Book a Week in 2014 - BW49

[Nan in Mass]

The videos (not the choir ones) - Gak!  Don't I missed anything not having a tv growing up lol.

 

I guess I have trouble with the word spirituality, too.  I wonder why?  It must be associated with something that makes me shy away.  Maybe the sort of people who when you are driving with them and lost start closing their eyes and saying they can feel your destination coming closer, it's right around the corner now?

 

Now I'm curious about which Bleak Midwinter is in our hymn book.  Not MY hymnbook, but the one I HATE that is used in our church.

 

Pam - I guess if you are used to the voice, it would be less of a problem.  It wouldn't nag any worse than wordless, pictureless thoughts can nag.  It just sounds a bit tiring to me...  Can you fail at meditation?  I thought you just did it or didn't do it.  Failing would be not doing it, not sitting there or stopping chanting or walking or whatever?  Maybe?  I don't actually know that much about Buddhism.  It is something I do sometimes (and like doing) but not something I really set out to learn about.  I know nothing about EO except that their calendar differs from ours.  I'm still thinking about your bit about that compares it with my own Buddhist experience.

 

Nan

[shukriyya]

Okay, let's try this...without thinking too much, how do each of you receive the word 'journey'? See it? Hear it? A color? A sound?

[Stacia]

Okay, let's try this...without thinking too much, how do each of you receive the word 'journey'? See it? Hear it? A color? A sound?

 

I think of the letters as separate forms, followed by a path in the woods.

[Violet Crown]

Okay, let's try this...without thinking too much, how do each of you receive the word 'journey'? See it? Hear it? A color? A sound?

Sound. "Don't stop ... Believing ...."

[Jane in NC]

Okay, let's try this...without thinking too much, how do each of you receive the word 'journey'? See it? Hear it? A color? A sound?

 

First image that popped into my head was a highly stylized sort of poster of a woman's silhouette with a book in one hand, holding a child's hand with the other.  Lots of colors in the background ala Peter Max.

 

The book image is obviously connect to this thread.

 

[hornblower]

Sound. "Don't stop ... Believing ...."

 

Faithfully.

 

 

[shukriyya]

I think of the letters as separate forms, followed by a path in the woods.

 

 

Sound. "Don't stop ... Believing ...."

 

 

First image that popped into my head was a highly stylized sort of poster of a woman's silhouette with a book in one hand, holding a child's hand with the other.  Lots of colors in the background ala Peter Max.

 

The book image is obviously connect to this thread.

 

 

 

Faithfully.

 

 

 

These are all so fascinating!

 

Aren't we an astonishment of qualities?!

[Rosie_0801]

Okay, let's try this...without thinking too much, how do each of you receive the word 'journey'? See it? Hear it? A color? A sound?

An image of the open road, then being in the driveway and feeling the presence of my brother as I hand over the jangling car keys, then to dd hurrying to the car, then back to the open road.

[hornblower]

Honestly journey was just a word I heard in my head until Violet Crown got me off on that rock ballad tangent.... & I fell in with 'open arms'....

[Kareni]

Okay, let's try this...without thinking too much, how do each of you receive the word 'journey'? See it? Hear it? A color? A sound?

 

I simply see the word on the screen.  For all the romance that I read, I'm not at all romantic!

 

Regards,

Kareni

[Stacia]

Sound. "Don't stop ... Believing ...."

Faithfully.

 

& I fell in with 'open arms'....

ROFL!!!

 

You do realize I now have a rotation of Journey songs stuck in my head!!!

[Kareni]

This afternoon I finished David R. George's Crucible: McCoy: Provenance of Shadows which is a Star Trek (the original series) novel. It's been a while since I read a Star Trek novel, and I enjoyed it.  I read it on the recommendation of someone on the board.  I could have sworn I received the recommendation in this thread How would you introduce a child to Star Trek?, but I'm clearly misremembering.

 

"David R. George's Crucible Trilogy explores the legacy of one pivotal, crucial moment in the lives of the men at the heart of Star Trek -- what led them to it, and to each other, and how their destinies were intertwined.

For Doctor Leonard McCoy, life takes two paradoxically divergent paths. In one, displaced in time, he saves a woman from dying in a traffice accident, and in doing so alters Earth's history. Stranded in the past, he struggles to find a way back to his own century. But living an existence he was not meant to, he will eventually have to move on, and ultimately face the shadows born of his lost life.

