What accommodations do you make for your young dyslexia/dysgraphia/dyspraxia students?

[pitterpatter]

I'm not sure how I feel about making drastic accommodations for DD at age eight. I'm afraid of cheating her out of valuable skills that she'll need while attending college or during her career (like being able to take notes and meeting minutes quickly). On the other hand, with technology such as it is, I wonder whether I'm over-worrying a bit. We're getting to the point where her inability to spell and write quickly is becoming a hindrance to her overall intellectual output. I'm struggling with how much I should scribe for her. I've been reading up a bit and trying to figure out how to create a better learning environment for her this coming fall. Today, I discovered that my Kindle Fire HDX has a speech-to-text feature that I never paid attention to before. I've been playing around with it and it does a pretty darn good job. I'm toying with the idea of letting her use it somewhat for composition, answering select comprehension questions for content subjects like science and history, etc. I'm kind of wanting to step back as scribe so I'm not tempted to interject changes as she narrates. I also would like her to have more flexibility and freedom with her thoughts and free up time and energy to focus on her weak areas. Our jolly good times in science and history are quickly tanked with any reference to writing.

 

So, I'm curious, what type of accommodations are you gals making for your young dyslexia and/or dysgraphia and/or dyspraxia and/or (fill in the blank) students?

 

No, DD does not have any official diagnoses yet besides possible/probable slight convergence excess and a couple of other vision issues we are seeking a second opinion on. ADHD is a near given. I'm also thinking dyslexia and dyspraxia.

[FairProspects]

This may not be a popular opinion, but I agree with you. I did not accommodate my children until I had written documentation of their abilities and difficulties. I do have that info now, so my 8 y.o. uses Immersion Reading for longer books of interest, he types dictations, and I often scribe for him in writing and math. He also uses a 100s chart and a large multiplication chart up to 25 x 25. I'm about to get him started using Kidspiration either this summer or fall to start organizing his writing composition and for various other bigger projects. I do virtually all comprehension questions orally for both history and science. We discuss naturally and have moved to a Socratic dialogue style. It works better for everyone and there is no issue of writing getting in the way of thinking. I don't really see the necessity of writing comprehension questions in elementary anyway.

[FairProspects]

As far as notes and note taking go, my boys' neuropsych stated that they both would qualify for professor notes or to have a note-taker in class with them through the student services office. I will still teach them note-taking, likely with technology and Notability or a Live Scribe pen, but note taking for them is going to look different simply because of their dx and that is just a reality that will have to be accommodated.

[Lecka]

We are in early days of an official dysgraphia diagnosis for my 10-year-old son.  

 

I have scribed for him a lot, it is the only way for him not to get upset and discouraged when the writing is just too much.  

 

The person we saw recommended that he type -- she said it is the thing that will be like real life -- she said that typing will be doing it himself in a way that he can continue into the long-term.  

 

But she also said she would like him to write for things that are not very long, but she would like him to type for things that are a paragraph or longer.  

 

But we are still early on this, I don't know exactly what we will do.  

 

But I have scribed.... a lot of times it is like a choice between weeping on his part, or scribing on my part.  Scribing is an easy choice then.  But he has gotten to where he would rather type b/c he can do it on his own.  But -- he is not a good typer yet, so that something to work on.  

 

But scribing worked better when he was younger, more recently he wishes he was more independent like he can be typing.  

 

I have had typing presented to me as "more functional" at this point, compared to speech-to-text.  But I don't know if that would be the case if my son didn't seem up for typing.  He does seem pretty up for typing at this point, so it seems like the way to go at this point.  If typing didn't seem like a good option for him, I think we would have a different recommendation for him.  

[mommy5]

I've struggled with this as well.  My son was diagnosed 2 years ago with dyslexia and dysgraphia.  He has come a long way in the past 2 years.  Over the past few months he has finally started working independently in some subjects and doesn't complain (as much) about writing.  I did scribe for him age 8 when he was first diagnosed.  Over the past 6 months I've started to decrease the amount but not take that away altogether.  I want him to be able to enjoy and learn the "content subjects" and not worry about how to spell every word.  We did O.T. for 3 months after his diagnosis and that helped his handwriting a lot.  We use the speak to text feature on the ipad for some of his work.  I've been thinking of teaching him typing, as well.

[Plink]

We use a lot of accommodations.  It is only cheating them out of something if you remove an expectation without giving them the right tools to accomplish the task long term.  

 

Therefore, for everything I've taken off of DD's plate, I've added a different skill that reaches the same goal:  

 

• Removed the expectation of neat notes - taught her how to take sketchnotes and use a livescribe
• Removed the expectation of writing her own papers - taught her how to use the speech to text feature on our Mac & type
• Removed the expectation of correct spelling when focused on content - taught her how to use spell-check (how to really use it, not just allow it to auto-fix the problem, but to recognize where the error is and remind herself of the right way to spell it)

 

 

PS - Get the evaluations sooner rather than later.  You won't regret it.

 

 

[Heathermomster]

DS received 5 years of Wilson reading instruction with an OG certified instructor.  I never scribed for DS until he started IEW in 7th grade.  Prior to that, he learned to type 2nd semester 5th grade, started carrying a NEO to class in 5th grade, and full on typing by 7th grade.  DS started using Learning Ally consistently by 4th grade.  He started carrying a multiplication chart in 6th grade.  He learned mindmapping software, textmappng, and notetaking in 7th grade.  He started carrying a Smartpen this year.  DS was diagnosed with dysgraphia in 2nd grade, and I regret not scribing for him when he was younger.  We have Dragon sw, but it was a bust for DS.  

 

My DD, who is an undiagnosed but looking to be mildly dyspraxic, performs copywork with pencil/paper but uses a dry erase board for dictation and spelling.   I scribe her narrations and will occasionally scribe for math.  We listen to audio books for pleasure.  If things don't improve in the future, I expect to seek a diagnosis.

