Algebra Questions

[tmstranger]

kind of a spin off from other threads, but I need your expert opinions (without high jacking another thread!).

 

My 5th grader is currently working through Saxon 1/2.  This is our first year homeschooling, largely because the public school system didn't have a plan for his math curriculum for this year. (but that's a long story!)

 

I had wanted him to do AoPS pre-algebra this year because I think he could handle the challenge as he's always been a numbers kid.  He was drawn to Saxon and since this was our first year and I wanted him to learn math in a way that he felt comfortable with, we went with it.  He's done fine with it, but I sometimes find myself reading the lesson to him since I don't think he really reads it carefully...then he comes to me with questions, and I basically read him the lesson and he's fine.  I think he *thinks* he knows what to do, so he skims the lesson initially. 

 

Next year, I'm debating switching from the Saxon program.  I am torn, though, because I don't think I know enough about what is out there to make a judgment about what is good or bad in a math program.  Regarding Saxon, I've noticed that my son saves his math work for the very end of the day.  I asked him if was because he didn't like it, but he said he likes it, but it just takes too long.

 

I still like the look of AoPS and the videos they have online is another bonus! I've heard good things about Jacob's and Foerster's also.  (mostly from recommendations on this board, but no one ever really says WHY they chose one over the other)

 

If you use any of these, what do you like about them?  Are they written in a way that a 6th grader can understand?  I don't want a "high school" textbook that will be boring and expect more maturity than he will have.  What do you then use for Geometry?  If you tried these and you didn't like them, what was it that you didn't care for? One consideration for me is that I'm not confident in my ability to "teach" him math beyond pre-algebra.  My hubby and my dad were math majors in college, but neither is really here to teach him if I need help. Therefore, dvds or online videos are a plus!

 

Thanks!

[Momling]

How about Jousting armadillos or AOPS pre-algebra? They should be different enough from Saxon and offer a good challenge for a bright 6th grader.

[tmstranger]

Would you do AOPS pre-algebra after Saxon pre-algebra?  Why not AOPS algebra? 

 

I'll have to look into Jousting Armadillos...I don't really know anything about that one either. 

 

The reason I have so many questions is that it's so hard to judge a program by the few sample pages I find. 

 

Thanks for your suggestion.

[Luckymama]

We started homeschooling when did was in fifth grade, primarily for math reasons :)

 

That year we used a variety of resources (not Saxon---we vetoed that with one look). I knew I wanted dd to use AoPS for algebra and beyond based on her learning style (no repetition, please). Well, that summer AoPS PreAlgebra was released, so she began sixth with it, finished it in February, and began the algebra book.

 

I'm glad she started with prealgebra. She became accustomed to the AoPS style before being faced with absolutely new topics. Prealgebra contained some new math (like the chapters on number theory and counting) and went way deeper, conceptually, into the math she had covered before.

[JoJosMom]

We started homeschooling when did was in fifth grade, primarily for math reasons :)

 

That year we used a variety of resources (not Saxon---we vetoed that with one look). I knew I wanted dd to use AoPS for algebra and beyond based on her learning style (no repetition, please). Well, that summer AoPS PreAlgebra was released, so she began sixth with it, finished it in February, and began the algebra book.

 

I'm glad she started with prealgebra. She became accustomed to the AoPS style before being faced with absolutely new topics. Prealgebra contained some new math (like the chapters on number theory and counting) and went way deeper, conceptually, into the math she had covered before.

 

Hijack alert! (Sorry, OP :o )

 

Luckymama, have you had any issues with your daughter's understanding of fundamentals using the AoPS curriculum? A few recent posts have discussed a need for more coverage of the basics, and I'm getting concerned. Specifically, posters have suggested a two curriculum approach to Algebra, i.e., using AoPS after/before Jacobs or Foersters. Any thoughts?

[tmstranger]

Not a hijack!  I totally need this info, too!  I'm trying to encourage my son's love of math and I just don't know enough about what works and what doesn't. 

