College visits are scheduled. What should we expect?

[Ann.without.an.e]

We have three visits scheduled in April.  We are doing a whirlwind tour of NC State, Chapel Hill, and Duke. 

 

We've never done this before.  This is just us checking out the campus, right?  They should in no way be making notes on us or dd at this point, correct? 

 

Thanks

 

 

ETA

 

We've added a second tour to Furman, Emory, and Oxford college.  Different week.  Each time we only have one night in each location to touch base with all three schools.  We just can't afford multiple nights.  Hopefully we can squeeze everything in :/ 

[momofkhm]

I don't think so, taking notes I mean.  I never felt like they were taking notes on us.  Make sure you realize that this is an advertisement.  They want you to spend your money at their school.

 

One note about UNC-CH, when we went a couple years ago to visit, dd got a meal voucher for a specific dining hall all the way across campus from where everything else was.  And then they wouldn't even let me in to sit with her!  I promised to not get any food, just sit there, but they wouldn't let me unless I paid.  The sweet thing was there were about 3 students who were willing to let me in on their pass so that I could.

 

We never visited Duke, no desire on dd's part.  But State is where she ended up.  State and UNC are two very different schools.  

 

Good Luck!

 

 

[Hoggirl]

I don't know about those three specific schools, but most visit days include at a minimum an information session and a tour. The information session will likely have presentations on admissions and FA. No one will be taking notes, but you should! ha ha! They all start to run together after awhile. Although, if it is a school that cares about "demonstrated interest" they will note that you did visit! The tour will likely have a student guide - you may or may not see the inside of a building. Sometimes the dorm tours are separate. Sometimes students can sign up to attend a class and sit in and listen. I highly recommend that if it is an option. If you have the opportunity to sit among students who are NOT guides and visit with them, take it. Good questions for guides or other students include, but aren't limited to:

 

--Why did you choose to attend here?

--What other school choices did you have and why did this school trump the others in your decision?

--What is the best thing about this school?

--If you could change one thing about this school, what would it be?

--How do most students make friends here?

--Tell me about Greek life (if it exists).

--What do students do for fun on the weekends?

--Do you find the academic environment to be competitive or collaborative?

--How hard is class registration? How good is advising? How easy is it to change majors?

 

Also ask any questions of interest to your particular dc. Whether it's accessiblity to music opportunities, clubs, religious organizations. We all have issues that matter more to us than others.

 

My best piece of advice - don't ask your dc about the visit right after it happens! Not even open-ended questions like, "What did you think? Did you like it?" Just leave and go get ice cream. It can be overwhelming and stressful for them (it's fun, too), but the reality of the process that looms ahead can kinda wig 'em out, and your asking about it (which they will receive as drilling no matter how nonchalant you are) compounds that. Wait. Let them bring up the topic. They will. :)

 

ETA: You, as the parent, hang at the back of the tour. Don't be *that* mom at the front asking all the annoying questions and monopolizing the guide's time. Encourage your dc to separate from you on the tour - Encourage him or her toward the front and you hang toward the back.

[Pawz4me]

They'll probably ask her to sign something at the end of the tour (a post card type info thing, usually).  They already know she signed up for the tour, but I'm guessing they want to make sure that those who signed up actually attended.  It demonstrates interest.

 

All the tours we went on worked like this -- First everybody meets together in a large room/auditorium and an admissions officer goes over their spiel about why theirs is the best school ever.  And then they'll split into smaller groups and a student will lead you on a walking tour of the campus.

 

The dining pass at UNC-CH is to the Rams Head dining hall, which is on south campus where the freshmen dorms are.  It's a long way from the main part of the campus.  Lenoir is the dining hall there. I personally would recommend skipping the free meal and heading to one of the (many) very good restaurants on Franklin Street. ;)

[8filltheheart]

We have never found strictly going on a  campus tour all that helpful by itself.  Making appointments with individual departments and meeting with the undergrad advisor or dean and sitting in on classes, otoh, has made a huge impact (both positive and negative).   

[Kareni]

We have three visits scheduled in April.  We are doing a whirlwind tour of NC State, Chapel Hill, and Duke. 

 

We've never done this before.  This is just us checking out the campus, right?  They should in no way be making notes on us or dd at this point, correct? 

