Tell me how to be a mean mama!

[TXMomof4]

I am at my wits end with my kids. The girls are driving me absolutely batty! Particularly my oldest. She's 8 and if life is this awful when she's 8, she's going to a convent before she's 13.

 

DH has been gone most of the time since April and won't be back til the end of next summer. Apparently, this translates into "I don't have to do cr*p til next summer because I'm persecuted because my daddy is gone." EVERYTHING I ask my oldest to do is either half done, or takes 16 years to accomplish - accompanied by whining, crying, pouting, yelling, etc. We've had lots of talks about the fact that yes, it stinks that dad is gone, but life has to go on, and I need help. I spend probably 70% of every day just trying to stay out from under all of the laundry, dishes, messes that my children produce. I'm not a clean Nazi, but I have to have order in my house or it really makes me psycho.

 

We've had a chore list going for the last few months. We start every week with $5 in dimes in their jar. If they finish their chores for the day before they go to bed, they get to keep all of the money. If they don't, or give me attitude (in excess) they lose 1 dime for each chore unfinished, and have to do the chores anyway. I really thought this would help with oldest dd. She's very motivated by stuff - money especially. But it doesn't seem to bother her at all to lose the money. I asked her to feed the dog yesterday and she said "I don't want to, I'll just give you my dime." :blink: I told her it would cost 3 dimes - 1 for the chore and 2 for not being helpful. She didn't care at all.

 

I had to buy her some clothes, she was literally down to one pair of shorts and 2 shirts that fit ok. She hit a growth spurt with a vengence this last month. So we went and bought her a few outfits to get through til the weather turns. We got in the car and she immediately asks when I'm going to buy her shoes. No thanks, no happiness, no nothing for the money just spent, just the expectation of more.

 

She's also my night owl. It is nothing for her to be up until midnight during the week. I make her get up no later than 7:30, but she just gets grumpier and grumpier and I can't get her to go to sleep! She will lay in bed and cry for hours, literally.

 

The other two are kind of rotten, but they're still sweet and helpful more often than not.

 

I seriously don't know what to do with this kid. I limit TV most days to one 30 min. show. Some days though, I just can't stand it anymore and plant them in front of the tv for a few hours. Those days are definately worse. I want to go do fun things - the playground, the mall, the museum, etc. , but it gets to where those things are expected and the break from routine isn't appreciated at all. If they're going to gripe and moan about doing the fun things, I'd rather stay home.

 

I know I can't be the only mom in the world who is dealing with this.

 

Any great ideas, tips or tricks? Or should I start looking for convents?

[Remudamom]

I'd shut her life down in a heartbeat. I mean shut. it. down. No new clothes, no tv, no nothing. Let her sit in her room until she can straighten up. Who cares if she decides to spend it in there crying? Her choice. I'd make this a priority. You can't do other things until she behaves.

 

I have one that could be difficult, but it was evident from the time she was little that there was going to be a battle of the wills. So we started young, and quite frankly, I won. I shudder to think what she'd be like today at 14. I have to constantly battle between not letting her get away with anything and keeping a decent relationship with her. It's hard. It'll be even harder to start at eight.

 

But I'd still shut her down. Just calmly tell her what will and will not be tolerated and stick to it. Don't argue with her.

 

And I'd get on those other two that are "kind of rotten" too. It won't be any easier next year.

 

BTW, if I didn't get any thanks for new clothes I wouldn't leave the parking lot without returning them. Let her sit around in her pajamas.

[bumbledeb]

Don't expect gratitude from your kids - you will be forever doomed to disappointment! :)

 

It is the parent's duty, responsibility or whatever, to provide clothing for their child. It would be nice if the children were appropriately thankful but it's not necessarily a realistic attitude to expect from an eight year old.

 

I believe that children learn best (but not only) from example. Catch her doing something nice or good or even just not awful and thank her. That's all, don't go overboard with praise or rewards, but just a sincere thanks.

 

I'd be tempted to rant and punish too but I think we as the adults in the relationship have a moral duty to not give in to such temptations.

[E_Edgerton]

Have you thought of doing the money thing the other way around? She starts with none and has to earn it as she does chores or activities. Maybe she is taking the money from the start for granted and because she doesn't have to do anything to earn it....she doesn't feel compelled to keep it. I don't have kids, but I am a home tutor and I find that if you give kids the chance to earn something and be proud of earning it...they don't often pass up the opportunity. :)

[Kris]

Don't expect gratitude from your kids - you will be forever doomed to disappointment! :)

 

It is the parent's duty, responsibility or whatever, to provide clothing for their child. It would be nice if the children were appropriately thankful but it's not necessarily a realistic attitude to expect from an eight year old.

