Greta Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 How good are web-based services such as LegalZoom and LegacyWriter, etc? The person we would want to be the guardian of our daughter in the event of our deaths is not a family member. Is that a significant legal complication, or not a big deal? What I mean is, does that change things enough that we should hire a lawyer, or is an online will enough? Also, how do you choose an executor? Can that be the same person that we want to be our daughter's guardian? Thanks for any help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 I am no expert but I have settled several family estates. I would suggest hiring a lawyer if you are dealing with non-familial custody of a child, unless there is really no family to speak of that might challenge your decision. And have a back up option. Things happen. Situations change. I also think the executor should not be the same person that gets custody. For anything being held in trust for your child, you need a neutral 3rd party or the situation could turn very ugly. Also, if you have ANY family heirlooms that you want your child to get, WRITE THEM DOWN and take photographs. Don't assume anything will just automatically be given to her. Also write down why it is important, why it is a family heirloom, etc. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanny Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 I have no experience with online services so have no comments about those you asked about. However, I would *strongly* suggest that your new Will(s) include information about backups and "what if" situations. What if the person you want to leave $ to passed away before you did? What if the person you want to be the Guardian is unable or unwilling to do that or has passed away? What if the Executor you designate cannot do the job? I went to an Attorney in Texas for my first Will and we had an Attorney here in Colombia prepare my 2nd Will. BTW, if you should ever move from one state to another state, or another country, you need to write a new Will that complies with the laws of your new state. Great idea for you to be doing this, because people who die without having a Will have their state apply it's laws to their estate. Explain anything unusual in your Will, so if challenged it will stand up in court... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 I have no experience with online services so have no comments about those you asked about. However, I would *strongly* suggest that your new Will(s) include information about backups and "what if" situations. What if the person you want to leave $ to passed away before you did? What if the person you want to be the Guardian is unable or unwilling to do that or has passed away? What if the Executor you designate cannot do the job? I went to an Attorney in Texas for my first Will and we had an Attorney here in Colombia prepare my 2nd Will. BTW, if you should ever move from one state to another state, or another country, you need to write a new Will that complies with the laws of your new state. Great idea for you to be doing this, because people who die without having a Will have their state apply it's laws to their estate. Explain anything unusual in your Will, so if challenged it will stand up in court... What Lanny said.... :laugh: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMJ Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 I am no expert but I have settled several family estates. I would suggest hiring a lawyer if you are dealing with non-familial custody of a child, unless there is really no family to speak of that might challenge your decision. And have a back up option. Things happen. Situations change. I also think the executor should not be the same person that gets custody. For anything being held in trust for your child, you need a neutral 3rd party or the situation could turn very ugly. Also, if you have ANY family heirlooms that you want your child to get, WRITE THEM DOWN and take photographs. Don't assume anything will just automatically be given to her. Also write down why it is important, why it is a family heirloom, etc. Be very specific when writing them down. When my mom died my uncle, executor of her estate, bullied me out of her desk (a cherished memento to me, a trophy of family power for him). He got away with it with the support of their siblings (my aunts and uncle) because he claimed a verbal promise that he could have it. If you can afford to do so I'd recommend having an executor who is NOT named in the will and has no stake in getting anything out of it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Be very specific when writing them down. When my mom died my uncle, executor of her estate, bullied me out of her desk (a cherished memento to me, a trophy of family power for him). He got away with it with the support of their siblings (my aunts and uncle) because he claimed a verbal promise that he could have it. If you can afford to do so I'd recommend having an executor who is NOT named in the will and has no stake in getting anything out of it. What AMJ said, too. :) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Oh, and EVERY time you lend out something of value, like tools, or whatever, WRITE IT DOWN and sign your name. Seriously. If something happens to you, no one may know to retrieve the item and the person may not return it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greta Posted March 10, 2015 Author Share Posted March 10, 2015 Thanks for all the replies! Okay, so we should: 1. Choose someone else besides the guardian to be the executor. Maybe we could make our priest the executor instead. I trust him completely to handle things just the way we would want. But, in any event, it should be someone who won't be inheriting anything from us, right? 