 

I posted this back in September:

 

"My daughter who's home briefly for a time from South Korea went for a few days to visit friends at her alma mater.  (While I won't name the college, it's one of the Seven Sisters.)  One of her friends who just graduated is working for a year at the Admissions Office.  This friend is a first reader of applications, conducts tours and information sessions, interviews prospective students, and more.  My daughter shared a couple of tidbits that I found interesting.

 

First, those who write thank you letters after taking a guided tour and attending an information session (these are a package deal) or being interviewed are given a point towards admission.

 

Second, those students who are inattentive during the tour (by wearing head phones or ear buds, for example) lose a point.  (I know that discussions often arise about what a student should wear during tours; however, my daughter said that topic didn't come up.)"

 

Regards,

Kareni

[Ann.without.an.e]

ETA: You, as the parent, hang at the back of the tour. Don't be *that* mom at the front asking all the annoying questions and monopolyzing the guide's time. Encourage your dc to separate from you on the tour - Encourage him or her toward the front and you hang toward the back.

 

 

 

Thanks for the great info and advice.  I've already told dd to google and read some blogs about what to look for in college visits.  I told her that I would drive her there and possibly pop in with a question or two when appropriate since I am her guidance counselor but for the most part this is all her. 

[Ann.without.an.e]

We have never found strictly going on a  campus tour all that helpful by itself.  Making appointments with individual departments and meeting with the undergrad advisor or dean and sitting in on classes, otoh, has made a huge impact (both positive and negative).   

 

 

So how do you go about such things?  Especially when she doesn't know what she wants to major in  :crying:   She's torn between several options...she loves it all, haha.

[Ann.without.an.e]

I posted this back in September:

 

"My daughter who's home briefly for a time from South Korea went for a few days to visit friends at her alma mater.  (While I won't name the college, it's one of the Seven Sisters.)  One of her friends who just graduated is working for a year at the Admissions Office.  This friend is a first reader of applications, conducts tours and information sessions, interviews prospective students, and more.  My daughter shared a couple of tidbits that I found interesting.

 

First, those who write thank you letters after taking a guided tour and attending an information session (these are a package deal) or being interviewed are given a point towards admission.

 

Second, those students who are inattentive during the tour (by wearing head phones or ear buds, for example) lose a point.  (I know that discussions often arise about what a student should wear during tours; however, my daughter said that topic didn't come up.)"

 

Regards,

Kareni

 

 

 

This is all great to know.  I wondered if dress is important.  I want her to dress comfortably.  Great to know about the thank you notes.  Who would you address such a note to?  general admissions?

[Pawz4me]

This is all great to know.  I wondered if dress is important.  I want her to dress comfortably.  Great to know about the thank you notes.  Who would you address such a note to?  general admissions?

 

I can't address the thank you note issue, but I can wholeheartedly assure you that your DD won't lose anything by not being attentive during the tour at Duke, NCSU or UNC-CH, nor will anyone note how she dresses.   Unless things have changed drastically in the past couple of years, there's absolutely no way anyone would know who she is.  There are no name tags or anything like that.  The tour groups tend to be anywhere from large to humongous, and very anonymous.

[Hoggirl]

Thanks for the great info and advice. I've already told dd to google and read some blogs about what to look for in college visits. I told her that I would drive her there and possibly pop in with a question or two when appropriate since I am her guidance counselor but for the most part this is all her.

Argh! Sorry for the misspelling of "monopolizing." Good grief!! Why don't I proof before I post! Then quoted so will live in infamy! ha ha! I would go with her to all of it. We always sat with ds in the info sessions but kept our distance on the tours. There were always plenty of parents there, so I don't think you need to just drop her off. ;)

[clementine]

Tours were very helpful for our dd.  

 

Our tour guides were a big part of our first impression.  While on your tour, ask as many questions as you have.  Also, at all of the colleges we toured, the application fee was waived if we filled out a paper application while there.  We always met with an admissions counselor too, just for about 15-30 minutes or so.  Our tour groups varied in size from about 5 people to 25 people.  

[momofkhm]

The tour groups tend to be anywhere from large to humongous, and very anonymous.

 

I can't agree with this!  Our first official tour at NCSU was in the spring, in the middle of the week and we were one of three parent-child pairs.  It was great b/c all our questions were answered and every child got a free t-shirt.

[bettyandbob]

I think if you are visiting small schools the suggestion for thank you notes and extra attention to behavior and dress on tours is probably important.

