALLY when it comes to my kid, without repercussions. But I could potentially accept that it was one overheated moment in a lifetime of normal relations. 

 

Now, that said, in your story, other, major red flags stand out to me: his refusal to acknowledge that the physical trespass was the (much) bigger issue than whatever you could possibly have said to him, the "you made me do it," the intense affection later, and that fact that your friend, with her objective eye, has flat out told you she's been worried about you. All of this, on top of the first-time physical contact, would make me go straight to counseling and require that DH go with me. 

 

I don't think you're overreacting at all. Good for you for recognizing the signs and being prepared to address them. I do think you guys have fallen into a bad dynamic, and ignoring it now will allow it to begin the slide down the slippery slope. Take the reins and get help now, for both of you, and for your whole family's sake. Please don't let your children think this is what marriage could or should be like or how men should treat women or how women should allow themselves to be treated. 

 

Big  :grouphug: to you in working all of this out. 

[marbel]

Nodding my head in agreement with every word ILiveInFlipFlops wrote.   

[Tanaqui]

There are a few things that really stand out to me and concern me.

 

First, there's the fact that you spend your entire narrative focusing on your supposed faults. YOU were selfish, YOU were bitchy, YOU should have been thinking more about his needs. (And after the fact, rather than talking to your friend about your needs - and she said she was worried without knowing of this incident - you were concerned about making him look bad.)

 

With that framing, well, gosh, it sure sounds like (flag number two) he's convinced you that you really did "make him" grab you. But that can't have really been the case. He was involved in this argument as well. (And I will say in no uncertain terms that the phrase "you made me do it" is very highly associated with abusers.)

 

When somebody comes and tells this story where they were scum and their long-suffering partner finally snapped (because she "made him" get to that point), this worries me. Regardless of his actions, which I'll come to, I am concerned simply by the fact that you frame this story as though you're the one at fault for his actions. That's not healthy, and whatever else you do, I urge you to get counseling.

 

So here's what he actually did after your argument. He attempted to prevent you from leaving a "volatile" situation. He grabbed you, hard enough to leave a bruise. He then followed you outside, yelling at you to "get back here" as though you were a recalcitrant child or a misbehaving puppy rather than his wife. He continued to prevent you from moving freely and checking on your child. Is that about the size of it? He then proceeded to blame his behavior on you. Because he's a grown man, but you still "made him" act that way.

 

And this is the end of a recent period of tension and arguments, and it's left you feeling scared, vulnerable, uneasy.

 

You have a right to those feelings, and frankly, I think they're fully justified. What your husband did was unacceptable. It sounds like it hasn't happened before, and maybe it really is a one-off, but regardless, I strongly suggest you seek couples counseling and make it clear to him that you will leave if there are any repeats.

 

As for him being sweet and nice now, this is common. It's called a "honeymoon period". Even if he really truly feels bad, that doesn't guarantee he won't do it again. If there IS a repeat of this incident, or anything like it, please - make an exit plan.

[Plateau Mama]

What you did was bad and shouldn't have been done.

 

What he did was abusive and possibly illegal.

 

 

In my state the moment he grabbed you and prevented you from going it is considered kidnapping and had the police been called he would have spent a night in jail.

 

Leaving marks on someone is never acceptable. It doesn't matter who started it or who behaved worse he physically hurt you. Not Ok. Ever. I, personally would not allow him back in my house w/o counseling and possibly anger management classes.

 

That being said you both need counseling.

[clementine]

It it was my marriage, it would be a big deal.   I think talking to a professional would be a good idea.   :grouphug:

[SKL]

This was the first time this ever happened in 18 years?  You were having company that night?  Was anything else different?  Sounds like self-control was temporarily lost by both of you somewhere along the way.

 

I think you both need to cool down, reset, and each admit once again that you made mistakes.  Do not do the "relative guilt" thing.  The physical thing MUST NOT happen again, and your husband needs to acknowledge that.  I think you both need to get to the bottom of why you both acted out of character and decide what you can do to make sure it never happens again.  If you're not yet ready for this conversation, wait until you are.

 

It is not acceptable for him to man-handle you in a way that made you scared or put marks on you (or for you to do it to him).  But it does happen in healthy marriages, though rarely.  I can remember my parents having a few rare moments like that, and they are still "happily married."  (My mom's reflexive reaction was to put 10x the hurt on my dad, so that could be why he never got into the habit.)

 

Please do NOT tell yourself that it is in any way OK for this to happen to you.  No no no no no.  I don't care how nasty your words were, it is never OK for a man to lash out physically at a woman.  He knows it too.  And I guarantee he doesn't ever want this to happen again either.  But that doesn't mean it won't.  Something needs fixed.

[Pamela H in Texas]

I agree with SKL that you take a break from the situation and then you sit down and talk.  You each admit where you messed up.  And then you lay it on the line that the physical aspect may not ever happen again, no matter what.  Hopefully, he acknowledges he was in the wrong and agrees it will not happen. 

 

Honestly, when you tend to be a bit more demonstrative anyway (based on the yelling, cursing, etc part) and then add extra stress, you really do have a situation where such things are more likely to happen.  Prevention and having plans so as not to go there is very important.  Then add practicing holding your tongues, being empathetic, understanding that people do better when they can, etc.  You really need to use every trick in the book because you already naturally are at a much higher rung anyway. 

 

This kind of situation is EXACTLY why I tell my kids that NO ONE can *make* you feel or behave in any way.  You may FEEL mad because someone does XYZ but they didn't make you mad.  He may have grabbed you in anger; but you didn't MAKE him grab you.  He is a grown man.  He can own his own feelings and behaviors (just as you can).  

 

 

[zoobie]

I don't know whether your words crossed the "verbal abuse" line, but his actions definitely crossed the "physical abuse" line. It sounds like you both need professional help (anger management, communication, marital and individual levels), and I would insist on a physical separation while you seek it. Your children should be in a safe physical and emotional space.

[MercyA]

You were both in the wrong. He was wrong to grab you, and you were wrong to say hurtful things. You've been married for 18 years with no physical abuse, correct? If this hasn't happened before and doesn't happen again, I personally wouldn't be hugely concerned about it. 

 

You definitely need to talk and figure out how things can go better in the future.  :grouphug:

[Susan Wise Bauer]

This post is actually against board guidelines. I'm leaving it up for a few more minutes so the OP can see the responses, but then it has to come down.