Greta Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Just to explain the background of my question a bit: years ago I got really into yoga. I mean, really into it. And I got super bendy. And I also was hurting all the time, with muscle cramps and aches and whatnot. I finally figured out that stretching should not be an extreme sport, so I quit and I felt better. I have no desire to ever be that flexible again, but now I'm starting to feel that I'm not flexible enough. I walk a little more stiffly than I used to, and 41 is too young to be shuffling around like an old lady! So, I tried an "Active Isolated Stretching" class last Tuesday at my gym. And my left shoulder and neck have been in agony ever since. :( I thought that since this was "dynamic" rather than "static" stretching it wouldn't hurt me. Apparently I was wrong. So I'm developing this theory that my body strongly objects to me stretching a muscle beyond the point where the opposing muscle can move it. Let me see if I can give an example of what I mean. If I reach down to touch my toes, I suspect that's probably fine. If I wrap a yoga strap around my feet and PULL myself down toward my toes, forcing the muscles to move beyond the point that they are actually capable of moving on their own, that's probably not so fine. It's just a theory. I would like to know what people who are knowledgeable about exercise think of my theory. And I would also like to know how to maintain/improve flexibility without stretching. Any ideas for me? Are there forms/types of yoga that don't have you *pulling* yourself into stretches, but just moving through your natural range of motion? Is there something besides yoga that I should consider? I tried Tai Chi a few times, but it didn't really seem to do much. Maybe I need to give it more of a chance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fairfarmhand Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 I've found pilates to be like that. But really, you shouldn't do any exercise that forces you to stretch very far past your natural range of motion. In other words, stretching should be gentle, make you feel long and loose. Not achy. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Well, I have done plenty of yoga without using straps. I have never used them. I've never had a teacher say they were mandatory. In fact, I've hardly seen them, and this is a BIG yoga town, lol. It could be the type of yoga though. We have a Krippalu training center not far away so there is a lot of that about and maybe it isn't strap heavy? I do like blocks though, because it allows for attaining positions without having to go beyond my range of motion. They just provide support. So, maybe try yoga but only do what you can do? Do you have a foam roller? A 'stick' for massage? that is my personal favorite. Have you heard of the 'melt method'? What about classical stretch? Or is that too much for you right now? Maybe you need to see a PT? Jeepers, I have a lot of questions but not much helpful information, lol. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJ. Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 You don't have to pull yourself into stretches and go farther than is comfortable in yoga. You can take yoga and stretch only as far as you desire to go. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greta Posted June 8, 2015 Author Share Posted June 8, 2015 I do have a foam roller but don't really know what to do with it! Haven't heard of the "melt method" so I will look into that. Don't really know what classical stretch is either, though the name certainly sounds like it should be obvious! :lol: Thanks! My gym offers: Hatha, Vinyasa, and Iyengar yoga. The descriptions on the website are not helpful at all in determining which would be best. Any suggestions as to which one I should try first? In any of those, would I be able to just do the motions as far as I can naturally, without lots of pushing/pulling? Of course I can go and actually talk to the instructors, but if anyone has a suggestion as to which class I should start with, that would be great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 I think you can go to a yoga class you like and just don't use the straps. I don't see how that would be a big deal. Does everyone use them in the classes? That is so weird to me. Again, I think it is just a regional difference. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greta Posted June 8, 2015 Author Share Posted June 8, 2015 Well, I have done plenty of yoga without using straps. I have never used them. I've never had a teacher say they were mandatory. In fact, I've hardly seen them, and this is a BIG yoga town, lol. It could be the type of yoga though. We have a Krippalu training center not far away so there is a lot of that about and maybe it isn't strap heavy?I should clarify that it wasn't always with a strap. Sometimes you would just use another part of your body to force one part of your body beyond where it could move. Like in my example of stretching the hamstrings, maybe you would just grab your ankles or feet with your hands and pull. I took quite a lot of ashtanga yoga, and there were no straps or blocks at all, because you're just moving too fast to fiddle with them. But there was still a lot of using your hands and arms to pull yourself beyond your range of motion. In other yoga classes, though, people did use straps to pull. I do like blocks though, because it allows for attaining positions without having to go beyond my range of motion. They just provide support.That makes sense! Jeepers, I have a lot of questions but not much helpful information, lol.On the contrary, you gave me a lot to look into and think about! (Edited for stupid spelling.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornblower Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 You don't have to pull yourself into stretches and go farther than is comfortable in yoga. You can take yoga and stretch only as far as you desire to go. Yoga really shouldn't be competitive, not even with yourself (don't start me on yoga competitions.. bleh! ) I personally find hatha the most mellow & least likely to cause injury IF the participant does not push. It's not about getting the stretch, it's about doing your best approximation of the position, and letting your body just BE in that pose. So I'd recommend going back to good beginner yoga, and being patient, taking the time to relax in poses rather than having the object be the stretch. Maybe make a card & prop it by your feet - "Stretching is the not the goal. It's a side effect." 