[Julie of KY]

Follow your instinct - drastic accommodations are needed for some and not for others.

 

I would go ahead and get evaluated if you are questioning these learning disabilities. Accommodating does not change the fact that the student needs to do work, but sometimes handwriting needs to be a separate subject and scribing/notetaking/dictating done along the way so that the handwriting does not get in the way of thinking through a project. Same with reading. If the dyslexia is severe enough, then provide a way that your student can listen to books while still practicing reading on their own level.

 

Just because you are accommodating, it doesn't mean that you are away opportunities for the future. Oftentimes, it will allow a student to flourish in areas of strengths while continuing to work on weaknesses.

[Incognito]

We were given a long list of possible ways to accommodate for reading and writing struggles when my child was 7.  

 

We haven't used a lot of the accommodations we could use for writing yet, but I learned something very important - separate the skills.  For my child, writing is not a task to be combined with thinking.  So we have done a lot of copywork.

 

Now at 9, my plans are to get typing skills up and try out speech to text software in the coming summer/fall.  Up to this point, we haven't needed a lot of written output.

 

FWIW, for our situation, it seems like the copywork and continued perseverance may be paying off.  Seeing what my child could write and what they can do now there has been a lot of improvement. I also was terribly reluctant to give up on writing with such a young child, and I am glad we didn't.  It is still harder for my 9yo than for my 7yo, but that's the bugger of LDs - it WILL be harder, there isn't really a way around it.  

 

Also, FWIW, I could have scribed more creative stories for my child in the last couple of years - I do regret not having done that, but purely because there were a lot of great stories, and I'd love to look back on them more now.  Little kid stories are so cute! 

 

As far as reading goes - I have not required reading of content materials (I do that aloud), and we listen to a lot of audiobooks as well.  We have a Kindle with Immersion Reading, we've done targeted programs/work, etc.  Reading is a whole other animal where I suppose I have accommodated a lot, but it is more of a separation of skills - I expect reading to happen, but I don't expect it to be layered with other skills (or much thinking) at the same time.  This also seems to have paid off and things are coming together some.

 

It is a really hard tightrope to walk - sometimes I have felt I am expecting too much and accommodating too little, but I try very hard to make sure that when I am expecting a lot I am not doing it in a way that humiliates or hurts my child, but instead stretches and challenges them.

[geodob]

Though I would question the idea of labelling the things mentioned, as 'accommodations'?

As they are really current 'Methods'.

Methods that are rapidly becoming normal practice in the real world.

 

So that it could be looked at as introducing her to the technologies that she will using when attending college and working in a career.

Where she would have time to explore different technologies, and identify ways to use them that are most effective for her?

Also exploring their potential.

 

[pitterpatter]

Thank you, all! Please, keep 'em coming. I'm completely out of my depth here. (Just learning product names is helpful. I've never heard of a Smartpen or sketchnotes.) I'm trying to be more understanding in regard to DD, but both DH and I are the type who work hard and do what needs to be done. We just suck up the not-so-tasty bits of life and generally move with expediency. DD is at the complete opposite end of the spectrum and it's exasperating. Having said that, I know our elementary years were not easy for either of us. I didn't come into my own until late junior high and then again during college. I'm hoping it will be the same for DD, but she's a bright, creative girl right now. She's ready for some higher-level thinking in content subjects and literature, she generally does well in grammar, and she likes words. Loves them really. She relishes her writing when it's finally on paper, but getting there, och.

 

I showed her how to work the speech-to-text feature on my Kindle last night and downloaded her a freebie notebook app to play with. She was so happy and proud. Every 10-15 minutes she dictated something new. She's made different notebooks for her science thoughts, one about life in general, one about history and the "Liberty Kids" shows she watched last night, etc. Maybe it's exciting because it's something new to play with, but she seems so genuinely happy (in an almost relieved sort of way) that she can get her thoughts out and there are words...her beautiful words...right there for her to read again and again. There's a desperate ring to it all that just makes me want to cry.

[pitterpatter]

Yes, making that mental switch is slow in coming for me. I am thankful that's she born now. With the way people talk to their phones and students use laptops/tablets in class these days, I think maybe by the time she gets to college, the way she works will be more typical than not.

 

Though I would question the idea of labelling the things mentioned, as 'accommodations'?

As they are really current 'Methods'.

Methods that are rapidly becoming normal practice in the real world.

 

So that it could be looked at as introducing her to the technologies that she will using when attending college and working in a career.

Where she would have time to explore different technologies, and identify ways to use them that are most effective for her?

Also exploring their potential.

 

[pitterpatter]

I was going to start DD on cursive this fall and wait on keyboarding until fourth grade, but now I'm wondering whether I should shift focus to keyboarding/computer skills. Anyone have recommendations on this (software and otherwise)?

[pitterpatter]

How are the quality of audiobooks with Learning Ally? Are they professional narrations?

 

DS received 5 years of Wilson reading instruction with an OG certified instructor.  I never scribed for DS until he started IEW in 7th grade.  Prior to that, he learned to type 2nd semester 5th grade, started carrying a NEO to class in 5th grade, and full on typing by 7th grade.  DS started using Learning Ally consistently by 4th grade.  He started carrying a multiplication chart in 6th grade.  He learned mindmapping software, textmappng, and notetaking in 7th grade.  He started carrying a Smartpen this year.  DS was diagnosed with dysgraphia in 2nd grade, and I regret not scribing for him when he was younger.  We have Dragon sw, but it was a bust for DS.  

 

My DD, who is an undiagnosed but looking to be mildly dyspraxic, performs copywork with pencil/paper but uses a dry erase board for dictation and spelling.   I scribe her narrations and will occasionally scribe for math.  We listen to audio books for pleasure.  If things don't improve in the future, I expect to seek a diagnosis.

 

[OneStepAtATime]

My two favorite typing programs are Type To Learn 4 and Touch-Type Read and Spell.

