How to choose a math program... now I rant

[Wind-in-my-hair]

I regret to say that I am not thinking clearly or rationally when it comes to choosing a math program. And I am afraid I blew a good chunk of my already dwindling budget on things that cannot be returned after being opened. I would love to return the C-rods along with Miquon, because Miquon demands too, too many manipulatives be gathered and sorted into some kind of Montessori lab in my home... I need something that can be stashed under the couch in a bin. As nice as the whole lab thing sounds, we have no space to accommodate such a lofty vision of our home math program. So Miquon has to go, no matter how nice it looks. I just wish I wasn't stuck with the C-rods and the Math Made Meaningful kit from Rainbow (I opened the cellophane-wrapped activity cards, my fault).

 

So what am I going to do with these C-rods? I don't really like the idea of them. Won't they become a crutch to my son? There really seems to be no mental math in Miquon. I am worried my son will develop a "color crutch" or fail to learn that not all models of the number 8 are brown. Also, my son can do basic arithmetic in his head. Is it necessary for me to have to approach equations by their "color names" instead of by numeral names?

 

I particularly don't like how multiplication is modeled with the C-rods, laying one rod over the other in an "X" shape. I feel like this program was designed for children who for some reason were unable to see things the standard way, and why treat a child of normal aptitude like a child with special needs?

 

I am beginning to get sick of math. I know I had access to C-rods when I was a little kid (my primary school took the "buckshot approach" to math and just used a little of everything. I remember seeing Singapore-type picture problems. I just counted to the answer by counting the pictures). 

 

It really goes against my principles to have a lot of math s*** accumulate. I think less is better when it comes to manipulatives. The manipulative should be put away when the concept is grasped. I should not be up to my neck in manipulatives all day every day. My son should get sensory experiences out of his everyday exploring, not a big pile of bricks that, for goodness sake, don't even snap together. What is he supposed to do with them? Pet them? Admire how cute they are? (I am being very, very sarcastic. I know exactly how their "play" is supposed to teach math concepts because I was up half the night reading the unreturnable cards I unwrapped from cellophane and Lore Rassmussen's annotations and notes to teacher).

 

I am so tired of every math program claiming how *special* it is and how important its special manipulatives are. I am so tired of it. I would send this all back and have my kid just spend another year counting and collecting pebbles and shells rather than interfere with his natural grasp of numbers by saying, "HEY, its time you learn math the wooden-color-rod way, forget the count-objects-and-group-them way" (the latter way was the way I had to teach myself math, because so many confusing programs were thrown at me during the grade school years that I never grasped basic concepts and never was able to manipulate numbers mentally, until I was older and became a cashier). 

 

But I can't return the lot of it, except the books, so I would be stuck with manipulatives that were the reason for returning the books and no longer have a useful purpose. I am not really interested in "playing math" with silly odd rods or rubber band boards. Math is about using your brain to solve problems, and it is my opinion that if this can't be done mostly mentally, no matter the age, then math is not really being learned. I do not trust the process of child-lead manipulative self-teaching. And my son will consider it mere busy work if I ask him to work on Miquon as a supplement to our... right now nothing program.

 

I am not interested in any more math curricula choices at the moment. I am so upset that my cluttered, cramped home is bleeding resources on lost causes in math (with in every other subject our experience with the materials and concepts have been A-OK). 

 

This is the second math program that I have rejected based on an intuitive reaction to its pedagogical format. Isn't there something in between the repetitive and slightly unappealing Math Mammoth workbook, and the confusing and demanding Miquon, which makes it the teacher's duty to get a whole sensory experience in order for the child's learning to proceed? Its daunting, and I am at a loss for how to move forward with formal math. Every program has its own "special" quirk that becomes my pet peeve about it. Every program claims to kick the pants of all the others out there. I do not see that in other subjects, such as grammar or spelling, which have their variations one program to another but do not claim to be the one most special and meaningful program your child will ever have the privilege of going through (unless I am mistaken, maybe there are some annoying l.a. companies out there). 

 

I am wondering if I should avoid the Montessori approach altogether? That seems to be one of the most "special-ness" approaches to math, as both RS and Miquon give me that sense when I read about their philosophies. They just seem... esoteric. I cannot stand it. Math shouldn't be something that isn't straightforward. 

 

You know, about a year ago I wanted to start Singapore, and I am kicking myself again and again (and again) for not starting DS in SPM US Ed. a year ago, when he was 5. He would have been ready for it.

 

 

[Sammish]

:grouphug:

I'm pretty happy with our math program (Math on the Level: "here's a couple of ways to teach this concept, do what works for you and your kid"), but I very briefly dabbled in c-rods last year. I had pretty much the same reaction you did. My son already had a really great intuitive number sense (he could do some mental arithmetic faster than I can, and understood negative numbers from playing card games), but I, too, was lured in by the great and wonderful claims made about the manipulatives approach. We spent a week dabbling with them, but it just felt like moving backwards. He could already do the math, why waste all this time learning this (arbitrary) system of colors? We petered out by the end of the week, the rods went back into the closet, and I haven't looked back. I just wanted you to know that you're not alone in feeling that way towards the rods!

