High ACT score as a sophomore - should she retake?

[Meredith]

Dd (15 - almost 16) got a 35 on her ACT this sping.  She is at the end of her sophomore year and will not graduate until 2017.  Should she retake the ACT as a junior or senior or can this score as a sophomore stand alone as legitimate?  Would it seem somehow "lazy" or "unmotivating" to turn in an "old" ACT score when applying to college?  TIA!

[Lori D.]

Congratulations to DD! A 35 is awesome! :)

 

The only reason I can think of that she might want to re-take is if she's planning on applying to a super-competitive top tier school and *needs* a 36 for admission or scholarships. Otherwise, a 35 should open most doors for her, both in admissions and scholarships! :)

 

And by not having to spend any more time on test prep and test-taking, DD can focus on AP coursework, extracurricular activities, special projects, volunteer work, etc. to develop her personal interests and make her a more well-rounded/interesting student to colleges.

 

If she is doing a lot of advanced/rigorous work already, and has also completed quite a few credits ahead of schedule, you might consider calling this past year 11th grade and next year 12th grade -- her ACT score would certainly not be "old" that way (not that it would be "old" in 2 years, either! ;) ), and DD could graduate early and get on with college. :)

 

What are her college plans at this point? What are her interests? Just me, but that's what I would focus on from here...

 

[Meredith]

Thanks for the reply!  She is our oldest, so our first to go through the college admission process - new at this!  My gut feeling is that she does not need to retake it as I *think* there is not much difference between a 35 or 36, even at the top schools.  

 

I'm kind of frustrated because I met with a public school counselor today who did not seem impressed and recommended that she retake the test to let admissions offcials know that it was not a "fluke." (It's not.)  Also, that she should take a test at the same time that her peers are taking it and that admissions officials would be thinking to themselves, "Why did she not retake the test?"  I told him the reason she would not retake it is because she got a 35 and they would probably figure that out.  It was probably a mistake to meet with him (had a few other frustrating interactions) but picked up a few tips and I like to know what "they" are thinking out there.

 

Sorry for the rant.  Trying to figure out where she wants to go and what she wants to do....LOVES math, enjoys working with people, enjoys healthcare, not sure how to put that all together.  Thinking about the University of Michigan - not too far from us.  Hillsdale, Wheaton, Northwestern, UofChicago.  Any ideas and input welcome.

[Lori D.]

I'm kind of frustrated because I met with a public school counselor today who did not seem impressed and recommended that she retake the test... It was probably a mistake to meet with him… 

 

...Thinking about the University of Michigan - not too far from us.  Hillsdale, Wheaton, Northwestern, UofChicago.  Any ideas and input welcome.

 

Well, I'm pretty unimpressed with public school counselors. Mostly I think it is because they are way overworked -- often one counselor for hundreds of students in the public high school, so very little time to research the wide variety of options out there, and how best to tailor each student for applying for options.

 

You are probably better off speaking with local homeschoolers, or people on these Boards, who have had their students admitted to some of these colleges. JMO! :) -- For example, of WTMers, regentrude's daughter is just finishing her freshman year at U o fChicago, and I know someone else (can't think who at the moment) had a student at Hilldale...

 

 

… public school counselor … recommended that she retake the test to let admissions offcials know that it was not a "fluke"

 

… Trying to figure out where she wants to go and what she wants to do....LOVES math, enjoys working with people, enjoys healthcare, not sure how to put that all together..

 

 

JMO, but I think a better option to re-taking the ACT would be some AP coursework and tests next year. High AP scores would confirm the high ACT score AND would allow DD to work at her higher / more rigorous level, AND would be very helpful for admissions to some of these more prestigious selective schools. :)

 

If she is interested in healthcare, being strong in Math will be a good complimentary skill. And, she'll want to accomplish 4-5 credits in the Sciences -- they should all be lab sciences, and hopefully 1-2 will be Advanced sciences. If going into a healthcare field, usually Biology and Chemistry are esp. useful, as well as an Advanced credit of one or both… But Anatomy & Physiology would be good, as would Physics.

 

And, if moving towards healthcare, Math and Sciences would be useful choices for AP courses and tests.

