When your husband needs career guidance, and you don't know where to turn?

[LisaKinVA]

Most of us are struggling enough to just guide our children through the myriad of questions surrounding life.  But, at least there seem to be plenty of resources for young people!

 

We'er in our mid-40's, and having to make some major life decisions.  At the end of our tour here, we will have 1 in college, 2 in high school, one in 3rd grade and one in 6th.

 

Worse case scenario has us going back to the states, and not having a job to go back to (cuts) -- with 90 days to find a job (at minimum, we would be able to live with my brother or my parents during that time).  Unfortunately, this option is NOT highly unlikely -- possibly 50-50.

 

Best case scenario is staying with his current employer, getting a promotion, and returning to the states in 2017 (at this point, this option does NOT seem likely).

 

Other options are all over the map.  But to sum up, 50-50 we go back at the same pay rate we have here (translates to a 20% real pay cut back home -- I'm not including what we call "LQA" in that cut.  There will be little to no chance for further advancement, plus a move somewhere else).  Or give up the "return rights" and change job series and hope something opens up somewhere when we have to return (this option does have more flexibility of where we could choose to live...but is not without risks).

 

DH does not have his masters degree.  There is no current employment path that will be helped with a masters degree.  A masters degree *may* help him become more employable in the contracting fields with private employers...but we have to be certain he wants to go that direction (and he's not certain).  It's a lot of money, at a really bad time to be spending a lot of money.  

 

Changes currently being made to overseas assignments for civilians may make it impossible to afford staying overseas (the, sure you can stay, but the cost of rent, etc. is on you...and no, we won't increase your pay rate to compensate...putting this in perspective, rents for overseas Americans are grossly inflated here.  Houses that would normally rent for $1,000/month routinely rent for 4x that amount.  Back in NoVA, the house we are renting would only be about $1900/month...we pay more than double that... and will essentially pay off the cost of this house and then some during our stay here. These changes would essentially force us back state-side).

 

If this were your husband and family...how would you discuss the options?  There are not a lot of people to talk to about this, because the circumstances are all new to everyone, and really affect only those who have recently been transplanted here.  Essentially, what do you do when it seems like all of the options kinda stink?

[3 ladybugs]

God always provides. It may not be ideal but He will show you if you are listening.

 

My DH was laid off in 2011 after the company he worked for closed. He spent the next 6 months working 40 hours a week trying to find a job in a dying field (sadly) he applied to over 160 jobs in that time and had about 5 interviews all over the world. Finally, he applied to a job at a little company that he knew he could do, but had no proof of that. It was right before Christmas and he figured he would hear anything till after the first of the year. To his shock, he got the job, and started working a week before Christmas. He has been promoted twice and still works there.

 

It isn't a job that he ever thought he would do, but he has found that it is opening more doors for him now then he ever would have had if he had stayed where he wanted to be (in the dying field). He is more marketable now then he was in 2011, and that brings me lots of comfort. During that time that he was laid off, we had a crisis of faith that made us question everything. A week before he got the job we even changed churches. God was there every step of the way clearly.

 

I would say to pray about your options. You will find the right path for your family.

[Southern Ivy]

Two books that I've heard mentioned a lot in regards to jobs, job changes, and not knowing what you want to do: 
48 Days to the Work You Love - Dan Miller 
Start: Punch Fear in the Face, Escape Average, and Do Work that Matters - Jon Acuff 

I wish I had some real advice. :( Sorry!

[elegantlion]

Well we through something similar on a more local level and it led to the implosion of my marriage, so I'll offer some suggestions with the "wisdom" of hindsight. 

 

First  make sure your spouse is honest with you about the struggles - emotional and tangible. Trying to redefine yourself as a man in your 40s is challenging. Second is to make sure he feels supported and realizes you are a team. Next, I would look for ways to offset income while he searches. IIRC you have some qualifications that could help you find some work. 

 

I would even consider part-time work for both to create one income, a sharing of responsibilities. 

 

Ex never wanted me to work and hid the truth about some of our situations. There was a lot more at hand, but looking back, I would have been served better by working in the evenings to supply some income while he tried to find the right job. 

 

:grouphug: It's a difficult place to be in. 

[DawnM]

Does he even want to stay in the same line of work?  You state that he might be more marketable if he were to get an MA, do most in his line of work have an MA?  Is there another line of work he is interested in that would require an MA that he could pursue?