 

On a practical note, can you return the books, sell the manipulatives "used" online, and use the money to buy the first level of Singapore (if that's what you think will really work for you)? Yeah, the program has to work for your child, but it also has to work for you, or he will definitely pick up on your dislike/frustration. Good luck! 

[Eagle]

Is this a JAWM (Just Agree With Me) post or are you asking for feedback?

[nature girl]

Haha, I'm kind of picturing you running screaming around the room, throwing c-rods and waving your hands in frustration. :lol:

 

I'm the wrong person to respond to this, because we do RS almost every day, and play around with Miquon every week or two, and love them both. I'm not sure how well they'll translate into higher level math, we're just at the beginning here, but you mentioned multiplication, and I know my DD understands the meaning of multiplication in a much more visceral way than I did when I was memorizing times tables in 3rd grade. For us the manipulatives work, even if I don't always see at the time exactly how they will. But the truth is I chose RS and Miquon mostly because they looked like they'd be fun for her, as un-MM like as possible, if you will. I knew from reviews that they'd probably give her a good foundation, but so do many other programs...I chose them because I wanted her to think of math as play, and I wanted to have fun teaching it. (If you ask Anna the thing she most loves to do each day, she's as likely to say math as any other real play we do.) Are they really more effective than other programs? No, I'd never say that, there are so many good programs out there. But I do believe they work.

 

But of course it's not everybody's cup of tea, and I definitely understand your frustration. I kind of threw up my hands myself when I first saw Annotations last year, it was all so different from anything I knew. SM sounds like it'll be a great choice for you, and I agree with PP that you should be able to sell your books and manipulatives pretty easily, especially since they've hardly been used.

[Julie of KY]

I've got to say I love Cuisenaire rods and use them to model math all the time. My kids "play" with Cuisenaire rods and learn all sorts of mathematical principles. Early on they learn to group numbers into 10's to easily make bigger numbers and not have to count individually, but count by tens. My kids have discovered lots of multiplication principles by playing. Look 4 fives make 20 and so do 5 fours!

 

I'm not sure what you mean by Miquon requires lots of manipulatives. I've used it for years with multiple kids and have never used anything buy Cuisenaire rods with Miquon. I have the Home Instructors guide and I don't see that it says to use anything else. If you have some other quide, it may be modeling how someone has used other manipulatives with Miquon, but most of us only use Cuisenaire rods. I don't have any "cards" that tell me what to do with the rods. Maybe I don't have the whole set, but when most of us talk about using Miquon we simply mean we are using the orange, red, blue, etc. books with the rods and nothing else. I don't have a guide that I follow that tells me what to do - I just teach math. I use the rods however it makes sense with my children.

 

I've never had any kids get caught up with linking a number to a specific color. We pull out our Cuisenaire rods to figure our problems in any math program. I'd rather my kids pull out the rods and lay out seven 8's and then use the ten rods plus a six to figure out that the total is 56. It becomes a very visual way to build math concepts and they certainly don't have to use the rods forever. I never do math by red plus yellow equals ...

 

You'll have to figure out what suits your teaching style as well as your son's learning. It is not too late to jump into Singapore if that is what you are leaning toward. (And I don't think Cuisenaire rods are a waste with whatever math program you use.) Good luck finding your groove in math.

[Wind-in-my-hair]

I am just blowing off steam, or, transforming a mistake into a lesson by publicly admitting the mistake. I am not ready for very detailed feedback: I would not know how to use it. But you are free to comment. I will not try to argue against anything good you might have to say for Miquon, or RS. Its really not about that. It is about why the heck every math seems to be radically different than the next, and how am I supposed to make a choice without standards?

 

I know that this is what I had coming: I didn't stick to my first program this year (math mammoth). I didn't stick to my gut about SPM a year ago (I didn't even buy it. back then I just thought 1A meant wait until you are caught up to first grade in all your other subjects). And I didn't stick to my budget just last week when I got hungry for a snazzy, hands-on program (miquon).  It really is my fault. This is really more about public penance. 

 

 

 

 

[kiana]

Can you re-sell them? Even if you don't make back what you spent, at least you might get *something* back, and get rid of them, and not have to look at them thinking about what a mistake it was.

[Slache]

Ray's is a strait forward program that's age appropriate for your kid, heavy on mental math, and free.

[Ellie]

have you actually done the Mathematics Made Meaningful task cards? Because they really are wonderful; they're what sold me 100% on C-rods.