 

Thanks, Jojosmom!

 

 

[JoJosMom]

Not a hijack!  I totally need this info, too!  I'm trying to encourage my son's love of math and I just don't know enough about what works and what doesn't. 

 

Thanks, Jojosmom!

 

You're welcome!

[Luckymama]

Hijack alert! (Sorry, OP :o )

 

Luckymama, have you had any issues with your daughter's understanding of fundamentals using the AoPS curriculum? A few recent posts have discussed a need for more coverage of the basics, and I'm getting concerned. Specifically, posters have suggested a two curriculum approach to Algebra, i.e., using AoPS after/before Jacobs or Foersters. Any thoughts?

Not at all :) She may be an unusual math student, but she does not need multiple exposures to topics.

 

She has used AoPS from prealgebra through precalc, including Intro to Number Theory and Intro to Counting and Probability. She took two classes through AoPS, geometry because that's my least favorite and I didn't want to grade proofs (she did that March of seventh grade to Sept of eighth) and NT (last summer). We thought all along she'd do the AoPS calculus class and then sit the AP BC exam, but she's switched her school focus from All Math All The Time to more diverse interests and will instead just do AB level :)

[JoJosMom]

Not at all :) She may be an unusual math student, but she does not need multiple exposures to topics.

 

She has used AoPS from prealgebra through precalc, including Intro to Number Theory and Intro to Counting and Probability. She took two classes through AoPS, geometry because that's my least favorite and I didn't want to grade proofs (she did that March of seventh grade to Sept of eighth) and NT (last summer). We thought all along she'd do the AoPS calculus class and then sit the AP BC exam, but she's switched her school focus from All Math All The Time to more diverse interests and will instead just do AB level :)

 

Thank you, Luckymama!

 

May I ask what you used earlier? I ask, because I am curious as to what type of thinker your DD is. We used MM successfully; that is what spoke to my DD. At the extreme failure end of the spectrum was Saxon-totally wrong fit here. I agonize over math curricula with DD, because she and I are total opposites. (Can you tell that I am desperately seeking reassurance here?)

[8filltheheart]

Hijack alert! (Sorry, OP :o )

 

Luckymama, have you had any issues with your daughter's understanding of fundamentals using the AoPS curriculum? A few recent posts have discussed a need for more coverage of the basics, and I'm getting concerned. Specifically, posters have suggested a two curriculum approach to Algebra, i.e., using AoPS after/before Jacobs or Foersters. Any thoughts?

I don't think anyone can really answer this question. My ds didn't need any supplementing and AoPS provided him with the ability to apply concepts to just about anything. But he has always thought mathematically. It worked with how he thinks. For kids that match its teaching methodology, it is a huge blessing.

 

But, for kids that need direct instruction and repeated application type problems, I do think they might need supplementing. AoPS focuses on fewer application type word problems than a program like Foersters. Foersters focuses more on application and less on the theory and proofs than AoPS. It depends on the student whether or not they can make those leaps independent of instruction and practice.

[JoJosMom]

I don't think anyone can really answer this question. My ds didn't need any supplementing and AoPS provided him with the ability to apply concepts to just about anything. But he has always thought mathematically. It worked with how he thinks. For kids that match its teaching methodology, it is a huge blessing.

 

But, for kids that need direct instruction and repeated application type problems, I do think they might need supplementing. AoPS focuses on fewer application type word problems than a program like Foersters. Foersters focuses more on application and less on the theory and proofs than AoPS. It depends on the student whether or not they can make those leaps independent of instruction and practice.

 

Thank you for the input!