In the other, he is prevented from saving the woman's life, allowing Earth's history to remain unchanged. Returning to the present, he is nonetheless haunted by the echoes of an existence he never lived, and by fears which will bring him full circle to the shadows he never faced."

 

Regards,

Kareni

 

 

[Robin M]

Okay, let's try this...without thinking too much, how do each of you receive the word 'journey'? See it? Hear it? A color? A sound?

I see a road.

[Robin M]

Too many things to actually try and quote to free for all.

 

Jane - Beautiful beautiful quotes. Thanks you so much!

 

 

I have had this link on my ipad for the longest time. Came across during a time period of trying to explain to my son about our internal monologue. 

 

realpeoplepress.com/blog/silencing-internal-voices

 

Made quite an impression.   I've learned to make friends with my internal monologue when trying to meditate or going to sleep. Even when writing. I really added to it when I started writing stories.  All those characters in your head, watching a movie, directing it, figuring out which direction to go and have those characters actually change your mind. Trippy.

 

When I read, and the story is really well written, I disappear into the book, I'm in the movie.  Which is why I hate being interrupted when deep into the story.  Never understood it until I read Upside Down Brilliance.   One of those many books I read while trying to figure out my special kiddo and found me.  

 

Anyway it is probably why I don't like graphic novels because the pictures don't match what's in my head.  Now non fiction,that's a whole different story. Reading words, taking them into my brain, mulling and absorbing.  What do I keep, what do I throw away.  I have to take copious notes because other wise once I done, it's all gone. 

 

 

 

[Kareni]

I just came across these Best of ... lists all of which are from the Slate Book Review:

 

The Slate Book Review Top 10 Books of the Year. (Interestingly, all of the works in this list are by women.)

 

Dan Kois’ favorite books of the year.

 

and  Best Books 2014: Slate staff picks.  (This is three pages long, so be aware or you'll miss the final two pages.)

 

I'll admit that many of these books are unknown to me, but it's always fun to see such lists.  I was flipping through one of the books on the last list a day or two ago at the library, and I hope to revisit it ~  What If? Serious Scientific Answers to Absurd Hypothetical Questions by Randall Munroe; it's by the creator of xkcd.

 

Regards,

Kareni

[aggieamy]

Just popping in to say that DH and I found a house centipede in the house today.  I figured by BaW friends would be interested to know that I've joined the strange bug infestestion crowd.  We had to look it up online because it was such an odd looking insect and neither of us had seen one before.  It also eats spiders and cockroaches so it's a "good guy" insect.

 

Don't go away yet. I have an important announcement to make (that will bring these poetry/prayer/meditation musings to a screeching halt)...

 

Amy, God's Gift: Over 100 Studs, Stallions and Dreamboats from the 70s and 80s does *not* include Paul Hogan.

 

:lol:
 

 

What a stupid book that must be then!  

 

LOL.  This is my happy place. Violet Crown, Eliana, and Nan are discussing fine literature and the rest of us just keep talking about Paul Hogan in short shorts.  It's wonderful that all types are welcome here.  

 

*singing*

 

"If loving 1980's Paul Hogan is wrong, then I don't want to be right ..."

[aggieamy]

re: Paul Hogan:

 

 

 

 

Oh, all right already!

 

Cue music: Mucho Macho Man, by the inimitable and unforgettable Village People.  Man enters bar, wearing wide-lapeled white satin shirt unbuttoned to navel and skin tight black pants, with heavy gold medallion nestled into abundant chest hair.  Wait!  That's not Paul Hogan!  That's Tony Orlando!  Man eyes vivacious curly blonde across bar.  She smiles.  He lights cigarette.  Remember when people used to smoke cigarettes on camera?  When did that stop happening?  He keels over choking.  Blonde giggles.  He re-lights and manages a puff.  

 

Bartender serves healthy tumblerful of smoky-colored liquor.  He picks up glass.  He toasts blonde across bar, winks, and raises glass to mouth.  Cigarette, which lamentably is held in same hand, is also raised and sadly burns man on forehead.  Great shaking of man's shaggy curls and tapping of injured forehead.  Blonde smiles sympathetically...

 

 

 

(alternatively, see the image starting at about 2:00...)

 

 

 

Pam is funny.  True story!

 

In an instinctively Pavlovian response to the bolded suddenly the music inside my head is blaring...

 

 

 

Now this is stuck in my head.  I can't wait for Disco to make it's comeback. 