 

Also, what other materials does Miquon require than C-rods? :confused1:

[Wind-in-my-hair]

The materials that come with the program and walk you through the lab sheets step-by-step, authored by Lore Rassmussen, imply the need for other materials in the classroom. In her Notes to the Teacher, there is an explicit list of things that, although not required all at the same time, should be gradually added to the math lab for the child to use whenever the mood strikes: things such as painted rulers, scales and various weights, geoboards, liquid measurement tools, sand and water and such, beans and buttons and such, card game kits and dominoes and beads... ordinary things for the most part, but the idea is having these things at ready access to the child at math lab time, according to the Montessori ideal of letting the child help himself or herself.

I've got to say I love Cuisenaire rods and use them to model math all the time. My kids "play" with Cuisenaire rods and learn all sorts of mathematical principles. Early on they learn to group numbers into 10's to easily make bigger numbers and not have to count individually, but count by tens. My kids have discovered lots of multiplication principles by playing. Look 4 fives make 20 and so do 5 fours!

I'm not sure what you mean by Miquon requires lots of manipulatives. I've used it for years with multiple kids and have never used anything buy Cuisenaire rods with Miquon. I have the Home Instructors guide and I don't see that it says to use anything else. If you have some other quide, it may be modeling how someone has used other manipulatives with Miquon, but most of us only use Cuisenaire rods. I don't have any "cards" that tell me what to do with the rods. Maybe I don't have the whole set, but when most of us talk about using Miquon we simply mean we are using the orange, red, blue, etc. books with the rods and nothing else. I don't have a guide that I follow that tells me what to do - I just teach math. I use the rods however it makes sense with my children.

I've never had any kids get caught up with linking a number to a specific color. We pull out our Cuisenaire rods to figure our problems in any math program. I'd rather my kids pull out the rods and lay out seven 8's and then use the ten rods plus a six to figure out that the total is 56. It becomes a very visual way to build math concepts and they certainly don't have to use the rods forever. I never do math by red plus yellow equals ...

You'll have to figure out what suits your teaching style as well as your son's learning. It is not too late to jump into Singapore if that is what you are leaning toward. (And I don't think Cuisenaire rods are a waste with whatever math program you use.) Good luck finding your groove in math.

 

[Ellie]

The materials that come with the program and walk you through the lab sheets step-by-step, authored by Lore Rassmussen, imply the need for other materials in the classroom. In her Notes to the Teacher, there is an explicit list of things that, although not required all at the same time, should be gradually added to the math lab for the child to use whenever the mood strikes: things such as painted rulers, scales and various weights, geoboards, liquid measurement tools, sand and water and such, beans and buttons and such, card game kits and dominoes and beads... ordinary things for the most part, but the idea is having these things at ready access to the child at math lab time, according to the Montessori ideal of letting the child help himself or herself.

 

Just because the author had all those things in her classroom does not mean that you need them.  :-)

[Hunter]

:grouphug:

 

I have WAY too much math stuff around here, and don't use any of it.

 

Later, not now, we can talk the specifics, maybe, of trying to streamline math. I don't think either of us is up to it today.

 

Here is another :grouphug:

[Julie of KY]

The materials that come with the program and walk you through the lab sheets step-by-step, authored by Lore Rassmussen, imply the need for other materials in the classroom. In her Notes to the Teacher, there is an explicit list of things that, although not required all at the same time, should be gradually added to the math lab for the child to use whenever the mood strikes: things such as painted rulers, scales and various weights, geoboards, liquid measurement tools, sand and water and such, beans and buttons and such, card game kits and dominoes and beads... ordinary things for the most part, but the idea is having these things at ready access to the child at math lab time, according to the Montessori ideal of letting the child help himself or herself.

All the other materials listed are not at all used in the Miquon workbooks. I think that manipulatives are great for leaning, but you don't have to go out of your way. Let you child play with measuring cups in a sink of water. Fill a pitcher with different cups. Play in a sandbox at the park. Use real rulers. Count toys cars, legos, etc. Homeschool can be very Montessori without planning anything. I love things like Geoboards and Pattern blocks for some of that more structured discovery learning.

 

As I said before, good luck finding YOUR groove in teaching math.

[Wind-in-my-hair]

have you actually done the Mathematics Made Meaningful task cards? Because they really are wonderful; they're what sold me 100% on C-rods.

 

Also, what other materials does Miquon require than C-rods? :confused1:

 

The cards are really nice quality, but I really don't think I should have paid that much for the whole kit. If I were teaching more than one child, it might have been of better value.

 

I am apprehensive about plunging into the use of C-rods. I think they are a math toy, not a math tool. Even the cards seem to suggest this. The cards are not Miquon, but seem to align somewhat with the Miquon approach. 

 

I see Miquon, and the C-rods in general, as an immersion program. 

 

Miquon suggests getting the whole standard fare of a good math lab. All the stuff you'd expect to find in a 1960s math class: painted rulers, wooden hundred board with hanging chips, chalkboard, number lines, scales, balances, thermometers, kitchen measuring cups, and sand, beans, water, and the like of that. Many are referred to in the Lab Annotation Sheets and the Notes to the Teacher, authored by the Miquon creator. 

