Ds is likely changing majors - can we talk about this in the context of college selection?

[Hoggirl]

Sorry - this is a terrible title.

 

I wanted to have a discussion on a couple of semi-related topics:

 

1) I am curious as to how many of your dc changed majors once they got to college, and

2) If your dc originally chose a college based on a major but later switched, how that worked out for

them practically (in terms of completion in four years, not being "behind," etc.)

 

Discussing point 1) is out of curiosity and discussing point 2) is for the purposes of benefitting those who will do college searches focuing on schools that offer intended majors (discussing the pros/cons of that).

 

My ds is likely going to change his major away from International Relations. He is looking at a couple of other options, but I think he is finding IR to be more theoretical than what he expected it to be.

 

As you may or may not remember, some of the colleges he applied to were selected because of *strength of major.* Now that major has changed. Thankfully, he is at a school that is strong in many areas, and I am feeling a great sense of relief that he

1) didn't wind up choosing a college based on strength of major, and

2) didn't wind up choosing a college that was going to give him a bunch of AP credit

 

Because he only earned 15 units of credit at his chosen university, he really wasn't eligible to start right off with courses in his major. There were at least five of his nine acceptances that would have taken a lot of AP credit. NOT choosing one of those has worked out to be a blessing since he is seemingly changing directions. He can easily shift what he is doing without losing ground (because he had to take so many gen ed requirements and has only dabbled in what he thought was his intended major) and because he chose a school strong in many areas as opposed to a school that is KNOWN for a particular area.

 

What have been your experiences with intended major, shifting direction, and how that worked out in the particular college your dc chose?

[Teachin'Mine]

Great topic!   I've been waiting for others to post, but would be interested in this conversation as well, so here I go.  Out of the schools dd was accepted to, only one had a rather narrow focus or at least the areas in which they excel are specific to her areas of interest.  Should those areas have changed, that option might not have been the best.  It was eliminated due to finances, not due to the focus, but while it would probably have been a good fit, I was glad that she chose a school which would help her develop more overall.  I was also glad that she chose a school which wouldn't cause undue financial stress.

 

Yes, if you start with lots of gen eds it can give lots of leeway in which direction to choose.  Dd is fairly focused on her areas of interest as she enjoys those courses, and doesn't plan to change her direction at this point.  But her chosen school would allow her to pursue just about anything she'd like and is strong in many areas.  The problem she has is trying to fit in everything she'd like to study along with fulfilling requirements even though there is a lot of flexibility.   She avoided schools with a heavy core curriculum for this reason.

 

Even if a student were to choose a school based on a specific program, they do have the option to transfer but this can lengthen their time to graduation.  Still in most cases it's better to take longer and get the degree you want than to just stick with something you don't enjoy for the sake of the piece of paper after four years.  If dd had considered an in-state university which would have accepted all her DE credits, she'd be studying for GREs and be looking at graduate schools.  I'm glad she didn't choose that option.

 

When choosing colleges, none of us has a crystal ball and some students can't visit before applying, so it's a matter of making educated guesses about what might work. Then when the acceptances come in it's a matter of again guessing which might be best.  I think it might help to have some college courses already completed in an area of interest to have some idea if that's something to continue with.  It's still not certain to be where they'll end up, but they can guess a little better.  Internships are likely even better for some students to see what the work involves and to see if it might be a good fit.  Unfortunately these are harder to get for most freshmen as many are exclusively for juniors.

 

Your son chose well and has so many excellent options to explore.  I think that deciding you don't want something is a step in the right direction in choosing what you do want.  Hopefully next year's courses and talking with professors and advisors will help him narrow down the field.  IIRC your son is strong in all areas.  I think it's harder for these students to choose just one major as they have unlimited choices.  It's also more fun because they have unlimited choices.  :001_smile: 

[SeaConquest]

At the Claremont Colleges, it was very common for people to change or add majors without it lengthening their undergraduate studies. CMC is very strong in econ and accounting -- areas of study that few high schoolers have explored in much depth. Like your son's school, we also had extensive liberal arts GEs, which led to greater exploration. I started off thinking that I would double major in IR and Russian (while at USC), but ended up studying Russian and PPE (politics, philosophy, and economics) at CMC. What is your son thinking about studying?

[Gwen in VA]

Our experiences -- My dd1 entered college with a double-major in mind and graduated with the same. Her only change was swapping the B.A. in Chemistry for a B.S. in Chemistry -- a switch that she successfully initiated her senior year. She was able to do both a B.S. and a B.A. in four years due to an abundance of AP and DE credits and a willingness to overload for a semester or two.