 

In our experience, we have stuck to in state publicly funded schools. They do keep records of who visited, so making the visit is good. I'd suggest dressing neatly, but you don't have to go way out of the realm of teen attire to be acceptable. For example, we visited UVA on a very hot September day (football Saturday--do avoid that if you can, at large schools). Most of the couple hundred teens were wearing shorts in and nice short sleeved shirt (plain new looking tee or polo). There was one student wearing his Governor's School shirt--came off as bragging to the other potential applicants to me. No one was wearing booty shorts or ripped things. 

 

We visited smaller state schools where dress was similar and we got personal attention in tour groups of 10 (3 families) or less. 

 

I think you can still get a feel for the school even if your dd is not ready to declare a major. At one school our guide talked a little about how he had changed majors 3 or 4 times among some very different things and he was still graduating within 4 years (a great thing for a parent to hear). 

[Pawz4me]

I can't agree with this!  Our first official tour at NCSU was in the spring, in the middle of the week and we were one of three parent-child pairs.  It was great b/c all our questions were answered and every child got a free t-shirt.

 

I don't think we did any college tour that had less than 50 people.  That was at Washington & Lee, and it was by far the smallest tour group.  I'm not good at estimating numbers, but I'd say there was at least 200 when we toured UNC-CH.  But most of our tours were in the summer and a few in the fall.  None in the spring.

[lmrich]

And yet... dressing appropriately and being attentive on a tour as well as writing a thank you notes will not hurt her in any way. I think that is excellent advice!

 

[EmilyK]

We are on a trip now doing several of these schools. Because in many places it is spring break the groups are huge and no one would know who we are. We are at the stage of early reconnaissance so I think the info session and tour are helpful. The child registers in advance and so is in their system if they track demonstrated interest. Duke does not.

[8filltheheart]

So how do you go about such things?  Especially when she doesn't know what she wants to major in  :crying:   She's torn between several options...she loves it all, haha.

 

She simply needs to contact the depts she is interested in and arrange a meeting.  She can request to sit in on a class with whomever she contacts.  My kids typically have contacted the dept first by phone and have asked for a specific name to make contact with.  They have then contacted that person by email.  Most of the time the secretaries answering the phone are very helpful.

 

FWIW, I agree about the group tour at NCSU being anonymous.  Our group tour there was useless.  We were led around by a young woman who couldn't answer any questions, didn't know which building to direct us to for specific depts, etc.   

[FaithManor]

It is going to vary by school, but I would expect at minimum a thorough tour of the campus, opportunity to sit in on a class, opportunity to meet with financial aid to ask pointed questions  plus most definitely lunch on campus for everyone in my party, a faculty interview with full time faculty not adjunct and for that person to not be rushed - generally a half hour set aside, opportunity to ask questions of students on campus in places like the math labs, the writing center, and what I would really hope for would be the opportunity to meet up with a couple of students in my child's intended major and so he or she could ask questions out of earshot of the tour guide. When our kids sign up for campus tours, they usually send an email request for these extras and just about every time, these requests have been accommodated.

 

Some schools will really roll out the red carpet and hand out tickets to events on campus, free t-shirts, etc. I think that dd's "C U Friday" campus tour shirt from Cedarville is just now wearing out 7 years later, LOL! But, don't expect those kinds of freebies. Not every admission's department has that kind of budget.

[Hoggirl]

I don't think we did any college tour that had less than 50 people. That was at Washington & Lee, and it was by far the smallest tour group. I'm not good at estimating numbers, but I'd say there was at least 200 when we toured UNC-CH. But most of our tours were in the summer and a few in the fall. None in the spring.

Our smallest was at Harvey Mudd College. Just us and one other family! With two guides! It was great! It was probably the most thorough tour we had anywhere. They took us in many buildings, showed us their own personal dorm rooms, etc. My ds did not wind up applying there - even though he attended a STEM Charter school and is good in math and science, it wasn't really his thing. We just went because we were out there looking at Pomona and CMC.

[Kareni]

 

First, those who write thank you letters after taking a guided tour and attending an information session (these are a package deal) or being interviewed are given a point towards admission.

 

 

 Great to know about the thank you notes.  Who would you address such a note to?  general admissions?

 

Others have made the valid point that this is most likely to be important when visiting smaller colleges.