 

TTL4 is the most fun. It is usually available through homeschool buyer's coop for a great discount (same with TTRS). In TTL4 you are a secret agent and type to save information. Very much geared to kids and includes typing games.

 

TTRS is more of a get er done program but pairs beautifully with any OG based reading/spelling system. DS is doing dictation with this program and doing well.

 

DS and DD liked TTL4 but after awhile they both needed a change of pace. DS now uses TTRS. DD uses Typing Pal which is also pretty good.

 

Keep in mind that hand size and motar development as well as any underlying issues such as dysgraphia will play a part in how fast a child reaches fluency in typing. My kids have been working on typing for two and a half years. It is only now becoming fluent.

[Laura Corin]

I scribed for Calvin, so that his intellectual development wasn't held back by his physical delays (co-ordination and strength, probably dyspraxia).  As soon as he could type, he did that almost exclusively.  We continued to work on handwriting, so that he could use that as a backup, but we didn't spend hours a day on it.

 

How it worked out: we obtained dispensation for him to use a keyboard for (UK) exams and he typed most of his homework too.  Now that he is at university, he also has dispensation to use a keyboard for note-taking and exams.

 

I have no regrets.

 

L

[PeterPan]

Ok, I'll do something terrible, and post before I read everyone else's better responses.  :D  My feeling at this point with ds is that I'm going to give him EVERY TECHNOLOGY he needs to function where he's at, where his MIND is at.  I'm not going to allow his *disability* to hold back his progress.  And if there's a gap between his disability remediation and where his mind is at, oh well.  I'm doing the best I can with disability remediation, but I'm not going to KEEP HIM FROM being able to write his thoughts, do his conceptual math, write books, learn history or science, and all the other things he might like to do, MERELY BECAUSE SOME IDIOT WITH NO LEARNING DISABILITIES SAID THERE'S ONLY ONE WAY TO LEARN.

 

Kwim?

 

There are lots of ways to learn, and I say spit on people who say there's only ONE right way to write, ONE right way to spell, ONE right way to read, ONE right way to do math.  Is THAT what you want for your kid?  Read Ben Floss and really imbibe.  The question is not will you continue to remediate.  The question is whether you'll communicate to them that in 20 years when they use dictation software the reason they were doing it was because they were BROKEN and failed, or whether they're using it because we have LOTS of ways to interact, LOTS of ways to do things.

 

And I suppose you'll say I'll hit a wall where I stress too.  I already hit that wall with dd to a degree and she doesn't even have the SLD labels.  What I see in ds is that he drives his own progress.  To the degree that he is ready to do the skills limited by his disability, he's actually driving his own progress.  My child ASKS to do copywork and write books.  Think about the marvel of that.  He doesn't say "Dang, I have 3 SLDs, maybe I can't."  He just knows it's internal and wants to.  HE asks to do writing in Barton when I try to skip it.  Seriously.  

 

But to get there I've had to stay just a little *behind* what he could do.  We're not constantly pushing the envelope on his readiness, kwim?  That way he actually CAN have some wiggle room to suggest things and think he's brilliant, lol.  

 

And I got him ELTL, which I at first decried.  What I'm liking about it (not having started yet) is the short, short models.  There's just this big push on WTM to be harder, harder, faster, longer.  That's not the only way to do things.  Look at how short her sentences are for the copywork, and yet she gets it done.

 

My theory is my dc is going to exist as a learner, as a human, using every technology and accommodation FROM DAY 1, and as he no longer needs them he can choose not to use them.

[Heathermomster]

How are the quality of audiobooks with Learning Ally? Are they professional narrations?

No, they are volunteers.  DS struggles with a harsh NE accent, but it was all we had so we made the best of it.  DS also listens and reads books with text to speech turned on with his older Kindle.  In about 6th grade, he started listening to books at a high rate of speed.  

 

You asked about littles and accommodations.  The Smartpen is a high school accommodation.

 

 

 

 

[PeterPan]

Remember, I've got a 10 year gap.  I already did this once.  Using the accommodations and technology, as long as you're still aggressively working on getting those skills, will NOT hinder their progress.  In fact, it's just the opposite.  When you bring in those extra things from day one, you're improving their self-esteem, their confidence, their willingness to work.  You're harnessing their visual learning and using multiple inputs.  When a dc types with spell check on, he's getting visual input.  It's not a CRUTCH but a learning tool!  My dh says his spelling has improved RADICALLY since he started using spell check.

 

Do NOT buy into this idea that it's a failure to bring in these things.  It's actually the opposite.  We're using them to CATAPULT our kids learning.  These technologies are ROCKET FUEL for our kids.  Try them and see!  Using immersion reading is not going to stop our kids from reading--it actually IMPROVES reading!  Using software like Kidspiration or Inspiration is not hindering but actually UNLEASHING our kids!  We NEED to use these tools and validate them and let our kids decrease use of them when they're no longer needed.  

[PeterPan]

National Library Service is free (when you have your diagnosis and paperwork) and it has professional recordings.  Audible has so many deals, especially when you get the free ebook classics and watch for deals.  Your library will probably have Overdrive and free audiobooks and ebooks.

 

Btw, about the kindle.  If I were buying for an 8 yo, I'd probably go ipad.  The kindle works great for ds because he's a nonreader and needs the picture cover flow.  Some of the services only work on the ipad, not the kindle, and you'll have better dictation and app access on the ipad.  Go ipad.  Maybe the mini.

[PeterPan]

I was going to start DD on cursive this fall and wait on keyboarding until fourth grade, but now I'm wondering whether I should shift focus to keyboarding/computer skills. Anyone have recommendations on this (software and otherwise)?

Yup, move that keyboarding up.  It could take some time and it will be such a valuable tool when it comes.

