Dumb question: What is a libertarian?

[VaKim]

A post in the thread about the Uncle Eric books warned that he was a libertarian. I have a sort of idea what that means, but am too lazy this morning to look it up, and never have any luck in finding anything short and to the point when I look things up anyway.

 

So, what is a libertarian, exactly, and why is it considered "bad" by so many people? Or, if you think it is good, why is it good? (I've only ever seen "warnings" about it, so it seems most think it is bad.) :)

[Soph the vet]

Here is what I could find:

According to the Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy:

Libertarians are committed to the belief that individuals, and not states or groups of any other kind, are both ontologically and normatively primary; that individuals have rights against certain kinds of forcible interference on the part of others; that liberty, understood as non-interference, is the only thing that can be legitimately demanded of others as a matter of legal or political right; that robust property rights and the economic liberty that follows from their consistent recognition are of central importance in respecting individual liberty; that social order is not at odds with but develops out of individual liberty; that the only proper use of coercion is defensive or to rectify an error; that governments are bound by essentially the same moral principles as individuals; and that most existing and historical governments have acted improperly insofar as they have utilized coercion for plunder, aggression, redistribution, and other purposes beyond the protection of individual liberty.

[5]

 

 

 

 

[laylamcb]

Here is a statement from the Libertarian Party that's pretty straightforward. Here is a statement about the CATO Institute, one of the best-known libertarian think-tanks. Here is a table of contents for David Boaz' book The Libertarian Reader. You can read each part if you're so inclined, but I think that the titles of the sections give you a sense of the general tenets of libertarianism. And here is an excerpt from Boaz' primer on libertarianism that explains why the name of the philosophy is apt.

 

And finally, the people's choice ;): About.com gives its definition of libertarianism.

 

My dad was a libertarian. :001_smile:

 

Good luck! Hopefully some actual libertarians will chime in. Mama Lynx? Am I remembering correctly that you are a libertarian?

[Liberty]

Well, I am a libertarian (hence, my username), though I'm a small "L" libertarian (meaning, I'm not a member of the Libertarian party, nor do I necessarily always vote for their candidates).

 

I didn't follow the other links (so, sorry if this is a repeat), but to put it in my own words I believe in personal freedoms and free markets with as little government interference as possible. As long as I am not harming someone else's person or property, I should be left alone, basically. Some libertarians go so far as to say, thus, that prostitution and drugs should be legalized (or at least decriminilized). Also, I'm a pro-life libertarian, meaning that I believe these liberties extend to the unborn also (for me, the life of the unborn is equal in value to the life--and choices--of the mother, except if the mother's life is in danger), but I'm probably not a typical libertarian in this belief.

 

Also, there are two sets of liberties: social (abortion, drugs, gay marriage, etc...) and economic (lower taxes, ending corporate welfare, free trade, etc...). The Democratic Party normally embraces social liberties, but not ecnomic. The Republican Party normally embraces economic liberties, but not social. The Libertarian Party embraces both.

 

If you wonder whether you are also a libertarian (many people are and just don't realize it), here's the world's smallest political quiz:

 

http://www.theadvocates.org/quizp/index.html

[Jugglin'5]

No, you're not alone Liberty. I'm a small "l' , pro-life libertarian, too.:)

[Carrie12345]

I consider myself a social libertarian who feels that government and society has made economic libertarianism a moral impossibility. Which is why I'm a registered Democrat.

[Guest Virginia Dawn]

No' date=' you're not alone Liberty. I'm a small "l' , pro-life libertarian, too.:)[/quote']

 

Me too. :001_smile:

 

There are others on the board as well.

 

Libertarians are not any more "bad" than Republicans or Democrats.

 

A libertarian usually believes that according to the constitution the federal government is not given the power to make certain decisions about individuals lives. That power is given to the states and decisions are made by the people. For example, even a pro-life libertarian may belief that the federal government has no power and no business making any kind of legislation at all regarding abortion, for or against. However, states or communities could make a decision not to allow it in their area.

 

Many libertarian have their pet issues like the right to bear arms or the right to have control over their personal property, as long as it does not endanger anyone else's rights to life and liberty.

 

If you are homeschooling, you may believe that the federal government has no business telling you how to educate your child and that the federal department of education is unconstitutional, along with many other "departments."

 

 

Thomas Jefferson was very libertarian in his politics. :001_smile:

[Jenny in Atl]

Also, there are two sets of liberties: social (abortion, drugs, gay marriage, etc...) and economic (lower taxes, ending corporate welfare, free trade, etc...). The Democratic Party normally embraces social liberties, but not ecnomic. The Republican Party normally embraces economic liberties, but not social. The Libertarian Party embraces both.

