To what extent would you let your dc choose curriculum?

[Sue G in PA]

Day 3 is under our belt. Some curriculum has changed this year and after 3 days of it...I'm realizing how different implementation is vs. just planning if you KWIM. You can look at a certain book/program and LOVE it, but when the rubber meets the road...it's just not a good "fit". So, ds10 has been using LLATL for a while now and he complains every time he uses it. So, we tried ILL today and he hated that too. I'm realizing he just hates "work". If it's too hard, takes too much time, etc. he hates it. To what extent do you listen to your dc about their curriculum woes? He hated Saxon...so we switched to MUS. He like it for a while, but now that we've started back...he's complaining about that, too! Ugh! I don't want him to hate school...but I can't keep changing curr. just b/c he doesn't like it, KWIM? I'm sticking w/ MUS b/c I paid too much for it, but also adding Singapore. Now, should I ditch LLATL and keep ILL...it was the lesser of 2 evils for him (I asked him). I'm just not sure what to do. My ds8 also doesn't care for LLATL. I paid a pretty penny for those books (used even!). WWYD? Why does this have to be so hard? Why can't they just do what I tell them to do and not complain? :D

[JudoMom]

Honestly? I don't. Almost at all. I can see once they hit upper middle school or high school letting them have input, but until then if I like it and think it will meet our goals, then we use it. Hopefully they enjoy it, but even if they don't they need to complete the work I assign to them. And their opinions change from month to month (sometimes even day to day :glare:) on what they enjoy (depending on what they are learning). They don't have the long-term vision I have for them. The only time we switch (which so far has been Latin companies and grammar companies and handwriting) is if I can't teach a program well enough to engage them or if I see it's not working for whatever reason. But they have no say in the switch. We just muscle through the hard times and I pray they'll appreciate it when they are grown.

[Pink Fairy]

That's a tough one. I think if it's too hard, as in not grade appropriate, I'd change. And if it's not a good fit for his learning style (i.e., he really struggles with writing, and this requires an essay a day), I'd change. Does it take too long? If so, is it because he's not working at a reasonable pace, or because the assignment is too long?

 

If it's pure laziness, I wouldn't change a thing. I actually give extra work in the subject for whining and complaining. One or two times, and they are usually cured.

 

Good luck! :grouphug:

[Melanie]

My kids are stuck with my choices in math, Latin, grammar, and logic. I allow them some input in content areas (history and science) but since we don't use textbooks in those subjects it's much easier to implement their choices.

[Carol in Cal.]

Day 3 is under our belt. Some curriculum has changed this year and after 3 days of it...I'm realizing how different implementation is vs. just planning if you KWIM. You can look at a certain book/program and LOVE it, but when the rubber meets the road...it's just not a good "fit". So, ds10 has been using LLATL for a while now and he complains every time he uses it. So, we tried ILL today and he hated that too. I'm realizing he just hates "work". If it's too hard, takes too much time, etc. he hates it. To what extent do you listen to your dc about their curriculum woes? He hated Saxon...so we switched to MUS. He like it for a while, but now that we've started back...he's complaining about that, too! Ugh! I don't want him to hate school...but I can't keep changing curr. just b/c he doesn't like it, KWIM? I'm sticking w/ MUS b/c I paid too much for it, but also adding Singapore. Now, should I ditch LLATL and keep ILL...it was the lesser of 2 evils for him (I asked him). I'm just not sure what to do. My ds8 also doesn't care for LLATL. I paid a pretty penny for those books (used even!). WWYD? Why does this have to be so hard? Why can't they just do what I tell them to do and not complain? :D

 

You're the parent.

 

If complaining is eating up all your time so he has less work to do, it's really paying off for him. Or if it's just making him feel better, it's paying off for him. Or, maybe it's just a habit and he doesn't realize how annoying it is or how much time it is costing you.

 

Now you get to pick. Have you made reasonable curriculum choices? Are you prepared to go to bat for them and make them happen? Or don't you really care about these?