2. Document, with pictures, which belongings we want to go to whom. 3. Hire a lawyer since we don't want next of kin to get custody of our daughter. So, any advice for me on how to find a lawyer? Any idea how much $$ I should set aside for that? Thanks so much! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 No clue how to find a decent one. Prices will vary widely... Good luck and best wishes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greta Posted March 10, 2015 Author Share Posted March 10, 2015 Be very specific when writing them down. When my mom died my uncle, executor of her estate, bullied me out of her desk (a cherished memento to me, a trophy of family power for him). He got away with it with the support of their siblings (my aunts and uncle) because he claimed a verbal promise that he could have it. I'm so sorry - that's awful. Since my daughter is an only child, I wasn't thinking that anything like this could really happen - she gets everything and there's no one to argue that, right? I can't imagine either my brothers or my husband's acting that way, but I have heard stories of people doing shocking things after the death of a family member. My grandmother has started giving away her stuff to the people she wants to have it. It makes me sad that she's doing it, but maybe she just wants to avoid any arguments later on. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greta Posted March 10, 2015 Author Share Posted March 10, 2015 I have no experience with online services so have no comments about those you asked about. However, I would *strongly* suggest that your new Will(s) include information about backups and "what if" situations. What if the person you want to leave $ to passed away before you did? What if the person you want to be the Guardian is unable or unwilling to do that or has passed away? What if the Executor you designate cannot do the job? So could an attorney help us set up "second choice" options in the event of scenarios like those? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anne Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Ask around to your local friends regarding lawyer possibilities. Maybe your priest has a recommendation? Anne 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Yes, an attorney could help with second choices. And definitely have back up plans for who gets guardianship. Include those other options in the Will. Don't leave anything to the good graces of others. Also, make sure the person you have selected KNOWS they have been selected. Ask. They may have reasons not to that you are not aware of. And determine at what age your child will receive their inheritance (whatever is left over after the estate is settled). Whoever has Guardianship should probably NOT have control over the money, if any, that is left for her care. Again, neutral 3rd party that can make calls dispassionately. Just because she is an only child, it doesn't mean that there might not be disputes, especially since you would be choosing a non-family member as guardian. I have seen a lot of bizarre scenarios occur after someone passed away. Get it in writing, as clearly as you can, if at all possible. FWIW, this is to protect your child but also whoever gets Guardianship and who takes care of the Estate and who takes care of any inheritance long term. Just to share a quick story, my dad had a friend who was given Guardianship of his childhood best friend's 3 sons. In the will, he was also given control over their estate and the responsibility of managing their money until each turned 25. Prior to that the money was to be used for daily care, educational needs (including college), and medical issues. The boys starting pressuring him about that money as soon as the oldest turned 18. They kept pressuring him to give them the money early. They wanted to invest it on their own. He finally gave them the money but none was 25 yet. Then they blew everything on a get rich scheme. Then they sued him because he gave them the money before the Will stated he should. He was forced through legal means to give them the money again when they each turned 25. It bankrupted him and left him destitute in his retirement years. Were the kids bad kids? No. But they were immature and made a bad call. So did he. My point is that you have no idea how people will handle things. It is better to have checks and balances in place, just in case. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pehp Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 As an attorney, I would just say that you should have an attorney draft your documents, instead of relying on a web-based service. There is no substitute for the expertise of someone who can examine your situation and set up the documents appropriately, ask questions that you may not have considered previously, and so on. It does cost more money (well, I assume!) but I think it is worth the extra expense to have things done properly. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greta Posted March 10, 2015 Author Share Posted March 10, 2015 Ask around to your local friends regarding lawyer possibilities. Maybe your priest has a recommendation? Anne Good idea. Yes, an attorney could help with second choices. And definitely have back up plans for who gets guardianship. Include those other options in the Will. Don't leave anything to the good graces of others. Also, make sure the person you have selected KNOWS they have been selected. Ask. They may have reasons not to that you are not aware of. And determine at what age your child will receive their inheritance (whatever is left over after the estate is settled). Whoever has Guardianship should probably NOT have control over the money, if any, that is left for her care. Again, neutral 3rd party that can make calls dispassionately. Just because she is an only child, it doesn't mean that there might not be disputes, especially since you would be choosing a non-family member as guardian. I have seen a lot of bizarre scenarios occur after someone passed away. Get it in writing, as clearly as you can, if at all possible. FWIW, this is to protect your child but also whoever gets Guardianship and who takes care of the Estate and who takes care of any inheritance long term. Just to share a quick story, my dad had a friend who was given Guardianship of his childhood best friend's 3 sons. In the will, he was also given control over their estate and the responsibility of managing their money until each turned 25. Prior to that the money was to be used for daily care, educational needs (including college), and medical issues. The boys starting pressuring him about that money as soon as the oldest turned 18. They kept pressuring him to give them the money early. They wanted to invest it on their own. He finally gave them the money but none was 25 yet. Then they blew everything on a get rich scheme. Then they sued him because he gave them the money before the Will stated he should. He was forced through legal means to give them the money again when they each turned 25. It bankrupted him and left him destitute in his retirement years. Were the kids bad kids? No. But they were immature and made a bad call. So did he. My point is that you have no idea how people will handle things. It is better to have checks and balances in place, just in case. We have talked to the person we have selected as guardian, and she is quite willing. That is a really strange and sad story. What a mess. I feel really sorry for that guy. I mean, he made a mistake, but so did they, and yet he was the one who ended up paying the price. Poor guy! I do appreciate you sharing that story, though, because it shows that we need to do as much intelligent planning as we can. Though it also seems to say that even the best made plans may not work out the way you picture! As an attorney, I would just say that you should have an attorney draft your documents, instead of relying on a web-based service. There is no substitute for the expertise of someone who can examine your situation and set up the documents appropriately, ask questions that you may not have considered previously, and so on. It does cost more money (well, I assume!) but I think it is worth the extra expense to have things done properly. Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Um_2_4 Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 I had a situation where we were leaving out some blood relatives (from inheritance and guardianship) and we were advised to state explicitly in both our Power of Attorneys and Wills that they were being excluded. I would check with a lawyer in your state to make sure that part is worded correctly. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsheresomewhere Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Just my PSA- Please let someone know where the will is located or the attorney who has the will. No one appreciates going on a hunt after the death of a loved one. Also, include your places where you have accounts so that they don't have to play do they have an account here game. Just my PSA to save anyone else the "fun" of this. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 I had a situation where we were leaving out some blood relatives (from inheritance and guardianship) and we were advised to state explicitly in both our Power of Attorneys and Wills that they were being excluded. I would check with a lawyer in your state to make sure that part is worded correctly. This is what I heard as well, as we are in the same situation - blood relatives are being excluded from guardianship for serious, specific reasons, and I was told (here, actually) that we needed to explicitly state that they were being excluded, since the guardian and back-up guardian aren't blood related. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greta Posted March 11, 2015 Author Share Posted March 11, 2015 Thank you all so much for the further information and suggestions! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halftime Hope Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 One further note: you probably need several documents, at least in our state you do. You will need a will and a trust document (both legally binding), and perhaps a letter of intent (not legally binding, but helpful). The letter of intent is to document anything you want your daughter's guardian and the trustee (the third-party executor of the trust) to do regarding her care and raising, anything that would not be appropriate to put in the will and trust documents. In our letter we included things such as having the trustee and the guardian sit down on a yearly basis and create a budget for the year. We listed our values and priorities for how the estate money was to be spent after meeting the basic daily needs of our children. Some examples: budgeting for the children to take trips to see the grandparents on both sides, providing for the guardian to have retirement funds given to invest since homeschooling our children and hers would keep her from working until they were all out of the home. We specified that we wanted the children to go to college or to trade school (get an education for goodness sake!) and that, to the best of our ability, we wanted that funded so the children would not incur heavy debt--that was a priority in planning the spending over the years. We created lists of the keepsake items and who they should go to, first choice and second choice. Our letter to the family was about two and a half pages long, and from it, the trustee would have a very good idea how to