[Nan in Mass]

Shukriyya - About the word journey - without thinking about it at all, I picture some people walking away from me with knapsacks and staffs, and then right after that, I picture a chart of the ocean.

 

Nan

[Nan in Mass]

Eliana - Can you explain the bit about the candle? I think I understood up until then. I know plenty of people who match your description and don't consider themselves religeous or spiritual or anything. I don't think of myself as spiritual or religeous, either, and was very surprised when I wound up falling back on the word "soul" to describe to my children why one shouldn't do certain things even though they aren't illegal because they are soul destroying. There has got to be a non-religeous word for that but I couldn't think of one other than integrity, which was rather beyond my young teens and wasn't a strong enough word, anyway. I know integrity is associated with strength, but it doesn't have nearly the impact of the word "soul" lol. I guess I think of a soul as a candle, too, but with the ability to have holes eaten in it by soul-destroying activities, which doesn't make a lot of sense. It seems funny to think of myself as being damaged enough by past experience to resist the word spirituality, but I suppose I am. We have lots of religeously damaged people in our church, so many that we have to proceed with great caution and can't mention God or have traditional hymns. I am not one of them, having been brought up UU but UU itself substitutes the word "spiritual" for the semi-forbidden word religeous so consistently that maybe I have become allergic to it.

 

Jane - I am still mulling over your poems. And laughing over the invertibrates.

 

When I read, I hear the words at first and then go into the book and become completely unaware of the process of reading. I am a bit better at pulling out of that and skimming through any parts I don't personally want to live through, but I am still not good enough at it to want to read a lot of the stuff the rest of you find fascinating. How do you survive reading and experiencing all those bad things you read about?

 

Nan

[Rosie_0801]

One could say "spirit" instead of soul in a non-religious sense. People saying "that kid has spirit" aren't talking about souls.

[shukriyya]

I don't get the ambivalence towards the word spiritual. There's nothing woo-woo or elite or new age about it. Its etymology stems from the latin spiritus meaning breath or spirare the active component of this, to breathe.  Are you breathing? Then you're spiritual. Imbuing the word with qualities beyond that limits its use, relegates it to some cramped and confining self-conscious corner instead of the expansive, inclusive palace that it is.

[Violet Crown]

All I have to say on this topic is that, if someone brings up the subject, I say I'm religious but not spiritual. Which is not actually meant (entirely) facetiously. Back to books....

 

Family book report. For our end of the week treat, I took the littles to the discard bookstore, where Middle Girl dithered between Brontë(3)'s Tenant of Wildfell Hall and Richard Dana's Two Years Before the Mast. After reading the first chapter of each, she decided firmly on the sea adventure. That's my girl!

 

Wee Girl is working slowly through Paddington at Large. She's very excited to hear that there is a new Paddington movie. Did anybody hear the NPR movie review by a UK immigration lawyer? It was very sweet. Apparently poor Paddington would be in serious legal trouble, as he was only fleeing a natural disaster. But the lawyer conceded that it's not clear how the law would apply to a bear.

 

Dh is reading Lanark, a bizarre Scottish novel which appeared on one of Stacia's book list links as a must-read cult novel. This is the sort of thing he likes.

[shukriyya]

Wee Girl is working slowly through Paddington at Large. She's very excited to hear that there is a new Paddington movie. Did anybody hear the NPR movie review by a UK immigration lawyer? It was very sweet. Apparently poor Paddington would be in serious legal trouble, as he was only fleeing a natural disaster. But the lawyer conceded that it's not clear how the law would apply to a bear.

 

I loved the Paddington books as a child and had the pleasure of introducing them to ds several years ago. And yes, VC, I heard that charming and amusing NPR review this past week. As for the movie though my stodgy self can't imagine them being able to do justice to our marmalade-loving friend.

[Nan in Mass]

Quote isn't working this morning so I have to do this the hard way. Sorry...

 

Rosie said, "One could say "spirit" instead of soul in a non-religious sense. People saying "that kid has spirit" aren't talking about souls."

 

Yah, but... That sort of spirit means something different to me than the ghost sort of spirit and neither of those seems the same as soul to me. Soul seems something more ephemeral and more integral to a living person and spirit seems either more disembodied or more sporty. I would say "good hearted" probably rather than spirited unless I were refering to the ghost sort of the indominable sense of self sort. Both sound more mobile and active to me, while soul sounds more passive, just something one has and guards? I guess maybe something closer to Shukriyya's definition of spirit?