 

For the ones where you are prepared to go to bat, I would stop allowing arguments. Period. I would just be stubborn and move on. "This is what we are going to do." Then change the subject to some assigment or something. When DD used to complain a lot as a habit, I instituted a ticket system that really worked out pretty well. I would give her 10 tickets each morning. Every time she complained or argued I would take one away. (Argued means questioned an instruction more than once in a row--kind of like the 'asked and answered' objection in court.) I would give her one extra if she finished core stuff by 10:30 (math, reading, and writing, IIRC). I would give her two extra if she finished them by 10. (This was because she really worked better and faster in the morning, so I wanted to incent her to get going and get done before lunch time.) I told her that once she got 100 tickets we would go on a special outing, but that she certainly didn't want to know what would happen if she lost all of her tickets for a given day. (I had no idea what would happen. But it would have been very bad.) Anyway, this worked so well and so fast because it gave her that flat feedback, no drama, just "May I have a ticket, please?" and keep going. She was visibly catching herself before arguing pretty quickly. I honestly think that she had no idea how much she had been doing it.

 

For the curricula that you don't really care about, I would offer him a choice but say that he has to show you that you were right to let him choose by diligently working on it and by not complaining.

 

Personally, I think that the whole love of learning homeschooling ideal is largely fictional. (Well, there's a negative rep magnet for you.) I don't know too many kids who love learning their multiplication tables. Some things you just have to grind through, and as parent/teachers, we have to make our children do them sometimes. That's just the nature of things. So if my DD really hates a curriculum I will consider that, but generally schoolwork is not at all optional and I don't discuss curriculum choices with her very much.

[jamnkats]

You're the parent.

Personally, I think that the whole love of learning homeschooling ideal is largely fictional. (Well, there's a negative rep magnet for you.) I don't know too many kids who love learning their multiplication tables. Some things you just have to grind through, and as parent/teachers, we have to make our children do them sometimes. That's just the nature of things. So if my DD really hates a curriculum I will consider that, but generally schoolwork is not at all optional and I don't discuss curriculum choices with her very much.

 

I think this is true if you're completely managing what and how they learn, but it hasn't proven at all true with my kids. They LOVE learning and doing and yes, the boys are even loving multiplication. But we wait until they are ready for the material and find they learn it really quickly. I also refuse to force "learning" on a child - it isn't worth the time and they don't retain the information. But so far, we haven't ground through anything and the kids are still loving learning.

[Plaid Dad]

I have asked for dd's input in trying to decide between two programs, but I reserve the right to make the final decision. She's only 7 and simply does not have the maturity or perspective to make more than very small decisions about her education at this stage. ("Do you want to do math first today, or Latin?") If she were a teenager, there would be room for more discussion and negotiation, but for now, I'm paying, I'm teaching...I'm deciding. :D

[Murphy101]

I have asked for dd's input in trying to decide between two programs, but I reserve the right to make the final decision. She's only 7 and simply does not have the maturity or perspective to make more than very small decisions about her education at this stage. ("Do you want to do math first today, or Latin?") If she were a teenager, there would be room for more discussion and negotiation, but for now, I'm paying, I'm teaching...I'm deciding. :D

 

Yep, what he said. :iagree:

And now that I've got an 8th grader, it's still that way to some degree. They just don't have the maturity or the long range goals in mind when making these decisions. I'll decide what needs taught, narrow it down to 2 or 3 possiblities, then talk to him about it. Sometimes I just decide without much discussion. For example, HE really could not care less about ANY math or science, but it's still going to happen. Also, as he gets more into highschool, the cores may not be very open to negotiation, but he'll have electives to choose from that I plan will be very much if not entirely his decision.

[Mom to Aly]

I had bought two years of Saxon because people went on and on about it, and I figured I had the money, should go ahead. What a mistake! I hated it, and dd hated it, both with a passion! We had some other curricula that didn't really click, but Saxon was the worst. Part way through the 2nd year, I gave up and bought her a workbook at B&N for $7 bucks--she finished it in 2 weeks, no fighting, and she learned more in those 2 weeks than in 4 months with Saxon.