 

If interviewing, you'd definitely want your daughter to address her note to the interviewer.  If you took a tour, the tour guide would (one hopes) introduce her or himself.  I'd address a tour thank you to the tour guide or send it to the admissions office and mention the tour guide's name (if it is known).

 

Enjoy your visits!

 

Regards,

Kareni

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

We toured a couple bigger schools last summer and have some smaller ones scheduled this summer. 

 

I encouraged my kids to sit and stand up front, ask questions that were relevant and appropriate to the situation (if they had any, that is) and required them to dress decently.  This typically meant a neat pair of shorts or pants (no ill fitting, ripped up jeans) and a plain t-shirt or polo shirt for ds and a nice short sleeved shirt or blouse for dd.  They were comfortable and felt themselves but were neither overdressed nor inappropriate.  They didn't have interviews during these visits. 

 

Lots of walking and heat-bring water and comfortable shoes.  At least one campus gave us all water bottles before the tour-much appreciated. (The same school also passed out umbrellas when it started to drizzle.)

 

 

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I don't think we did any college tour that had less than 50 people. That was at Washington & Lee, and it was by far the smallest tour group. I'm not good at estimating numbers, but I'd say there was at least 200 when we toured UNC-CH. But most of our tours were in the summer and a few in the fall. None in the spring.

Really depends on timing and school. We toured 3 public schools that were all well regarded in the state. No walking around group exceeded 20 people. In most cases it was 5-6 potential students with families.

 

In each case we'd signed up for the tour online a day to a week in advance. There was a check in sheet so the schools knew that we'd attended.

 

Also at each school I was able to have good conversations with the adcon who read homeschooler apps or get an email contact for that specific adcon.

 

Only one of these schools is what I'd consider large. So maybe that is part of the difference. Also these visits were over the summer or in the fall.

[Cosmos]

I don't think we did any college tour that had less than 50 people.  That was at Washington & Lee, and it was by far the smallest tour group.  I'm not good at estimating numbers, but I'd say there was at least 200 when we toured UNC-CH.  But most of our tours were in the summer and a few in the fall.  None in the spring.

 

How can you hear anything the tour guide says with a group that large? I'm having trouble even picturing this. Do you mean you were walking in a group of 200 people around a college campus?

[Miss Mousie]

Some schools will really roll out the red carpet and hand out tickets to events on campus, free t-shirts, etc. I think that dd's "C U Friday" campus tour shirt from Cedarville is just now wearing out 7 years later, LOL! But, don't expect those kinds of freebies. Not every admission's department has that kind of budget.

 

<toddles off to search board for threads about schools with the best swag>

 

Hey, if we hit enough schools, I won't have to buy the kid any shirts!   ;)

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

How can you hear anything the tour guide says with a group that large? I'm having trouble even picturing this. Do you mean you were walking in a group of 200 people around a college campus?

 

We toured one school last summer that had a rather large group of students and family in the info session but then they introduced the 8 or so students who would lead tours...the groups were much smaller then.

 

[Pawz4me]

How can you hear anything the tour guide says with a group that large? I'm having trouble even picturing this. Do you mean you were walking in a group of 200 people around a college campus?

 

Oh no.  Sorry for the confusion.  The entire groups were very large for the initial meeting and speech by an admissions person.  Then for the walking tours the groups were separated into smaller groups that were led by student guides.  Again, I'm not good at estimating but I'd say most of our walking groups were composed of twenty or so students and parents.

 

OTOH, my niece attends a very small college and is working as a tour guide.  She says she often takes just one student/family on the walking tour.  But it's a really tiny, not well known school that doesn't attract massive numbers of prospective students like big state schools (NCSU and UNC-CH) or top private schools (Duke)..

[RegGuheert]

I just wanted to answer the title question: "What should be expect?"

 

My answer: "Expect to be surprised!"

 

Based on our experiences, expect to find turn-offs at the schools you thought would be the best fit and also expect that you might be duly impressed with schools which were second choices.  You can learn a lot about the culture of a college when you visit, but only if you spend some time away from admissions and interact with the students and professors directly.

 

Campus visits made a big difference in the decision DD22 made for her college experience.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Oh no. Sorry for the confusion. The entire groups were very large for the initial meeting and speech by an admissions person. Then for the walking tours the groups were separated into smaller groups that were led by student guides. Again, I'm not good at estimating but I'd say most of our walking groups were composed of twenty or so students and parents.