 

I have become painfully aware that, with math, what works is highly dependent upon whether the method matches the thinking style of the learner. We are using AoPS Algebra now, and I am just wondering whether I should be using something else to test DD's understanding. FWIW, things have gone pretty well until Chapter 7 (Proportion.)  We had to take a time out during the challenge problems and do a chapter in Zaccaro's Real World Algebra. What I noticed (and in the Ratio and Percents chapter, too) is that DD can do most of the initial problems fairly quickly and mostly in head. Then she gets to the hard challenge problems and she really hasn't practiced the problem solving methods in the chapter, if you know what I mean. And this is just how is seems to me. Honestly, her brain is wired completely differently from mine. We can look at the same word problem and she has an answer before I have even sorted out the question (I am very linear and and a "just let me apply the method" kind of math person.)

 

Ack. Thank you for joining me in my Sunday morning math angst! :001_smile:

 

[regentrude]

Hij

Luckymama, have you had any issues with your daughter's understanding of fundamentals using the AoPS curriculum? A few recent posts have discussed a need for more coverage of the basics, and I'm getting concerned. Specifically, posters have suggested a two curriculum approach to Algebra, i.e., using AoPS after/before Jacobs or Foersters. Any thoughts?

 

I am not Luckymama, but my kids have used AoPS exclusively since 6th grade and have a thorough understanding and mastery of the material. They needed no supplementation, except for a few sheets of extra practice problems in one particular section of AoPS Intro to Algebra.

I see no need to double AoPS with a second curriculum; it is a more than comprehensive stand alone curriculum as it is.

 

We started with Intro to Algebra (prealg did not exist), after an abbreviated run through Saxon 8/7 to get prealg done

[tmstranger]

So, what is the general sequence of books with AoPS?  When are Number Theory and Counting & Probability put into sequence?  Is it one book per school year?

 

I'm looking at the list on their website and it looks like if you do Intro to Alg in Grade 6 and each book listed in each consecutive school year, then you only get to pre-calc in 12th grade?  Am I reading this right?  Or do we double-up somewhere?

[regentrude]

So, what is the general sequence of books with AoPS?  When are Number Theory and Counting & Probability put into sequence?  Is it one book per school year?

 

I'm looking at the list on their website and it looks like if you do Intro to Alg in Grade 6 and each book listed in each consecutive school year, then you only get to pre-calc in 12th grade?  Am I reading this right?  Or do we double-up somewhere?

 

NT and C&P are topics not part of the traditional sequence. They can be fit in if the student is interested, if you want to take a detour, in addition to others if students wants to double up - or omitted. Each would be a semester.

Intro to Algebra is the longest book, and many cover it over the course of two years.

 

DD did: Intro to algebra (entire book in one year) in 7th

Geo in 9th (skipped 8th)

Intermediate Alge + Precalc in 10

Calc in 11.

 

DS did: Intro to Algebra ch 1-13 in 6th

Intro to Algebra ch 14-16 + C&P in 7th

finish Intro to A + start geo in 8th

geo in 9

intermediate alg in 10

will do precalc in 11

[JoJosMom]

Thank you, regentrude, for the information.

 

tmstranger: On another thread, "To continue AoPS or not," a poster linked to an older thread wherein regentrude posted assessments for AoPS algebra.

 

So, again, THANK YOU, regentrude!!! :hurray: :hurray: :hurray:

[tmstranger]

NT and C&P are topics not part of the traditional sequence. They can be fit in if the student is interested, if you want to take a detour, in addition to others if students wants to double up - or omitted. Each would be a semester.

Intro to Algebra is the longest book, and many cover it over the course of two years.

 

DD did: Intro to algebra (entire book in one year) in 7th

Geo in 9th (skipped 8th)

Intermediate Alge + Precalc in 10

Calc in 11.

 

DS did: Intro to Algebra ch 1-13 in 6th

Intro to Algebra ch 14-16 + C&P in 7th

finish Intro to A + start geo in 8th

geo in 9

intermediate alg in 10

will do precalc in 11

 

Thank you...this is very helpful!

[tmstranger]

I have another question...because I still haven't made a decision!! ugh...

 

I had looked at Foerster's because HOD recommends it in their program and I'm likely using that next year.  I was told on the HOD boards that it is an advanced text recommended for high school students.