 

My ds1 entered expecting to major in economics. He decided at the end of his sophomore year to switch to philosophy, but since he had already signed up for several economics classes for his junior year abroad that he could not switch, he ended up his junior year with only one class to go (plus a thesis) in each, so he finished those and added a math major "just because....." Despite the triple major he graduated on time because he entered with a ton of AP and DE credits.

 

Did I mention that AP credits and DE credits ROCK?

 

Ds2 went to a microscopic school with ONE major -- but it was the one he wanted. The contacts he made there have been beyond invaluable, and there really is no other way into his field. He has never regretted the micro-school decision.

 

Dd2 entered a LAC this year expecting to double-major in music performance and math. She tossed the math by Thanksgiving and decided to really focus on her music. Despite having a decent music program and lots of opportunities, the LAC can't support super-serious music study so she is transferring to a conservatory.

 

I think the whole "big versus small" thing depends SO much on your student. My kids all wanted small, and they were willing to put up with some academic limitations to stay small. Dd2 found that "small" won't allow her to pursue her dream, so she is happily transferring to an even smaller conservatory so she can pursue the education she wants. Currently the powers that be at the conservatory say she can graduate in three years, so she should still receive her bachelor's in four years despite transferring.

 

The question of academic flexibility depends on your kid. How likely is the kid to switch majors? Does the kid want all kinds of options? Are there only a few schools that provide the education he/she wants? How allergic is your kid to the idea of transferring?

 

And as far as graduating on time, I think it depends on whether your kid is switching from engineering to philosophy or philosophy to engineering! (In my experience, philosophy has few "you must take them in this order" classes so the requirements can be dealt with in only a few semesters, while engineering has many tracked classes that require taking them in order. That requires a certain number of semesters, period!) Dd2 needs three more years to graduate from the conservatory despite having over 70 college credits already -- many of the music classes are tracked, and she can't speed up those classes.

 

Also, some schools have a history of getting students into the classes they need (my older two never had any issues getting into classes at their small LAC) and some schools are notorious for not letting students into classes until the students have declared their major, and even then getting into non-major classes may be a huge issue. Talking to current students should allow you to find out if class availability is an issue or not. (Don't trust the admissions office or the tour guides to give a straightforwarrd honest answer to this question!)

 

 

 

 

 

[retiredHSmom]

Both of my daughters made very radical changes in their majors.

 

My first daughter entered college with the intent of being an education major. At the end of her freshman year she decided that she didn't like education and wanted to be a math major. She went to speak to the math department an the only problem was that she was just finishing pre-calculus. They told her that she would need to take both calc 1 and calc 2 over the summer in order to be accepted to the math department. She did exactly that. She ended up having the top GPA in her school for her graduating class and has had several REUs and internships in math. She loves math and excels at it. She transferred colleges after her junior year and took one semester off. She could have still graduated in 8 semesters but she won a government scholarship that will pay for a full year so she is staying and adding in some additional math classes (probably grad classes).

 

My second daughter entered college as an art student. she was at the top public art school in the U.S. She hated the way that art became work and that her art was not criticized based on technique but rather based on its "meaning". She completed calc 1 in high school and took calc 2 her freshman year because she was kind of considering a dual major in comp sci and graphic design. After her first semester she transferred to mechanical engineering. She took summer classes her first two summers to get the lock step engineering classes and pre-requisites lined up properly. It has been the best change for her. She loves engineering. She has a harder time with her technical engineering classes and really has to work at them but she excels at her design based classes. She will graduate in five years. She was at a large state school with many options and coincidentally the only Mechanical Engineering PhD program in our state.

[creekland]

Oldest started off as an Community Development major wanting the international aspect of it.  He went to a Christian college specifically for that major and profs who worked there who wrote a book about it. His goal was international microfinance.  Those doing the hiring for it told him he needed to be qualified to run a bank, but that major would work if he took business classes.  Once there he found it dealt more with theory than he liked and switched to a business major instead.  There was no problem graduating in 4 years.  He only took in credits for College English.

 

And since then he met a gal who likes staying in the states... so now he works managing a local business (selling Legos) and is quite happy being married and living a few miles from his/their college.

 

Middle wanted pre-med or research with a neuroscience major.  He switched to Brain & Cognitive Science, then added Biology and minors in Psych and American Sign Language.  Just this weekend he's been toying with making the Psych a major instead of a minor or adding Chem as a minor.