 

OTOH, my niece attends a very small college and is working as a tour guide. She says she often takes just one student/family on the walking tour. But it's a really tiny, not well known school that doesn't attract massive numbers of prospective students like big state schools (NCSU and UNC-CH) or top private schools (Duke)..

Ah in that case maybe our experiences weren't that different. All three info sessions were in large rooms that could have fit a couple hundred. One school had only three students touring so just one walk around group. The other two split up some.

 

Fwiw, I try to hang back and not ask a lot of questions. But I'm glad we've all gone on the tours because we each pick up on some different aspects. We usually grab lunch together and talk about what we thought, including the subtle or not subtle sales pitch aspects.

 

Don't be afraid to ask specific questions (I mean the touring student should pipe up). We toured VA Tech and it covered very little about the Corps of Cadets because none of the visiting students indicted an interest. (Even though at least one of them is interested.)

 

Also don't be afraid to follow up with admissions if something on the tour seems off. One guide said something relating to campus security that seemed odd. We happened to run into a campus police officer on the way back to the visitors' center and asked about it. He not only clarified the answer but turned around to go into the visitors' center and make sure the correct info was being put out. (This was mostly the student guide being clueless about the difference between facilities maintenance folks and campus police.)

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

I just wanted to answer the title question: "What should be expect?"

 

My answer: "Expect to be surprised!"

 

 

Exactly!

 

After a couple tours we were at a public ivy...  Our family had been having an ongoing conversation about time management at college and it was something that was never brought up during a tour.  So we asked our student tour guide-how many hours a day in class and how many hours a day for homework.  The student said other than some quick reviews between classes the students at her public ivy spend about 1-2 hours a day on homework, unless finishing a large paper or studying for finals.  This was certainly not the answer I was expecting at an institution with a reputation for academic rigor.

 

Of course there were lots of pleasant surprises, such as when we discovered we like somewhere much more in person than on their website.

 

[bettyandbob]

Exactly!

 

After a couple tours we were at a public ivy... Our family had been having an ongoing conversation about time management at college and it was something that was never brought up during a tour. So we asked our student tour guide-how many hours a day in class and how many hours a day for homework. The student said other than some quick reviews between classes the students at her public ivy spend about 1-2 hours a day on homework, unless finishing a large paper or studying for finals. This was certainly not the answer I was expecting at an institution with a reputation for academic rigor.

 

Of course there were lots of pleasant surprises, such as when we discovered we like somewhere much more in person than on their website.

 

The answer to that question will be different at every public ivy and every school. One might follow with "And how much time for you study on the weekend to get a clearer picture." Also consider tour guides font necessarily represent the average student. They tend to be very involved in campus activities and high performing academically.

[Ann.without.an.e]

I just wanted to answer the title question: "What should be expect?"

 

My answer: "Expect to be surprised!"

 

 

 

 

Funny that you say this....we just visited Wake Forest.  It wasn't seriously on our radar.  We visited only because we've heard they have great aid.  DD is in love.  She would have signed on the dotted line if they'd asked her, haha.  She has lots more visits to go though so we will see.

[MariaT]

Be prepared-- these college visits could be great material for college app essays, if you are organized.

 

Here's what happened to us:

Last spring my oldest DD did college visits with my husband. Several weeks before each visit we looked through the department faculty lists on the uni websites and he picked 2-3 profs he wanted to talk to. He emailed the profs, explained he would be on campus, and said he would love to get together to talk about the prof's work. DS  read thru the CVs of the profs on the way to the schools. The faculty at almost every school was very welcoming. At his dream school he met with a Lit prof, and had a long conversation about the prof's most recent studies, and DS's most recent interests. It was a very spirited discussion, with both DS and the prof writing down ideas and notes. The prof recommended DS read a book by James Agee, so DS texted me to get that book for him. A few weeks later DS was back in that area, visiting a different school. He had read the book, emailed the prof and asked to stop by again, and the prof said, great! So DS and the lit prof had a second good conversation. DS was thrilled that he was having intellectually interesting talks with possible future professors. It was a very, very positive experience.

 

In the fall as he wrote his applications, his dream school had a separate essay question that was something like, "Tell us about an interesting interaction or conversation you have had in the last year." So DS wrote about his conversations with that school's lit prof. And he got in. And the thing is, because he was talking to faculty, he never had time for the tours. My husband took the tours and did the info sessions.