 

Maybe you and DD can start doing some career exploration together, and look at some of the healthcare fields. It doesn't just mean being a doctor or a nurse. There are lots of great ways of working with people in healthcare: Occupational or Physical Therapy, Dietician, Speech Therapy…

 

The Occupational Handbook from the US Bureau of Labor is a helpful resource (here's a listing on healthcare occupations). is a helpful resource. The CA Career Zone website is also very helpful -- the interest profiler helps you narrow the 6 general interest areas to your top 3, which are then used to search for occupations that match up with those interests. Once you know your top 3 interest areas, you can also use that to search for more occupations at the NY Career Zone website.

 

BEST of luck, as you move into the next stage of homeschool high school, as administrator and school counselor! :) Warmest regards, Lori D.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Rather than retake the ACT, she might look at whether schools she's interested in want SAT subject tests. I also like the AP idea or maybe dual enrollment if that's an option.

 

The counselor's reasons for suggesting she take it again seem uninformed.

 

I would highly recommend she take the PSAT as a junior as it sounds like she would possibly have a score that would put her into the National Merit Scholarship competition.

[Meredith]

Thank you so much - great ideas!  I should have known better and come here first!  

 

She took AP Calc BC, AP Chemistry, and AP Macroeconomics this year.

 

If anyone else has opinions on if she should retake the ACT, I would be interested to hear - just to make sure I am not missing something.

 

 

 

[Meredith]

Rather than retake the ACT, she might look at whether schools she's interested in want SAT subject tests. I also like the AP idea or maybe dual enrollment if that's an option.

 

The counselor's reasons for suggesting she take it again seem uninformed.

 

I would highly recommend she take the PSAT as a junior as it sounds like she would possibly have a score that would put her into the National Merit Scholarship competition.

 

Yup, has already taken two subject tests - chemistry and Math II and dual enrolling next year - Calculus 3.

[LisaKinVA]

I don't see any reason to retake the ACT.

[snowbeltmom]

Dd (15 - almost 16) got a 35 on her ACT this sping.  She is at the end of her sophomore year and will not graduate until 2017.  Should she retake the ACT as a junior or senior or can this score as a sophomore stand alone as legitimate?  Would it seem somehow "lazy" or "unmotivating" to turn in an "old" ACT score when applying to college?  TIA!

 

Congrats to your D on a great score!  At the top schools, there is no difference between a 35 and a 36 as once a student is at that high of a score, the other areas of a student's application come into play.

 

If you daughter is planning on applying to Carnegie Mellon, you may want to give them a call and ask if they will accept the score from sophomore year.  I think Cal Tech may also want scores from junior or senior year, but I am not 100% sure about that.  Here is the blurb from Carnegie Mellon's website:

SAT Reasoning Test, ACT with Writing, SAT Subject Tests

Carnegie Mellon requires either the SAT Reasoning Test or ACT with Writing from every applicant. We also require Subject Tests from most applicants (taken junior or senior year)—please see our Subject Test requirements by college/school. Please plan on taking these tests no later than December of your senior year.

 

I do know that some students have been accepted with subject test scores taken before junior year, though, so their requirement is not set in stone.

 

[Luckymama]

If you daughter is planning on applying to Carnegie Mellon, you may want to give them a call and ask if they will accept the score from sophomore year. I think Cal Tech may also want scores from junior or senior year, but I am not 100% sure about that. Here is the blurb from Carnegie Mellon's website: SAT Reasoning Test, ACT with Writing, SAT Subject Tests

Carnegie Mellon requires either the SAT Reasoning Test or ACT with Writing from every applicant. We also require Subject Tests from most applicants (taken junior or senior year)—please see our Subject Test requirements by college/school. Please plan on taking these tests no later than December of your senior year.

 

I do know that some students have been accepted with subject test scores taken before junior year, though, so their requirement is not set in stone.

Interesting--thank you. Dd will have taken 3 subject tests by the endof sophomore year, because of how the timing works with completed classes. Something to keep in mind.

[MorningGlory]

My son made a 35 on his first attempt in September of his sophomore year. It has been very nice not having to think about that test anymore.

 

One school that my son is considering (his safety of all things) says that the ACT score cannot be older than 3 years at the point of enrollment. I'm not exactly sure when enrollment takes place...I would assume the summer before entering the school. Well, that gives him just a few months to spare. So you might want to check the schools that your daughter is considering to make sure they don't have some strange limitation on the age of the ACT score. 