 

If you wonder whether you are also a libertarian (many people are and just don't realize it), here's the world's smallest political quiz:

 

http://www.theadvocates.org/quizp/index.html

 

 

 

I'm a big "L" Libertarian. :D

Not too many of us.

[Mama Lynx]

A post in the thread about the Uncle Eric books warned that he was a libertarian. I have a sort of idea what that means, but am too lazy this morning to look it up, and never have any luck in finding anything short and to the point when I look things up anyway.

 

So, what is a libertarian, exactly, and why is it considered "bad" by so many people? Or, if you think it is good, why is it good? (I've only ever seen "warnings" about it, so it seems most think it is bad.) :)

 

Like many others have posted, I'm a small "l" libertarian. You've gotten some great answers, so I won't repeat them. I don't think I've heard libertarianisn considered "bad." Kooky, yes, but not "bad."

[jmgconner]

Another pro-life, little "l" libertarian. In short, the government should butt out.

[VaKim]

Thanks for all these great answers and sites! Still looking through them. I only said it seemed like people thought it was "bad" because I always see people "warning" you that the Uncle Eric books (which I have, but haven't read yet) lean that way. As if it is a thing to be cautious of. :)

 

Also, there are two sets of liberties: social (abortion, drugs, gay marriage, etc...) and economic (lower taxes, ending corporate welfare, free trade, etc...). The Democratic Party normally embraces social liberties, but not ecnomic. The Republican Party normally embraces economic liberties, but not social. The Libertarian Party embraces both.

 

If you wonder whether you are also a libertarian (many people are and just don't realize it), here's the world's smallest political quiz:

 

http://www.theadvocates.org/quizp/index.html

 

 

 

I'm a big "L" Libertarian. :D

Not too many of us.

 

Neat quiz! Here are my results:

 

Your PERSONAL issues Score is 90%.

Your ECONOMIC issues Score is 90%.

 

According to your answers, the political group that agrees with you most is...

 

 

 

LIBERTARIANS support maximum liberty in both personal and

economic matters. They advocate a much smaller government; one

that is limited to protecting individuals from coercion and violence.

Libertarians tend to embrace individual responsibility, oppose

government bureaucracy and taxes, promote private charity, tolerate

diverse lifestyles, support the free market, and defend civil liberties.

 

 

So I guess I kinda must lean that way too. Don't reckon I'll have a bit of trouble with the Uncle Eric books when we get to them. :D

I'm pro-life too, by the way. Is that not compatible with libertarianism for some reason??

[Jugglin'5]

I scored 80% social, 100% economic.

[hsmamainva]

Nifty quiz!!!

 

Here are my results:

 

Your PERSONAL issues Score is 100%.

Your ECONOMIC issues Score is 40%.

 

According to your answers, the political group that agrees with you most is...

 

LIBERALS usually embrace freedom of choice in personal matters, but tend to support significant government control of the economy. They generally support a "government-funded safety net" to help the disadvantaged, and advocate strict regulation of business. Liberals tend to favor environmental regulations, defend civil liberties and free expression, support government action to promote equality, and tolerate diverse lifestyles

 

Wow....what a shocker! :D :lol:

[Greta]

I'm pro-life too, by the way. Is that not compatible with libertarianism for some reason??

 

I'm not a Libertarian, but I "dabbled" in it for a couple of years. In my experience (which was not on these boards) the vast majority of Libertarians I interacted with were pro-choice. Their reasoning is that the principle of keeping the government out of people's personal lives included keeping it out of people's reproductive choices -- and that the government forcing a woman to carry a pregnancy to term against her will would be the worst abuse of government power. Maybe there are some pro-choice Libertarians here who can explain it better than I have. But I think the general idea is that a person's first and most fundamental right is to the control of their own body.

[Jugglin'5]

Yes, and the pro-life libertarian would respond that the right to life is the most basic, fundamental human freedom that there is.:001_smile:

[Frankie]

Great quiz, Jenny, thanks for sharing it.

 

I come out as a left-leaning centrist. I always describe myself as being middle of the road, so it pegged me.

 

Now without taking time to check out the libertarian links, isn't it also true that they believe in a flat-out tax for everyone? Instead of having tax tiers, they believe that everyone should pay, say, 10%? (I'm making up the number.) Am I correct on that?

 

(I have believed that since I was a teenager, that we should all just pay the same. It just seems so logical and easy to me. lol)

 

Frankie

 

Also, there are two sets of liberties: social (abortion, drugs, gay marriage, etc...) and economic (lower taxes, ending corporate welfare, free trade, etc...). The Democratic Party normally embraces social liberties, but not ecnomic. The Republican Party normally embraces economic liberties, but not social. The Libertarian Party embraces both.