[MomatHWTK]

LOL, we don't call those math lab supplies here. We call them toys and they are jumbled in with all the other stuff my kids have.  I'll admit I never did the geo boards with the kids and I don't think we have a balance scale yet- just a digital one for measure food servings. 

 

You can probably get some of your $ back on the manipulatives by reselling them. 

[alisoncooks]

I have bought and sold more math programs than I care to admit... I think that some of us just need to see and feel these programs to know if they will work for us.

[Wind-in-my-hair]

I am just so tired of these demagogues of my math universe. Every math demagogue has their own special way, and they'll show you if you are faithfully committed to their approach. It is so tiresome. I just cannot learn in that fashion. I am sick each time I look at a failed math thing. In fact I want to put the breaks on the entire homeschool, stop every single thing we were doing and every new thing we were planning to try-- send the orders back to Rainbow without having touched some of them-- until we get this thing figured out. I never thought it would be this painful to find a way for me to teach my child a single subject.

[shinyhappypeople]

Ray's is a strait forward program that's age appropriate for your kid, heavy on mental math, and free.

 

Yup, as I was reading your post, I immediately thought of Rays.  It's free online, so you don't have anything to lose.

[WahM]

It's pretty evident you do not like miquon, c-rods, and similar approaches and if you're not happy or confident teaching the math program it's not going to get done and/or be a miserable situation for everybody involved.

 

It seems like you would probably prefer a more traditional program. R&S or CLE might be a good fit and they are not to pricy either. Good luck!

[nature girl]

You might want to take a look at MEP too...It might not be quite as traditional as some of the programs mentioned, but it's easy to follow, its methods are much more straightforward and you'll easily be able to see where they're going with the lessons.

[Wind-in-my-hair]

I looked at Ray's and will be printing that out. It seems like a good resource for us at the moment. Counting, writing numerals, rapid-fire arithmetic talk... I think we could do ten minutes a day of this. 

 

Miquon looks good enough, I certainly do not hate it. It could be good enrichment. The C-rods are an interesting tool, its just that if the whole program depends on my child's liking of the c-rods, and what if he doesn't? I like things to be a little more foolproof than that, if I am to make an investment in it. 

[nature girl]

Since you already have them, could you let him play around with the c-rods for a couple of weeks? Let him build stairs (and tell him the associated numbers, he'll get it right away), make trains, even just build walls with them...some of the basic games from Education Unboxed. You don't need to stick with the program, or even use them as math tools, but they're fun just as a toy as well.

[Desert Strawberry]

It sounds like you do need to pull away from the Montessori model, at least for math. I agree that it's overly complicated and not suitable for a small space. 

I am just curious why you chose these programs in the first place. You sound a lot like me in approach to math. C-rods gave me the shakes when I played with them at playdates. I knew from my visceral reaction they could never ever ever live in my house. What did you see in these programs that you found appealing.

I know, for me, having fewer options when I started made choosing much easier. There are so many programs available now and every one is completely revolutionary and the only possible way to effectively teach math and completely world-changing. I don't envy the new comers who have to sift through all of that.

I knew I didn't want a lot of manipulatives, didn't want a dry, boring processed based, numbers-on-a-page approach. That pretty much left one program. Singapore, if you are curious. It was a good fit for us. We have used a few other tools for review, and now use life of Fred. We are very happy and we have a teeny budget and no clutter. 

I hope you can let this go, sell off the stuff, and buy a simple, easy program you like. You will find your groove. We all have to do this once or twice. For me it's writing. We all have that weak spot where we can't seem to get it together, but eventually, we do.

[Ellie]

The cards are really nice quality, but I really don't think I should have paid that much for the whole kit. If I were teaching more than one child, it might have been of better value.

 

I am apprehensive about plunging into the use of C-rods. I think they are a math toy, not a math tool. Even the cards seem to suggest this. The cards are not Miquon, but seem to align somewhat with the Miquon approach. 

 

I see Miquon, and the C-rods in general, as an immersion program. 

 

Miquon suggests getting the whole standard fare of a good math lab. All the stuff you'd expect to find in a 1960s math class: painted rulers, wooden hundred board with hanging chips, chalkboard, number lines, scales, balances, thermometers, kitchen measuring cups, and sand, beans, water, and the like of that. Many are referred to in the Lab Annotation Sheets and the Notes to the Teacher, authored by the Miquon creator. 

 

But have you actually worked through the task cards? :-)

 

Regardless of what Miquon "suggests," you only need the rods to complete the six books (two a year). 

[Wind-in-my-hair]

It sounds like you do need to pull away from the Montessori model, at least for math. I agree that it's overly complicated and not suitable for a small space. 

I am just curious why you chose these programs in the first place. You sound a lot like me in approach to math. C-rods gave me the shakes when I played with them at playdates. I knew from my visceral reaction they could never ever ever live in my house. What did you see in these programs that you found appealing.