 

so, my question is (and I asked this there, too, but haven't had any response) why?  is it because middle school kids don't get to algebra before 8/9th grade?  if a child is properly prepared for algebra level courses, should he be able to manage this text? 

 

I also just looked at a sample of Jacob's Algebra online and that looked fun, but seriously, I need to see more than 2 pages!  Any input on that one?

 

sometimes I think it would be easier to stick with saxon since I "know" that program, but I really want to change.  change to what, though? that's the struggle...if they weren't so expensive, maybe I wouldn't mind trying them out!

 

 

[8filltheheart]

I have had 6th and 7th graders complete Foerster's. Some people are convinced that it is impossible for younger kids to handle alg. I am not one of them. ;)

 

Fwiw, you should be able to get a copy of Foerster's cheap. My kids used the 94 or 95 ed.

[tmstranger]

I have had 6th and 7th graders complete Foerster's. Some people are convinced that it is impossible for younger kids to handle alg. I am not one of them. ;)

 

Fwiw, you should be able to get a copy of Foerster's cheap. My kids used the 94 or 95 ed.

Thank you...that makes me feel better!

 

My ds skipped 2nd grade math in public school and then they sped him through 3rd/4th in one school year, so he's been far ahead and has always had A's...usually 98% ish! So, I feel he can handle algebra, but everyone makes it seem like this book is just not for middle schoolers. 

 

I have a hard time making decisions...my hubby hates that! :)

[MEmama]

DS is using Jacobs after finishing MM in 5th. He loves loves loves finally feeling challenged in math. :)

 

I agree that's it's really hard to find the right fit without being able to hold the texts; a couple sample pages online just isn't enough. At some point we just made a decision to try one (the other contender for us was Foeresters) with the expectation that it might not be right. We got lucky; it absolutely is for him.

 

Jacobs is written to the student and it's very gentle for younger students. In no way does that mean its simplified algebra, in fact DH and I often comment on how much *more* it is than what we had available to us in high school.

 

The reason you are finding algebra books labelled as appropriate for high school is because...they are high school texts. That doesn't mean plenty of younger kids still use them, but for sure it's advanced to do so. They all expect a certain maturity and move at a certain pace that would be in line for a high school age kid.

[tmstranger]

Jacobs is written to the student and it's very gentle for younger students. In no way does that mean its simplified algebra, in fact DH and I often comment on how much *more* it is than what we had available to us in high school.

 

 

 

Good to know!  This is one of my concerns in not being able to see them...and both my son and I don't want to do Algebra more than once if we don't have to!

[MEmama]

Good to know! This is one of my concerns in not being able to see them...and both my son and I don't want to do Algebra more than once if we don't have to!

I know a lot of homeschoolers use multiple resources for subjects, but we've never found that beneficial. So far we haven't had to supplement Jacobs with anything else, but I think someone (Callahan?) put out a DVD series to accompany the book. I haven't looked into it, though. And some people really like Khan for help.

 

If you do go with Jacobs, you'll need a teachers manual as well, if just for the answers. :)

[Reefgazer]

I think this is a 5th grade boy thing.  I sit with DS and review the lesson before I send him into the wild blue yonder of his room to do the mixed practice.

 

DD is a Saxon lover - thrives on it, actually.  We tried AoPS and it really didn't speak to her.  She could definitely understand it, but I don't think that discovery approach works for her.  We've shelved it for now.  I won't get rid of it, though, because I think it is DS's style and I'll try it with him when he finishes the Beast Academy series.

kind of a spin off from other threads, but I need your expert opinions (without high jacking another thread!).

 

My 5th grader is currently working through Saxon 1/2.  This is our first year homeschooling, largely because the public school system didn't have a plan for his math curriculum for this year. (but that's a long story!)