 

My dd never succeeded with QWERTY.  We used Dvorak with Mavis Beacon.  Ds likes http://www.talkingfingers.com and although it's moderately inconvenient (messing up the cute picture window keyboard thing), I've been having him do Dvorak instead.  

[PeterPan]

Thank you, all! Please, keep 'em coming. I'm completely out of my depth here. (Just learning product names is helpful. I've never heard of a Smartpen or sketchnotes.) I'm trying to be more understanding in regard to DD, but both DH and I are the type who work hard and do what needs to be done. We just suck up the not-so-tasty bits of life and generally move with expediency. DD is at the complete opposite end of the spectrum and it's exasperating. Having said that, I know our elementary years were not easy for either of us. I didn't come into my own until late junior high and then again during college. I'm hoping it will be the same for DD, but she's a bright, creative girl right now. She's ready for some higher-level thinking in content subjects and literature, she generally does well in grammar, and she likes words. Loves them really. She relishes her writing when it's finally on paper, but getting there, och.

 

I showed her how to work the speech-to-text feature on my Kindle last night and downloaded her a freebie notebook app to play with. She was so happy and proud. Every 10-15 minutes she dictated something new. She's made different notebooks for her science thoughts, one about life in general, one about history and the "Liberty Kids" shows she watched last night, etc. Maybe it's exciting because it's something new to play with, but she seems so genuinely happy (in an almost relieved sort of way) that she can get her thoughts out and there are words...her beautiful words...right there for her to read again and again. There's a desperate ring to it all that just makes me want to cry.

Yes, yes, yes!  It's the great irony that many people, for whom it's terribly hard to get things out, actually have the most profound and worthwhile things to say!  Do you know there are professional writers who are dyslexic?  Think through this, and think what a disservice it is to tell our kids there's only one REAL way to write and that everything else is because you're a failure.  The sooner we get them over that hump, the BETTER.  

 

Give that child typing software AND dictation AND the option to have you scribe AND a voice recorder app AND...  kwim?  And then let her choose what tool would be most expedient for the particular task.  I just think you're going to find that the pace of life is going to drive her to push herself as much as she can.  If she CAN learn to type an email, she'll do that rather than using dictation.  But there's no reason she shouldn't be able to email until she learns to type, kwim?  I was just thinking I should give my ds an email to drive his desire to write and compose.  

 

They'll decide for themselves which technology or approach works for a particular application.  Our job is just to get them COMFORTABLE at using all those so they CAN feel free to choose.  

[PeterPan]

DS received 5 years of Wilson reading instruction with an OG certified instructor.  I never scribed for DS until he started IEW in 7th grade.  Prior to that, he learned to type 2nd semester 5th grade, started carrying a NEO to class in 5th grade, and full on typing by 7th grade.  DS started using Learning Ally consistently by 4th grade.  He started carrying a multiplication chart in 6th grade.  He learned mindmapping software, textmappng, and notetaking in 7th grade.  He started carrying a Smartpen this year.  DS was diagnosed with dysgraphia in 2nd grade, and I regret not scribing for him when he was younger.  We have Dragon sw, but it was a bust for DS.  

 

My DD, who is an undiagnosed but looking to be mildly dyspraxic, performs copywork with pencil/paper but uses a dry erase board for dictation and spelling.   I scribe her narrations and will occasionally scribe for math.  We listen to audio books for pleasure.  If things don't improve in the future, I expect to seek a diagnosis.

And you know what's ironic?  My dd is 16 now, like your ds, and it doesn't MATTER that her handwriting is barely legible or that she prefers to type as much as possible.  Acceptance has changed, lots of people use these tools, and our kids turn out OK ANYWAY.  

 

What we're really hitting on is the grief of comparison, that my child is different from your child.  We're NOT hitting on some absolute wall of failure that dooms our kids.  Thanks to technology, it is NOT a problem that our kids might need to type or use voice technology.  It USED to be a problem, but it's not (or doesn't have to be) now. This stuff is now mainstreamed and accepted.  EVERYONE on college campuses types their notes, everyone.  

 

I don't know, we're just at that stage where we move on to total accommodations for everything (sensory, fine motor, etc.), and the OT says you know LOTS of people use accommodations, that it's ok. 

[Heathermomster]

Be aware that some kids will struggle to learn to type.  I know students type in the 2nd and 3rd grades; however, I don't recommend pushing typing at such a young age if the instruction is causing major consternation and angst.

[pitterpatter]

I almost bought a mini at Christmastime, but I hate the iTunes software with a passion. There's so much updating that runs and runs and runs and then I can't use this or that because I don't have the latest update and all that. We have two iPods that I can't do anything with anymore. I've been hooked in with Amazon so long that Kindle feels like home. We have three working Fires (one HDX) and two Kindle Touches in the house, but I do long for the variety of apps available via Apple. At the very least, I think we need something with a bigger screen.

 

 

National Library Service is free (when you have your diagnosis and paperwork) and it has professional recordings.  Audible has so many deals, especially when you get the free ebook classics and watch for deals.  Your library will probably have Overdrive and free audiobooks and ebooks.

 

Btw, about the kindle.  If I were buying for an 8 yo, I'd probably go ipad.  The kindle works great for ds because he's a nonreader and needs the picture cover flow.  Some of the services only work on the ipad, not the kindle, and you'll have better dictation and app access on the ipad.  Go ipad.  Maybe the mini.

 

[PeterPan]

I almost bought a mini at Christmastime, but I hate the iTunes software with a passion. There's so much updating that runs and runs and runs and then I can't use this or that because I don't have the latest update and all that. We have two iPods that I can't do anything with anymore. I've been hooked in with Amazon so long that Kindle feels like home. We have three working Fires (one HDX) and two Kindle Touches in the house, but I do long for the variety of apps available via Apple. At the very least, I think we need something with a bigger screen.