 

Kids are selfish -- which is not necessarily a bad thing as it *is* a survival mechanism -- but just as I appreciate the clerk at the store who lifted that heavy item into my car for me, I think kids can learn to appreciate what other people, including parents, do for them. "It's their job" doesn't equate to "I'm entitled" in my view.

 

I believe that children learn best (but not only) from example. Catch her doing something nice or good or even just not awful and thank her. That's all, don't go overboard with praise or rewards, but just a sincere thanks.

 

This always seemed to backfire on me. Maybe I wasn't doing it right. As soon as I "caught him being good" and told him so, it was all downhill from there. Guess he couldn't handle the success. :lol:

 

I'd be tempted to rant and punish too but I think we as the adults in the relationship have a moral duty to not give in to such temptations.

 

I think the point can be made without ranting or punishing, though -- or losing control as the, hopefully, mature adult. :)

[missplacedalaskan]

I like RemudaMom's advice.

[Remudamom]

I don't know about being disappointed with your kids. Mine thank me for meals. And it's not because I rant and punish them if they don't.

 

When we do something as a family, like movies, they thank their dad for the evening before we're back in the car. The girls thank me for clothes, books, whatever when we go shopping. The boys aren't as good as the girls about remembering but they certainly aren't remiss.

 

I think it's sad to expect not to get thanked. You usually get what you expect.

[Kathleen in VA]

I'd shut her life down in a heartbeat. I mean shut. it. down. No new clothes, no tv, no nothing. Let her sit in her room until she can straighten up. Who cares if she decides to spend it in there crying? Her choice. I'd make this a priority. You can't do other things until she behaves.

 

I have one that could be difficult, but it was evident from the time she was little that there was going to be a battle of the wills. So we started young, and quite frankly, I won. I shudder to think what she'd be like today at 14. I have to constantly battle between not letting her get away with anything and keeping a decent relationship with her. It's hard. It'll be even harder to start at eight.

 

But I'd still shut her down. Just calmly tell her what will and will not be tolerated and stick to it. Don't argue with her.

 

And I'd get on those other two that are "kind of rotten" too. It won't be any easier next year.

 

BTW, if I didn't get any thanks for new clothes I wouldn't leave the parking lot without returning them. Let her sit around in her pajamas.

 

:iagree: Gratitude must be taught and this is one way to teach it. I'm sure this would leave an indelible impression. I think gratefulness must be modeled as well. Ds20's first words were "thank-you." This was a result of him finding great pleasure in bringing me every little thing he could get his hands on as a toddler and me responding each and every time by saying thank you. It was a little game he played.:) He heard the words so often that they ended up being the first words he ever spoke.

 

But I think it was also a result of his father and I always thanking each other whenever the salt was passed or the door opened or any other kind act was done. My children are in the habit of giving thanks - they say thanks when I take them to the library or their dad brings home pizza. I don't take credit for this gratefulness personally. I have a sil who brought her six children up the same way and I patterned my child raising methods on her example. I also have had the privilege of going to a wonderful church with lots of wonderful families who also train their children to be thankful. It's great to have that kind of support.

 

If any of my children forgot to say thank you for something, I withheld the item until I heard the words. That was my gentle reminder that thanks were in order, whether they felt thankful or not. If they got sulky because I was withholding the item I wouldn't give it to them at all. Sometimes that meant throwing an ice cream cone in the trash or taking a toy and donating it to the Goodwill. The goal was to make their ungratefulness their problem - not mine. Ungratefulness is rarely an issue around here any more.

 

I might even go so far as to tell her that jar of dimes is the money she is earning to buy her own clothes with. I would make her earn those clothes. Yes, parents have a responsibility to provide for their children, but children have a responsibility to show their parents respect. Being ungrateful is a sign of disrespect. This is a problem that will not go away - she will not outgrow it - it will only grow worse with time.

 

Remember this? (warning: not for little ears)

 

 

 

Yikes! Better nip it and nip it today.

[Storm Bay]

Mean Mom at Your Service

 

Seriously, my kids call me a mean mom a lot. If you rate children from easier to most difficult (and, yes, while all kids have their moments and none are perfect, some are naturally more compliant, etc, than others), not one of mine makes the easier half, and one started off nearly at the most difficult. Because I've been the "mean Mom" my eldest, now 13, while still not an easy child, is far, far easier than she would have been.