 

Shukriyya said, "I don't get the ambivalence towards the word spiritual. There's nothing woo-woo or elite or new age about it. Its etymology stems from the latin spiritus meaning breath or spirare the active component of this, to breathe. Are you breathing? Then you're spiritual. Imbuing the word with qualities beyond that limits its use, relegates it to some cramped and confining self-conscious corner instead of the expansive, inclusive palace that it is."

 

Well, all I can say is that perhaps I have met more new age people than you have, met and had to depend on for my comfort and safety. At the end of a long day, I am more interested in getting the carrots cut up for the stew fast in order to feed my starving teenager than I am in discussing the power of crystals and their effect on one's spirituality. Nor am I interested in applying spirituality in order to find said teenager. And I'm not too happy about having the word substituted for all the more beautiful but more religeous (have a feeling I've been mispelling it this whole time?) words. But maybe that is what you are saying? That this is a misuse of the word? My just-to-be-safe, because-it-is-easier, not-well-reasoned belief is that anything alive has a soul. Which should put me in agreement with your statement. So if spirit and soul mean the same thing, does this mean that you believe that my new shrimp have souls? Just trying to figure out whether I have done a horrible thing by putting three in the goldfish tank and only being able to find one this morning...

 

We seem to still be discussing whether things are alive or not. And invertibrates. Or however you spell that.

 

Nan

[Nan in Mass]

Jane - My life was full of hawks yesterday and I thought of you. A redtail flew across in front of our car at eye level, flat flat flat and moving so fast! Then we saw a beautiful large slim pointy-tailed one sitting on a yellow road curve sign, very still. And when I went to feed my birds, I saw by the patches of feathers that a hawk must have picked one of my doves off the birdfeeder. I've seen it happen which is why I'm pretty sure I know what happened. There is a little one that swoops in and snatches, from time to time.

 

Nan

[JennW in SoCal]

 

 

I'll admit that many of these books are unknown to me, but it's always fun to see such lists.  I was flipping through one of the books on the last list a day or two ago at the library, and I hope to revisit it ~  What If? Serious Scientific Answers to Absurd Hypothetical Questions by Randall Munroe; it's by the creator of xkcd.

 

 

 

I used to read "what if?" that runs on Tuesdays on the xkcd site, but I didn't always have the patience to sit and read the methodical and logical reasoning that makes the answers for the week's "what if?" question.  But Randall Munroe is brilliant, and the book would make a great present for the geeky science nut in your house.

 

Which reminds me that I still need to pick up a copy of the book for my college boy who introduced me to xkcd a few years back!

 

I must have missed a small chunk of yesterday's discussions.  When I left the house to go teach the topics had progressed from roaches, to "In the Bleak Midwinter".   I logged back on when I got home and the discussion was about Paul Hogan and the use of the word spiritual.  I never have gone back to find the transition -- the conversation has been too entertaining on its own!

 

 

Journey?  Its mostly Tolkein:  

 

The road goes ever on and on  

 

or

 

Day has ended, dim my eyes/ But journey long before me lies.

 

But now that you mention Journey, well when the lights go down in the city, I think of seeing them in concert in my dating days with dh, or of the conversations on campus at the University of Hawaii after a Journey concert: girl #1 "Do you think Steve Perry is hapa (half white/half asian)?  He's got the eyes"

girl #2  "Yeah but that nose!"

[Stacia]

Happy St. Nicolaas Day, my fellow BaWers.

[Nan in Mass]

Oh Journey is a BAND and you guys are QUOTING. Now I get it. I didn't think to associate quotes with that word, despite having grown up with Tolkein. About half this thread goes over my head. Or maybe three quarters...

[6packofun]

More plague literature! Yeah! We really have to put together a master list.

 

LOL  It's not THE plague, it's a pandemic set in modern times.  I guess that might not have been clear in my description with the whole Shakespeare bit!  Does that matter for your list?  :P

 

[shukriyya]

Yah, but... That sort of spirit means something different to me than the ghost sort of spirit and neither of those seems the same as soul to me. Soul seems something more ephemeral and more integral to a living person and spirit seems either more disembodied or more sporty. I would say "good hearted" probably rather than spirited unless I were refering to the ghost sort of the indominable sense of self sort. Both sound more mobile and active to me, while soul sounds more passive, just something one has and guards? I guess maybe something closer to Shukriyya's definition of spirit?