I know, for me, having fewer options when I started made choosing much easier. There are so many programs available now and every one is completely revolutionary and the only possible way to effectively teach math and completely world-changing. I don't envy the new comers who have to sift through all of that.

I knew I didn't want a lot of manipulatives, didn't want a dry, boring processed based, numbers-on-a-page approach. That pretty much left one program. Singapore, if you are curious. It was a good fit for us. We have used a few other tools for review, and now use life of Fred. We are very happy and we have a teeny budget and no clutter. 

I hope you can let this go, sell off the stuff, and buy a simple, easy program you like. You will find your groove. We all have to do this once or twice. For me it's writing. We all have that weak spot where we can't seem to get it together, but eventually, we do.

 

I never really got to use C-rods at playdates. I have a couple friends I may sell them to. I may just have to play around with them some more before I do, cause I won't get full price and DS may still come to like them. I find them a little quaint though. They are beautiful to look at. I am not sure we will get as much math done with them as I want.

(Math link cubes can be used for the same purpose, plus more: you can turn them into pentominoes, and model in 3-D, and make any color you want be any value you decide). 

 

We need to measure our successes in terms of work accomplished. That is part of the reason I was drawn to the Classical model of education. I really like Charlotte Mason's approach in using great literature, short lessons, and nature-based play. CM seems to be a good middle-of-the-road approach (not radically unschool-ish, not radically nature-oriented like Waldorf, not too too focused on antiquated classics at the expense of living books, has a Christian component but its not the only driving force, it uses history and primary sources but does not follow a rigid, sequential reading schedule, etc.) but I do need to lean on a traditional test and assessment approach because my state will require a portfolio beginning in grade 2 and CCSS testing in grade 3 and beyond. TWTM offers good suggestions on creating this paper-trail that will be required. That is why I am part of this community!

 

You know, Right Start I am sure is a good program. TWTM has NEVER steered me in the wrong direction for any program, because I think they recommend material based on the needs I described above, plus some. My problem is with Rainbow Resources and my own appetite for what others are doing in their homeschools. I do not get to see these materials until they arrive at my doorstep. At that point, I am already out shipping, and if its in my home longer than a month, its a 10 percent restocking fee to return, plus my own shipping and package insurance to send the return. It can cost another 20 percent of the order's value to return the item to Rainbow through UPS ground. 

 

I think the reason I am adrift (in choosing a math program) is because I didn't get started until DS was already 5. I did not cultivate his early learning like I could have. I see some HSers are on grade 2 math with their kindergartner. They did Miquon at age 3 and 4... I guess I am groping for an ideal "starting place" for a child who was not formally schooled until halfway through his sixth year of life (age 5 1/2). 

 

It has been very stressful trying to develop a home school math program. It seems each time I buy a new piece for LA, it just makes the whole thing even better. There is synthesis in the variety of materials I use in LA. I have my groove there, I guess. 

 

But with math! I heard of the math wars but I never thought I would be caught in my own psychological war of fear and guilt and love and hate. I think I was a child of high potential in math but for some reason or other, that talent never developed. It wasn't until I was a cashier, and later took a community college online algebra 2 course, where I did long division without a calculator because I enjoyed it, that I realized that I really enjoyed math and might have actually excelled at it if I had been made aware of this fact earlier in life. Math can be extremely therapeutic. It gives you a break from thinking about good and evil, it lets you take the hardship and stress out of the equation and just look at it abstractly (like how much wasted money on a math program looks if I just focus on the numbers... its a relief because it is a solvable problem with a definite solution, whereas making a choice of curriculum involves ethics... and that weighs heavily and does not have a definite solution). It might be that ethics and math will intersect when my husband finally buys a math workbook from Walmart my budget becomes nil, because here I am, spending our money, and not getting anywhere in our math education! That is a sin.

[Ellie]

I never really got to use C-rods at playdates. I have a couple friends I may sell them to. I may just have to play around with them some more before I do, cause I won't get full price and DS may still come to like them. I find them a little quaint though. They are beautiful to look at. I am not sure we will get as much math done with them as I want. 

 

We need to measure our successes in terms of work accomplished. That is part of the reason I was drawn to the Classical model of education. I really like Charlotte Mason's approach in using great literature, short lessons, and nature-based play. CM seems to be a good middle-of-the-road approach (not radically unschool-ish, not radically nature-oriented like Waldorf, not too too focused on antiquated classics at the expense of living books, has a Christian component but its not the only driving force, it uses history and primary sources but does not follow a rigid, sequential reading schedule, etc.) but I do need to lean on a traditional test and assessment approach because my state will require a portfolio beginning in grade 2 and CCSS testing in grade 3 and beyond. TWTM offers good suggestions on creating this paper-trail that will be required. That is why I am part of this community!