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greta Posted June 8, 2015 Author Share Posted June 8, 2015 Yoga really shouldn't be competitive, not even with yourself (don't start me on yoga competitions.. bleh! ) I personally find hatha the most mellow & least likely to cause injury IF the participant does not push. It's not about getting the stretch, it's about doing your best approximation of the position, and letting your body just BE in that pose. So I'd recommend going back to good beginner yoga, and being patient, taking the time to relax in poses rather than having the object be the stretch. Maybe make a card & prop it by your feet - "Stretching is the not the goal. It's a side effect." Thank you, this is a great help! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greta Posted June 8, 2015 Author Share Posted June 8, 2015 I was not able to do yoga nor Pilates, so over the past few years, I have been stretching to Classical Stretch by Miranda Esmonde White (classicalstretch.com) I can not say enould good things about this. The have a more modern part of the company now run by the founder's daughter called Essentrics. I like the original ones by Miranda, who is now in her mid-sixties. Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 My gym offers: Hatha, Vinyasa, and Iyengar yoga. The descriptions on the website are not helpful at all in determining which would be best. Any suggestions as to which one I should try first? In any of those, would I be able to just do the motions as far as I can naturally, without lots of pushing/pulling? Of course I can go and actually talk to the instructors, but if anyone has a suggestion as to which class I should start with, that would be great. It sounds like the key is not which is best in general, rather the issue may be you needing to stop yourself from pushing too far. Most yoga instructors encourage going deeper into a stretch and it's not an issue because the vast majority of participants have the issue of not being flexible enough. I think you answer on what's best may be in the individual instructors. If you find one that you can talk to about your needs before class and ask them to remind you when you've stretched far enough. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greta Posted June 8, 2015 Author Share Posted June 8, 2015 It sounds like the key is not which is best in general, rather the issue may be you needing to stop yourself from pushing too far. Most yoga instructors encourage going deeper into a stretch and it's not an issue because the vast majority of participants have the issue of not being flexible enough. I think you answer on what's best may be in the individual instructors. If you find one that you can talk to about your needs before class and ask them to remind you when you've stretched far enough. That is a really great point, Diana. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Every yoga class I have been to, the instructor stresses that we should only go as far as our bodies allow, that we should not push the position. that has always been front and center. Breathe into the muscles and release on the exhale, but listen to your body and don't push beyond what you can do. The point isn't to get 'super stretchy' or reach a certain point of flexibility. The point is the process, the breathing with the movement. As one teacher once said, if the movement with the breath isn't the focus, then it is just a stretching program, not yoga. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wintermom Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Is yoga or stretching class the only form of physical activity you are regularly doing? Do you balance other activities with stretching? Are some or many of your joints very flexible? Sometimes people with very "loose" joints need to build up the muscles around joints to stablize the joint, as the ligaments are looser. There should be a balance of strength and flexibility. It's more common that people have strong muscles but don't stretch and/or work on flexibility, and then risk muscles and tendons tearing. Less common is people with over-flexible joints, and they may need to build up muscle strength to ensure that the joints are stable and don't over extend to the point of pain. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greta Posted June 8, 2015 Author Share Posted June 8, 2015 Is yoga or stretching class the only form of physical activity you are regularly doing? Do you balance other activities with stretching? Are some or many of your joints very flexible? Sometimes people with very "loose" joints need to build up the muscles around joints to stablize the joint, as the ligaments are looser. There should be a balance of strength and flexibility. It's more common that people have strong muscles but don't stretch and/or work on flexibility, and then risk muscles and tendons tearing. Less common is people with over-flexible joints, and they may need to build up muscle strength to ensure that the joints are stable and don't over extend to the point of pain. I do weights, and I've been doing run/walk/runs for awhile now, though just today I officially started the couch to 5K program. I don't seem to have much consistency or symmetry with my flexibility. What I mean is, some joints are very flexible while others are very tight. For example, my hip abductor muscles are super flexible, while my hip adductors are super tight. My knees are so flexible that when I'm just standing in what is for me an ordinary position, they are in a position that most people couldn't even get their knees into if they tried. But the muscles of my neck and shoulders always seem to be uncomfortably tight. I'm a mess! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Negin Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 This is an old thread and I'm a bit late to it. Not sure if anyone has mentioned Classical Stretch, but I love them. I try to do one session most days. Sometimes I do two. It all depends on my time. I notice a difference when I do them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KungFuPanda Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Is it possible that your ego is encouraging you to over stretch? Have you tried a gentle yoga class? You may be the only person in it without white hair, but you'll feel better for days and days without paying for it. I also have this theory that past 40, you're going to feel something no matter what you do. The pain of not moving is worse than the pain of moving in my book. Also, muscle pain is good pain, but joint pain is bad. I'm a 40+ dancer. I can keep up with the teeny year olds in class, but I go home and crash and they go out clubbing afterwards. They're not in any more pain than me the next day either. It sucks, but there it is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6packofun Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 I was not able to do yoga nor Pilates, so over the past few years, I have been stretching to Classical Stretch by Miranda Esmonde White (classicalstretch.com) I can not say enould good things about this. The have a more modern part of the company now run by the founder's daughter called Essentrics. I like the original ones by Miranda, who is now in her mid-sixties. Can you recommend seasons? There are so many DVDs to choose from and I think I'm going to take the plunge with this. Should I buy from the actual site or is there a cheaper option? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greta Posted November 13, 2015 Author Share Posted November 13, 2015 Is it possible that your ego is encouraging you to over stretch? Have you tried a gentle yoga class? You may be the only person in it without white hair, but you'll feel better for days and days without paying for it. I also have this theory that past 40, you're going to feel something no matter what you do. The pain of not moving is worse than the pain of moving in my book. Also, muscle pain is good pain, but joint pain is bad. I'm a 40+ dancer. I can keep up with the teeny year olds in class, but I go home and crash and they go out clubbing afterwards. They're not in any more pain than me the next day either. It sucks, but there it is. I think the gentle yoga class is a good idea. I've taken a tai chi class a few times, and I think I was the only person there under the age of 70. That doesn't bother me in the least, though - I felt quite comfortable and everybody was very welcoming. And besides, my hair would be about half white if it weren't for the miracle of modern dyes anyway. ;) Tai chi was very relaxing, but other than that, I didn't feel like it was really doing anything for me. So I should give gentle yoga a try. Yeah, this over-40 stuff isn't great fun. Everything hurts more, recovery takes longer, and progress is both slow and limited. :( My knee actually made a creaking sound the other day, I kid you not. ...sigh... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joyofsixreboot Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 In my opinion, forcing a stretch is never a good idea. In any stretch! In my class, I recommend only stretching to the point of " sweet discomfort". It doesn't hurt. You can just begin feel it. There is all sorts of new information about fascia and muscle memory. It's a slow retraining if you don't want to hurt yourself, IMHO. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommymilkies Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 I would start with Jill Miller's The Roll Model and her DVDs. She's very good at restorative exercise and stretching properly. She's my #1. :) 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Can you recommend seasons? There are so many DVDs to choose from and I think I'm going to take the plunge with this. Should I buy from the actual site or is there a cheaper option? If you want to try it a little bit before you buy, you should check your public library. A lot of libraries have classical stretch DVDs to loan. And Youtube has some samples and free 'check it out' type 'mini-stretch' to try. There is also "Essentrics" with is Miranda's daughter. I think they are very similar, they are not in competition or anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommymilkies Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Here are some free Jill Miller youtube vids. They are really great and she really stresses proper form and NOT hurting yourself. https://www.youtube.com/user/yogatuneupvideos 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Do you have access to a Health Rider? Those improve flexibility across the board without overdoing it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greta Posted November 14, 2015 Author Share Posted November 14, 2015 Do you have access to a Health Rider? Those improve flexibility across the board without overdoing it. I've never heard of that, so I'll have to google. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 They were all the rage about 10-15 years ago, and now you find them on Craig's List for $50. They are very smooth gliding exercise machines, kind of similar to rowing machines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greta Posted November 14, 2015 Author Share Posted November 14, 2015 They were all the rage about 10-15 years ago, and now you find them on Craig's List for $50. They are very smooth gliding exercise machines, kind of similar to rowing machines. Ah, yes, the images that came up look very familiar! Guess I had forgotten the name. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elfknitter.# Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Is it possible that you are hyper flexible, and thus over stretching without knowing it? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie12345 Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Stretching is very much like anything else in that there should be a progression. You probably wouldn't start bicep curls with 30lb weights. You'd choose a more comfortable (but not too comfortable) weight and work your way up over an extended period of time, as your muscles adapt to the work load. In the same way, if you ONLY stretch to your current normal range of motion, you're only going to ever have your current range of motion. So you should be feeling slightly "pushed". But don't ever do anything simply because other people are. They may be more flexible naturally, or have worked themselves up to that over time. Or they may be dumb. Don't be dumb. ;) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Negin Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 Just thought to let everyone know that Classical Stretch is having their annual Thanksgiving-period sale until December 9. 20% off all DVDs. 30% off all Bundles. Free shipping on 3 or more items. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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