 

If you wonder whether you are also a libertarian (many people are and just don't realize it), here's the world's smallest political quiz:

 

http://www.theadvocates.org/quizp/index.html

 

 

 

I'm a big "L" Libertarian. :D

Not too many of us.

[Jami]

Another quick question, for the pro-life libertarians here...

 

Does the Constitutional Party cover the bases for most of you on social and economic freedoms? Or are there still significant differences between the Const. party and the Libertarian party other than the degree of social freedoms?

[Greta]

Yes' date=' and the pro-life libertarian would respond that the right to life is the most basic, fundamental human freedom that there is.:001_smile:[/quote']

 

Oh, I certainly understand, Jugglin'. I was just attempting to show (and I think I did a poor job of it) that a pro-choice Libertarian might then pose the question "does the right to life give one rights over another person's body?"

[kalanamak]

why is it considered "bad" by so many people? Or, if you think it is good, why is it good? (I've only ever seen "warnings" about it, so it seems most think it is bad.) :)

 

I no longer bump into people who talk about politics, but back when I WAS around people who talked politics (in college and when I lived in NYC), I met all of 5 Libertarians. Their personalities did not sell me on the idea. Two of them told me their IQ. All of them had a "more money for me and less money for those lazy idiots" attitude. They were all single males under 30, and 4 of them were short. I did not meet them at the same time, but spread out over about 6 years.

 

 

As Simone de Beauvior said about l*sb*ans "it is the noisy zealots that get our attention" (I paraphrase). All of these men wore their politics on their sleeves, and their basic premise was not pretty. Perhaps others have met such people and therefore have a negative view of the party. It gave me the feeling I couldn't wait to be older and thus have more mature peers (and, oh, how I've seen that hope dashed!).

 

Just a thought about why you might have heard negative opinions.

[Mama Lynx]

I'm not a Libertarian, but I "dabbled" in it for a couple of years. In my experience (which was not on these boards) the vast majority of Libertarians I interacted with were pro-choice. Their reasoning is that the principle of keeping the government out of people's personal lives included keeping it out of people's reproductive choices -- and that the government forcing a woman to carry a pregnancy to term against her will would be the worst abuse of government power. Maybe there are some pro-choice Libertarians here who can explain it better than I have. But I think the general idea is that a person's first and most fundamental right is to the control of their own body.

 

Yes, that is basically it. I do not think it is the government's business to be involved in legislating abortion, or many other things. That is why I am pro-choice. I support faith-based and other organizations to help educate and support women to make choices other than abortion. I myself would never have one, and I counsel my sons to realize that having sex means being willing to take on the responsibility of parenting a child. But I do not think the government should be involved in these choices.

[Jami]

and 4 of them were short.

 

:lol:

 

Beware the height-challenged ones!

[SheilaZ]

In a utopian society, I would be a Libertarian. (I'm 80% 100% on the test.) But in the real world, I'm a libertarian/Republican.

I want much less government and way more personal responsibilty.

DH and I are happy to serve our community. We donate to charity. We don't generally care what other people are doing as long as they aren't forcing us to go along with it. And we take care of ourselves and our friends.

[OnTheBrink]

I tested as a right-leaning libertarian. And, I'm pro-life.

[Jugglin'5]

Oh, I certainly understand, Jugglin'. I was just attempting to show (and I think I did a poor job of it) that a pro-choice Libertarian might then pose the question "does the right to life give one rights over another person's body?"

 

Hey , don't worry! I wasn't trying to slam you either.:)

 

ETA: I don't know the percentages, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if most Libertarians were pro-choice. That is why I only vote Libertarian occasionally, because many of the candidates are pro-choice. To me, the foundation of our other freedoms fail if that basic freedom is not protected, so it is a major issue for me. I also can't in good conscience vote for Bob Barr because of personal character issues. I agree with much of the Constitution Party's platform, except that I am for drug legalization (not because I want everyone to party down, man, but because many of our day-to-day civil liberties have been curtailed in the name of fighting the Drug War -no knock raids, anyone?).

[KidsHappen]

I have voted Libertarian in the last four elections, maybe longer. Personal rights and freedoms are the most important issues to me. I will not be voting for this party in this election. I am not at all impressed with Barr - his politics or character. Even though Ron Paul was registered with the Republican party, he is in fact both a libertarian and a constitutionalist. I agree with him on almost every issue. I think that if he had originally run on the Libertarian ticket he would have had a much better chance. At this point, I have absolutely no idea who I will be voting for.