 

None of that was enough... his school offers a Take 5 program where one can apply to get a FREE TUITION 5th year approved if one studies something completely different from their major - learning purely for the fun of learning.  His got approved.  He'll be studying something akin to African Global Development along with his others.  He's an RA, so his room is free.  He's a TA and gets paid to do lab research, so he has some income.  It should be an inexpensive additional year.  (He still "graduates" next year on time - the extra is extra.)

 

He went in with 2 AP classes he could have credit for, but one of his majors wouldn't accept AP Stats, so he had to redo that class anyway.  His college only has one required course (a freshman writing course), so doing so much of what he wants is not an issue.  He does take a higher course load than some, but that's also pretty common at his school with those who want to do more.

 

Youngest has switched from Marine Sciences (why he picked his school) to Bio (Marine Science was too limiting) to Theater (wow mom, I love this and it doesn't require Calculus!  :glare: ).  He's still finding himself and he is quite good at acting.  He's thinking he wants to work on the (Christian) mission field, so acting could be a useful major, esp given his talents.  He should be able to finish in 4 years IF he can remember to actually do assignments in some of his classes... He went in with DE Bio credits.  He has no desire to change colleges, though that was a little iffy earlier this year when he was having trouble finding good friends.  He has good friends now.

[Laura Corin]

It's unusual for students at English universities to change major, as one applies to a specific department, not to the university as a whole.  One can move around, but only if it's very early on (as all classes are specialised, not general) and if the new department agrees and has space.

[Hoggirl]

At the Claremont Colleges, it was very common for people to change or add majors without it lengthening their undergraduate studies. CMC is very strong in econ and accounting -- areas of study that few high schoolers have explored in much depth. Like your son's school, we also had extensive liberal arts GEs, which led to greater exploration. I started off thinking that I would double major in IR and Russian (while at USC), but ended up studying Russian and PPE (politics, philosophy, and economics) at CMC. What is your son thinking about studying?

He is considering switching to either Economics or Management Science & Engineering (a sort of hybrid between math, a little engineering, and finance - that's the best I can do to describe it). His school does not have undergraduate business. However, he joined a co-ed business fraternity, and I think his experieces with the organization and its members have influenced him. Additionally, my husband and I are both business-types with undergraduate degrees in Accounting (mine was actually Economics & Business with an Emphasis in Accounting - what a mouthful!). He definitely will be able to switch to either and finish in four years. The Econ would be the easier switch as the degree has fewer overall unit requirements than the MS&E. However, I did learn from him this weekend that his 15 units of AP credit can fulfill all the elective math and science credits that are required for MS&E. Mostly, choosing MS&E will require careful planning so that he can still work in his study abroad. Completing in four years won't be an issue other than having less wiggle room in course selection if he chooses MS&E. Honestly, I think that is the better (although I think more challenging) choice, and I fear he may also find straight Econ to be more theoretical than he wants. I am encouraging him to take courses next fall that can go either way. He can easily do that as some of the science he has to take for MS&E (Two quarters of Physics) can fulfill remaining science gen ed requirements (he only needs one more science gen ed, but he can take one that works for gen ed and MS&E) He could also take a second Econ course (he's had one already as it was needed for IR) and a statistics class. Sorry y'all's eyes are probably glassing over! My point being he still has time to decide between those two paths and can take a bit in each in the fall to help him decide.

 

It sounds like most of your children have not had insurmountable obstacles in completing on time even if transferring. It does seem that having a lot of AP credit has helped in that. I suppose that would have been the case for ds. Had he gone somewhere and spent most of an entire year on IR and then discovered it wasn't for him, he certainly wouldn't have been "behind" because he would have had so much AP credit. And, it sounds as though most of the time sticking with the original school worked for your children even if there was a long leap between majors. I would say that there would have only been two schools on his list that I think would have been a really poor match had he changed. Also, one of the Big State U's would have never been on his list except for their special program. It certainly offers everything, but isn't particularly known for anything, and isn't super well-regarded. There simply was no reason for him to have applied to those three schools other than the intent to major in IR, so I am glad he did not choose any of those three.

 

It's good to hear everyone's stories. I guess my concern about choosing a college for a major wouldn't apply *all* the time, but I can see where it could have had that potential. Just wanted this out there for those who are starting to do the college search.

[Laura in CA]

This will be interesting -- I'm glad you posted. I don't have time to read the other replies yet, and my sons are just finishing up years 1 & 2, so I can't address point 2, but I'll mention our experiences.

 

Older son chose a school that gave him full tuition (first 2 years) and is strong in engineering; after his first semester he switched out of engineering (he'd also gotten a $2k scholarship for engineering majors from CA, but he was apparently allowed to keep that!) into computer science. The CS classes certainly seem adequate, if not inspiring. He has a bit of catch-up to do, but not as much as if he had switched to a different field of engineering -- the engineering course sequences start right away in the first semester and each is a prerequisite for the subsequent course ... Also, he has added minors in math and business.