 

I posted here to see what people thought of math programs, and it was between Singapore & MUS (I was leaning towards Singapore because it was cheaper). We went to the HS Convention here, and dd recalled (I had totally forgotten) that 2 years ago we had gotten the sample dvd from MUS, and she had really wanted it. She begged me for it, and I plunked down the $90 bucks for the whole year, brand new, blocks and all, which, for us, represents 3 months of careful saving (we really have NO extra money).

 

For the first time since she was 6, no fighting! She loves math, and will do a week in a day! After we bought the MUS, I thought about it, while walking around, and sat her down at the convention. I realized, at least with her (she is gifted, very articulate, mature, etc.), she really knows what she likes, what she doesn't, and doesn't easily change her mind, I should involve her more. I ask her opinion about more than most people think I should in our lives, but, to me, it is just the two of us (I am a single mom), why shouldn't she have a say in some stuff when she is half the household? I think she should be happy to. So why haven't I been doing it in school?

 

Usually I would pick everything, show it to her, and she'd say, well, OK, and that was it. This time, anything I got, we discussed. We stayed all day, looked through everything carefully, she gave me her opinion on everything. For the next couple of months, we researched everything together. I've ended up getting literature based theme studies for history, which I was planning to do, but felt more sure of, because her fave thing is reading--and it has been a huge hit! The creative writing program she adores, HWT in cursive, instead of trying to improve her print has her wanting to write for the first time ever! Everything this year has been a hit, not any moaning and groaning, no probs, and we have been hsing since June! Usually, by now, we have hit snags and complaints--not this year, and her enthusiasm has groan, not diminished. I plan to involve my dd more and more each year, without a doubt!

 

Plus, if you do, you can always say, "Hey, you picked it!" ;).

 

As for the "lesser of two evils", I'd definitely do that--if he doesn't like one, go back to the other for a few days--he'll see the other isn't so bad!

 

And, for math, as soon as we can (I think the end of this math year) we are switching to the "Life of Fred". You should take a look--cheap, understandable, and fun!

[8filltheheart]

I don't really. I work with my kids on all their subjects during K-6. I know exactly what is in there and I assign what I feel is not only necessary, but appropriate. It is non-negotiable. I know their abilities and I know the assignments.

 

I do listen more for high school yrs. They are starting to direct their course selections toward future goals. I also listen to input about textbooks in 7th+ b/c they are starting to work more independently and I have picked the wrong textbooks content-wise before. For example.... My dd complained quite vocally about a certain author and his condescending tone toward views outside of young earth creationism. I didn't drop the textbook at that point. I sat down and worked with her through it for a few weeks. Once I was convinced that it was not a textbook I was comfortable with, we dropped it and switched to a different curriculum.

 

So, I would suggest picking which sources cover the content that you want covered that is appropriate for their skill level and stick with it.

[Carol in Cal.]

I think this is true if you're completely managing what and how they learn, but it hasn't proven at all true with my kids. They LOVE learning and doing and yes, the boys are even loving multiplication. But we wait until they are ready for the material and find they learn it really quickly. I also refuse to force "learning" on a child - it isn't worth the time and they don't retain the information. But so far, we haven't ground through anything and the kids are still loving learning.

 

I am really, honestly, sincerely happy for you. My DD is different. With her I do both--I wait until I think she is ready and/or it will do her more harm than good to wait any longer, and then I grind if necessary.

 

(This is for core skills stuff only)

 

So, for instance, I did not push early reading at all, but read to her a lot and wrote down stories that she dictated and did oral literature work with her and discussed movies and things like that. So she had a really language rich environment.