 

First off, what I did was to stop all TV watching as TV has been proven to make my kids cranky, especially my eldest, not just that day, but also the next one. When I need a break, I separate all my dc into different rooms and have them do something quiet. I was doing this when my eldest was 8, and my younger two 5 & 3, although my 3 yo did get to watch a bit of TV when I showered back then. Also, I find that the less TV I watch, the less irritable I tend to be, and the more I get done.

 

It is very difficult to have one spouse away, and my 8 yo acts up every time his dad goes away, even if it's just for a couple of days.

 

I have found that incentives don't do much for my dc most of the time. There are exceptions, such as Friday when I told my dc they could go to a free swim time (they usually do lessons or swim team, depending on the dc) if they got all their work done on time. Truth be told, my eldest finished in the van, and my second finished on the poolside after the other two were in the pool, but they finished. Fridays are often the most difficult days to get school done without a great deal of trouble as my dc are often tired by then, despite getting ample sleep. But this is not something we normally do and it didn't cost me anything other than time.

 

Perserverance is a key. Also, I choose my battles. When you have so many, it's often far more successful to work on one issue at a time, but never let one you've worked on go when you move onto the next one. You may wish to prioritize here--which problem bothers you the most? I would shut her life down until these are done if that will help. While that helps with two of my dc, I've learned the hard way that if I do that with my eldest it can backfire as her sport is swimming, and that form of physical activity helps her feel so much better that she's a great deal more pleasant--even when I "force" her to go, which has only happened once or twice because she loves it. ETA She also needs a physical outlet to get rid of stress, and this one works best.

 

All three of my dc are different, and I've had to modify how I parent for each one in order to love them, nurture them, guide them, and discipline them. When I have had to play "mean Mom" (ie strict) and they see the benefits, I try to point it out in a positive way, rather than an "I told you so." A few times my dc have yelled great pearls of wisdom at me when they were angry, but I wait to apply those at a later time. You may get some hints at what will work this way, and it is possible to do so without letting your child rule the roost.

 

Gratitude is taught, and I don't expect most 8 yos to remember that. I often ask my dc if they have something to say after I buy them clothes. I work on manners all the time, and no one gets anything they order me to get, at least not when they order me. If it's a real need that truly must be met then, they have to work on asking me politely without a "lamb's voice". Sometimes they do remember on their own, but not consistently.

 

Also, model the behaviour you want. Not just with manners. e.g. I have had to teach one of mine to be able to laugh at herself. I tell her it's hepful to do that, then model it myself when appropriate--but I never, never, never laugh at her foibles if I can help it, because that hurts. And I try to tell my dc when I see improvement, even if they haven't made it all the way to the goal, because sometimes they've tried but failed.

[Reya]

She goes to her room at the first whine and doesn't come out again until she is in a good mood and ready to be civil. She may go to the bathroom but may not have meals or any drink other than water. The first incivility, and she's back again. If she cries and screams, ignore it. If she damages things in the room, remove them. (Take the opportunity to donate or trash anything you already want to get rid of!) If she ends up with four walls and a bare floor, then that's what she ends up with. That behavior will get VERY boring VERY fast.

 

Any time she's stressing you out, SHE needs to go to her room and stay there until she's ready to behave better. EVERY TIME! If you are consistent and firm, this WILL work. It could take a week, but it will work.

 

And don't stress out while she's gone. She's out of your face, so there's no reason to be bothered by it, right?

 

EDIT: And, BTW, I know alllllllll about this. My DS went through a toy-dumping phase at late 3/4. He knew he was required to clean up all his toys, but sometimes he's empty EVERY SINGLE CONTAINER of toys into a huge pile just to make a pile of it and then would refuse to clean them up. I kid you not, but in our last confrontation over this, he spent SIXTEEN HOURS in the room with the toys avoiding the half-hour it'd take him to clean up with nothing but milk to drink. No food. No blanket for the night. Nothing. Finally, he broke down, cleaned everything in, yes, a half hour, went on his way, had a good meal, and never pulled that again. Most parents would have given in way before sixteen hours. And my DS would have steamrollered over them and gotten everything he wanted when and how he wanted it. Now, we're having a spurt of whining, so he's becoming very familiar with his room once again and is even getting spankings for the first time in quite a while. The twig has to be bent over and over and over again....

 

I really am a default-yes mommy, BTW. :-) I just don't tolerate slacking off, defiance, or whining. *shudders* I loathe whining!