 

Younger son chose a large university with, like your son's school, many fine departments. In fact, they told us at orientation that of their 35 or 40 departments, all are ranked in the top 10 except one -- and they joked that no one remembers which department that is. :)  (As someone remarked in the summer reading thread, they even have a Scandinavian Studies department.) This son has always been gung-ho about double-majoring in Computer Science and Math (although he scared us recently by thinking about dropping CS to a minor -- b/c he wants to dig deeper into the math department's classes; he will be taking a graduate math class in the fall!), but he has definitely changed his "minor" plans. When he started, he was planning to minor in Classics and perhaps also German. He also was planning to take some Yiddish. (Yes, they offer Yiddish -- you can even minor in it!) However, he found his first Classics course to be disappointing ...  they read Lucretius, Hesiod, etc., but he did not like how they approached the texts. So now, as far as I know, he is not planning to minor in anything, but he will take Korean (for fun) next fall. -- And this is what amazes me -- how many universities offer both Yiddish and Korean? As well as have a Scandinavian Studies department? and offer Telugu, Sanskrit, etc., etc. The same breadth of offerings is true in the sciences, engineering, humanities ... So for this son, it was absolutely the right choice to attend a larger school with excellence in many areas -- not for his major (so far!), but for sampling a rich variety of "fun" classes.

 

Cynthia -- best wishes to your son (and you!) :)

[Guest2]

Great topic. My DS1 hasn't changed his major, but it will be very difficult to do at his school. I could have seen him in Finance, or a couple of others, so I had to warn him to choose carefully. He is at a very large state school that has quite a few majors , but some that are oversubscribed. Buisness and engineering have been known to take a very high gpa internal transfer rarely - less than 5 per year and sometimes there are years where no one gets in. It is very strange to me as I changed my major quite a few times , and enjoyed taking classes outside my major.

[Granny_Weatherwax]

DS thought he had an interest in a particular major (Marine Bio) and applied to some schools based on that; other schools were applied to due to type of school. After reviewing acceptances, merit aid, fin aid and going through life experiences, he is now completely Undecided so it doesn't really matter where he will attend.  His first year or so will be spent figuring out who he is and studying things that interest him.

 

His college choice came down to which school met our financial needs and his initial selection criteria (LAC on the east coast).  He had selected the state flagship but was not excited about that choice.  His merit aid required a 3.6 GPA and certain courses each year; there was no wiggle room for Life. 

 

He is planning on attending a school that gave him full tuition and almost full room and board.  Our expenses are less than 1/3 of what they would have been at the state flagship; his loans are also about 1/3 of what they would have been. The GPA requirement is a 2.0 and he can take any course he wishes. At present he simply plans on going to the school and having an easy first year.  We'll see what happens next.

[Lolly]

Dd2a changed from elementary ed to early childhood ed. Surprisingly, there were quite a few differences. Now, she is changing from early childhood ed to allied health/dental hygien. Much to the new advisor's surprise, every credit was usable. She is staying within the state system which has the first two years of very similar requirements.

 

Dd2b is changing schools from a small LAC out of state to a large instate university. That isn't transfering so well, even staying within her major. Basically, the last two years are going to have been tossed in the trash. (We are glad she is transfering. The school completely changed their math, chemistry, and physics departments after she enrolled. They now s&ck.) Because of the loss of pretty much all her biology credits (her major/the classes are just extremely different in their line-up between schools so they can't give credit) she is changing majors. The change will have her adding one year plus some summer classes instead of two extra years to graduate. The LAC did not require the freshmen/sophmore base classes that the state schools require. Those skills were addressed in some weird classes (one studied extra terrestial/bigfoot/mermaids...) along with beign incorporated into basic classes (for example, some science classes focused on speeches or writing). So, she is going in a junior taking freshment comp (fortunately ACT scores exempted her from one!) and speech... It will be an easy year at least!

[Mabelen]

My daughter went in undeclared so we already knew she needed a university with strong offerings across the board, flexibility to declare a major and even to change colleges if necessary although we thought that unlikely. She is now working towards declaring Sociology as her major. Apparently, this is the one major within her university college with the highest number of pre requisites. She is still exploring other possibilities like administrative studies or public policy as a minor or possible double major. Thankfully the fact that she went in with a ton of AP credits and that she has an academic scholarship with priority registration has made this exploration a pretty easy process. In her experience, this flexibility has been just as valuable as having strong offerings to choose from.