 

Good luck! It's an exciting time!

Maria

 

 

[Pawz4me]

Funny that you say this....we just visited Wake Forest.  It wasn't seriously on our radar.  We visited only because we've heard they have great aid.  DD is in love.  She would have signed on the dotted line if they'd asked her, haha.  She has lots more visits to go though so we will see.

 

When we visited Wake Forest, all four of us (youngest DS was with us, too) looked at each other when walking to the car and almost simultaneously said "I want to go to Wake Forest!"  It's a truly impressive school.

 

They did meet our need (with loans included).  But unfortunately our EFC is astronomical, so there wasn't a lot of need for WF to meet.  And in the end it didn't make sense for us to pay almost two and a half times as much for DS to attend WF as it does for him to go to Chapel Hill (especially since Chapel Hill is ranked significantly higher in his desired major).

 

But still . . very nice school.

[Ann.without.an.e]

When we visited Wake Forest, all four of us (youngest DS was with us, too) looked at each other when walking to the car and almost simultaneously said "I want to go to Wake Forest!"  It's a truly impressive school.

 

They did meet our need (with loans included).  But unfortunately our EFC is astronomical, so there wasn't a lot of need for WF to meet.  And in the end it didn't make sense for us to pay almost two and a half times as much for DS to attend WF as it does for him to go to Chapel Hill (especially since Chapel Hill is ranked significantly higher in his desired major).

 

But still . . very nice school.

 

 

 

Yes, I felt that way too....I want to go here, haha.

 

It is an expensive school but I don't expect our EFC to be too high anywhere.  We will have an EFC, just not really high.  That is life with 4 kids and a tight income ;)

 

Thanks for your thoughts.

[Ann.without.an.e]

Be prepared-- these college visits could be great material for college app essays, if you are organized.

 

Here's what happened to us:

Last spring my oldest DD did college visits with my husband. Several weeks before each visit we looked through the department faculty lists on the uni websites and he picked 2-3 profs he wanted to talk to. He emailed the profs, explained he would be on campus, and said he would love to get together to talk about the prof's work. DS  read thru the CVs of the profs on the way to the schools. The faculty at almost every school was very welcoming. At his dream school he met with a Lit prof, and had a long conversation about the prof's most recent studies, and DS's most recent interests. It was a very spirited discussion, with both DS and the prof writing down ideas and notes. The prof recommended DS read a book by James Agee, so DS texted me to get that book for him. A few weeks later DS was back in that area, visiting a different school. He had read the book, emailed the prof and asked to stop by again, and the prof said, great! So DS and the lit prof had a second good conversation. DS was thrilled that he was having intellectually interesting talks with possible future professors. It was a very, very positive experience.

 

In the fall as he wrote his applications, his dream school had a separate essay question that was something like, "Tell us about an interesting interaction or conversation you have had in the last year." So DS wrote about his conversations with that school's lit prof. And he got in. And the thing is, because he was talking to faculty, he never had time for the tours. My husband took the tours and did the info sessions.

 

Good luck! It's an exciting time!

Maria

 

 

I love this story.   We have had a difficult time finding schools that will allow dd to sit in on classes or talk to a professor  :/  Your DS contacted them directly?  Maybe that is our problem, we need to contact the professor directly!

 

Thanks so much

[creekland]

Funny that you say this....we just visited Wake Forest.  It wasn't seriously on our radar.  We visited only because we've heard they have great aid.  DD is in love.  She would have signed on the dotted line if they'd asked her, haha.  She has lots more visits to go though so we will see.

 

FWIW, there's a gal from our school who is currently in her sophomore year at Wake Forest and she loves it.  She was fortunate enough to receive a full scholarship (merit) from them and turned down places like Stanford (no merit), Vanderbilt (full merit), and U Miami (full merit) to go to Wake.

 

It almost makes me wish we had looked at the school, but middle son got turned off by their mascot... (kinda a dumb reason, but when one is cutting schools, a reason is a reason.)

[8filltheheart]

Yes, I felt that way too....I want to go here, haha.

 

It is an expensive school but I don't expect our EFC to be too high anywhere. We will have an EFC, just not really high. That is life with 4 kids and a tight income ;)

 

Thanks for your thoughts.

