swimmermom3 Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 isn't accurate? How do you help a student see the error of his ways? :tongue_smilie: Sailor Dude has been recovering from shoulder surgery since mid-December. This is the first time in many years that he has not had a practice of some kind in the afternoon. This is also the heaviest class load he has ever carried. Yesterday he had an outside class at 7:45am. By 7:45pm, he was still struggling to get 6 hours of class in. Now you may be asking if I am micromanaging and yes, for the moment I am. He has four AP classes and when he is managing himself, he is up until 4am. When he is cornered and the cats are locked in the basement, he can get his work done faster, but it is oh, so painful. I am not good with s.l.o.w. and this boy is that. Always has been on his own schedule outside of the pool. My older kids did this to a certain extent. My dd would cry with frustration at the end of a Saturday because she'd been "working all day." Well, she'd been in her room all day and spent 20 minutes looking for her colored pencils, 40 minutes playing with the cat, 15 minutes texting. Of course it seemed like "all day." This kid was so focused growing up, slow, but focused. He had plenty of free time, now he never has free time because a trip to the bathroom takes half an hour. Looking for the calculator eats up another 15 minutes. I can't figure out if I am looking at bad habits or some learning issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin in DFW Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Okay...you've got me worried... Is my son at your house? I have nothing to suggest, but I do relate. It's just who they are. Robin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linders Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Watching with interest. Your swimmer dude sounds so-o-o much like mine. When we homeschooled, I fell into the habit of setting intermediate deadlines during the day to keep things on track. Now he is in B&M school and oh, the agony! For both of us! Daily homework is hard, but projects are the worst. Latest example - his social studies teacher assigned a 4-week project with 9 specific components. For 3 weeks we've tried to (gently, without nagging) encourage 1 component every couple of days. Maybe 2 on the weekend when we had...nothing. No where to be! No swim meets! So now it is 7 days before the due date, he has not one component done, only 2 even started, and we leave for the state meet tomorrow. I am making him take the laptop and some reference books, taking away the phone (a newish and oh-so-awful distraction), and making him work in between sessions. In a very micro-managing way. I thought he was working on it tonight - instead he was emailing the teacher to ask if he really had to document all of what she requested! One hour wasted! I wish I could call a timeout on all school stuff and teach - baby step by baby step - how to organize a task or project. Of course, DH says he watched me try to do it for the past 2 years at home, and DS resisted mightily. DS doing very well at school, but the last-minute anguish (his, and that inflicted on us by living in the same house) is unreal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckymama Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Dd acted like that during the fall. One day I starting timing everything she did---I made notes on my phone when she started and finished an activity or reading or writing or whatever. Everything academic. I did that for an entire week (oh I was pissed at her!) I wrote down all her bathroom trips, her meals and snacks, "making a cup of tea", you name it. Did I mention I was pissed? This worked because I made her do everything at the kitchen table while I was in various rooms, in and out all day, if we weren't working together. I could see her screen if she was supposed to be doing English (she'd either have a Word document up or the class website with distinctive green borders---super obvious). Anyway, I presented the data to her on the Friday. We discussed what a credit actually entails. Yadda yadda yadda. I was so angry at all the time she wasted. I told her it was up to her to control her daily schedule and to limit the wasted time if she wanted any free time on the weekends. Strong language may have left my mouth. She's been much better ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barb_ Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 luckymama, nothing works like data. High five. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swimmermom3 Posted February 12, 2015 Author Share Posted February 12, 2015 Dd acted like that during the fall. One day I starting timing everything she did---I made notes on my phone when she started and finished an activity or reading or writing or whatever. Everything academic. I did that for an entire week (oh I was pissed at her!) I wrote down all her bathroom trips, her meals and snacks, "making a cup of tea", you name it. Did I mention I was pissed? This worked because I made her do everything at the kitchen table while I was in various rooms, in and out all day, if we weren't working together. I could see her screen if she was supposed to be doing English (she'd either have a Word document up or the class website with distinctive green borders---super obvious). Anyway, I presented the data to her on the Friday. We discussed what a credit actually entails. Yadda yadda yadda. I was so angry at all the time she wasted. I told her it was up to her to control her daily schedule and to limit the wasted time if she wanted any free time on the weekends. Strong language may have left my mouth. She's been much better ;) This is our house exactly even down to the strong language possibly leaving my mouth as well. Do you think it's a hormonal thing? Ds doesn't leave too many assignments undone, nor does he often forget to do them, but it is all done at last minute. It's the "I should play first, then work" theory. The whole thing does make a person rather pissy, doesn't it? I have yet to be able to convince him that a couple hours of completely free, unburdened time in the evening would be preferable to snatching 15 minutes here and 15 minutes there all day. In some respects, he is better at managing his work load on his own than he has ever been, but he has the attention span of a gnat. Maybe without the 2:30pm practice deadline, he does feel like he really has all day? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barb_ Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 I ask the offender, "Is this really how you want to spend your free time? Patting the cat who right now wants to scratch your face off? Wouldn't you rather choose how to spend it all at once in the middle of the day?" Sometimes it works. Sometimes not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barb_ Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Also, I've used the timer method. You give them one hour for each subject. At the end of each hour, they get up, stretch, jump on the trampoline, run, grab a snack, pat the cat, whatever, for 10 mins. Once they've devoted that hour (or 45 mins or whatever is reasonable for the particular subject) is "homework" just like at school. Somehow knowing there is an end time for each subject helps my dawdlers to finish in the time allotted. At the very least, everything is attended to at some level and the same things aren't always sliding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justkeepswimming Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 YES!! One of my children is exactly like this. Slow as molasses but doesn't see it that way at all. To make it worse, this child is part of a family who are goal-setters and list-makers and is definitely a square peg. We have tried, honest to goodness, everything. Absolutely everything. The older they get- the worse it seems to become. I've convinced myself that there is a switch that one day, magically, will flip and they will self-correct. I pray this is true. Because I am not sure how this person is going to function in the Real World unless that happens! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eternalsummer Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 I was like this in high school (as much as it was possible to be, with the courseload I carried). It didn't hurt my grades any more than I was willing for it to hurt my grades. I graduated with a 4.3something. I did everything I could at the last minute. I don't see why it impacts the rest of the family, though? I just waited until the last minute and then stayed up all night doing the project the day before it was due and was tired for a day, or turned it in a day late for 10% off or 50% credit or whatever. None of this had anything to do with my family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoot Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 *sigh* Nothing but sympathy here. No advice. My kid is the same way and I've tried everything. It's enough to willingly send a person to the padded room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Running the race Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 We found out that a lot of my son's issues with this are a documented disability, but last year I got so frustrated that I had him start working on a card table in my living room. I could see everything that he was doing. He went from taking all day and all night to finishing by dinner most days. I just wanted to get him graduated. Now he is in college. If he chooses to waste time, at least I'm not the teacher. It's been a rough transition, but he's going to have to figure things out. He doesn't want to hear my advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nan in Mass Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 I've had this problem. I usually say something along the lines of "I think you need to work more efficiently. Unless you work efficiently, you won't be able to fit in all that you will have to do for college. What could you do to make yourself more efficient?" I hasn't seemed to make any noticable difference. Sigh. Nan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swimmermom3 Posted February 13, 2015 Author Share Posted February 13, 2015 I've had this problem. I usually say something along the lines of "I think you need to work more efficiently. Unless you work efficiently, you won't be able to fit in all that you will have to do for college. What could you do to make yourself more efficient?" I hasn't seemed to make any noticable difference. Sigh. Nan Oh Nan. Sigh. I am embarrassed to say that I pulled the college card too, only I said that I could not in good conscience pay good money for school if he could only manage 2-3 classes due to inefficient time management. Nothing has ever been easy with this guy, because I am always a few steps behind and yet, it has been a rewarding, if nerve-racking experience. I could maybe let irritation with some of the slowness go. I could possibly live with him working with the consequences of procrastination for schoolwork, but when we are all on vacation, it's 10am and the rest of us are ready to site-see and he is still sitting there eating breakfast and calmly telling me about what is happening is Syria, it affects all of us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barb_ Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 I was like this in high school (as much as it was possible to be, with the courseload I carried). It didn't hurt my grades any more than I was willing for it to hurt my grades. I graduated with a 4.3something. I did everything I could at the last minute. I don't see why it impacts the rest of the family, though? I just waited until the last minute and then stayed up all night doing the project the day before it was due and was tired for a day, or turned it in a day late for 10% off or 50% credit or whatever. None of this had anything to do with my family. In my house the dawdlers impact the rest of the family because they are a distraction to the rest