 

Well, all I can say is that perhaps I have met more new age people than you have, met and had to depend on for my comfort and safety. At the end of a long day, I am more interested in getting the carrots cut up for the stew fast in order to feed my starving teenager than I am in discussing the power of crystals and their effect on one's spirituality. Nor am I interested in applying spirituality in order to find said teenager. And I'm not too happy about having the word substituted for all the more beautiful but more religeous (have a feeling I've been mispelling it this whole time?) words. But maybe that is what you are saying? That this is a misuse of the word? My just-to-be-safe, because-it-is-easier, not-well-reasoned belief is that anything alive has a soul. Which should put me in agreement with your statement. So if spirit and soul mean the same thing, does this mean that you believe that my new shrimp have souls? Just trying to figure out whether I have done a horrible thing by putting three in the goldfish tank and only being able to find one this morning...

 

We seem to still be discussing whether things are alive or not. And invertibrates. Or however you spell that.

 

Nan

 

Yes, you got it, Nan. And I dare not enter into an online semantics discussion on the words 'soul' and 'spirit'. Could you imagine??  :willy_nilly:  Plus I sense that belief is mostly irrelevant to the existence of such things as Soul, Spirit, God...how could such Mystery depend on something as small as my belief, as narrow as my ordering of the universe, my defining what is and isn't real. Soul, Spirit and God will continue to Be with our without my consent.  A celebration is in order!

 

In the meantime I shall enjoy the image of you cutting up bright orange carrots at the sink while you look out your window and enjoy the various avian friends that flit through your awareness.

 

And to keep things bookish...I'm finishing up a very quick read Notes from a Dog Rescue in Progress.

 

[Robin M]

When it comes to spirituality, religiosity, soul, faith, life - whatever one calls it - however we define it for ourselves, if it can be defined, we are all so unique  and individual that it is impossible sometimes to explain.   It really all just comes down to believing and whatever one believes is right for them, is their truth, is their faith.    Make sense.    

 

One of my favorite quotes:

 

Reason is our soul’s left hand, Faith her right. ~John Donne

 

 

[Mom-ninja.]

I love SH. I, too, feel hesitant about the title of his book but I've really enjoyed all his others. 

 

What exactly is a "New Atheist"? 

[Nan in Mass]

When it comes to spirituality, religiosity, soul, faith, life - whatever one calls it - however we define it for ourselves, if it can be defined, we are all so unique  and individual that it is impossible sometimes to explain.   It really all just comes down to believing and whatever one believes is right for them, is their truth, is their faith.    Make sense.    

 

One of my favorite quotes:

 

Reason is our soul’s left hand, Faith her right. ~John Donne

 

 

 

Yes, of course, but sometimes one very much needs to be able to explain it, as was the case when I was trying to explain to a child why being unscrupulous but legal was damaging in the long run.  Then one is stuck using words, even if it means resorting to words that one thought didn't really have a place in one's life.  (I came to terms with that long ago for the particular word soul because over time, it became obvious that it was an excedingly useful word that did indeed belong in our family vocabulary and culture, even if it's presencettakes a bit of explaining, upon occasion.  My bil's, for all their religiousness, are going to raise their eyebrows if they hear us use it.

 

And the problem with spirituality is that I've come to associate the word with incompetence, unfortunately.  Or with people using it as a euphomism.  A lot of this meandering is me figuring that out because someone else commented that they didn't like the word.

 

The rest of my meanderings are me worrying over missing shrimp.

 

I like the quote.  I keep meaning to read some more John Donne.  I've only read the tiniest bit.

 

Nan

[Jane in NC]

When I was a child, I had a very distinctive geometric image of my soul.  Reading this discussion reminded me of how I pictured my soul.  As an adult, I find it a bit odd that I assigned something tangible to something so intangible. But maybe my mind needed to do that.

 

Did anyone else hear Scott Simon's interview with Nicholas Vreeland on NPR this morning?  I'd like to see the film about Vreeland, Monk with a Camera.

[Nan in Mass]

Yes, you got it, Nan. And I dare not enter into an online semantics discussion on the words 'soul' and 'spirit'. Could you imagine??  :willy_nilly:  Plus I sense that belief is mostly irrelevant to the existence of such things as Soul, Spirit, God...how could such Mystery depend on something as small as my belief, as narrow as my ordering of the universe, my defining what is and isn't real. Soul, Spirit and God will continue to Be with our without my consent.  A celebration is in order!