 

 

[G5052]

Not the same situation, but we've been through this with disability issues, professional-level work normally done by people with at least a master's (he has a 2-year degree), and limitations that made going back to school impossible.

 

And yes, it worked out. I think the key was that we were ahead of the curve. We knew well ahead of the 90-day when his position was on the chopping block because he constantly asked and found someone who would tell him. The government usually doesn't do this quickly. So we had several possibilities lined up already.  But he did a lot of networking and made a lot of phone calls. We had a notebook with all of the contacts and information we got. In the end there was only a month with no pay, and he's been fine ever since and actually could retire this year.

 

:grouphug:

[Scarlett]

My biggest suggestion and the one that has served me well during major changes in my life over the last 5 years is to keep your expenses as low as possible. As in getting rid of car payments, reassessing college options, putting some in savings since you know things are so uncertain.

 

I wouldn't stay overseas with no return rights. Not unless he has already secured a good position there that he is happy with.

 

As far as actual career help....my first husband was in his early 30s trying to go back to college....and he couldn't decide what he wanted.....I was very practical in my thinking.....told him to look at the degrees offered locally and just pick one....that making a living wasn't always a dream come true thing."..sometimes it is just a job. Btw he makes a lot of money and I think he really likes his job. Side note I think that whole change of career led directly to the implosion of our marriage...not saying that would happen to anyone else but it did to us.

 

Dh and I have gone through this too....somewhat....due to a couple of layoffs since we got married. He was retrained in engineering when he broke his back....but his heart is with hands on stuff...and during lay offs he would take on side work....his spirit thrived but his body did not...and I told him he just has to be Practical and smart.....so he is back doing non physical work although he does get out of the office to go to job sites some so he enjoys that more than being in a cube 8 hours a day every day.

[Lanny]

You changed your name here.  What kind of contracting would he do, if he did that? I was a "job shopper" (Contractor).  I just updated my resume and have it on Monster and CareerBuilder and Dice, but I haven't worked for many years, so the possibility of a job assignment is very low for me. For someone with recent experience, depending on the discipline, it can range from poor to excellent.   I would suggest he spend time on any U.S. Government official boards, looking for what might be available in other departments of the government, or within his own department (which I believe he is doing) and also on boards that are not run by the government. Studying for and paying for an M.A. or M.S. degree, when you are under stress, financially and otherwise, would probably just add to the problems. I worked with a lot of people who had an M.S. degree (Math, Engineering, Physics) but most had a B.S. degree.  When one is TDY the expenses are very high and it is unusual one ends up in a low cost area with plentiful housing that's empty.   Making a career change in 40s is difficult and if possible I believe your DH should try to stay in something close to where his expertise is.  Sorry for the rambling answer without a solution. Our prayers are with your family..

[LisaKinVA]

I'm sorry, I should clarify the "return rights" -- we can return back to the states, that is not an issue, at issue is his right to return to the job he had prior to taking the overseas assignment.  The overseas assignment is a temporary one, and in order to encourage employees to take an overseas assignment, they "guarantee your job" when your temporary duty is completed.

 

In our case, within the first year of arriving here, we found out the organization was relocating. In the last 2 months, we have learned they were downsizing the organization by 1/3.  In the last month, we have learned that they are no longer truly guaranteeing his job will be there when our temporary duty is up -- but that they still expect us to return, and IF there is no job for dh upon our return, they will "help" dh find a job (hahahaha) or let him go within 90 days.  So, our "return rights" are not something we can count on.

 

If we stayed in this position (or similar) overseas, the gov't is changing the policy to make it difficult (next to impossible) to keep our living quarters assistance (pay for rent/utilities).  That would have to come out of our regular pay.  BUT, he would have a job.  It is possible to find less expensive housing -- just very difficult (or much smaller...we're living in about 2400 sq. ft. now, with about 1/3 acre of yard/drive/parking space).  Staying definitely means having zero right of return for a job, and means we go on "priority placement" (also a known joke...which means the gov't is supposed to give you priority for available jobs for which you are qualified.  You could be in limbo for years...)

 

If dh went to the private sector (the only place a Masters would be helpful), he would essentially work for a company he works with now -- just on the opposite side of the table.  He would represent company A to the gov't, vs. representing the gov't to company A.  A Masters also may not be 100% helpful.

 

If dh changes fields, he has more choices where we could go upon our return (for example...we could go back to DC, or possibly to the Houston area, or to Richmond, VA...vs. Norfolk).  