Oh I know, I PASSIONATELY dislike iTunes!!!!!!!!!!!!  And it's true that for immersion reading with stuff from amazon, the kindle device itself is the only way to get there.  However some of the other apps don't run on the kindle without side loading and all kinds of mess.   I guess go through your list of what you want to accomplish.  At least you have your kindle, so you can push the envelope on how far you can take it, how much it can do, then change and get a different technology when she needs something it CAN'T do.  That's my plan with ds.  I rebought his kindle because his first one took a dunk, ugh.  

 

Where would she be working on typing?  Maybe some of the features that you can't do on the kindle you would decide to do on a laptop instead?  So like Inspiration/Kidspiration, typing, voice dictation for bigger projects, powerpoint, etc. could be done on a laptop.  Really though, the ipad had changed how you do some of these things.  Someone was showing me the app SS Stories and how we could use it to take pictures and turn them into stories.  Imagine the potential for this with our kids with dictation, where they could build the steps of the story, take pictures, dictate in, and it looks like an adorable book when they're done!  

 

But since you have the device, push what it can do.  They keep changing iTunes, so I can never find anything in it.  With my phone, I try to avoid iTunes entirely and just do things when I have access to wifi.  Seriously.  So that's one way to handle it.  If I'm just using my iphone and not trying to use idiotic iTunes, I'm quite happy and everything works and is easy to figure out.

 

You can do your amazon media on your i-device with the amazon media apps, btw.  There's amazon music.  I have it on my iphone.  You can stream your prime music and download it to your i-device.  I like the amazon music app on my iphone.  I never, ever, ever use iTunes on my phone, only amazon's music app.  I have music on the iTunes app on my ipad, but it's so annoying I almost never turn it on that way myself.  Again, if I were entirely in that ecosystem I could simply use the amazon music app on my ipad.  So to the degree you're in amazon's ecosystem, you might find it crosses over and works on an ipad better than you think.

[1shortmomto4]

I agree with Elizabeth - and I've got two in college now that have various LDs.  I found it most important to work on the foundation in the younger years and not get hung up on whether I was accommodating too much and making them weaker in the long run.  Nope, didn't happen.  Instead they became independent learners and have done very well at college.  I waited to really emphasize certain skills until we got closer to graduation when their minds and abilities were closer together.  A few important notes - if you don't have documentation (current) at the college level it doesn't matter what technology they use - it most likely will not be allowed in the lecture hall.  You have to have the magic paper.  Gone are the days where you could record the professor.  No longer allowed without documentation.  And the note taker - this is a good one.  A note taker is a student in the class that is willing to use special carbon paper and basically writes their notes and provides a copy of that to the student.  Nothing special.  No special training.  Nope, you are dependent upon getting notes from an organized, good speller, easy-to-read handwriter.  So, one thing I'd have worked on more is teaching them to read/recognize cursive or shorthand/abbreviated type words.  The bottom line was meeting the child at their level and moving forward. They do get stronger and for some, you have to get the formal dx so you continue the use of helpful tools in the classroom - just remember that you have to have the formal dx or those tools aren't allowed.

[pitterpatter]

Teh, heh. I was asked to take notes on a couple of occasions during college. Kind of annoyed me a bit because then I'd have a day or two worth of notes that didn't match my typical note-taking paper. I didn't really care to do it, but they did stand out.

 

No recording devices anymore, eh? I assume professors don't want to end up on YouTube. I don't blame them. One slip and the whole world knows.

 

I agree with Elizabeth - and I've got two in college now that have various LDs.  I found it most important to work on the foundation in the younger years and not get hung up on whether I was accommodating too much and making them weaker in the long run.  Nope, didn't happen.  Instead they became independent learners and have done very well at college.  I waited to really emphasize certain skills until we got closer to graduation when their minds and abilities were closer together.  A few important notes - if you don't have documentation (current) at the college level it doesn't matter what technology they use - it most likely will not be allowed in the lecture hall.  You have to have the magic paper.  Gone are the days where you could record the professor.  No longer allowed without documentation.  And the note taker - this is a good one.  A note taker is a student in the class that is willing to use special carbon paper and basically writes their notes and provides a copy of that to the student.  Nothing special.  No special training.  Nope, you are dependent upon getting notes from an organized, good speller, easy-to-read handwriter.  So, one thing I'd have worked on more is teaching them to read/recognize cursive or shorthand/abbreviated type words.  The bottom line was meeting the child at their level and moving forward. They do get stronger and for some, you have to get the formal dx so you continue the use of helpful tools in the classroom - just remember that you have to have the formal dx or those tools aren't allowed.

 

[pitterpatter]

What kind of keyboard do you gals use for your young typers? We have a regular-sized laptop and small Chromebook (the keyboard is smaller and the keys are closer together). After using a laptop keyboard for so long, I find it darn near impossible to type of a regular keyboard.

[Laura Corin]

What kind of keyboard do you gals use for your young typers? We have a regular-sized laptop and small Chromebook (the keyboard is smaller and the keys are closer together). After using a laptop keyboard for so long, I find it darn near impossible to type of a regular keyboard.

 

Calvin learned to type on a regular keyboard.  He has small hands (he's six inches taller than I now and our hands are still the same size) but he did fine.

[Χά�ων]

I scribed for Calvin, so that his intellectual development wasn't held back by his physical delays (co-ordination and strength, probably dyspraxia).  As soon as he could type, he did that almost exclusively.  We continued to work on handwriting, so that he could use that as a backup, but we didn't spend hours a day on it.

 

How it worked out: we obtained dispensation for him to use a keyboard for (UK) exams and he typed most of his homework too.  Now that he is at university, he also has dispensation to use a keyboard for note-taking and exams.

 

I have no regrets.

 

L

Mine is only 11 but this is what I have done for him with writing. He could not read so he listened to audio books that were much more advanced. He gained so much from being challenged intellectually and not held back while the other skills caught up. 