 

I had wanted him to do AoPS pre-algebra this year because I think he could handle the challenge as he's always been a numbers kid.  He was drawn to Saxon and since this was our first year and I wanted him to learn math in a way that he felt comfortable with, we went with it.  He's done fine with it, but I sometimes find myself reading the lesson to him since I don't think he really reads it carefully...then he comes to me with questions, and I basically read him the lesson and he's fine.  I think he *thinks* he knows what to do, so he skims the lesson initially.

 

Next year, I'm debating switching from the Saxon program.  I am torn, though, because I don't think I know enough about what is out there to make a judgment about what is good or bad in a math program.  Regarding Saxon, I've noticed that my son saves his math work for the very end of the day.  I asked him if was because he didn't like it, but he said he likes it, but it just takes too long.

 

I still like the look of AoPS and the videos they have online is another bonus! I've heard good things about Jacob's and Foerster's also.  (mostly from recommendations on this board, but no one ever really says WHY they chose one over the other)

 

If you use any of these, what do you like about them?  Are they written in a way that a 6th grader can understand?  I don't want a "high school" textbook that will be boring and expect more maturity than he will have.  What do you then use for Geometry?  If you tried these and you didn't like them, what was it that you didn't care for? One consideration for me is that I'm not confident in my ability to "teach" him math beyond pre-algebra.  My hubby and my dad were math majors in college, but neither is really here to teach him if I need help. Therefore, dvds or online videos are a plus!

 

Thanks!

 

[tmstranger]

I think this is a 5th grade boy thing.  I sit with DS and review the lesson before I send him into the wild blue yonder of his room to do the mixed practice.

 

 

 

Yes, I agree! I also think he's learning to read the lesson himself instead of having a teacher teaching a class of students.  It's an adjustment!  I've been letting him do the lesson on his own and they we sit and review the answers together, so he can fix any mistakes he made. 

[dereksurfs]

I don't think anyone can really answer this question. My ds didn't need any supplementing and AoPS provided him with the ability to apply concepts to just about anything. But he has always thought mathematically. It worked with how he thinks. For kids that match its teaching methodology, it is a huge blessing.

 

But, for kids that need direct instruction and repeated application type problems, I do think they might need supplementing. AoPS focuses on fewer application type word problems than a program like Foersters. Foersters focuses more on application and less on the theory and proofs than AoPS. It depends on the student whether or not they can make those leaps independent of instruction and practice.

 

Yes, I would caution you with this.  What is most important is to be in tune with what works for 'your' ds vs. what other have done.  Not only does every child learn differently, but their ability to process certain types of math instruction varies greatly. This cognitive developmental stage from concrete operations to abstract reasoning sometimes occurs in spurts.  

 

In our case, we sampled AoPS Pre-A along with Alcumus in 6th grade and it just wasn't connecting with ds13.  That's when we discovered TabletClass Pre-A which was a great fit.  While working through TC we supplemented with AoPS.  By 7th grade we tried AoPS Intro to Algebra and ds13 found it be much better.  It made more sense a year later 'after' using something else first which introduced Algebraic reasoning.  That being said, after completion of AoPS Intro to Algebra (1-13) ds felt he needed review of Algebraic principles before starting Geometry.  So we went through TC Algebra which worked out well.  The main reason I share this is to demonstrate to you that no program, including AoPS, works the same way for every child.  

 

Don't be afraid to try whatever path works best for your ds whether it be Foerster, AoPS, Jacobs, Dolciani, TabletClass, et al including any combination of them.  There is no one right way to move through this developmental stage.  For some its a simple, straight path while for others it takes curves.  In addition, quite a number do like to take more than 'one pass' through Algebra 1 to solidify Algebraic skills.  There is nothing wrong with that, especially for a young student.

 

I recommend sampling a few things first to receive valuable feedback from your ds before making any final decisions.  That is a part of due diligence and the tailoring process in helping to find the best solution for a child.  Of course there are other ways to discover whether something is a good fit or not.  But it helps to do as much as possible up front which can save both time and frustration in the long run.  Most programs do offer samples, including AoPS.  For things like Foerster, the older used texts can be found for pennies on the dollar.  