 

Congratulations!!! :-)

[snowbeltmom]

Interesting--thank you. Dd will have taken 3 subject tests by the endof sophomore year, because of how the timing works with completed classes. Something to keep in mind.

My oldest had taken all of his subject tests by sophomore year and he had no trouble with his tests being accepted.  My middle may have Carnegie Mellon on his list, so he is waiting until the fall to take his subject tests. 

 

I do know that a poster on the yahoo list hs2coll had a son who had to retake a subject test (even though it was an 800) because he took it prior to junior year.  I think Cal Tech was the school on his list that required him to retake the test, but I am not 100% sure I have the school name correct so you would want to check their policy if Cal Tech is on your list.

[Kathy in Richmond]

Hi Meredith (& it's so nice to see you here again!),

 

First, congrats to you daughter on her terrific score. :)

 

Second, don't listen to that guidance counselor! The difference between 35 and 36 at ANY school, no matter how competitive, will be irrelevant for admissions. At that point, it's all of the other stuff (extracurriculars, leadership, APs, SAT2s, rec letters, essays) that will make the difference. She has earned a ticket out of any further ACT/SAT testing!

 

My daughter was in exactly the same position with a 35 ACT sophomore year. Here in VA we have to submit testing scores annually for homeschoolers, so she did end up retaking junior year. It was a choice between that and the Iowa tests, and she made the decision. But...it was pointless as far as college admissions go (same score, & no it wasn't a fluke!).

 

[ETA: Another consideration is cost. Most of the school's on dd's list required that she send all test scores taken in high school. ACT charges separately for each testing date. And another thing: I was more concerned that dd's retake of a 35 would look like she was too focused on testing perfection.]

 

Another school in the region you're considering with a good math dept is St Olaf's. It might be worth a look for your daughter.

 

About the SAT 2 testing dates: my son had SAT subject test scores from sophomore year, and both Caltech and Carnegie Mellon were fine with it & accepted him. It's probably a good idea to ask them, though, if either of those schools is on your dd's list.

[KarenNC]

The only reason I can think of would be if she for some reason did not do the writing portion (though I imagine she probably did), as some schools require it with writing.

[Joules]

I think with many schools the "within X years of enrollment" is directed at older students. They want someone with fresh knowledge, not someone who took the test 10 years ago and has been doing little academic since. I really think that if a student is moving on with more AP or DE classes, a sophomore test is completely fine. My only concern would be if a student had no other outside classes or test scores after the ACT, it might suggest that she has been doing little and just resting on her laurels (not to me, but to the picky admissions people.)

[MBM]

Congrats to your daughter! 35 is a terrific score. Colleges are not going to give a hoot whether she took the ACT at the same time with other students or not as long as it was legitimately proctored. I believe most schools will take a sophomore score but that is the kind of detail to check once you narrow down the list of schools. More than likely, if your daughter has to take the ACT again, she will score the same--or improve.

 

What you want to do now is research schools and special programs that might interest her. You are going to want to know specifically what they want from applicants.

 

I know a little about Northwestern because two of my kids have gone/are going there. You daughter might be interested in the Integrated Science Program (ISP). Admitted students who meet certain criteria are sent invitations to apply. They also have the Honors Program in Medical Education (HPME) which requires the SAT subject tests Math 2 and Chemistry. You'll want to know nitty-gritty things like that.

 

If healthcare, people and math interest her, she might also like Mathematical Methods in Social Sciences (MMSS) at NU which has a certain amount of flexibility that allows students to *mix-and-match* courses to some degree to suit their interests. The CFO at Lurie Children's Hospital in Chicago was in MMSS.  You can check out MMSS theses here. (My son is doing MMSS as an incoming freshman this year. My daughter was in EE.)

 

Northwestern also has terrific opportunities -- and funds! -- to study abroad which they strongly encourage. I know students who've traveled to several different countries to study.

 

For now, as you make a list of prospective colleges, you'll want to find out what each wants from applicants and if homeschoolers have to provide additional information. If you cannot find this online or elsewhere, call or email admissions.

 

Definitely have your daughter take the PSAT because a good score on that and then a good score on the SAT can lead to some good money for college and honors programs.