of the siblings. Furthermore, the older procrastinator set a terrible example for the younger kids. Even the naturally more focussed kids started to blow things off. An older lady I used to work with liked to say, "Shit rolls downhill." I've found that it's true. If the oldest one currently at home is reasonably responsible, gets her desk work and chores done with a minimum of reminding, life is easier for everyone. But when there's a sticky gear at the top, things get ugly quickly. I can see how it would be easier for me to step back and let mine sink or swim if they attended high school, but I'm too wrapped up in their daily outcomes to do that. I have too much invested to allow them to go out into the world with crappy work habits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nan in Mass Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Raising this child made me realize why, when I never, ever did anything wrong on purpose, I spent my childhood scared that people would suddenly, out of the blue, be mad at me. As far as I could see it was entirely random and undeserved. It still happens. I,m still scared. Nan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barb_ Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Raising this child made me realize why, when I never, ever did anything wrong on purpose, I spent my childhood scared that people would suddenly, out of the blue, be mad at me. As far as I could see it was entirely random and undeserved. It still happens. I,m still scared. Nan Hugs, Nan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swimmermom3 Posted February 13, 2015 Author Share Posted February 13, 2015 Raising this child made me realize why, when I never, ever did anything wrong on purpose, I spent my childhood scared that people would suddenly, out of the blue, be mad at me. As far as I could see it was entirely random and undeserved. It still happens. I,m still scared. Nan :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 This is our house exactly even down to the strong language possibly leaving my mouth as well. Do you think it's a hormonal thing? Theirs or yours? I was thinking strong enough language one week to rate dd's work with smilie faces, or frowning faces, or evil frowning eyebrows of doom faces then graph them. She's only 7, so hasn't hormones to blame. She was really interested in the graph. Graphs are cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckymama Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Theirs or yours? I was thinking strong enough language one week to rate dd's work with smilie faces, or frowning faces, or evil frowning eyebrows of doom faces then graph them. She's only 7, so hasn't hormones to blame. She was really interested in the graph. Graphs are cool. Evil frowning eyebrows of doom----must remember this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmyontheFarm Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 YES!! One of my children is exactly like this. Slow as molasses but doesn't see it that way at all. To make it worse, this child is part of a family who are goal-setters and list-makers and is definitely a square peg. We have tried, honest to goodness, everything. Absolutely everything. The older they get- the worse it seems to become. I've convinced myself that there is a switch that one day, magically, will flip and they will self-correct. I pray this is true. Because I am not sure how this person is going to function in the Real World unless that happens! I call my dd19 "My Lassie" which she knows is short for molasses. I only use it as a warning that I am going to blow soon so she better punch it into high gear and fast. The thing is, she is never slow for her Dad or her friends. We finally took away all internet because I'm paying for a StraighterLine course and it's costing me $$ per month. Next time, it goes on her credit card! When she hands in that final project she gets the router password back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daria Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 I've had some luck with similar kids using a timer. I tell them "We're going to work on this for X minutes", and set the timer. Whenever they stop to engage in something I consider "not work", such as crawling around on the floor looking for a pencil, trying to engage me in an unrelated conversation, going to the bathroom, etc . . . I stop the timer. I usually don't actually say anything. I just stop it, and when they're on task, I say "Thank you" and restart. For many kids, the visual representation of the time they're wasting is super helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrysalis Academy Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 What kills me is the wasted computer-time creep. "But I just checked my (email/facebook page/whatever) for a minute before I started working." Um, really? Not according to your browser history. I agree with luckymama, data is key. Once I started checking the browser history and confronting her with the amount of time she was wasting for each of those "just a minute" things, she has gotten much better. We also use a modified pomodoro technique - set the timer for 30 minutes, and really focus. When the timer rings, get up, stretch, go outside, play with the dog, get some tea - then go back and set it again for another 30 min. Two focused 30 min math sessions are now getting more accomplished than an hour and a half session complete with dawdling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewelma Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 I have a 6th grader who is this way. If you guys could go back in time, how would you remediate it?Ruth in NZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momto6inIN Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 I have a 6th grader who is this way. If you guys could go back in time, how would you remediate it? Ruth in NZ I second this!