 

My son still gets OT for the his hand (his illness robbed him of use of his hands) and still writes with a pencil and paper as able. In the last few weeks he has started to prefer to write by hand. 

 

2e is hard enough without adding in stress of forcing a skill that is delayed or may not be possible.

[Χά�ων]

What kind of keyboard do you gals use for your young typers? We have a regular-sized laptop and small Chromebook (the keyboard is smaller and the keys are closer together). After using a laptop keyboard for so long, I find it darn near impossible to type of a regular keyboard.

My son uses the keyboard on my laptop. He is taller than me and has massive hands. 

[OneStepAtATime]

What kind of keyboard do you gals use for your young typers? We have a regular-sized laptop and small Chromebook (the keyboard is smaller and the keys are closer together). After using a laptop keyboard for so long, I find it darn near impossible to type of a regular keyboard.

Normal size keyboard.  i have an ergonomic one but DS doesn't like it much.  He uses a standard size keyboard for typing.

[Heathermomster]

DS learned on a Microsoft curved and ergonomic keyboard.  The keyboard is too big for DD's little hands.

[Incognito]

 

 

I showed her how to work the speech-to-text feature on my Kindle last night and downloaded her a freebie notebook app to play with. 

 

Can I ask you where the speech-to-text feature is, and what notebook app you downloaded? :)

[pitterpatter]

My understanding is that it has to be a Kindle Fire HDX (or perhaps a newer generation HD, I think). Simply click in some text space to pull up the keyboard. If your Kindle has it, there will be a little microphone icon as one of the keys. Just push it and speak clearly at a moderate speed. We've found that if you say "period," "exclamation point," "question mark," and "new paragraph," it will do those things. I need to find a list of commands, as DD needs to be able to capitalize, etc.

 

This is the free notebook app. It's not super, duper wonderful, but DD likes it. She started a diary yesterday and rattles on and on to it.

 

http://www.amazon.com/DroidVeda-Notebooks/dp/B008ZOHCKE/ref=sr_1_1?s=mobile-apps&ie=UTF8&qid=1433593705&sr=1-1&keywords=notebook&pebp=1433593718309&perid=0J32K2X3Z23VD00V279K

 

If I decide to use the feature for school, I'm going to look into something that's more like a word processor where we can transfer the material to a computer to print, and have her edit and correct mistakes.

 

 

Can I ask you where the speech-to-text feature is, and what notebook app you downloaded? :)

 

[geodob]

In regard to not being able to record a professor?

That pen sitting on my desk, that is pointed at you?

Has a high quality uni-directional microphone and is recording everything that you say.

The idea of preventing the recording of lectures, is now absurd.

 

Yet it wont be long before all lectures are recorded and available online as well.

 

Where I wonder if what we currently know as home-schooling?

Will be replaced by a digital classroom?

Which could soon become a 3D digital classroom?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Incognito]

My understanding is that it has to be a Kindle Fire HDX (or perhaps a newer generation HD, I think). Simply click in some text space to pull up the keyboard. If your Kindle has it, there will be a little microphone icon as one of the keys. Just push it and speak clearly at a moderate speed. We've found that if you say "period," "exclamation point," "question mark," and "new paragraph," it will do those things. I need to find a list of commands, as DD needs to be able to capitalize, etc.

 

This is the free notebook app. It's not super, duper wonderful, but DD likes it. She started a diary yesterday and rattles on and on to it.

 

http://www.amazon.com/DroidVeda-Notebooks/dp/B008ZOHCKE/ref=sr_1_1?s=mobile-apps&ie=UTF8&qid=1433593705&sr=1-1&keywords=notebook&pebp=1433593718309&perid=0J32K2X3Z23VD00V279K

 

If I decide to use the feature for school, I'm going to look into something that's more like a word processor where we can transfer the material to a computer to print, and have her edit and correct mistakes.

We recently got an HDX, I'll have to give it a go! :)

[mellifera33]

nm

[PeterPan]

I am also trying to sort this out, and I am finding Ben Foss' book "The Dyslexia Empowerment Plan" to be very helpful. Maybe paradigm-changing. :)

And if you REALLY want to blow the lid off your thinking (or keep blowing your mind, lol), go watch his youtube stuff...  He was my total wake-up call, game-changer.  

[pitterpatter]

I've been patiently waiting...I'm next on our library's digital hold list.  :D

 

I am also trying to sort this out, and I am finding Ben Foss' book "The Dyslexia Empowerment Plan" to be very helpful. Maybe paradigm-changing. :)

 

[1shortmomto4]

geodob - I agree.  Not sure how the professors control that but my ds has had a few uncomfortable professors squirm when my ds told them he'd be recording and they tried to tell him that he couldn't - and then my ds kindly directed them to the piece of paper that he provided to them at the beginning of the semester.  No more questions asked.  For the most part my ds has experienced positive professors who worked to help him succeed but the disabiity counselor was very available to intercede should a problem arise.  I think that there has been a major rise in LD-related accommodations and some professors have begun to wonder how much of this is legit.  I live in an area with a high veteran population and they have returned to school and many have LD or pyschological issues that have special requirements like a service dog.  My ds is hearing impaired (doesn't require a translator - yet) and that is just not something they're seeing every day.  Now, on the flip side of accommodations - some young people with issues use them as an excuse not to have to participate.  My dd's math course last semester had a student with a visual impairment so my dd and her friend were selected to take the math notes but after a week or so in to the course they noticed that the student didn't both paying attention to the lectures - he spent the whole time with his face in his desk looking/scrolling through his phone.  This is where the abuse of the system occurs.

 

As for everything turning into a screen thing-hopefully not because frankly not everyone does well with a screen nor responds well to all this advanced technology.  Too much of a good thing - reminds of cell phones and texting - there's a balance but society hasn't figure that out yet.