 

DH is very open with me regarding finances, etc.  He's working off of a budget I created, which allows us to pay off debt, save money, and still have money to eat, a decent school budget, and money for extra curricular activities.  Every option has some fairly big negative...and I have asked him to reach out (privately) to people he knows from back home (private company, within the gov't, other agencies, etc.).  He really doesn't want to go back to school right now...or ever.  Unless it would really help him be more employable.  He will have 20 years with the organization he is with in just 2 years, but right now feels like he is twisting in the wind.  Also, because of this other job opportunity (local job hire), we can't really just wait a few months until someone from the home office feels comfortable talking about the situation.  

 

It is very frustrating, because this position was supposed to be a career=builder, not a career-ender.  Top organizational management told dh nearly 2 years ago, that they needed more people like him at HQ who understood how the organization works in broader ways (dh has worked in every part of the organization, is one of the few people who can competently work through the financial system, has done contracting and now logistical management) and was told he would have excellent opportunities when we returned -- BUT, this was all prior to the completely unexpected re-organization and move that came about in the last year.  Now, people won't tell him anything.  Or, they ask him to talk to person A, who then says -- didn't person B talk to you?  And of course, person B says to talk to person A.  It doesn't leave you feeling very secure.  Of course, dh just had his annual review, which was spectacular (highest ratings), and how they appreciated his insight and understanding of how things work (globally) with the organization, and how he could cross apply information from different branches of the organization.  All of this would make someone think their job was secure (of course, I've been in that position -- but was let go because I just wasn't in the office, I was telecommuting, and when push came to shove, it's either to let go of the excellent employee you can essentially let go without having to do much face-to-face).  

 

 

[Spryte]

Off topic, as a side note: I'm stuck on this...

 

Where in NoVA are there house rentals for $1900 a month? I had the impression that your current house has multiple bedrooms. I'm asking for a friend who is moving to the area and needs a house for seven. We can't find anything under $2200 with more than two bedrooms near us.

[MysteryJen]

When my Dh had a career "crisis," we had 3 little ones under 4, school loans, a newly acquired mortgage, and lots of stress. He found a great psychologist who specialized in career stuff. It was the best money we ever spent. He got a new sense of his skills, strengths, and weaknesses. And a plan for job searches.

 

I highly recommend a neutral third party to talk to about his career.

[LisaKinVA]

Off topic, as a side note: I'm stuck on this...

 

Where in NoVA are there house rentals for $1900 a month? I had the impression that your current house has multiple bedrooms. I'm asking for a friend who is moving to the area and needs a house for seven. We can't find anything under $2200 with more than two bedrooms near us.

 

Fredericksburg...you have to go to the ex-urbs (pretty much).  We are still part of NoVA, and the DC statistical metropolitan area. Closer in...yeah, not going to find that. Our house is currently rented for $1900 a month...3300 finished square feet, plus 1800 square feet unfinished in the basement, on 3 acres.  You can find more square footage for $1900, without the land.

[shage]

When my Dh had a career "crisis," we had 3 little ones under 4, school loans, a newly acquired mortgage, and lots of stress. He found a great psychologist who specialized in career stuff. It was the best money we ever spent. He got a new sense of his skills, strengths, and weaknesses. And a plan for job searches.

 

I highly recommend a neutral third party to talk to about his career.

This.

 

Except for couples in their 40's with no babies or toddlers, the focus should be on career counseling for both. I know very few women who keep the SAHM gig without at least part-time work during midlife upheaval (career changes, health issues, kid college fees, un- or under-employment).

 

If a neutral 3rd party is not an option, take a sheet of paper and draw 3 columns. In the first column list all your options/scenarios. In the 2nd column, write job options and income for the primary wage earner for each scenario listed. In the 3rd column, do the same for you. If you stay overseas, would you have the right to work?

 

No income is highly stressful. But I have seen families successfully handle long periods of struggle provided at least some money was coming through the door.

[shage]

NM

 

 

(Eeek.  Phone posting failure.  Sorry guys.)

[shage]

NM

 

[shage]

NM

 

[shage]

NM

 

[shage]

NM

[shage]

NM

[Tap]

Honestly, unless he is returning to school, there isn't a lot he is really going to be able to do until the time comes.  If you are planning to stay in Italy for the next few years, I think you are just going to have to take the gamble and wait it out.  Maybe starting to look about a year before you plan to move back and make any minor adjustments at that time. If he has an opportunity to get extra training or certificates in different areas (even if it doesn't immediately apply to his job), then do so, even if it creates a bit of a work/life strain for a while.  That will show US employers that he was expanding his career while he was in Italy not just stagnant.