 

You know, Right Start I am sure is a good program. TWTM has NEVER steered me in the wrong direction for any program, because I think they recommend material based on the needs I described above, plus some. My problem is with Rainbow Resources and my own appetite for what others are doing in their homeschools. I do not get to see these materials until they arrive at my doorstep. At that point, I am already out shipping, and if its in my home longer than a month, its a 10 percent restocking fee to return, plus my own shipping and package insurance to send the return. It can cost another 20 percent of the order's value to return the item to Rainbow through UPS ground. 

 

I think the reason I am adrift (in choosing a math program) is because I didn't get started until DS was already 5. I did not cultivate his early learning like I could have. I see some HSers are on grade 2 math with their kindergartner. They did Miquon at age 3 and 4... I guess I am groping for an ideal "starting place" for a child who was not formally schooled until halfway through his sixth year of life (age 5 1/2). 

 

It has been very stressful trying to develop a home school math program. It seems each time I buy a new piece for LA, it just makes the whole thing even better. There is synthesis in the variety of materials I use in LA. I have my groove there, I guess. 

 

But with math! I heard of the math wars but I never thought I would be caught in my own psychological war of fear and guilt and love and hate. I think I was a child of high potential in math but for some reason or other, that talent never developed. It wasn't until I was a cashier, and later took a community college online algebra 2 course, where I did long division without a calculator because I enjoyed it, that I realized that I really enjoyed math and might have actually excelled at it if I had been made aware of this fact earlier in life. Math can be extremely therapeutic. It gives you a break from thinking about good and evil, it lets you take the hardship and stress out of the equation and just look at it abstractly (like how much wasted money on a math program looks if I just focus on the numbers... its a relief because it is a solvable problem with a definite solution, whereas making a choice of curriculum involves ethics... and that weighs heavily and does not have a definite solution). It might be that ethics and math will intersect when my husband finally buys a math workbook from Walmart my budget becomes nil, because here I am, spending our money, and not getting anywhere in our math education! That is a sin.

 

That you didn't get started until your dc was "already" 5 is not a big deal. Really. I assure you that people who are doing 2nd grade math with 5yo children are extremely rare, and doing Miquon with 3 and 4yo children even more rare. The place to start with a 5yo is where he is, not compared to the children of a scant few over-achieving parents

 

As far as C-rods, not all children need them. Not all children need manipulatives at all (even though manipulatives can be helpful in explaining some concepts). If you have a 5yo child, there's no reason to be stressing over arithmetic. I promise you that there isn't anything you can do to mess him up for life. :-)

 

My dc and I are more visual and auditory, not kinesthetic, so for us, math instruction that heavily depended on manipulatives would have been h*ll on earth. :-p

 

In the 80s, I kept hearing people rave about c-rods. A friend lent me her rods for awhile and I messed around with them and was just.not.impressed. Some years later, I found myself in a position to be doing curriculum counseling and decided that I needed to educate myself, so I bought MMM. I sat down with the rods and did the very first task card, which says to dump the rods on a table in a pile, then separate them into piles according to color. Then you mess them up and separate them into piles according to shape. Wow--same piles! :-) Before long, I was totally sucked into c-rod paradise. :D I did not complete all the task cards, though. Enough is enough, lol. If you own Miquon and MMM, my advice would be to start MMM, use only the Teacher's Lab Notations for Miquon, and start the Orange book when your ds gets into the task cards past where they begin to assign numerical value to the rods.

 

Children who finish all six Miquon books are usually ready to go into Saxon's Math 54. They no longer depend on the rods. Some people like to add something for learning basic arithmetic facts, such as Calculadders or Quarter Mile Math.

[kiana]

I think the reason I am adrift (in choosing a math program) is because I didn't get started until DS was already 5. I did not cultivate his early learning like I could have. I see some HSers are on grade 2 math with their kindergartner. They did Miquon at age 3 and 4... I guess I am groping for an ideal "starting place" for a child who was not formally schooled until halfway through his sixth year of life (age 5 1/2).

 

Really, there is NOTHING wrong with not starting math until the kid is 5 or even later. Nothing nothing nothing. Just pick something that YOU can work with (and if you don't like manipulatives, feel free to not get a program that involves them!) and do it at the pace your kid is comfortable with. You are not behind.

 

If a kid is the type of kid who could have been doing grade 2 math in K, well, I would expect him to plow through K-1 math pretty rapidly, but you absolutely don't need to feel *behind* because you didn't start him at 3.

[Wind-in-my-hair]

And the biggest problem here is that, without the right program at the correct level, you really cannot even get started. Math Mammoth was just not what we needed: the program/ his level did not intersect precisely, and there was not alot of input on my end to help me teach (unless I went to YouTube, but I need something written out for me, like a schedule). Miquon seeks to solve this problem by allowing your child to skip around the curriculum. Both of these are child-paced, though Mammoth is sequential and Miquon is less structured. I need something that I pace because my stubborn son likes nothing more than to overcome stubborn obstacles placed before him. The only time we actually get along is if I confront him with challenges and requirements, even if we are not doing school. I cannot imagine allowing him to skip something because his gut tells him he is not developmentally ready to learn it. That, to me, doesn't make sense in any program, and it is what makes me think Miquon is kind of esoteric. I understand that, ultimately, the children reach the same goals at their own varying paces, though. And I admit that I would use Miquon if I felt my son would be one of those "leap ahead" children, and we could be doing third grade math by middle of grade 2 (I look at Miquon as a launch pad but not a real backbone for math). So, I don't know. Darnit don't I wish I had the answer. 