[tmstranger]

Yes, I would caution you with this.  What is most important is to be in tune with what works for 'your' ds vs. what other have done.  Not only does every child learn differently, but their ability to process certain types of math instruction varies greatly. This cognitive developmental stage from concrete operations to abstract reasoning sometimes occurs in spurts.  

 

In our case, we sampled AoPS Pre-A along with Alcumus in 6th grade and it just wasn't connecting with ds13.  That's when we discovered TabletClass Pre-A which was a great fit.  While working through TC we supplemented with AoPS.  By 7th grade we tried AoPS Intro to Algebra and ds13 found it be much better.  It made more sense a year later 'after' using something else first which introduced Algebraic reasoning.  That being said, after completion of AoPS Intro to Algebra (1-13) ds felt he needed review of Algebraic principles before starting Geometry.  So we went through TC Algebra which worked out well.  The main reason I share this is to demonstrate to you that no program, including AoPS, works the same way for every child.  

 

Don't be afraid to try whatever path works best for your ds whether it be Foerster, AoPS, Jacobs, Dolciani, TabletClass, et al including any combination of them.  There is no one right way to move through this developmental stage.  For some its a simple, straight path while for other it takes curves.  In addition, quite a number do like to take more than 'one pass' going though Algebra 1 to solidify Algebraic skills.  There is nothing wrong with that, especially for a young student.

 

I recommend sampling a few things first to receive valuable feedback from your ds before making any final decisions.  That is a part of due diligence and the tailoring process in helping to find the best solution for a child.  Of course there are other ways to discover whether something is a good fit or not.  But it helps to do as much as possible up front which can save both time and frustration in the long run.  Most programs do offer samples, including AoPS.  For things like Foerster, the older used text can be found used for pennies on the dollar.  

Thank you. It's funny, even Carrie (HOD author) weighed in on the message board to say she thought Foerster's was high school honors level and not good for a young middle schooler. 

 

My husband and I both took Algebra in 7th grade and then progressed in math through Calculus.  Hubby and my dad were both math majors in school...my son comes by his math ability honestly!  :)  Both of us keep thinking that we don't remember Algebra being especially hard, so all of the stress this is causing me is probably so unnecessary.  He will likely do fine either way we go.  And if we need to stop and switch directions, so be it. 

 

I like the look of Jacobs--at least there are samples online!  AoPS seems cheaper and I like that they have those free videos online, too!  I'll just bite the bullet and buy one at some point. 

 

Thank you all for making me feel less stressed about this decision.  It's math--and can always be adjusted!! 

 

 

[Kareni]

I also just looked at a sample of Jacob's Algebra online and that looked fun, but seriously, I need to see more than 2 pages!  Any input on that one?

 

 

You can probably obtain a copy through inter-library loan.

 

I've no first hand experience with Jacobs' Algebra, but I can recommend Jacobs' Geometry.  We used Lial's for Algebra I and II.

 

Regards,

Kareni

[CaffeineDiary]

 

is it because middle school kids don't get to algebra before 8/9th grade?  if a child is properly prepared for algebra level courses, should he be able to manage this text? 

 

 

It's not quite accurate to describe middle school curriculums this way - various pre algebra-type concepts are woven throughout the Common Core from as early as 2nd grade, just under different names.  Common Core pre-algebra in 5th and 6th grade approaches what I'd think of as basic algebra.  Foerster's algebra does not seem like an especially challenging text to me when compared to other texts used in schools.  It may be challenging when compared to homeschool materials - without naming specific names in this thread, I will say that when I have surveyed "created-for-homeschool" math materials in the past, I have been deeply unimpressed.  Some of them are so lightweight it's barely accurate to call them surveys.

 

So from my perspective "Oh, that book is too hard" may very well approximate "That book is probably about right".  As Plato says, there is no royal road to mathematics.