[OneStepAtATime]

I've been patiently waiting...I'm next our our library's digital hold list.  :D

The Ben Foss book is definitely worth a read.  I thoroughly enjoyed it and found it eye opening.  Just bear in mind he is not a scientist or anyone doing a long term study or compiling data from various studies so his perspective is somewhat limited to just basically his own personal experiences.  Don't get me wrong, I really felt like I learned a lot from his book.   The world needed this kind of book and his perspective.  I just found some of his assumptions limiting, even irritating at times.  :)  

[Love_to_Read]

I haven't read all of the replies yet, but I will say this...being the scribe can be the difference between having a student with dysgraphia generate an imaginative, detailed sentence, or generating "I like cats."  Or more likely, "I lik catz."  

 

One of the reasons we started homeschooling was seeing that type of decline in my child's writing when we got a teacher who pressed for her to write everything herself by hand for the practice. She had been giving wonderful lengthy answers orally, and was open to talking about higher-order revision...as in, let's try rearranging this paragraph, let's try saying it better, etc.  Suddenly, she started limiting her answers to only what she could spell and the least number of words/letters, and that was NOT progress.

 

In my experience of seeing her grow older with accommodations, and having taught struggling students before becoming a homeschool parent, kids with a solid foundation of appropriate accomodations can transfer what they've learned into making do to some degree when accommodations are not available, especially if they are working hard on remediating skills on the side--handwriting practice, occupational therapy, Orton-Guillingham phonics remediation, etc.  But kids who've gotten into a rut of limiting their self-expression, thinking, trying, etc. because it's just too hard without any accommodations...it's very hard to fix that.  It's very hard to help them rediscover their voice and create the DESIRE to speak/write with better vocabulary and more complex sentences.  It can be done, but it is so much easier to help a child venture out into trying to spell it on their own when they already have the experience built up of being used to NEEDING big words.

 

The kids I taught with the worst no-mercy, sink-or-swim backgrounds would turn in paragraphs like this:

Dogs are cool.  I have a dog. His name is Fred. He is brown. I like my dog.

And then they would argue with me that was a perfectly acceptable paragraph because it has a topic sentence, three details, and a concluding sentence, and every sentence has a subject and verb.

 

My kids who'd had a lot more "crutches" to lean on would be waving their hands in the air for spelling help or asking to use the dictionary, and would end up with something like this:

 

The best type of pet to have is a dog.  First of all, dogs are more friendly than cats.  My dog, Fred, always greets me at the door, but my cat, Sasha, ignores me until she wants to be fed. Dogs are also less maintenance. Instead of having to clean a litter box, you can take your dog for a walk and enjoy the sunshine!  Also, who ever heard of a cat that could scare away thieves?  Some people like cats but dogs are so much better.

 

You can work really, really hard to drag more detail out of the kid who wrote paragraph one, but believe me it is easier to work with child #2 who has a solid idea of what a quality paragraph can look like.  Tweens and teens really do appreciate independence and blending in, and most will work to shed accommodations if they progress to a point where they can do so without sacrificing too much speed/quality.  And if they never reach a point where they can produce great writing without speech recognition or such...well, would you rather read paragraph one as their best effort?

 

 

 

[Little Women]

I have not read all the replies,and your situation is somewhat different from mine,  but I'd like to tell you my experience.     My 2nd child had serious difficulties with writing.   She had occupational therapy for a year, but still struggled greatly with fine motor skills, and writing was a huge struggle for her.   I worried for a long time about what to do about it, and every year, I thought, "this year, we need to catch up!"  

 

One of the best pieces of homeschooling advice I was ever given was this:  if the purpose of the page isn't handwriting, let them do it orally.    I came across this advice in 2nd grade, and followed it, but when she started 3rd grade, I felt she needed to learn to do most of the writing herself.  Writing was always hard for her, and we struggled and cried through several years of it.   I usually let her do creative writing assignments orally, because I knew if I didn't I'd get a sentence or two.  If I played scribe for her, I would get very good, creative work.  

 

When she was in 5th grade, it hit me one day--kids with ADHD and sensory issues, which she also had, are usually a couple of years behind in social skills, emotional maturity, and writing!   I realized that she really was 2 years behind in these areas.   I kept thinking we needed to catch up, but she kept progressing at about a year's worth each year.  I realized that she would get there eventually, it would just take her longer.   So I went back and looked at the onlines samples of the program we were using, at the 3rd grade level.   My dd could handle the content of the 5th grade program, just not the writing of it.    So I looked at the 3rd grade assignments and cut down the length of her assignments to whatever the 3rd graders would do.     We still did the creative writing orally for awhile more.  

 

Once she had a length of assignment she could handle, she stopped crying and fighting over the assignments.  It wasn't long before she said, "Look, Mom!  I did more than you assigned!"      I think it was a combination of this and the fact that her fine motor skills were finally beginning to take hold better that worked together over the next 18 months or so, and by sometime during 7th grade, she had fully caught up.   

 

After that, she wrote pages and pages.  She really hasn't looked back since.  Now, of course, she uses a computer to write, but she is a gifted writer and loves it.  I am convinced that it was the years of doing it orally that helped her build the skills that she was able to use as soon as her physical skills caught up, and I am extremely thankful for the lady who told me, "if the purpose of the page is not handwriting, let her do it orally."    For my dd, it was truly important and helpful.

 

[PeterPan]

Like Little Women's dd, my ADHD with sensory and fine motor issues dd sort of gelled around 7th (age 12).  She went from totally resisting writing to entering fan fiction contests, etc. etc.  Like LW, we cut down assignments, used things at non-typical ages, etc. to make it work.  

 

My ds has all three SLDs as part of his mix, and for him I don't think even that will get him there.  I'm hearing that spurt can be more like 14-16 for boys with that many SLD labels.  So same idea as what LW is saying, just give yourself permission/grace to add even more years.