[Wind-in-my-hair]

I just don't want to hold him back in c-rod land, the land of color-math. I have a very bad sense of it. He knows math facts and can do mental arithmetic, so why pull him down to the level of puzzling little wooden figures whose value has not been identified? I just do not see the logic in the method. The cards make it more complicated, advising me to hold him back even longer before beginning actual number naming. I am not sure how this will ultimately benefit him. Esoteric. 

[Wind-in-my-hair]

And the MMM cards suggest "X"-ing the two rods being multiplied, to show they are being multiplied. I remember learning math this way, and still not having a clue when it came to memorizing the multiplication tables. I am not sure I can teach well with this method because, to me, it seems to remove the source of the knowledge from mental understanding, through an overly elaborate modelling process. I mean, maybe when I was in school, we didn't get enough of the c-rods to solidify the concept, so perhaps I am remembering the confusion they created without the reward of mastery. I am not saying I was well-taught with this method. Rather my primary school teachers dabbled in lots of traditional and non-traditional approaches. 

[Mandy in TN]

FWIW- Singapore uses rod diagrams. You don't need c-rods to do Singapore, but it uses rod diagrams drawn on the page. Also- Miquon definitely teaches the why behind the computation.

 

With little people, I am all about having a math bucket. I really don't see the issue here. Are you saying that you don't want your child to play with measuring cups and spoons? That you don't want to make rulers available? I think you need to look at all the manipulatives suggested for Singapore math.

 

HTH-

Mandy

[Ellie]

I just don't want to hold him back in c-rod land, the land of color-math. I have a very bad sense of it. He knows math facts and can do mental arithmetic, so why pull him down to the level of puzzling little wooden figures whose value has not been identified? I just do not see the logic in the method. The cards make it more complicated, advising me to hold him back even longer before beginning actual number naming. I am not sure how this will ultimately benefit him. Esoteric. 

 

He might not need rods. Not all children do. :-)

 

But I cannot tell if you have actually sat down with the cards and done them, one by one. Just looking through them won't tell you much. And the cards aren't advising you to do anything. Even if you decided to do them, it wouldn't prohibit him from doing other stuff on his own, completely separate and apart from the rods.

 

He's just 5. I think you're making this much harder than it needs to be, my friend. :grouphug:

[Tanikit]

I have never managed to make C-rods work for me or for my children - I only have them because my parents bought them when we were children and we never used them either - however they were not a waste of money I felt as a child - they built amazing towers and you could race cars under the towers and with very small children around they were always fun to bash down. My own children have played with them too, though have never successfully used them for Math - we do however use blacks that fit together and can be used just like C-rods when connected.

 

As far as Math manipulatives go - since Math is all around us, really one could use anything at all as a Math manipulative and actually one probably should use more than just a particular item bought at a shop since quantity does not always come in neat little packages and one should still know how to do the Math. I do feel that neglecting manipulatives entirely is a mistake - this should be almost impossible to do, but I have heard of children who can write 3 + 5 = 8 but when given 3 blocks and 5 blocks are unable to tell you how many they have - it is almost like learning to read entirely by sight words - they have just memorised how the numerals look and have no understanding or ability to move further without more memorisation.

 

 

[deerforest]

This site, created by a WTM mama, does a great job of showing how to use rods.

 

http://www.educationunboxed.com

[Wind-in-my-hair]

He might not need rods. Not all children do. :-)

 

But I cannot tell if you have actually sat down with the cards and done them, one by one. Just looking through them won't tell you much. And the cards aren't advising you to do anything. Even if you decided to do them, it wouldn't prohibit him from doing other stuff on his own, completely separate and apart from the rods.

 

He's just 5. I think you're making this much harder than it needs to be, my friend. :grouphug:

 

Well, he was 5 when we began formal learning. But he is now 6 1/2. We still so not have a math program that works. I am panic stricken with every floundering attempt. I am very dissatisfied with math altogether. I feel crummy about my own math education. I need products that dovetail with each other. It doesn't help that RS bashes traditional arithmetic as well as claims to be better than traditional Montessori, and that SM and BA people sing from the mountain tops of how superior their programs are to the traditional ones like Saxon, and the adherents of those program expressing how well-educated their children are as well. It is just really stressful to choose a math program. It can't be just because you like one more than the other. None of them work well when paired up. Its always expensive. And you have to start over from scratch with each switch. I could really use an expert, you know, an expert teacher who teaches gifted as well as average or struggling students, to evaluate my son and tell me what program I should be using. I do not trust myself, and I especially do not trust the demagogues of the math world.  