[Hoggirl]

Dd2b is changing schools from a small LAC out of state to a large instate university. That isn't transfering so well, even staying within her major. Basically, the last two years are going to have been tossed in the trash. (We are glad she is transfering. The school completely changed their math, chemistry, and physics departments after she enrolled. They now s&ck.) Because of the loss of pretty much all her biology credits (her major/the classes are just extremely different in their line-up between schools so they can't give credit) she is changing majors. The change will have her adding one year plus some summer classes instead of two extra years to graduate. The LAC did not require the freshmen/sophmore base classes that the state schools require. Those skills were addressed in some weird classes (one studied extra terrestial/bigfoot/mermaids...) along with beign incorporated into basic classes (for example, some science classes focused on speeches or writing). So, she is going in a junior taking freshment comp (fortunately ACT scores exempted her from one!) and speech... It will be an easy year at least!

I "liked" your post for sharing your story, but I don't like the tossed in the trash part. So sorry. If my ds were to transfer to a Big State U, I feel certain they wouldn't know what to do with some of his "weird" classes either.

 

I'm sure her year will be easy, and I hope she enjoys her new school!

[Lolly]

I "liked" your post for sharing your story, but I don't like the tossed in the trash part. So sorry. If my ds were to transfer to a Big State U, I feel certain they wouldn't know what to do with some of his "weird" classes either.

 

I'm sure her year will be easy, and I hope she enjoys her new school!

 

And, they aren't really trash, I suppose/just the credit usefulness of them is. She really enjoyed them and learned a lot. She is not happy about having to leave the biology department; it was truly awesome. Unfortunately, the other science departments (in which she has to take an awful lot of classes) are horrible. The school hasn't managed to mess up the biology department yet. I'm sure it is coming though... Plus, even in the biology department, the teachers simply will not allow A's. Dd was always in the top 3 students gradewise in the school for her classes, and had B's. The best you could hope for was a B+. Well, one girl did get an A in one of the classes one semester. That simply isn't good enough to go on into secondary level stuff for most biology majors. She was astounded when she got an A on a lab report once. The only A on anything seen for that class by any student at the school that semester. Personally, I don't think not having A's is an impressive thing. It either means the teachers aren't doing their jobs correctly at some level. In this case, the teachers are teaching well, but the amount of material being covered was too much. (The state university she is transfering to has one class broken into three seperate semesters.) I am really hoping she enjoys her new school too. She has not really been happy previously. I know something is not right when she is calling me 4 times a day.

[creekland]

And, they aren't really trash, I suppose/just the credit usefulness of them is. She really enjoyed them and learned a lot. She is not happy about having to leave the biology department; it was truly awesome. Unfortunately, the other science departments (in which she has to take an awful lot of classes) are horrible. The school hasn't managed to mess up the biology department yet. I'm sure it is coming though... Plus, even in the biology department, the teachers simply will not allow A's. Dd was always in the top 3 students gradewise in the school for her classes, and had B's. The best you could hope for was a B+. Well, one girl did get an A in one of the classes one semester. That simply isn't good enough to go on into secondary level stuff for most biology majors. She was astounded when she got an A on a lab report once. The only A on anything seen for that class by any student at the school that semester. Personally, I don't think not having A's is an impressive thing. It either means the teachers aren't doing their jobs correctly at some level. In this case, the teachers are teaching well, but the amount of material being covered was too much. (The state university she is transfering to has one class broken into three seperate semesters.) I am really hoping she enjoys her new school too. She has not really been happy previously. I know something is not right when she is calling me 4 times a day.

 

Would love to know what school you are talking about so I can either be sure not to recommend it when students ask or to recommend it with some strong cautions.  It is a major issue when strong students in a class can't get good grades - esp if they are looking for grad or prof school afterward.

 

[maize]

My perspective on the AP/other credits issue from my own college days is that having credits can open room in a student's schedule to explore different options. I was undecided on my major my freshman year, there were several that interested me. Because nearly all of my GE requirements had been met by AP and IB credits, I took mostly major classes that year--but from three different majors. Taking those classes allowed me to really get a feel for the different majors. I ended up picking one as my major and doing two minors :)

[daijobu]

Both of my daughters made very radical changes in their majors.

 

My first daughter entered college with the intent of being an education major. At the end of her freshman year she decided that she didn't like education and wanted to be a math major. 

 

First of all, good for them!  Seeing as how we on WTM are all involved in education, I am especially curious about your dd1.  Why did she change majors?  What did she think of the students and faculty in the education department?  Is she still planning to teach?