 

 

 

Save and pay down bills is obvious.

Don't get financially commited to one area (no mortgage long leases etc). 

 

 

DH has change jobs 3 1/2 times (weird story) in 5 yeas.  All the worry and fret before actually looking for a new job never amounted to anything.  The market and his skill set changed each time enough that the previous job search/prep/experiences didn't really help him when it came to look for a new one.  

[leeannpal]

We are sort of going through this, and our time we spent in China two years ago has contributed to the trouble my DH has had. Before we went to China, Dh worked for the state of Georgia for 10 years. We knew when we left for China his job was not guaranteed, and so we were not surprised when we returned that a hiring freeze was on in the state of Georgia. I was able to get a job teaching in Florida. Since then, he has tried to get a job with the state of Florida and has had 5 interviews-nothing. He got frustrated with that and fell back on security work like he did in the military. Currently, he works for Disney as an over night security agent. The pay is not great, but the benefits are awesome. Still, he would like to be in a position that affords a more stable lifestyle. He is often working 60-70 hours a week, so we can get ahead a little.

 

I'm glad you posted this. it is good to hear about job counseling. I had honestly not thought about that.

 

Best of luck in your decisions. It is hard. :(

[Lanny]

Lisa if your family  does not have a magicJack phone I strongly suggest that you consider buying one.  They won't ship them overseas, but you can buy one on Amazon (that's where I bought ours) or a friend can buy one for you and send it to you. We have a phone number in the USA and the phone is sitting here on my desk in Colombia.

http://www.magicjack.com/index.html

 

Ours is a magicJack 2014 Plus (possibly that's not the exact title but close) which came with 6 months of service, but now they have a newer model if you want one that comes with 12 months service.   You will need a different AC adapter for it, if you do not have standard AC service like in the states. Our AC service is just like in the states so everything that works there works here.   Until you get an AC adapter with the correct plug/voltage for your house, you can leave it plugged into a USB Port on your computer.

 

The idea of studying for a Masters is I believe, at this time, something you should discard.  

 

Working overseas is generally a very good addition to someones resume.  The son of one of my cousins is an F.B.I. Agent and several years ago he and his family  moved to a country I will not name here and they lived there for 2 or 3 years.  I thought it was great when they moved there and his parents visited them, 2 or 3 times while they lived there. They moved back to the states.  I spoke with his mother about 2 weeks ago. He'd been back there on a temporary assignment for 3 weeks. He told his mother that he NEVER wants to go back there.  Again, I believe it is good for his resume and career path.

[LisaKinVA]

Lisa if your family  does not have a magicJack phone I strongly suggest that you consider buying one.  They won't ship them overseas, but you can buy one on Amazon (that's where I bought ours) or a friend can buy one for you and send it to you. We have a phone number in the USA and the phone is sitting here on my desk in Colombia.

http://www.magicjack.com/index.html

 

 

 

We don't have magic jack, but we do have a US phone number (similar to what you describe).  

 

I do think the MBA is off the table.  We just don't see any scenario that it makes sense.  He could go to the private sector without one, and if they wanted hi to have one, they would most likely cover most of the costs (he has talked to a contact who did this).

 

He will be heading back stateside this summer to take some training courses (all are paid for).

 

Me?  I am working on something -- but honestly, I'm so busy with home schooling and preparing kids for college, I really can't do much more.  I have worked FT or PT from home for most of the past 18 years.  We tried the school thing with one of our youngest kids, and while it was okay, it was not nearly as good as her being home was, or has been.  The oldest three really can't take most of their core courses through the local schools unless we put them on a path of graduating early (which is NOT what they want to do...and that is the only way I'd really consider it).  June will make the first FULL year I haven't worked PT or FT since I was 15 years old.

[Scarlett]

I think you are better off focusing on your family instead of working right now Lisa.  I mean of course if push comes to shove and he can't find work when you get home that will be a different story. 

 

I hope you can find a way to keep this worry from robbing you of your fun time in Italy.  It would be hard for me....I give great advice though.  ;)

[Shellydon]

If I were looking at a major career change, I would look at an on-demand jobs list.  Something that shows where shortages are and what the salaries are for the field.   For example, in my field, there is a shortage or people and I get contacted 3 or more times each week to see if I will return to full time work for a 6 figure salary.    I would be searching for something in demand even if it meant continuing his education.  http://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/rankings