 

This party is very similar to homeschooler in that it is comprised of a very wide spectrum of people who only have this one particular subject in common. I also believe that a lot more people would be libertarians if only they knew what it means and stands for. In my opinion it represents the American ideas as they were first articulated.

 

Another good and fairly short primer on this subject is What it Means to be a Libertarian by Charles Murray.

[Guest Katia]

Good quiz and interesting results.

 

My personal issues score was 80%

 

My economic issues score was 90%

 

It had me as a flat-out Libertarian. Who knew? I thought I was a 'moderate'.

 

My parents were Democrats (union workers) and my dh is a Republican, and I fall somewhere in the middle, lol! I'm registered as independent, but it's nice to know I have an actual title now. :001_smile:

[Murphy101]

The Librarian ;)

 

We own and enjoy both.

[genie]

I also believe that a lot more people would be libertarians if only they knew what it means and stands for. In my opinion it represents the American ideas as they were first articulated.

 

 

I completely agree with this. I didn't know what the libertarian party stood for until a couple of months ago. Prior to that, I had been struggling with my inability to strongly support either of the two main parties. When I heard the basic ideals of the libertarian party, it was like light bulb went off. "Yes! That's what I agree with. It makes so much sense! Why isn't this more popular?"

 

But I think the two main problems are that 1) People feel like they'd be wasting their vote with a third-party candidate and 2) They simply haven't really investigated other parties. I'm guilty of both.

 

So I can't say officially that I'm libertarian, although the quiz showed me to be 100% social 70% economic. But I do feel that as a whole it represents my desires better than either of the two main parties.

[kalanamak]

 

It had me as a flat-out Libertarian. Who knew? I thought I was a 'moderate'.

 

 

It was a pleasant quiz. I'm at the intersect of centrist, liberal and libertarian! I'd love to see a longer quiz, maybe with some hypothetical situations.

[Mama Lynx]

I have voted Libertarian in the last four elections, maybe longer. Personal rights and freedoms are the most important issues to me. I will not be voting for this party in this election. I am not at all impressed with Barr - his politics or character. Even though Ron Paul was registered with the Republican party, he is in fact both a libertarian and a constitutionalist. I agree with him on almost every issue. I think that if he had originally run on the Libertarian ticket he would have had a much better chance. At this point, I have absolutely no idea who I will be voting for.

 

 

 

It's frustrating. I usually vote Libertarian, other third party, or Republican, depending on several factors.

 

I'm not at all impressed with Barr, either, and I really, really wanted to be able to vote Lib this time around.

 

I have heard that Barr is now trying to get Ron Paul to replace his VP pick. Would that tip the scales for you? Or is Barr himself too much of an obstacle?

[KidsHappen]

It's frustrating. I usually vote Libertarian, other third party, or Republican, depending on several factors.

 

I'm not at all impressed with Barr, either, and I really, really wanted to be able to vote Lib this time around.

 

I have heard that Barr is now trying to get Ron Paul to replace his VP pick. Would that tip the scales for you? Or is Barr himself too much of an obstacle?

 

Yes, I had heard that and I would have voted for that ticket. However, I have since heard that this was political posturing by Barr and that he had no intention of actually doing this even though his VP pick said that he would step aside for this because he believe that it would be in the best interest of the party to do so. The members of the following parties held a press conference announcing that they would agree to get their constituents to vote for any third party candidate: the Constitutional party, the Green Party, Ralph Nader and one other person I can't remember right now. Barr didn't not attend this conference and only sent his letter to Ron Paul after the fact. This leads me to futher question his character. My husband is very involved in this whole movement and I can have him send you more info in a PM or post about it if more people are interested in it.

[Parabola]

Nifty quiz!!!

 

Here are my results:

 

Your PERSONAL issues Score is 100%.

Your ECONOMIC issues Score is 40%.

 

According to your answers, the political group that agrees with you most is...

 

LIBERALS usually embrace freedom of choice in personal matters, but tend to support significant government control of the economy. They generally support a "government-funded safety net" to help the disadvantaged, and advocate strict regulation of business. Liberals tend to favor environmental regulations, defend civil liberties and free expression, support government action to promote equality, and tolerate diverse lifestyles

 

Wow....what a shocker! :D :lol:

 

I had the EXACT same score. But I already knew I was a big flaming Liberal. :D

The problem I have with libertarianism and its support of a totally free market with no government control, is that the market is about money and people tend to get trampled in that market unless they already have money. I put people before money, so I want some rules and regulations and safeguards and watchdogs making sure that the big guys don't run over and railroad the little guys. If it could be different, if the big guys could be trusted to hold themselves accountable, I'd be a libertarian. But they can't, so I want protection for the people.