[bumbledeb]

I don't know about being disappointed with your kids. Mine thank me for meals. And it's not because I rant and punish them if they don't.

 

When we do something as a family, like movies, they thank their dad for the evening before we're back in the car. The girls thank me for clothes, books, whatever when we go shopping. The boys aren't as good as the girls about remembering but they certainly aren't remiss.

 

I think it's sad to expect not to get thanked. You usually get what you expect.

I'm a newbie here so sorry that I don't know how to do the quotes thing (I've tried but haven't figured it out yet).

 

I did not say, or mean to imply, that one should be disappointed with one's children - that would not be a pleasant way to live.

 

I also did not say, or mean to imply, that one should expect not to be thanked, that would also be a very negative way of viewing the relationship.

 

I believe it is possible to cultivate a very happy, positive relationship with polite, loving children by being a happy, positive, polite and loving parent.

[Remudamom]

:iagree: Gratitude must be taught and this is one way to teach it. I'm sure this would leave an indelible impression. I think gratefulness must be modeled as well. Ds20's first words were "thank-you." This was a result of him finding great pleasure in bringing me every little thing he could get his hands on as a toddler and me responding each and every time by saying thank you. It was a little game he played.:) He heard the words so often that they ended up being the first words he ever spoke.

 

But I think it was also a result of his father and I always thanking each other whenever the salt was passed or the door opened or any other kind act was done. My children are in the habit of giving thanks - they say thanks when I take them to the library or their dad brings home pizza. I don't take credit for this gratefulness personally. I have a sil who brought her six children up the same way and I patterned my child raising methods on her example. I also have had the privilege of going to a wonderful church with lots of wonderful families who also train their children to be thankful. It's great to have that kind of support.

 

If any of my children forgot to say thank you for something, I withheld the item until I heard the words. That was my gentle reminder that thanks were in order, whether they felt thankful or not. If they got sulky because I was withholding the item I wouldn't give it to them at all. Sometimes that meant throwing an ice cream cone in the trash or taking a toy and donating it to the Goodwill. The goal was to make their ungratefulness their problem - not mine. Ungratefulness is rarely an issue around here any more.

 

I might even go so far as to tell her that jar of dimes is the money she is earning to buy her own clothes with. I would make her earn those clothes. Yes, parents have a responsibility to provide for their children, but children have a responsibility to show their parents respect. Being ungrateful is a sign of disrespect. This is a problem that will not go away - she will not outgrow it - it will only grow worse with time.

 

Remember this? (warning: not for little ears)

 

 

 

Yikes! Better nip it and nip it today.

 

Since I can't rep you I'll just start a fan club for you!

 

That video is hysterical. Is it really real?

To be honest, my parents spoiled me rotten. I had three cars before I was

20. But I can't imagine acting like that.....it was always "Yes sir/mam" at our house. We were not disrespectful. It didn't fly.

[Elaine]

Have you thought of doing the money thing the other way around? She starts with none and has to earn it as she does chores or activities. Maybe she is taking the money from the start for granted and because she doesn't have to do anything to earn it....she doesn't feel compelled to keep it. I don't have kids, but I am a home tutor and I find that if you give kids the chance to earn something and be proud of earning it...they don't often pass up the opportunity. :)

 

Hey, that's a great piece of advice.:001_smile:

[Kathleen in VA]

Since I can't rep you I'll just start a fan club for you!

 

That video is hysterical. Is it really real?

To be honest, my parents spoiled me rotten. I had three cars before I was

20. But I can't imagine acting like that.....it was always "Yes sir/mam" at our house. We were not disrespectful. It didn't fly.

 

Yes, the video is real. If you look around youtube some more you will find longer versions. The mom actually tells the dealer to take the car away - good for her!!! I hope she never buys her another one.:D I chose the version that was the least offensive to my sensibilities. Oh, and thanks for the fan club. Maybe it should be a mutual admiration society.:)

[Jenn in Mo]

It's not necessary to be mean, just be a woman of your word. If you say something, treat it like a vow. If you are going to give in and let them do something that you just said "no" to, then don't say "no" in the first place. If you aren't going to make them do what you just told them to do, don't bother telling them to do it in the first place. If you say it, make it so. Your word is law. It is not optional. Do not even enter into discussion about it. When you get the rant, you could say, "You might have a very valid argument, but because you are speaking disrespectfully to me, we will not discuss it."