 

In the meantime I shall enjoy the image of you cutting up bright orange carrots at the sink while you look out your window and enjoy the various avian friends that flit through your awareness.

 

And to keep things bookish...I'm finishing up a very quick read Notes from a Dog Rescue in Progress.

 

 

I wasn't so much thinking of this as a debate about meaning as a personal search for a word other than soul to use to convey a specific idea to my children.  I can see your and Robin's point about this being a potential problem, though.  I will go back to worrying about missing shrimp. : )

 

I haven't thought much about belief, at least not in a personal sense.  I agree that it doesn't matter what I believe.  Can you imagine carrying the burden of believing it did.  Whoof!

 

LOL - The particular sink I was thinking of faced a cinderblock wall in a church basement.  I was trying to get supper for a crowd of hungry people with a dearth of kitchen equipment, cutting up a mound of carrots and potatoes with my Swiss army knife, while my new-age helper was trying to convince me of the importance of being open to my spirituality and becoming miffed with me because I was unwilling to share my beliefs only to have them contradicted.  Or something like that.  You can picture me cutting up carrots at my sink at home, though, looking out at the lake, hearing the kingfisher sitting on the corner of the house right about over the stove.  I cut up carrots there far more often than in basements.

 

How is your puppy?

 

Nan

 

PS - Your book link says, "It’s the story of an attempt to redeem an unredeemable dog."  Does that mean there is a sad ending?

[shukriyya]

When I was a child, I had a very distinctive geometric image of my soul.  Reading this discussion reminded me of how I pictured my soul.  As an adult, I find it a bit odd that I assigned something tangible to something so intangible. But maybe my mind needed to do that.

 

Did anyone else hear Scott Simon's interview with Nicholas Vreeland on NPR this morning?  I'd like to see the film about Vreeland, Monk with a Camera.

 

See that makes sense to me, the manifest colliding with the hidden, your child's mind unhindered by the why. I took a listen to the interview you posted. Interesting.

 

I wasn't so much thinking of this as a debate about meaning as a personal search for a word other than soul to use to convey a specific idea to my children.  I can see your and Robin's point about this being a potential problem, though.  I will go back to worrying about missing shrimp. : )

 

I haven't thought much about belief, at least not in a personal sense.  I agree that it doesn't matter what I believe.  Can you imagine carrying the burden of believing it did.  Whoof!

 

LOL - The particular sink I was thinking of faced a cinderblock wall in a church basement.  I was trying to get supper for a crowd of hungry people with a dearth of kitchen equipment, cutting up a mound of carrots and potatoes with my Swiss army knife, while my new-age helper was trying to convince me of the importance of being open to my spirituality and becoming miffed with me because I was unwilling to share my beliefs only to have them contradicted.  Or something like that.  You can picture me cutting up carrots at my sink at home, though, looking out at the lake, hearing the kingfisher sitting on the corner of the house right about over the stove.  I cut up carrots there far more often than in basements.

 

How is your puppy?

 

Nan

 

PS - Your book link says, "It’s the story of an attempt to redeem an unredeemable dog."  Does that mean there is a sad ending?

 

Well, your church basement description gave me a chuckle, thank you, Nan. Puppy is good, good, good :D

 

The book I linked isn't really a book, it's more an essay and I won't be counting it towards my 52. But to answer your question, I think the unredeemable descriptive refers to the state she came into the rescue in, no one was going to adopt her because she was a mess. The book/essay is ongoing, a beginning really so I can't speak to its ending though the author has a blog called The Dog in the Clouds detailing their journey together. Some of the videos are heartwarming.

[Violet Crown]

Happy St. Nicolaas Day, my fellow BaWers.

 

 

And a merry one it was! Middle Girl did very well at her math competition today, fueled by nothing but a tangerine and half a chocolate santa.

 

 

LOL  It's not THE plague, it's a pandemic set in modern times.  I guess that might not have been clear in my description with the whole Shakespeare bit!  Does that matter for your list?  :P

 

Nope! Any plague, pandemic, or unpleasant bug counts.

[Robin M]

Yes, of course, but sometimes one very much needs to be able to explain it, as was the case when I was trying to explain to a child why being unscrupulous but legal was damaging in the long run.  Then one is stuck using words, even if it means resorting to words that one thought didn't really have a place in one's life.  (I came to terms with that long ago for the particular word soul because over time, it became obvious that it was an exceedingly useful word that did indeed belong in our family vocabulary and culture, even if it's presence takes a bit of explaining, upon occasion.  My bil's, for all their religiousness, are going to raise their eyebrows if they hear us use it.