 

[dereksurfs]

It's not quite accurate to describe middle school curriculums this way - various pre algebra-type concepts are woven throughout the Common Core from as early as 2nd grade, just under different names.  Common Core pre-algebra in 5th and 6th grade approaches what I'd think of as basic algebra.  Foerster's algebra does not seem like an especially challenging text to me when compared to other texts used in schools.  It may be challenging when compared to homeschool materials - without naming specific names in this thread, I will say that when I have surveyed "created-for-homeschool" math materials in the past, I have been deeply unimpressed.  Some of them are so lightweight it's barely accurate to call them surveys.

 

So from my perspective "Oh, that book is too hard" may very well approximate "That book is probably about right".  As Plato says, there is no royal road to mathematics.

 

Very good point.  We've discovered this the hard way starting out with a 'popular' homeschool math program with some of the other families in our area.  If math is too easy, boring or both many times there is something wrong.  It should not be pain free and come without significant wrestling and struggling.  I can't help but wonder if making something easier than intended is a way for some to 'help' their dc along.  If one struggled or had a bad experience with math themselves this might seem like a plausible approach.  Let's not make it too hard on them.  I can see there being a place for some of this with a truly struggling or math challenged student.  But generally speaking, I think those deficiencies can be addressed within the context of solid curriculum.

 

Some may struggle more than others in certain areas.  That's just a fact of life, even in the workplace.  I've seen this with engineers I've worked with. It's not always the brightest ones who end up being the greatest contributors but rather those who sometimes struggle more and don't give up.  Once they get it they are so excited to conquer the next problem and so on.  Learning to struggle with difficult problems and persevere is really key with math.  If that is taken out of a curriculum or greatly diminished I don't see much value added beyond simply getting them through it - basic survival.

[Penelope]

Thank you. It's funny, even Carrie (HOD author) weighed in on the message board to say she thought Foerster's was high school honors level and not good for a young middle schooler.

 

With no disrespect to those who shared this opinion elsewhere, I really don't understand it. It seems to me that a young student who is ready for algebra is exactly the type of student who should not be given the easier math program. After all, many students in public and private schools who are taking algebra 1 at the honors level are completing it before ever entering high school. I say better to provide a little more challenge, even if it takes longer, then make it too easy and rush through.

 

I don't have a plethora of algebra books to compare Foerster's to, but compared to AoPS, it is at least one level of "kinder and gentler." Even without considering that the entire approach is just different, concepts are broken down much further in Foester's and more practice is given.

 

CaffeineDiary and anyone else, if Foester's wouldn't necessarily be considered honors level, even with all the word problems, I would enjoy hearing some other recommendations for ps texts that would be more advanced.

[kiana]

With no disrespect to those who shared this opinion elsewhere, I really don't understand it. It seems to me that a young student who is ready for algebra is exactly the type of student who should not be given the easier math program. After all, many students in public and private schools who are taking algebra 1 at the honors level are completing it before ever entering high school. I say better to provide a little more challenge, even if it takes longer, then make it too easy and rush through.

 

Absolutely.

 

I would also add that if you get Foerster and it is too challenging, it is very easy to put it back on the shelf for a few months and work on building maturity. 

[tmstranger]

With no disrespect to those who shared this opinion elsewhere, I really don't understand it. It seems to me that a young student who is ready for algebra is exactly the type of student who should not be given the easier math program. After all, many students in public and private schools who are taking algebra 1 at the honors level are completing it before ever entering high school. I say better to provide a little more challenge, even if it takes longer, then make it too easy and rush through.

 

 

 

Yes!  A friend of mine at church used to teach math a private school.  She currently tutors, so I asked her opinion on this last Sunday.  She completely agreed that if a child is ready for Algebra, then he's ready for Algebra.  No need to water it down!

 

Also, she was not familiar with AOPS or Foerster's specifically, but she used to use Dolciani and LOVED it. 