 

I agree strongly with the post about giving the dimes the other way - earning rather than subtracting. Perhaps make it a Sunday night tradition to go over their checklists and tally up how much each has earned, giving the money once a week.

 

It is absolutely possible -and necessary- to discipline for attitude. In fact, this is much more important, imo, than disciplining for actions. Sometimes those actions came from a sincere desire to do something good but stuff went awry. A child can demonstrate good actions while demonstrating a disrespectful attitude.

 

Getting angry is not necessary at all. Just remember who's boss. Don't reason and argue. Say it once. Keep your cool. Stick to your guns.

 

Gratitude is necessary. A simple reply might be:

"Fine. If you don't like these, we'll return them right away."

"Fine. You don't like your dinner, you don't have to eat."

"I'm sorry you don't like it. Unfortunately, your tone and attitude are not kind and you'll need to take them to your bedroom so that no one else need suffer."

"I understand you don't want to obey, but it wasn't a question. Feed the dog."

 

Obeying isn't optional, regardless of whether or not they get paid. In my house, they can choose whether they will get paid for the job or not, but they can't choose whether they'll DO the job or not.

 

You can do it! Nerves of steel! And you've got us for your cheerleaders! Go, Mama, Go!!!!:thumbup::thumbup:

[Kanga]

The girls thank me for clothes, books, whatever when we go shopping. The boys aren't as good as the girls about remembering but they certainly aren't remiss.

 

I think it's sad to expect not to get thanked. You usually get what you expect.

 

My ds thanks me profusely for not making him try on clothes!:001_smile:

 

You need to channel your inner alphamare! ;) I ask politely the first time and they are expected to respond cheerfully to the request. If they do not respond, I tell them firmly. No response = discipline! If they respond (even the first time) with attitude, then they are not allowed to do what I ask them to do - I send them to their room. They are not allowed to do whatever it is (school or chores) until they can do so cheerfully.

 

My dc ask me politely for lessons and thank me afterwards. They thank me for dinner, they thank me for purchasing things for them, and they thank me for special days. But I thank them and praise them a lot. I thank them for doing chores and heap praise if they did them without being asked or voluntarily did a siblings chores, etc.

 

My dh has been deployed multiple times over my dc's lifetimes. Dad being gone is not an excuse for a bad attitude or bad behavior. Instead it is an opportunity to be helpful and loving. Or as one of my friends used to tell her children, "it is okay to have a sad attitude and it is okay to have a mad attitude, but it is not okay to have a bad attitude!"

[Jenn in Mo]

Oh. Wow!!! After watching the YouTube video, I watched the next one, with her explaining what was "really" happening and how she's not really a bad person. This is just awful! And hilarious!

 

Yes, decisions are just so hard, aren't they?:lol:

[Perry]

I think the chore system you're using is allowing them to have the choice not to do something. I'd stop that system and have a firm discussion. Chores get done, period. Be clear about expectations and follow through. If the chore is to feed the dog, she feeds the dog. Nothing else happens until that dog is fed, even if it means you have to hold her hand every step of the way. It's a pain, because for awhile, it's more work for you. But it pays off in the long run. I wouldn't have expected my 8 year olds to do all their chores on their own without occasional reminders. Eight is awfully young. However, I would not put up with attitude.

 

I don't tolerate whining. My middle daughter was a champion whiner, but she only whined to her dad, never to me. It drove him crazy, and she knew it. She didn't whine to me, because I didn't give her any attention for it. Finally, I told him to say "No Whining" once, then ignore her COMPLETELY while she was using that tone. Don't look at her, don't respond, don't ask her to repeat it in a nice voice- just pretend she isn't there. As soon as she starts talking in a regular voice, acknowledge her and give positive attention. Within a couple days, she was cured. Every once in a while, she'd start up again, and it would get worse until he remembered to ignore it. It always worked, if he could just remember what to do.

 

 

 

She's 8

 

I had to buy her some clothes, she was literally down to one pair of shorts and 2 shirts that fit ok. She hit a growth spurt with a vengence this last month. So we went and bought her a few outfits to get through til the weather turns. We got in the car and she immediately asks when I'm going to buy her shoes. No thanks, no happiness, no nothing for the money just spent, just the expectation of more.

 

 

This seems age appropriate to me. She probably had a list in her head of what she needed, and shoes were next on the list. If I needed shoes, I'd be wondering when we were going to get them, too.

 

She's awfully young. Teaching gratitude and manners is a long term process, and it's normal for 8 year olds to be a little selfish. I'd just give a gentle reminder that thanks are in order.