Ah got it. I think.   Hard to explain to kids especially when you can't use an analogy or metaphor when they don't understand the gist of what you are trying to say.  I have a child that is very black and white, no shades of gray when it comes to rules, morals, life, etc.    What I have found that works is the rules.   Talking about the rules and law and character. What a good person does and how their actions can be interpreted or misinterpreted.    Depending on how old the child is, is how much detail has to be given.  I've had to dig deep and really think it out in order to give my child a clear explanation of why something is wrong.   In other words, you have to use the verbage that gets through to your child. 

 

If one kid accepts 'well it is against god's word and in the bible and states it wrong so you shouldn't do it,'  then great. No need for further explanation and one can wipe their brow  and say whew, another issue averted.  Kind of the easy way out.   Then you'll have another kid who wants to know exactly where and when it was said and how that applies in life today.   And if you don't come up with the exact information and can't prove it, well then one is up the creek.   An argument one can use only if it is proveable.  Whereas another child will listen to rules, straight basic rules and laws and obey or test, depending on their personality.      We're back to the uniqueness of character and finding what works.    We all have guidelines to live by and using those rules and guideline, they  help make daily life pleasant or unpleasant.  Sharing the reality of unscrupulous behavior and how one will be perceived in life as well as how it affects them, their very own soul or psyche ( for lack of a better word ) and the people around them,  is a hard lesson.   Especially when we are surrounded by public figures who are supposed to be role models and exhibiting the behavior we don't want our children to emulate.  Okay I'll step down off my soap box now.   

 

 Time for me to close up shop and go to the grocery store, then head home.

 

Really wide variety of interesting and strange discussions this week.  

[Nan in Mass]

Robin, yes, that's what I meant.  Because the Bible says so doesn't fly in my family.  Plato's Republic goes over better lol.  I need reasons.  Most of the reasons boil down to the golden rule, but that doesn't make a terribly good argument for the more argumentative sort of teenager because it is too easy for them to say they wouldn't mind if someone did that to them.  The because-it-destroys-your-soul reason, if said with enough conviction, was inarguable.  I don't think it would have worked if they hadn't known at bottom that I was right and they were wrong and just were hoping there was some sort of loophole.  I just remembered that my oldest uses the word karma to explain his strangely upright mother to his friends lol.  I'm way too New England to use the word but I'm pretty sure that is what he means is not having holes in one's soul.  I am SO glad I did great books/TWTM with the younger two.  I think all that reading of classics helped nail down their morals.  Ok, I'm not exactly happy that youngest focused on Machiavelli and Sun Tzu, but at least he got to those after he'd been through a bunch of other things.

 

Nan

[Jane in NC]

 

 

And a merry one it was! Middle Girl did very well at her math competition today, fueled by nothing but a tangerine and half a chocolate santa.

 

  Nope! Any plague, pandemic, or unpleasant bug counts.

 

Back to cockroaches? ;)

[Robin M]

You know how we are always struggling for australian books to read.  Struggle no more:

 

Check out the Aussie Author Challenge

 

Lots of links to peruse.  Enjoy!

[shukriyya]

Feeling moved to share this poem written by a dear friend of mine, a mother of four, grandmother of several, teacher of many, lover of Life..

 

Mothering
 
Little in the womb,
Then bigger,
Then fit tight in there,
In you, the kid glove.
The mother.
 
They slither out.
(though not exactly)
and still for some years
but exponentially decreasing
they fit themselves into your arms,
your heart, your whole embrace
until one day
they grow out of you.
 
Limbs won’t fit right
Knees bang knees.
They take up their secret space,
Don’t want yours.
(with kindly or needy exceptions)
 
Meanwhile,
You still wear the kid glove
Threadbare and holy.
 
But by God
By nature
And by the grace of love
You’ll wear it for life.

[Violet Crown]

You know how we are always struggling for australian books to read. Struggle no more:

 

Check out the Aussie Author Challenge

 

Lots of links to peruse. Enjoy!

Hm. I've got an Australian book called The Man Who Loved Children sitting around here somewhere, which I keep meaning to read.

[Kareni]

 

My two favourite Aussie novelists are the one I married :) and ...