 

I still don't know which direction I'm going for the Algebra curriculum, but I've definitely stopped stressing about Foerster's being "too hard."  Both my husband and I are very mathy.  My dad taught college level math and loves helping my son and of course, I have my friend who tutors...DS will be fine!

[dereksurfs]

Yes!  A friend of mine at church used to teach math a private school.  She currently tutors, so I asked her opinion on this last Sunday.  She completely agreed that if a child is ready for Algebra, then he's ready for Algebra.  No need to water it down!

 

Also, she was not familiar with AOPS or Foerster's specifically, but she used to use Dolciani and LOVED it. 

 

I still don't know which direction I'm going for the Algebra curriculum, but I've definitely stopped stressing about Foerster's being "too hard."  Both my husband and I are very mathy.  My dad taught college level math and loves helping my son and of course, I have my friend who tutors...DS will be fine!

 

 

Dolciani is a classic Algebra text, without a doubt.  This was the book many on the forum used way back when, including myself.  The fundamental principles of Algebra haven't changed since.   :p  

[JadeOrchidSong]

I know a lot of homeschoolers use multiple resources for subjects, but we've never found that beneficial. So far we haven't had to supplement Jacobs with anything else, but I think someone (Callahan?) put out a DVD series to accompany the book. I haven't looked into it, though. And some people really like Khan for help.

 

If you do go with Jacobs, you'll need a teachers manual as well, if just for the answers. :)

How far along in Jacobs are you now? Ds is doing Chapter 11 and is really challenged. He does less than a lesson a day. For some harder lessons, he takes two days for one lesson. I plan to have him do Foersters algebra for a few months to deepen his algebra understanding and skills before geometry. Do y know which geometry you are going to use?

[Carol in Cal.]

I don't see any particular reason to change away from Saxon if it is working for him.

It's a solid program.

My impression of Saxon Algebra 1 is that it includes a little more geometry (because of the integrated curriculum) and more emphasis on the areas of algebra that are helpful in chemistry studies than other programs, and less coverage of the quadratic formula.  Also some math programs talk about which quadrant (1, 2, 3, or 4) of an x, y graph is which, and Saxon AFAIK did not cover that at all (something I consider nonessential, but it shows up, for instance, on the Catholic national placement exam.)  

 

I'd say stick with Saxon, and spend some extra time on the quadratic formula.  

 

You might want to use the DIVE CD's to teach the lesson, and then supplement yourself as needed.  Your son is still pretty young to self-teach.  One of the nice things about the DIVE CD's is that they don't use the same examples as the Saxon books do, so the student gets two sets of worked out examples to study from.

[MEmama]

How far along in Jacobs are you now? Ds is doing Chapter 11 and is really challenged. He does less than a lesson a day. For some harder lessons, he takes two days for one lesson. I plan to have him do Foersters algebra for a few months to deepen his algebra understanding and skills before geometry. Do y know which geometry you are going to use?

He's on chapter 8. He hit a bit of a snag with simultaneous equations, but the bigger learning curve for him is that for the first time he's having to learn how to learn. That is, he's accustomed to solving everything in his head and is now finally coming to the conclusion that he can't do that anymore. He's extremely reluctant to write out the steps to his solutions, so that piece alone is throwing a huge wrench into the process for him. We knew it was coming, though, and of course it would be true with any algebra program. I'm thankful that because he got an early start, we don't feel any need to rush through. He'll get over half way through this year, so after he finishes next year I'll probably add in some geometry (is there pre-geometry?). As frustrated as he is at writing out steps, he is thriving with the challenge and really motivated to conquer his personal hang ups. Sorry--that was probably way more than you wanted to know!

 

I haven't looked into Geometry yet. We like Jacobs' style though I can imagine sticking with it. Have you looked at other options?

[SevenDaisies]

CaffeineDiary and anyone else, if Foester's wouldn't necessarily be considered honors level, even with all the word problems, I would enjoy hearing some other recommendations for ps texts that would be more advanced.

I would love to hear this as well.