 

In unschooling theory, this would then motivate her to learn to read and she would do it quickly. But she didn't. I still waited, offering her the chance to learn to read in various ways--teaching her a few words, showing her how to sound out some things, 100 EZ lesson attempts from time to time, etc.. Since we were homeschooling, she didn't have the embarassment that she would have in a school setting, and she was still learning a ton. It was only when she started to decide that she was dumb because she did not know how to read that I decided that I had to push the issue. It was quite a struggle, but we ground through it and she became a fantastic reader. But, I felt that I couldn't wait any more and let her decide that about herself. It was not serving her well.

 

And, that has been consistent with most of the people that I know. For the most part, unschoolers that I know who consider themselves successful have kids who are utterly obsessed with something that motivates them to learn skills stuff, or who are very positive and open to suggestion, or are parents who just really don't care whether their kids ever learn to write well or do high school level math. I think that unschooling can work, and that it would have worked for me, but not for my DD, ever, unfortunately.

[jamnkats]

I am really, honestly, sincerely happy for you. My DD is different. With her I do both--I wait until I think she is ready and/or it will do her more harm than good to wait any longer, and then I grind if necessary.

 

(This is for core skills stuff only)

 

So, for instance, I did not push early reading at all, but read to her a lot and wrote down stories that she dictated and did oral literature work with her and discussed movies and things like that. So she had a really language rich environment.

 

In unschooling theory, this would then motivate her to learn to read and she would do it quickly. But she didn't. I still waited, offering her the chance to learn to read in various ways--teaching her a few words, showing her how to sound out some things, 100 EZ lesson attempts from time to time, etc.. Since we were homeschooling, she didn't have the embarassment that she would have in a school setting, and she was still learning a ton. It was only when she started to decide that she was dumb because she did not know how to read that I decided that I had to push the issue. It was quite a struggle, but we ground through it and she became a fantastic reader. But, I felt that I couldn't wait any more and let her decide that about herself. It was not serving her well.

 

And, that has been consistent with most of the people that I know. For the most part, unschoolers that I know who consider themselves successful have kids who are utterly obsessed with something that motivates them to learn skills stuff, or who are very positive and open to suggestion, or are parents who just really don't care whether their kids ever learn to write well or do high school level math. I think that unschooling can work, and that it would have worked for me, but not for my DD, ever, unfortunately.

 

I was mostly responding to your point that loving learning was a fallacy and in our family it is not. But we don't force academics and have found the kids have decent common sense and will challenge themselves to do more when we bring the topic up for discussion. But they've always been treated this way - we trust them to make good decisions and generally, they do.

[hsmamainva]

I would say that it depends on the child.

 

My oldest had no 'special requests' at all, save that she wanted a drawing curriculum. For everything else, she knew what subjects she needed as a senior, and she's happily completing what I found for her.

 

My second child has autism and it took some time to find something that works for him and at his level (he was struggling when I tried to put him in a 9th grade curriculum, so I've shelved some things for later and he's using a curriculum geared toward a 7th / 8th grade level.

 

My third child loves school and happily completes whatever I buy for him.

 

My youngest child also has autism and she likes familiarity. As long as her math book looks like last year's math book (she doesn't look at the name on the cover...but she does look to see that it's in color!) then she's happy.

[Sue G in PA]

Thanks for all the comments. With my ds...anything that requires too much effort receives a big thumbs down from him. He's academically lazy. Hates reading, hates writing, hated math until we switched from Saxon to MUS, just plain hates school. He's been hinting recently about going back to ps thanks to the "advertisements" from his best buddy. I keep trying to tell him that the grass isn't always greener and that one week in public middle school and he'd be begging to come home (although with this kid...I'm not quite sure he would). I simply wonder if I sent him back to ps if he really would do better. But, I don't like the influences so I won't even consider that idea. Anyway, as for me...I suppose I just have to figure out what MY goals are for him and for the others. We used GWG last year and I wanted something less focused on diagramming and parts of speech def's and more focused on real literature and copywork/dictation, etc. LLATL and ILL both have that. Perhaps I can do both...alternating days and seeing which he really hates more.

[dragons in the flower bed]

To what extent do you listen to your dc about their curriculum woes? He hated Saxon...so we switched to MUS. He like it for a while, but now that we've started back...he's complaining about that, too!