[Joules]

 

 

Definitely have your daughter take the PSAT because a good score on that and then a good score on the SAT can lead to some good money for college and honors programs.

 

Definitely a good point.  With a 35 on the ACT, she will likely qualify for National Merit when she takes the PSAT

[creekland]

I'm also going to add to BE SURE TO SIGN HER UP FOR THE PSAT IN OCT this coming year.

 

It's inexpensive and could pay off handsomely pending her score and school choice.

 

If she gets a qualifying score, she'll then need to take the SAT and that will make your whole question moot.

 

In general, unless a specific school required it, I would not have a student retake a 35 or 36.  Anything lower would depend upon the student and their desires/goals.

[Lawyer&Mom]

I wouldn't retake, just on the off chance her score goes down.

 

I took the PSAT as a sophomore, and again as a junior. My score went down. Not by a lot, but still.

[Meredith]

If you daughter is planning on applying to Carnegie Mellon, you may want to give them a call and ask if they will accept the score from sophomore year.  I think Cal Tech may also want scores from junior or senior year, but I am not 100% sure about that.  Here is the blurb from Carnegie Mellon's website:

SAT Reasoning Test, ACT with Writing, SAT Subject Tests

Carnegie Mellon requires either the SAT Reasoning Test or ACT with Writing from every applicant. We also require Subject Tests from most applicants (taken junior or senior year)—please see our Subject Test requirements by college/school. Please plan on taking these tests no later than December of your senior year.

 

I do know that some students have been accepted with subject test scores taken before junior year, though, so their requirement is not set in stone.

 

I really appreciate this input and the idea that maybe, at least from an official point of view, some colleges may state a preference for a test taken in the junior or senior year.  It sounds like practically it has not been a problem, so I will ask specific colleges if it will be a problem.

 

My oldest had taken all of his subject tests by sophomore year and he had no trouble with his tests being accepted.  My middle may have Carnegie Mellon on his list, so he is waiting until the fall to take his subject tests. 

 

I do know that a poster on the yahoo list hs2coll had a son who had to retake a subject test (even though it was an 800) because he took it prior to junior year.  I think Cal Tech was the school on his list that required him to retake the test, but I am not 100% sure I have the school name correct so you would want to check their policy if Cal Tech is on your list.

 

Hmm...subject tests.  To tell you the truth, I never really thought about this.  It just makes sense to me that when you have completed the coursework for the subject test, you take the test, no matter what grade you are in.  Dd took Math 2 as a freshman and Chemistry this year as a sophomore.

 

Hi Meredith (& it's so nice to see you here again!),

 

First, congrats to you daughter on her terrific score. :)

 

Second, don't listen to that guidance counselor! The difference between 35 and 36 at ANY school, no matter how competitive, will be irrelevant for admissions. At that point, it's all of the other stuff (extracurriculars, leadership, APs, SAT2s, rec letters, essays) that will make the difference. She has earned a ticket out of any further ACT/SAT testing!

 

My daughter was in exactly the same position with a 35 ACT sophomore year. Here in VA we have to submit testing scores annually for homeschoolers, so she did end up retaking junior year. It was a choice between that and the Iowa tests, and she made the decision. But...it was pointless as far as college admissions go (same score, & no it wasn't a fluke!).

 

[ETA: Another consideration is cost. Most of the school's on dd's list required that she send all test scores taken in high school. ACT charges separately for each testing date. And another thing: I was more concerned that dd's retake of a 35 would look like she was too focused on testing perfection.]

 

Another school in the region you're considering with a good math dept is St Olaf's. It might be worth a look for your daughter.

 

About the SAT 2 testing dates: my son had SAT subject test scores from sophomore year, and both Caltech and Carnegie Mellon were fine with it & accepted him. It's probably a good idea to ask them, though, if either of those schools is on your dd's list.

 

It's great to be back on WTM Boards.  I am realizing that I need to spend more time here benefiting from other people's wisdom.  Though I learned a thing or two from the meeting with the counselor, I should not have been surprised by some of the frustrations as a result of his recommendations without any real experience or knowledge.  At least it got me back here.

 

Thanks for everyone's suggestions.  Dd is planning to continue a rigorous currciulum of AP courses and dual enriollment, subject tests and PSAT, doing extracurricular activities that she loves, participating in meaningful volunteer/leadership activity, etc. that should make it clear that  her score was no "fluke."  I will definitely follow up on some of the specific programs and suggestions.