 

 

What type of book does your husband write, Sadie? 

 

Regards,

Kareni

[Nan in Mass]

VC - If your daughter managed her math ordeal on a tangerine and half a chocolate Santa, then I think your daughter was sustained by Christmas, which is a lot more than some vitamin C and chocolate. : ) Good for her!

 

Nan

[aggieamy]

I love the poetry postings on here.  (I'm rude by not quoting them an individually thanking the posters but I'm feeling a bit lazy tonight.)

 

How did I miss how awesome poetry was when I was in high school?!?!

[Pam in CT]

Pam - I was told by somebody associated with the sort of Buddhist my bil's are (much more sedentary sp? than the sort I've been associated with) that the idea is to let the words be the ripples on the surface of the water and to ignore those and sink down deep in the water.

 

Nan

Yes, I think this may be along the lines of what my friend has tried to describe -- don't fight the words, just observe that they're there, acknowledge them, and send them on...

 

 

I guess I have trouble with the word spirituality, too.  I wonder why?  It must be associated with something that makes me shy away.  Maybe the sort of people who when you are driving with them and lost start closing their eyes and saying they can feel your destination coming closer, it's right around the corner now?

 

----------

 

Pam - I guess if you are used to the voice, it would be less of a problem.  It wouldn't nag any worse than wordless, pictureless thoughts can nag.  It just sounds a bit tiring to me...  Can you fail at meditation?  I thought you just did it or didn't do it.  Failing would be not doing it, not sitting there or stopping chanting or walking or whatever?  Maybe?  I don't actually know that much about Buddhism.  It is something I do sometimes (and like doing) but not something I really set out to learn about.  I know nothing about EO except that their calendar differs from ours.  I'm still thinking about your bit about that compares it with my own Buddhist experience.

 

Nan

 

Yes, of course, but sometimes one very much needs to be able to explain it, as was the case when I was trying to explain to a child why being unscrupulous but legal was damaging in the long run.  Then one is stuck using words, even if it means resorting to words that one thought didn't really have a place in one's life.  (I came to terms with that long ago for the particular word soul because over time, it became obvious that it was an excedingly useful word that did indeed belong in our family vocabulary and culture, even if it's presencettakes a bit of explaining, upon occasion.  My bil's, for all their religiousness, are going to raise their eyebrows if they hear us use it.

 

And the problem with spirituality is that I've come to associate the word with incompetence, unfortunately.  Or with people using it as a euphomism.  A lot of this meandering is me figuring that out because someone else commented that they didn't like the word.

 

 

 

Interesting.  So the word "spirituality" has been sort of... tainted?... by association with a type of seeker that you find hard to relate to?

 

I've assuredly come across seekers I find hard to relate to, but for me the word "spirituality" connotes something fairly simple, along the lines of "intentional".... (as opposed to other words that I have had / in some cases continue to have difficulty applying to myself, including soul and sacred and prayer and, well, God).  

 

For me, it does not (necessarily) have anything to do with religion -- I have one close friend who is very spiritual without any formal affiliation or identification with any religion; and know a number of others who do identify strongly as religious but are not especially inclined spiritually; and others who have some of both...

 

 

 

ETA: re: failing at meditation - well, I suppose what I've failed at is the sitting-still and "emptying the mind" that I understand (?) to be the aim of at least certain forms of it.  Some of the tools that Thich Nhat Hanh has written on, walking meditation and multiple-times-daily "callbacks to attentiveness" I've been somewhat better at integrating as habits...

[Kareni]

Um. Literary fiction ? He's inspired by his Anglo Indian culture and his first novel was a coming of age book. The second one was sort of a more complex investigation into culture and family, and the third one - no idea - I haven't seen any drafts. (He helps me edit but not vice versa). He also writes short stories and does reviews. He's been pretty much side tracked by a PhD lately.

 

 

Thanks for sharing those details, Sadie.  And, yes, I can see how working towards one's PhD would be distracting!

 

And, if you care to share, what is it that you write?

 

Regards,

Kareni

 

[Kareni]

Poetry.

 

 

I hear you on the need for that paying job; it's good to be able to eat.

 

I hope you'll continue to enjoy your poetry writing whether it's solely for you or shared with others.

 

Regards,

Kareni

[Rosie_0801]

 

What exactly is a "New Atheist"? 

 

An argumentative one.

 

 

 

Nan, perhaps your family would respond better to "eroding the quality of self."