[Kathleen in VA]

Oh. Wow!!! After watching the YouTube video, I watched the next one, with her explaining what was "really" happening and how she's not really a bad person. This is just awful! And hilarious!

 

Yes, decisions are just so hard, aren't they?:lol:

 

Actually, that's another girl. Not the Audrey of the video I posted. Wow! That means there's more than one. Oh.my.word. This is starting to get really, really scary.

[eternalknot]

I think the chore system you're using is allowing them to have the choice not to do something. I'd stop that system and have a firm discussion. Chores get done, period. Be clear about expectations and follow through.

 

 

:iagree: In our home, everyone contributes something. Those that can, work and contribute financially. Those that cannot work contribute in ways that they can, including help around the house and being serious about studying. Some things we all do, or are all expected to do at some point, simply because they need to get done. In that same vein, we give allowances (sharing the family's earnings) but we do not tie them to chores (sharing the family's resources).

 

I'm a single mom, and count an 8 year old among my little herd. I completely emphasize with your day to day experiences, most especially the trying to keep on top of laundry. dishes. schoolwork. LIFE. with no other adult hands to help. I have had days where I have my own little temper tantrums and show no gratitude for the things my kids do (or attempt to do with the best of intentions, but end up being more work for me). I'm not proud; it simply happens on stressful days. Dad being gone can be stressful, but it is still no excuse to sulk. Everyone needs to help out so the home (and family) can run smoothly and successfully.

 

I try not to engage in battles of wills or arguments. I tell my kids that we don't always have to enjoy doing our chores (I can't stand washing laundry, i.e.) but nobody is asking us to enjoy them ... they are things that simply must be done, so we do them. We don't have to do backflips, but we also don't need to groan and whine.

 

When my 8 year old fusses when asked to do something, I offer two choices: you can do what you were asked to do (feed the dog), or you can do my job instead (feed the family, do the dishes, etc - whatever I'd have to stop doing to tend to his chore of feeding the dog). I give to the count of ten for a decision, and either we switch chores OR I go on about my business with the expectation that he will then go and do his. I'm especially insistent about him feeding the cats; they are completely dependent upon us and cannot go feed themselves (the way he could hit up the pantry if he were not being fed by me).

 

I did want to suggest you look deeper, too. For my son, all of the "Thank you" and praises in the world don't really do it for him. I could say it after every contribution he made, but it doesn't hold the same weight to him as does my SHOWING him I'm appreciative. For instance, he needs to be shown my appreciation through my actions. I recognize this because I'm a lot like him. Words mean little to me; actions mean everything.

 

His dad was different; his dad needed verbal affirmation to feel truly appreciated. I could do all kinds of things to show my appreciation, but it didn't hold nearly the same weight (to him) as it would if I simply said the words, "Thank you." He just had different needs. It wasn't that we didn't appreciate him, we just traded on a different currency. Once we realized that and were able to make concentrated efforts to 'pay' each other in the currency we respectively needed, ... things got much better!

 

Maybe your daughter and you just have different ways of showing gratitude, and different needs in being SHOWN gratitude?

 

:grouphug: I know issues of entitlement and expectations (on their part) are challenging, and especially so under the stress of running a home solo.

[Kris]

Oh. Wow!!! After watching the YouTube video, I watched the next one, with her explaining what was "really" happening and how she's not really a bad person. This is just awful! And hilarious!

 

Yes, decisions are just so hard, aren't they?:lol:

 

Whoa -- that girl and I would *not* get along!

[PeterPan]

Definitely agree on tossing or heavily modifying the dimes thing. I would follow up on things immediately. As far as the grumpy, not in bed early enough thing, I'd give her some Sleepy Time tea an hour before you want her in bed. I'd also try feeding her more protein and a large salad for supper. You said she's growing, and my dd (who also grows lot, lol) eats more than I do. And I'm pregnant!! Their nutritional needs are quite high when growing, and it's hard to sleep with an empty tummy. My dd, age 9, can eat 8 oz. of meat (poultry or fish) plus a cup of beans plus a large salad for supper. And that's just supper!