[Lori D.]

Hmm...subject tests.  To tell you the truth, I never really thought about this.  It just makes sense to me that when you have completed the coursework for the subject test, you take the test, no matter what grade you are in...

 

About 35 colleges require two SAT Subject tests for admission. Another few dozen "strongly recommend" having taken several SAT Subject tests to aid in the admission process.

[mjbucks1]

I just wanted to add that last week we were at at admissions talk given by 5 top tier schools.  I specifically asked the admissions representative from Harvard if they cared WHEN the tests were taken (ACT, SAT, SAT subject tests).  He said that any test taken in the previous FIVE years was fine.  I know all schools are different, but I would bet the majority of schools do not care. 

 

I would go ahead and have your dd take the SAT this fall, along with the PSAT.  I bet she well score well enough to be a NM Finalist, and she will have to have an SAT score to validate the PSAT score.  She might as well get that out of the way as well.  

 

Congratulations to your dd!!

[BlsdMama]

Whew!  A 35!  Nothing  to add but CONGRATULATIONS!

[Cosmos]

About 35 colleges require two SAT Subject tests for admission. Another few dozen "strongly recommend" having taken several SAT Subject tests to aid in the admission process.

 

It sounds to me like the student has taken some subject tests. The question is whether they need to be taken in junior or senior year to "count" with admissions officers. Have you ever heard of a requirement like that, Lori, or are SAT subject tests taken in 9th/10th just as valid?

[MBM]

It sounds to me like the student has taken some subject tests. The question is whether they need to be taken in junior or senior year to "count" with admissions officers. Have you ever heard of a requirement like that, Lori, or are SAT subject tests taken in 9th/10th just as valid?

 

SAT 2 subject tests taken in 9th and 10th are valid. Usually students in B&M schools will take them soon after completing a particular class.

[catz]

That's awesome!  Congrats to her! 

[LMV]

Our DD15 is in the same place with her ACT score and she tested this past fall. She will not retake the ACT.  She will take PSAT in the fall and then take SAT if she needs a confirmatory score for national merit.  She has already some SATII tests and some AP tests and will take some more over her junior and senior years.

 

 

[Lori D.]

...The question is whether they need to be taken in junior or senior year to "count" with admissions officers. Have you ever heard of a requirement like that, Lori, or are SAT subject tests taken in 9th/10th just as valid?

 

That I don't know. I would guess you have to check the policies of the colleges of interest who want SAT Subject tests.

 

While it doesn't answer this particular question, this SAT Subject Tests FAQ from Compass Prep has some really helpful info, including a chart on when which SAT Subjects are offered (not all tests are offered at every SAT testing date), and a chart listing how many questions each test has and a brief description of the test.

[Lori D.]

Congratulations! My son made a 35 on his first attempt, too. We saw no reason to retake it( same for his SAT). Forget about the school counselor. One at our local school suggested my son get his GED in order to have more choices on universities...

 

Congrats to your DS!

 

You are very wise to disregard the school counselor, as this is absolutely NOT correct. The GED or other high school equivalencies are only for adults who did not complete required credits to earn the diploma for high school graduation. Taking the GED can actually limit future options as far as military enlistment, and employment. Parent-awarded diplomas and transcripts are accepted by the U.S. Military, for college Federal Aid through FAFSA, and are accepted "as-is" at most universities in the U.S. Although a few colleges require homeschoolers to jump a few extra hoops for admission, *requiring* the GED is not one of those hoops.

[Teachin'Mine]

The only reason I can think of to re-take it is if it was done without writing.  If it was ACT with writing and 35, she's done!

 

I would suggest that she focus on the PSAT and SAT and SAT IIs as has been suggested.  Congratulations to her!

[angela in ohio]

My dd isn't retaking her 35. For a brief moment, the competitive side of her thought about how she could take it a dozen more times and try for perfect, but then she got over that. :D  Instead we are focusing on those SAT Subject Test scores.

 

I can understand the colleges wanting the Subject Tests to be recent, as that material could be forgotten over two years. I don't know many people who would take Subject Tests their sophomore year and then skate their junior and senior years, but I suppose it could happen. :D