You need to understand what your EFC means. It is the MINIMUM you are expected to pay. It does not equate to what you will be required to pay. You need to investigate meeting full need without loans schools Bc MOST do not agree to meet full need. Read the cry thread. You'll see many students are gapped. Make sure to include schools that you know you can afford. FA at schools like HPY does not translate equivalently across other schools just bc your EFC is low. You can have a low EFC at some schools and still be expected to pay a hefty chunk.

[Ann.without.an.e]

You need to understand what your EFC means. It is the MINIMUM you are expected to pay. It does not equate to what you will be required to pay. You need to investigate meeting full need without loans schools Bc MOST do not agree to meet full need. Read the cry thread. You'll see many students are gapped. Make sure to include schools that you know you can afford. FA at schools like HPY does not translate equivalently across other schools just bc your EFC is low. You can have a low EFC at some schools and still be expected to pay a hefty chunk.

 

 

No, I really don't quite understand.  I understand that many schools will not meet all need and there will be a gap.  Schools that claim to meet all need though...will those also have that large gap?  This process is so confusing to me.  So dd should not look at schools like Wake Forest if we cannot afford a huge family contribution (we can't)?  Should she limit herself to state schools?  I have been led to believe that the private schools which are heavy on need-based aid are better options for us.  I guess I am wrong.

 

 

If it helps, when I run the EFC calculator it comes up with $4500 with one calculator and $5200 with another.  Honestly, we can't afford that though.  We were hoping that some miracle would happen to cover most of it or that dd would only need to have a loan of around $7,000 or less per year as her total.  Am I completely off-base :/

[8filltheheart]

No, I really don't quite understand.  I understand that many schools will not meet all need and there will be a gap.  Schools that claim to meet all need though...will those also have that large gap?  This process is so confusing to me.  So dd should not look at schools like Wake Forest if we cannot afford a huge family contribution (we can't)?  Should she limit herself to state schools?  I have been led to believe that the private schools which are heavy on need-based aid are better options for us.  I guess I am wrong.

 

 

If it helps, when I run the EFC calculator it comes up with $4500 with one calculator and $5200 with another.  Honestly, we can't afford that though.  We were hoping that some miracle would happen to cover most of it or that dd would only need to have a loan of around $7,000 or less per year as her total.  Am I completely off-base :/

 

You have to do your research school by school.  We can't even look at meet full need schools b/c we just cannot meet our EFC for any school.  We go school by school and find out how much they offer in merit, etc.  We look at low cost schools in general, etc.   But, I would rather my kids graduate without debt than with their having $30,000 in debt regardless.  I am just not convinced rankings really make that much of a difference.

 

Try reading these articles:

http://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/paying-for-college/articles/2014/09/15/colleges-and-universities-that-claim-to-meet-full-financial-need

http://blog.collegegreenlight.com/blog/colleges-that-meet-100-of-student-financial-need/

 

Do not rely on the FAFSA type calculators.  You need to go to specific schools and run their NPC.  You need to know whether or not they require the CSS on top of FAFSA.  

[Ann.without.an.e]

You have to do your research school by school.  We can't even look at meet full need schools b/c we just cannot meet our EFC for any school.  We go school by school and find out how much they offer in merit, etc.  We look at low cost schools in general, etc.   But, I would rather my kids graduate without debt than with their having $30,000 in debt regardless.  I am just not convinced rankings really make that much of a difference.

 

Try reading these articles:

http://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/paying-for-college/articles/2014/09/15/colleges-and-universities-that-claim-to-meet-full-financial-need

http://blog.collegegreenlight.com/blog/colleges-that-meet-100-of-student-financial-need/

 

Do not rely on the FAFSA type calculators.  You need to go to specific schools and run their NPC.  You need to know whether or not they require the CSS on top of FAFSA.  

 

 

This is probably a completely stupid question and I apologize for my ignorance.  I hear that you shouldn't apply ED unless you don't need aid.  Do you think this applies to a school like DUKE, since I've heard they truly do meet full need? 

[JanetC]

No, I really don't quite understand.  I understand that many schools will not meet all need and there will be a gap.  Schools that claim to meet all need though...will those also have that large gap?  This process is so confusing to me.  So dd should not look at schools like Wake Forest if we cannot afford a huge family contribution (we can't)?  Should she limit herself to state schools?  I have been led to believe that the private schools which are heavy on need-based aid are better options for us.  I guess I am wrong.