 

Because your dh is gone a lot, you would do well to schedule some breaks, some time apart, for the two of you. They can be things during the school day that your dd perceives as rewards, such as going to visit an older lady who will teach her how to knit or taking a tennis class. You might even find someone in a mentoring position who will take her once a week for 4 hours to do something, anything. Just because you're homeschooling doesn't mean you're saying you're the only one who can influence her. Because my dd has been an only for so long, the dynamic gets really funny and strained. (or maybe I'm the only imperfect one here?) Those breaks, times where she is with other people in a mentoring way, are important for us. I also find that it's easy for my relationship to only be negative with her (not good enough, not fast enough, stop dawdling, clean up, stop complaining) so there's never anything positive. If a dh is around, he can fulfill that bad cop role and let you be good cop for a while. If not, you have to purposely take off the bad cop hat and find moments, even briefly, where you can be good cop. At this age my dd appreciates a board game or me reading aloud a fairy tale as much as anything.

 

And no, extreme gratitude would be unusual at this age.

[TXMomof4]

Alright, the dimes thing is going - well, changing. We'll tally at bedtime how much they've earned for the day. See, I was trying to not tie the allowance to chores so much, but that's what it has ended up being. Well, maybe we'll just scrap it all together.

 

They're cleaning their rooms right now. They have a list to follow, so it isn't too overwhelming. Start with the stuffed animals, then the books, then dirty clothes, then trash - done!

 

I know I'm a pushover sometimes. I catch myself giving in on something and wonder what on earth I'm doing.

 

I'll be working on C-O-N-S-I-S-T-E-N-C-Y this next week - and every week after that for the rest of my life probably.

 

Thanks for listening to me complain. You know, kids never misbehave when you're around other people, so I mention my concerns to my mom or a friend and they think I'm nuts. But it's been getting steadily worse for the last month and I get to about lunchtime and seriously want to start knocking heads. It HAS to get better or I'm going to be bald before dh gets home.

[MeanestMomInMidwest]

as you can see, I am already a mean mom. I'm in a contest. I tell my kids this so often it is a family joke that even the neighbors are in on. Feel free to start your own regional contest.

The ladies here are so wise and have given tons of great suggestions that I might even add to my own toolbelt. My dh is gone 20-23 days each month, so I *kinda* know how it is, but not to the extent that you're dealing with. My kids are younger too, and I'm still working on areas that I let them slide.

My one catch-phrase that I use is "I am not your royal servant" I do not pick up after anyone but myself...I mean they buss their own dishes, pick up toys from the front room, etc. Their rooms are another story. I shut the doors. If something is left out in the main house all I have to say is, "Oh, dd, did you hire a royal servant who is going to come clean up your mess?" If mess is not cleaned up then she is no longer allowed to do whatever it was she was doing that made the mess for a certain amount of time (1 week, 1 month, whatever fits).

Hang in there....we're in it for the long haul. Sometimes just seem longer than others. :001_smile:

[tibbyl]

I had an acquaintance who refused to allow her children to eat until they had fed the family's companion animals.

[PariSarah]

It's not necessary to be mean, just be a woman of your word. If you say something, treat it like a vow. If you are going to give in and let them do something that you just said "no" to, then don't say "no" in the first place. If you aren't going to make them do what you just told them to do, don't bother telling them to do it in the first place. If you say it, make it so. Your word is law. It is not optional. Do not even enter into discussion about it. When you get the rant, you could say, "You might have a very valid argument, but because you are speaking disrespectfully to me, we will not discuss it."

 

Yes, beautifully put!!!!

 

I have two parenting mottos. The second is "Say what you mean, and mean what you say." And I mean by that exactly what Jenn says here--not making threats or rules I don't intend to keep, not saying things I don't mean, not making promises lightly, etc.

 

And the first is, "We do not negotiate with terrorists."

 

Say it out loud. Mean it. Own it. Grrrr!!

[Aubrey]

:iagree: Gratitude must be taught and this is one way to teach it. I'm sure this would leave an indelible impression. I think gratefulness must be modeled as well. Ds20's first words were "thank-you." This was a result of him finding great pleasure in bringing me every little thing he could get his hands on as a toddler and me responding each and every time by saying thank you. It was a little game he played.:) He heard the words so often that they ended up being the first words he ever spoke.

 

But I think it was also a result of his father and I always thanking each other whenever the salt was passed or the door opened or any other kind act was done. My children are in the habit of giving thanks - they say thanks when I take them to the library or their dad brings home pizza. I don't take credit for this gratefulness personally. I have a sil who brought her six children up the same way and I patterned my child raising methods on her example. I also have had the privilege of going to a wonderful church with lots of wonderful families who also train their children to be thankful. It's great to have that kind of support.