[pitterpatter]

Thank you, Love_to_Read and Little Women. My Ben Foss book finally came through a couple of nights ago. I've been reading it when I can. I think it's giving me a little hope and encouragement, but I really appreciate your comments as well. I feel like I really just need permission to scribe for her. I've more or less sought it out with various threads I've started or have participated in about starting Writing & Rhetoric with her next year. The only part I think she would truly have problems with is the actual handwriting of it. (I've never received my permission, by the way. Hah!)

 

Part of what has discontented me this year is that at the beginning of first grade we started off with Evan-Moor's 6-Trait Writing. I chose it in part due to it's high graphic nature and generally fun look, and it was broken up into manageable daily bits. DD enjoyed it a good bit. Having said that, she was young and had little spelling instruction, so I wrote her compositions on a write board and she copied them onto her paper. There also were a lot of sentence starters. She rarely balked at the writing. That year, I also had her use a lot of EM worksheets for grammar, which she enjoyed (again, one reason I used them...she likes worksheets). We finished all of the Evan-Moor writing and grammar several months early, so we moved onto Rod & Staff English 2 at the end of first grade. We completed this primarily orally and I tested the waters of dictation (actually, we had already done some with AAS) with The Modern Speller: Dictation Day by Day (to prepare for Writing With Ease). We used a studied dictation approach with The Modern Speller and she enjoyed it a good bit. She also didn't mind most of the little I assigned her to write with Rod & Staff because the sentenes were very formulaic and there were a lot of sentence starters or phrases she could copy when she composed. What's bothered me this year is her writing output (especially her independent writing output) has been less than it was at the beginning of first grade. I think I've come to understand that the major roadblock is her extreme distaste of and struggle with spelling. It seems to be very difficult for her even when using the AAS approach. When she writes copywork, she doesn't complain near as much. When WWE 2 switched from one day of copywork and then the next day dictation of the same sentence(s) to cold dictation both days (they removed the copywork), she didn't like that at all.

 

I'm thinking about leaving dictation to the sentences in AAS this coming year (she does pretty well with these for some reason) and the little that is in Writing & Rhetoric (maybe). I've been toying with the idea of going back to me writing her meaningful compositions on a white board and having her copy them, even if it takes several days. I can tell she's really proud of what she writes and likes the look of a completed paragraph in her own hand, but she'd rather not have it at all, if she has to spell all of the words and generally do it on her own. I encourage her to sound out words when writing (those that I know she has the skills to spell), but maybe I just need to remove that aspect for writing of any length or involving great thought.

[OneStepAtATime]

DD hated misspellings, too, but she was more willing to try writing than DS.  DS really loathes writing.  He hates any sort of misspelling, the physical act is tiring for him, he cannot stand how his letters are different sizes and spacings, etc.  It was bogging him down to do his content writing by hand.  We do that orally then I type it up.  He does physical writing as copywork. He is also getting better and better at typing so typing is becoming an option.  Scribing is the only thing that has helped him to genuinely move forward with improving his vocabulary, sentence structure, grammar, etc. when he "writes".  Otherwise the process itself impedes his progress.

[Heathermomster]

Thank you, Love_to_Read and Little Women. My Ben Foss book finally came through a couple of nights ago. I've been reading it when I can. I think it's giving me a little hope and encouragement, but I really appreciate your comments as well. I feel like I really just need permission to scribe for her. I've more or less sought it out with various threads I've started or have participated in about starting Writing & Rhetoric with her next year. The only part I think she would truly have problems with is the actual handwriting of it. (I've never received my permission, by the way. Hah!)

 

Part of what has discontented me this year is that at the beginning of first grade we started off with Evan-Moor's 6-Trait Writing. I chose it in part due to it's high graphic nature and generally fun look, and it was broken up into manageable daily bits. DD enjoyed it a good bit. Having said that, she was young and had little spelling instruction, so I wrote her compositions on a write board and she copied them onto her paper. There also were a lot of sentence starters. She rarely balked at the writing. That year, I also had her use a lot of EM worksheets for grammar, which she enjoyed (again, one reason I used them...she likes worksheets). We finished all of the Evan-Moor writing and grammar several months early, so we moved onto Rod & Staff English 2 at the end of first grade. We completed this primarily orally and I tested the waters of dictation (actually, we had already done some with AAS) with The Modern Speller: Dictation Day by Day (to prepare for Writing With Ease). We used a studied dictation approach with The Modern Speller and she enjoyed it a good bit. She also didn't mind most of the little I assigned her to write with Rod & Staff because the sentenes were very formulaic and there were a lot of sentence starters or phrases she could copy when she composed. What's bothered me this year is her writing output (especially her independent writing output) has been less than it was at the beginning of first grade. I think I've come to understand that the major roadblock is her extreme distaste of and struggle with spelling. It seems to be very difficult for her even when using the AAS approach. When she writes copywork, she doesn't complain near as much. When WWE 2 switched from one day of copywork and then the next day dictation of the same sentence(s) to cold dictation both days (they removed the copywork), she didn't like that at all.

 

I'm thinking about leaving dictation to the sentences in AAS this coming year (she does pretty well with these for some reason) and the little that is in Writing & Rhetoric (maybe). I've been toying with the idea of going back to me writing her meaningful compositions on a white board and having her copy them, even if it takes several days. I can tell she's really proud of what she writes and likes the look of a completed paragraph in her own hand, but she'd rather not have it at all, if she has to spell all of the words and generally do it on her own. I encourage her to sound out words when writing (those that I know she has the skills to spell), but maybe I just need to remove that aspect writing or any length or involving great thought.

You have my permission to scribe, and don't think twice about it.  You also have my permission to modify ANY writing program that you are using to satisfy the needs of your child.  Your last paragraph is a great idea!

[pitterpatter]

LOL! Thank you.  ;)

 

You have my permission to scribe, and don't think twice about it.  You also have my permission to modify ANY writing program that you are using to satisfy the needs of your child.  Your last paragraph is a great idea!