The schools that meet 100% of need meet 100% of THEIR calculated need, not 100% of the Federal model. Some schools are very generous, some are not.

 

Whether a private school or a public school will be cheaper depends very much on your geographical and financial circumstances. The "private schools are cheaper" is very true in a state like California where the state schools don't offer much aid and there are lots of private schools competing for students offering great packages.

 

Someone posted a link to the actual FAFSA formulas if you want to calculate your exact federal EFC.

 

http://ifap.ed.gov/efcformulaguide/attachments/091913EFCFormulaGuide1415.pdf

 

(I'm in shock with mine...)

 

Wake Forest appears to be a generous school:

 

100% of students with need offered "something," average need met is 99%, full need met is 80% of students, and typical financial aid package is 71% free money, 29% loans/jobs.

 

If you are in the top 25% of applicants, maybe expect to do a little better than the "average" and if you are in the bottom 25%, perhaps a little worse.

 

Someone is complaining on another thread about not getting aid from Penn State. Their numbers are:

 

76% of students with need offered "something," average need met is 54%, full need met is 8% of students, typical financial aid package is 42% free money, 58% loans/jobs.

 

If you were applying to this state school and this private school, the private school financial aid package would almost certainly be better.  But, it really will depend on which schools you are talking about.

 

Another state school comparison might be the big state school in the same state as Wake Forest.

 

NC State:

 

75% of students offered "something", average need met is 81%, full need met is 26% of students, typical package is 57% free money, 43% loans/jobs.

 

Better odds of getting a decent package than Penn State, but Wake Forest could still be very competitive when all the numbers are added up.

[8filltheheart]

This is probably a completely stupid question and I apologize for my ignorance. I hear that you shouldn't apply ED unless you don't need aid. Do you think this applies to a school like DUKE, since I've heard they truly do meet full need?

Someone else needs to answer this bc we would never apply ED bc of the unknowns in terms of affordability. The one issue with ED is that it does limit where you can apply. If you KNOW you can afford it and don't care if you can't apply to other select schools, then it is a risk you take by hoping for acceptance.

[JanetC]

Someone else needs to answer this bc we would never apply ED bc of the unknowns in terms of affordability. The one issue with ED is that it does limit where you can apply. If you KNOW you can afford it and don't care if you can't apply to other select schools, then it is a risk you take by hoping for acceptance.

 

I agree -- avoid ED if financial aid is important.

 

http://www.bestcollegefit.com/blog/archives/1350

 

 

 

 

[Ann.without.an.e]

I agree -- avoid ED if financial aid is important.

 

http://www.bestcollegefit.com/blog/archives/1350

 

 

 

Good to think about.  At this point my dd is head over heels for Wake so I don't see us applying ED to Duke anyway.  Even if she loves Duke too, I can't imagine her wanting to completely close the door to Wake altogether.  We'll see.

[MariaT]

 

We have had a difficult time finding schools that will allow dd to sit in on classes or talk to a professor  :/  Your DS contacted them directly?  Maybe that is our problem, we need to contact the professor directly!

 

 

Yes, he emailed the profs directly, with a subject line that said something like "Passionate high schooler hopes to meet you re literature" or philosophy or film or whatever. I think he attached a resume, which they never read. We did not go through admissions. In the beginning, I called admissions to ask what the procedure would be, and they all said we were free to set it up ourselves.  Oberlin, Wesleyan and Yale profs were all eager and enthusiastic to meet, and DS had great discussions with them. They all said they had no connection to admissions, but he wasn't meeting with them to get an in on admissions. He just wanted to talk to the profs about their work to get a feel for the kind  of intellectual environment that existed on campus.

We only had 2 disappointments. Hampshire faculty did not return his emails, even after I called the film department and asked the administrative assistant if there was a particular procedure DS should follow. A Hampshire administrator did agree to meet, but DS said it was not very interesting as the administrator had stopped his own academic work years ago. At Columbia, one prof actually scolded DS in her response, saying that 30,000 students apply and faculty can't be bothered to meet with prospective students.

We scratched those two schools off his list. We decided that this approach really showed the relationship between faculty and students, and the level of accessibility (or lack thereof) the students have to faculty.

 

Good luck!!

Maria