 

Yep, my DPS did this too. Now he's enrolled in p.s., and guess what? He hasn't even had his first day yet and he's already saying, "Nevermind! I'll homeschool this year!" (I'd love to take him back, but that saga is neither here nor there.) He taught me not to can a program just because the kid doesn't like it. That said, I always choose with the kids' personalities in mind; I don't just ignore who they are and what they like.

 

This summer, I thought I'd let the kids pick the topics of study. That worked well, for a week or two. Then they wanted to study something else, and just as the books arrived, something else. There was too much flitting about for me, so, while I still get them library books on whatever they're into, I choose what topics we study.

[Alyce]

if it looked like it wasn't a match. If they complained and I felt it wasn't the curriculum they just have to finish the work. If it had them doing school in the evening that was fine. They soon learned to want to do their work so they could play. When they reached middle school and high school I gave them a choice between a couple of programs for the most part. When they were in high school I did this but also let them choose their electives. That helped them to be more motivated to do school and so far this method has worked pretty well.

[swellmomma]

For most things I ask how they feel a particular book/curric is working for them and if they have complaints what specifically they are. IF they can articulate why a particular program isn't working and why a different one is better I consider switching. They know I have ultimate say in what they are doing but I do ask for their input, so far my son has said he likes everything we do, my dd hates it all only because she wishes there was no school work ever, but both have told me they like me asking them.

[Mrs. Readsalot]

I made all of the choices until highschool level. At highschool level I let him select his electives. Then we researched together the available curr and decided what to order. Also he works on electives in the afternoon and has control of which he does when. My only requirement is that he does 80 hours worth of work in each by the end of the year. This way if he wants to work on music for an entire afternoon because he is feeling inspired to do that he can. This is also helping him with his time management skills. He also tracks the hours and has me sign off on them at the end of the day. Trust me I do keep an eye and ear on what he is doing. We have a spiral notebook for each subject and we track accomplishments and hours in each notebook daily. Life skills his on of his favorite electives as it has a lot of diversity. His self designed life skills course includes, getting a car loan workbook, How to be a superSmart student(A Teaching Company DVD program) cooking and home repair skills, keeping a checkbook, reading Life on the Edge by Dr. Dobson, reading The Wealthy Barber, and other financial mgt books. His other electives include, music (theory and Guitar Lessons), Computers, Electronics and technology, and Drafting

[Paula in PA]

Though this was the first time for that and only for certain curriculums. I would show her the 2 top picks, discuss them, then get her input on how they looked to her. But I decided on those top 2 and had final say. Luckily, we agreed on all of them and everything is going very well, so far.

[RoughCollie]

I give my kids a choice between unit studies & research studies (over the years: Trisms, Sonlight, High School Biology in Your Home, FIAR), and textbooks. They always veer away from textbooks.

 

We have used Singapore and Saxon Math. I gave them a choice between Saxon Algebra and Life of Fred. They chose LOF.

 

When they *hate* a book, I switch to another one. They hated G.U.M., so I switched to Rod & Staff. They *absolutely hated* R & S, so I switched to A Beka Grammar & Composition. If they hate that, it is their problem, because I am not switching again.

 

I don't give them much choice in literature. I tried it once. I put 16 books out and had them each read the first few pages of each book and rate them on a scale of 1-5, with 5 being they couldn't wait to read the book. Only one book made a 5 -- the rest made 1s or 2s.

 

After that, I decided that since they have not been exposed to all the literature I have, that I make the decisions and they are stuck with what I decide unless they *absolutely hate* a book, which has happened with two of them.

 

My kids sometimes cannot differentiate between hating a book or curriculum and disliking the subject. They definitely do not like grammar or great literature, but they are stuck with it.

 

RC

[Pamela H in Texas]

If he's gonna complain about everything, I wouldn't give him any choice as it'll just make you miserable. Simply decide and go with it and he'll deal. Get his input at the end of the year as you make decisions for the following year.