help the guardian accomplish what we envisioned for our children. hth ETA: I don't know if anyone has mentioned a trust upthread, but all the estate's assets go into a trust for the benefit of your minor heir(s). Some assets, like cars, might be liquidated for cash which would roll into the estate, if the parents die when the child is many years from driving. The whole point of the trust is so that someone other than the guardian has control/oversight of the funds, and works with the guardian to ensure that the parent's wishes for the child are carried out and that the funds are properly distributed to accomplish care of the child. (The child is named as the beneficiary of the trust, and the trust document specifies at what point the trust will be dissolved and how its assets are to be distributed, if there is anything, at the point of its dissolution.) A proper lawyer will help you create a good trust document and can explain how you set everything up so that ownership of the assets goes to the trust in the event of your deaths. (In general, that is a unique, one page beneficiary designation form that needs to be filled out for each asset, so it's not hard.) Edited for clarity this morning. :-) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umsami Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 OK, IMHO...LegalZoom and others are better than nothing. If you cannot afford an attorney right now, or you're not going to seek one out anytime soon, then yes, something through LegalZoom is better than dying intestate. But, if/when you can, please see a lawyer so that everything can be drafted regarding your specific situation. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halftime Hope Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Similar to Umsami's post, Nolo Press has Willmaker/Trustmaker software that is quite good (and also includes all kind of other legal documents, such as POAs and medical legal documents), but in the case of your needing to specify non-family guardians, if you can get a good lawyer, I'd do that in a heartbeat. And I'd make sure the lawyer was young-ish and had staff to witness your signing the documents, people who can testify to your intent in court if needed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamakelly Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Our trust, will, and all other documents cost about 1,200 to have done properly. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephanieZ Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Personally, I'd use a real live attorney. You could save your attorney some time and yourself possibly some money if you write up exactly what you want, what you have, etc, and bring it in writing to the first meeting. Time is money, so be clear, have it in writing, and make it easy. There are a lot of nuances to address with estate planning. Details like how to name beneficiaries on insurance policies, etc, would never have occurred to me if our attorney didn't think to instruct us. (I.e., at least in our case, we were instructed NOT to name children beneficiaries of insurance policies, but rather to name the spouse, and then, as the second beneficiary "Estate of My Name". Of course, if you have a non-obvious immediate family member named as guardian and/or executor and/or trustee, you'll want to be certain all your ducks are in a row. If there is any relative who might be upset that they weren't named one or more of those things, they could surely cause trouble. So, yes, IMHO, you should have an actual lawyer write up your documents. That said, it reminds me that I should contact our attorney about updating our documents . .. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greta Posted March 11, 2015 Author Share Posted March 11, 2015 One further note: you probably need several documents, at least in our state you do. You will need a will and a trust document (both legally binding), and perhaps a letter of intent (not legally binding, but helpful). The letter of intent is to document anything you want your daughter's guardian and the trustee (the third-party executor of the trust) to do regarding her care and raising, anything that would not be appropriate to put in the will and trust documents. In our letter we included things such as having the trustee and the guardian sit down on a yearly basis and create a budget for the year. We listed our values and priorities for how the estate money was to be spent after meeting the basic daily needs of our children. Some examples: budgeting for the children to take trips to see the grandparents on both sides, providing for the guardian to have retirement funds given to invest since homeschooling our children and hers would keep her from working until they were all out of the home. We specified that we wanted the children to go to college or to trade school (get an education for goodness sake!) and that, to the best of our ability, we wanted that funded so the children would not incur heavy debt--that was a priority in planning the spending over the years. We created lists of the keepsake items and who they should go to, first choice and second choice. Our letter to the family was about two and a half pages long, and from it, the trustee would have a very good idea how to help the guardian accomplish what we envisioned for our children. hth ETA: I don't know if anyone has mentioned a trust upthread, but all the estate's assets go into a trust for the benefit of your minor heir(s). Some assets, like cars, might be liquidated for cash which would roll into the estate, if the parents die when the child is many years from driving. The whole point of the trust is so that someone other than the guardian has control/oversight of the funds, and works with the guardian to ensure that the parent's wishes for the child are carried out and that the funds are properly distributed to accomplish care of the child. (The child is named as the beneficiary of the trust, and the trust document specifies at what point the trust will be dissolved and how its assets are to be distributed, if there is anything, at the point of its dissolution.) A proper lawyer will help you create a good trust document and can explain how you set everything up so that ownership of the assets goes to the trust in the event of your deaths. (In general, that is a unique, one page beneficiary designation form that needs to be filled out for each asset, so it's not hard.) Edited for clarity this morning. :-) Thank you - this is very helpful! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greta Posted March 11, 2015 Author Share Posted March 11, 2015 OK, IMHO...LegalZoom and others are better than nothing. If you cannot afford an attorney right now, or you're not going to seek one out anytime soon, then yes, something through LegalZoom is better than dying intestate. But, if/when you can, please see a lawyer so that everything can be drafted regarding your specific situation. Yeah, this makes a lot of sense to me. My husband is uber responsible and careful, but for some reason when it comes to this particular issue, he just doesn't feel it's necessary. I don't think that it's prepareing for his own death that bothers him, but preparing for my death. Seems to be some denial going on there. Anyway, I think I am going to have a hard time convincing him to spend the money and take the time to see a lawyer. So we may have to resort to a LegalZoom type document, because I agree with you that it sounds better than nothing. Still, I will keep working on him! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greta Posted March 11, 2015 Author Share Posted March 11, 2015 Similar to Umsami's post, Nolo Press has Willmaker/Trustmaker software that is quite good (and also includes all kind of other legal documents, such as POAs and medical legal documents), but in the case of your needing to specify non-family guardians, if you can get a good lawyer, I'd do that in a heartbeat. And I'd make sure the lawyer was young-ish and had staff to witness your signing the documents, people who can testify to your intent in court if needed. Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greta Posted March 11, 2015 Author Share Posted March 11, 2015 Our trust, will, and all other documents cost about 1,200 to have done properly. That's good to know. Thank you. It is a lot of money (to me!) but it's worth it to make sure that our daughter is provided for in the way that we want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greta Posted March 11, 2015 Author Share Posted March 11, 2015 Personally, I'd use a real live attorney. You could save your attorney some time and yourself possibly some money if you write up exactly what you want, what you have, etc, and bring it in writing to the first meeting. Time is money, so be clear, have it in writing, and make it easy. That's a good tip. Thanks! If there is any relative who might be upset that they weren't named one or more of those things, they could surely cause trouble. I know my parents would be deeply hurt at not being chosen to be my daughter's guardians. But given their personalities I certainly don't think that they would make trouble, especially since my daughter is old enough to express her own wishes. Of course, I don't want to have to put her in the awkward position of defending our choice. (I say our choice because we made the decision together, and this is her wish as well.) This is the only "messy" part of the will. Everything else is pretty straight-forward. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greta Posted March 11, 2015 Author Share Posted March 11, 2015 My mother recently had an extensive will/ trust written by lawyers in Texas, and it cost $1300. Good to know. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greta Posted March 11, 2015 Author Share Posted March 11, 2015 Here's another complicating factor: my husband is eligible to retire in a year, and though we haven't decided anything for sure yet, there's a chance we might move to another state at that time. So, do you think maybe a LegalZoom type will for now, and then a lawyer once we know for sure where we're going to be living and are completely settled? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanny Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Important FOLLOW ON to my first reply. I forgot this... Take the draft of the papers home from your Attorney's office and read every word and every letter, several times, when you can concentrate. Do NOT do that in their office. I did that, several times, with my Will in Texas before it was ready to go 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greta Posted March 11, 2015 Author Share Posted March 11, 2015 Important FOLLOW ON to my first reply. I forgot this... Take the draft of the papers home from your Attorney's office and read every word and every letter, several times, when you can concentrate. Do NOT do that in their office. I did that, several times, with my Will in Texas before it was ready to go Sounds like a wise choice! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Um_2_4 Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Check with your workplaces HR, you may have some sort of benefit that will make it less $$ if you usea certain group of lawyers. This is how we got ours done as well as our living trust. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greta Posted March 11, 2015 Author Share Posted March 11, 2015 Check with your workplaces HR, you may have some sort of benefit that will make it less $$ if you usea certain group of lawyers. This is how we got ours down as well as our living trust. I never would have thought of that. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halftime Hope Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Greta, should all else fail and you need to use a software package to do your paperwork, the package I mentioned up above has state-specific capabilities. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greta Posted March 13, 2015 Author Share Posted March 13, 2015 Greta, should all else fail and you need to use a software package to do your paperwork, the package I mentioned up above has state-specific capabilities.. I like that idea, but it's Windows only, and we have Macs. :-( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halftime Hope Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Yeah, we ran into that problem as well. The family member who is caring for my parents only has Macs, so we bought the regular software download for my parents wills and did it on my laptop (not a mac), when I was visiting them for Christmas. (Where there's a will there's a way...no pun intended.) Can you borrow a friend's laptop for a few hours, print and revise, then borrow again to make the final edits? Failing that, they do have a Will only online version for Mac users: http://www.nolo.com/products/online-will-nnwill.html#topic9 On the other hand, maybe Legal Zoom is a better option, since you really need a living trust in setting up care and provision for your daughter. (BTW, you will also need to name alternates for both your trustee and your guardian.) Finally--more of the lessons learned from having done this twice--we made copies of all our paperwork and gave them to a trusted person for safekeeping, in addition to our own personal originals. (You should NOT make two signed originals.) We did the trust and his/hers documents for both of us: wills, health care directives, medical and financial POAs for each other. We had a stack of paper about an inch and a half thick, and it took us about 45 minutes to have them all witnessed (two signatures) and notarized, and we asked a *young* friends, a couple who also knew our notary personally, on the theory that if anyone ever contested anything, there would be three easy-to-find witnesses who could testify that we really did mean what the papers say. hth 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greta Posted March 13, 2015 Author Share Posted March 13, 2015 Yeah, we ran into that problem as well. The family member who is caring for my parents only has Macs, so we bought the regular software download for my parents wills and did it on my laptop (not a mac), when I was visiting them for Christmas. (Where there's a will there's a way...no pun intended.) Can you borrow a friend's laptop for a few hours, print and revise, then borrow again to make the final edits? That's a good idea. I'll have to think who I might be able to impose upon for that. :) Failing that, they do have a Will only online version for Mac users: http://www.nolo.com/products/online-will-nnwill.html#topic9 On the other hand, maybe Legal Zoom is a better option, since you really need a living trust in setting up care and provision for your daughter. (BTW, you will also need to name alternates for both your trustee and your guardian.) Finally--more of the lessons learned from having done this twice--we made copies of all our paperwork and gave them to a trusted person for safekeeping, in addition to our own personal originals. (You should NOT make two signed originals.) We did the trust and his/hers documents for both of us: wills, health care directives, medical and financial POAs for each other. We had a stack of paper about an inch and a half thick, and it took us about 45 minutes to have them all witnessed (two signatures) and notarized, and we asked a *young* friends, a couple who also knew our notary personally, on the theory that if anyone ever contested anything, there would be three easy-to-find witnesses who could testify that we really did mean what the papers say. hth Good advice. Thanks so much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Dear GretaLynne, I haven't read all the responses, but I have some things to contribute, and if you want you can PM me because I'm not monitoring the general discussion except for a few days of Lent. 1. There are a few things you might want to separate, but no one who is doing a boatload of work should be excluded from remuneration. Executor probably should not be Guardian or Trustee, but it is a bunch of work to be an executor, and that should be recognized. 2. Be sure to get your request in for the end of life for yourself. Burial, priest, funeral, and so on. Give a copy to your priest, and keep a copy in your freezer. Have a health care directive and a copy of your will IN THE FREEZER. This makes it accessible; if it is in a safe, you have to get legal permission to get at the will and it makes things a mess. 3. Make a list of who gets what stuff. It does not need to be in your will, and frankly, if it is, it is likely to delay things. It can be a codicil and kept in your freezer. 4. We changed guardians four times. It made complete sense to do so each time because my son was at a different stage of his life four times. Ironically, the last guardians were also the first. But my point is to stay current. :::heart and hug::: PM me if I can be of further help. 4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greta Posted March 15, 2015 Author Share Posted March 15, 2015 and keep a copy in your freezer. I never would have thought of that! Thank you for your post. Lots of good advice. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMJ Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 I'm so sorry - that's awful. Since my daughter is an only child, I wasn't thinking that anything like this could really happen - she gets everything and there's no one to argue that, right? I can't imagine either my brothers or my husband's acting that way, but I have heard stories of people doing shocking things after the death of a family member. My grandmother has started giving away her stuff to the people she wants to have it. It makes me sad that she's doing it, but maybe she just wants to avoid any arguments later on. It had started even before my Mom died. My sister and I both lived out of state, and Mom was in a nursing home for a few months before she passed. Our relatives who lived nearby wouldn't find the time to take her to her house, not even for a visit of an hour, though they were all for arguing with the doctors as to the medical need for her to not live at home. (These same nitwits had taken her car shopping and allowed her to buy another car after she totaled hers in a single-car accident because she was unfit to drive, despite my pleas that they not do that. Luckily, she was hospitalized and then in a nursing home before she ever got the chance to drive it anywhere.) However, when they heard DH and I were coming up for a visit they changed their tune, took Mom to her house, talked her out of many things and took those things away right then. Then after she passed, my uncle did his bullying at her internment, in front of people. When my Dad's parents were elderly and starting to consider their own passings they started labeling furniture with the names of the persons they wanted to have each. For smaller things they insisted on discussing who was to get what, but not everything had been made clear. One of my cousins lived with them for a short while, until Grandpa discovered Cousin had changed the names attached to several pieces of furniture to his own. I found this out when I came for a visit and Grandpa asked me to shift furniture to verify. There was one decrepit old oak table in Grandpa's cellar he had been working on -- when he found out I liked it he made me take it with me when I left. I still have it. I was supposed to get a portion of my Grandma's bell collection, a specific set of bells that my Dad had given her. Instead, the whole collection came to me, and I know some of those bells are special to other family members. I need to get pictures taken and sent out to my aunts and uncles and cousins (this bunch is all on my Dad's side, not the same bunch mentioned above) so they can tell me which ones they want. When Grandma and Grandpa died within a month of each other there was a lot of hurried packing and distributing of their things so the house could be sold. We all hated the who-gets-what conversations at the time, but once they were gone we realized it would have been helpful to have had detailed lists for the disbursement of the possessions. Grandma and Grandpa tried, but we all were just too freaked out to talk about it. I see the need to do that now, however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greta Posted March 15, 2015 Author Share Posted March 15, 2015 Then after she passed, my uncle did his bullying at her internment, in front of people. AMJ, I am so very sorry that you had to go through that, and all the other problems that they caused. :grouphug: It's pretty unbelievable. Family members are supposed to support one another in those dark, rough times of life, not use them as an opportunity to exploit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halftime Hope Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 nm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halftime Hope Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 AMJ mentioned having lists. When dh's dad passed, dh went through the house, taking photos of everything my FIL had built or made throughout the years--he was quite a craftsman and woodworker. We also photographed a bunch of my MIL's keepsake items. Dh pasted the photos into a document, and emailed it to his siblings. That way they were able to sign up for and divvy up the items amongst themselves peaceably. Thank God! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greta Posted March 15, 2015 Author Share Posted March 15, 2015 AMJ mentioned having lists. When dh's dad passed, dh went through the house, taking photos of everything my FIL had built or made throughout the years--he was quite a craftsman and woodworker. We also photographed a bunch of my MIL's keepsake items. Dh pasted the photos into a document, and emailed it to his siblings. That way they were able to sign up for and divvy up the items amongst themselves peaceably. Thank God! Clever way to handle it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brehon Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 When doing the will with your attorney, also set up a revokable living trust so your estate won't have to go through probate and do a health care proxy. We did it when our kids were younger, and we were able to designate guardians, back up guardians (if the first ones can't...we of course asked all of them first), the trustee of the estate (in our case, someone other than the guardians to be in charge of the money), and a relative to make health care decisions if both dh and I are incapable of doing so. I think we spent $800 or $900 to have it all set up, but it was worth it for peace of mind. :iagree: This is exactly what we did only it only cost us $400. I would tell my dh to man up and think of his kids were he to resist using an estate attorney. Some of the best money we've spent, truly. If you do end up choosing an online version, make sure it has the particulars for your state. Good luck. I hope your dh comes around 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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