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barb_ Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 The timer method mentioned upthread by some of us has been the most effective for us. These kids are terrible at time management and need a lot more support and outside structure. That said, it's not a magic bullet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrysalis Academy Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 I'm no expert, I'm on my first kid, who's just 12! But the things that have worked best for us this year have been using the timer, and having a daily list. Shannon's list has two columns, independent work and together/discussion work. When she finishes all her indie work, we work together. When that is done, she is done for the day. So it motivates her to be efficient and get through it all so that she can finish and have a nice chunk of free time in the afternoon, rather than dawdling out her free time throughout the day. It's not a magic bullet, like Barb says. And I have to be really disciplined about checking up on her indie work, either when we meet in the afternoon, or the following morning before school starts. If I don't, I regret it - things aren't always going as smoothly as I assume they are, and I have caught her doing a couple of ridiculous things i never would have predicted she would do - corner-cutting, that will only hurt her in the long run. But, she's 12, I can't expect her to always keep her eye on the long run. Which is why I have to check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teachin'Mine Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 Maybe you could help him to set up rewards for himself. Finish x and x and then I can do x for x amount of time. Sometimes it helps to have something to look forward to rather than just see no end in sight. Since he'll be scheduling his own time in college, I'd really help him to find whatever it is that works for him. I also like keeping track of how his time is spent for a day or two to show him how much time is actually wasted and could be spent on things that are more fun. I'd also brainstorm with him about whether he's getting enough physical activity, and if not, how he can schedule that in. Could he do stationary biking with his shoulder injury? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nan in Mass Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Thinking about this some more... My slower worker is in his twenties now. He is better. He can really move when he needs to. Has he outgrown the slowness? No. Definitely not. And time management is still an issue. It is much more an issue of self-discipline now, though, and not as much misjudgment. Who among us doesn,t have to work at that? When we were homeschooling, we worked on breaking projects down into manageable small pieces and getting them onto a detailed list, scheduling the list, using a timer to keep ourselves honest and keep tasks from seeming overwhelming, choosing one,s location carefully and gathering things beforehand, and the other things mentioned here, especially in Rose,s post. Working a job helped. Having an iPod with long study playlists so music could be combined with study without the internet or lots of lovely breaks choosing the next song helped. You might want to seriously consider a gap year of working a full time, hard job, something where you have to keep going between scheduled breaks. It builds stamina and gives a bit more growing time before college. I was like this. Honestly? This isn't something I really outgrew until I was in my 40,s, and it still lingers in places where my priorities are at odds with everyone else,s. I, for example, think it is more important to check the bird feeder and hug the dog and cat goodbye than to be on time for something. I also will be late rather than cut off a phone conversation with my mother in law or a child who needs something. I stop and admire ephemeral beauty on the way to the car. I married a saint. Anyone else would have killed me by now. : ) College was a challenge but I did everything and my grades were ok. I just didn,t schedule it comfortably. Public school did give me some idea of how long various types of assignments took. I knew I needed at least 48 hours to do a research paper, the whole 48, not 2 days that included normal things like eating and sleeping. I think one of the most upsetting things about watching my homeschooled children manage their college classes is that they seem not to know how to cram like that, something that I consider an essential college survival skill unless you have unnaturally high self discipline lol. In my world, if you aren,t staying up most of every night in a panic during finals week, that means you have seriously underestimated what needs to be done and you are going to flunk something. My husband agrees. We,ve watched our college kids do exactly that so we feel pretty strongly about this. Even my academic superstar unnaturally organized and self disciplined nieces panic and stay up at the end or before important papers. I guess I feel that if you don,t panic or at least worry, you haven,t taken on a challenging enough work load and could be learning more, but my children have a set of priorities that is not the same as me, one that puts a depressed friend first, for example, and doesn,t think the world will end if they don,t know when Napolean died, or even, gasp, flunk something. They are right, actually, just like I am right about hugging the dog before I leave her so she knows I haven,t just forgotten her and that I will come back. Nan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 One of the Linguisystems Executive Function Training workbooks has some self-monitoring charts. I was just realizing this might be something good for us to go to. Dd does the overwhelmed so I'll take a pinterest break thing. Obviously pinterest is gone. ;) Not that I believe in miracle cures, but for the moment I'm latched onto Cogmed. Swimmermom, I'm confused. I thought you had decided a year ago to pursue evals?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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