 

If any of my children forgot to say thank you for something, I withheld the item until I heard the words. That was my gentle reminder that thanks were in order, whether they felt thankful or not. If they got sulky because I was withholding the item I wouldn't give it to them at all. Sometimes that meant throwing an ice cream cone in the trash or taking a toy and donating it to the Goodwill. The goal was to make their ungratefulness their problem - not mine. Ungratefulness is rarely an issue around here any more.

 

I might even go so far as to tell her that jar of dimes is the money she is earning to buy her own clothes with. I would make her earn those clothes. Yes, parents have a responsibility to provide for their children, but children have a responsibility to show their parents respect. Being ungrateful is a sign of disrespect. This is a problem that will not go away - she will not outgrow it - it will only grow worse with time.

 

Remember this? (warning: not for little ears)

 

 

 

Yikes! Better nip it and nip it today.

 

:iagree: w/ you & Remuda, too. I think gratitude is the basic foundation of *everything* we want our dc to learn & the opposite will be entitlement. We taught our dc that nothing belongs to them--everything is the Lord's, & we owe him our gratitude.

 

The other day, ds7 told me that he prayed a prayer of thanks to the Lord for his chores while he was putting clean laundry away. (Just a disclaimer: this is not typical of ds. He does the slouchy, whiney thing, too, lol!)

 

The thing is, we have a point of reference when he gets whiney & complainy. "Who are you thinking about?" is usually the way it's phrased here when somebody gets selfish, & the rewards (in attitude) have been great.

[Binalina]

Alright, the dimes thing is going - well, changing. We'll tally at bedtime how much they've earned for the day. See, I was trying to not tie the allowance to chores so much, but that's what it has ended up being. Well, maybe we'll just scrap it all together.

 

They're cleaning their rooms right now. They have a list to follow, so it isn't too overwhelming. Start with the stuffed animals, then the books, then dirty clothes, then trash - done!

 

I know I'm a pushover sometimes. I catch myself giving in on something and wonder what on earth I'm doing.

 

I'll be working on C-O-N-S-I-S-T-E-N-C-Y this next week - and every week after that for the rest of my life probably.

 

Thanks for listening to me complain. You know, kids never misbehave when you're around other people, so I mention my concerns to my mom or a friend and they think I'm nuts. But it's been getting steadily worse for the last month and I get to about lunchtime and seriously want to start knocking heads. It HAS to get better or I'm going to be bald before dh gets home.

 

 

Oh I have loved this thread. Thank you all for the great advice I've also gleaned. My children also do great with lists. I made a list for each of them for morning routine and they follow it to the letter with enthusiasm (not typical) Even after they have memorized the list - they still love to use it. I have one who gets a bit upset if anyone is preventing her from following her list to the letter :laugh: (ie number four is brush your teeth and you are standing in front of the sink)

[Storm Bay]

You know, kids never misbehave when you're around other people, so I mention my concerns to my mom or a friend and they think I'm nuts.

 

You haven't met my children;)! They do disobey sometimes when others are present--they are who they are wherever they are (some kids are different at home than when out.)

[Storm Bay]

Yes, beautifully put!!!!

 

I have two parenting mottos. The second is "Say what you mean, and mean what you say." And I mean by that exactly what Jenn says here--not making threats or rules I don't intend to keep, not saying things I don't mean, not making promises lightly, etc.

 

And the first is, "We do not negotiate with terrorists."

 

Say it out loud. Mean it. Own it. Grrrr!!

 

Hmm, we already have the second, but the terrorist one is one I think I'll add.

[keptwoman]

Some great ideas here!

 

I really agree with removing completely the connection between money and chores. Chores are something that must be done, period. While the idea of being paid for what you do is good, it's pointless if it's not providing motivation. The reality is that chores are part of living in a family.

 

Just wanted to add what we do. It's from a parenting book written by a NZ woman.

 

It's called Ask, Tell, Act and it works with any age.

You want a child to do something.

Ask them: C will you please go and feed the cat

Wait 10 seconds

If they are showing no signs of obedience

Tell: Go right over to them, no yelling from the other side of the room. Right up there in their faces. C I have told you to feed the cat, please do it now.

Wait 10 seconds

If they are showing no signs of obedience

Act: Please go to your room until you are willing to do what is required of you as part of the family.

 

For older kids who won't be sent to their room(although all of mine will) you put them in virtual time out and don't respond or do anything for them until they have done what is required of them.

 

The thing I love about this for my youngers is it's all dealt with before they have had the time to build up a head of steam.