[Wind-in-my-hair]

This site, created by a WTM mama, does a great job of showing how to use rods.

 

http://www.educationunboxed.com

 

I believe my dearly priced and nonreturnable notecards are the same concept. Now I realize I could have gotten the same experience for free. Great. 

[Hunter]

When I get overwhelmed, I back WAY up.

 

1. People

2. The home

3. School as a whole

4. The subject that is putting me over the edge

 

1. First off I take care of ME. And I look at my relationship with my students, and their needs beyond academics. First off, students and instructors are people with many needs. Academics is only a small part of life, unless you choose for it to be more.

2. I do some cooking and shopping and fill the refrigerator with cooked food. And I de-clutter; not the school stuff, but anything else that brings some order into the home.

3. I look at the curriculum as a whole, and make sure I am not overemphasizing this one subject/topic at the expense of the whole. It's easy to overemphasize the subjects that are easy to measure and test, over those that are not easy to measure and test.

4. Only then when I've slept, and am fed, and have this ONE subject in CONTEXT of the entire curriculum, the entire home, and our entire lives, do I re-look at it, hopefully with fresh eyes.

 

As for a what a 5 year old NEEDS to be doing, they don't need to be doing much! Really. I had one late bloomer, and one early bird, and as adults the late bloomer has so eclipsed the early bird, that I am forever a believer in a relaxed start unless the child is ASKING for more. As a 4 year old I risked beatings trying to teach myself to read, I was that desperate to read. I just wish someone could have given me 15 minutes a day of instruction. So, if you son is HAPPY, they you don't need to be doing much at all, yet, never mind worrying about what you "should" have done.

 

I'm still not talking math with you, yet. I will, but first I think you need some time to back up. What are you making for dinner tonight and breakfast tomorrow? Have you hugged everyone and told them you love them? Do you have a read aloud book going?

 

:grouphug:

 

 

[Wind-in-my-hair]

This is seriously a battle that may result in sending DC to school. Even PS math class is better than another year (when he will be turning from 6 to 7) of no math instruction at all. My conscience will not let me use a program as odd-ball as Miquon. No offense to those who have learned to use it well. I just need to do our ten minutes a day and make sure we do it every day. Miquon, with its lax attitude about a child's work habits and use of time, is not going to get us on track. Not unless I approach it much differently than the creator of Miquon intended, or use it as a supplement. 

 

I would only use it if we could get through a book a semester, and follow another program that dovetails well with it, a program that makes sure we stay on track, and, (against the fundamental philosophy of Miquon and Montessori) tells us what to study when. 

 

I do not hate the program, I just cannot grasp why I have gotten myself so deep into rod-land. I did not realize what I was buying into I guess, until I opened the package .Ugh. All those cards are going to be so time-consuming to employ. And my CM approach doesn't give alot of time to one particular study session. And thats a good thing because I have a little one year old and we rarely get the luxury of ten minutes, let alone tons of math play time. I understand that to do these labs alone may not be as beneficial as getting peer and teacher feedback and support. 

[Hunter]

I believe my dearly priced and nonreturnable notecards are the same concept. Now I realize I could have gotten the same experience for free. Great. 

 

Money is not real. It used to be just paper, backed up by nothing, but now it's nothing more than blips in a computer. Money is temporary power to do things, but…it's just too ethereal to get worked up over.

 

I made a HUGE purchasing boo boo a couple months ago, but in the end it blessed someone else that needed that blessing, and because I was willing to let go, the universe made sure to give me what I needed. I found some money in a used free book I took from a donated book pile , and then I found some money of my own that I must have misplaced last year, and finally I won a $100 gift certificate to restaurant. I have found that as long as I pass my boo boos on, then the universe makes sure me and mine have what we need.

[silver]

I just don't want to hold him back in c-rod land, the land of color-math. I have a very bad sense of it. He knows math facts and can do mental arithmetic, so why pull him down to the level of puzzling little wooden figures whose value has not been identified? I just do not see the logic in the method. The cards make it more complicated, advising me to hold him back even longer before beginning actual number naming. I am not sure how this will ultimately benefit him. Esoteric. 

 

As people have mentioned, c-rods aren't for everybody. I think the kids that they work well for have strong spatial skills. During kindergarten, when my son used the c-rods the most, he would look at two different rods lined up next to each other (9 and 5, for example) and he could see that the gap between the rods was the length of four. For him, it was the lengths of the rods that he associated with numerical values, not the colors. I could have spray painted them all periwinkle and he would have still been able to use them.

 

My daughter, on the other hand, is very kinesthetic but not as spacially inclined. She doesn't like spatial logic puzzles as much as my son, for example. She can still use the rods, but I think it would take more time for her to be able to get the same advantage out of them as my son. Ten frames connect to her thinking more than c-rods.

 

And then some children don't want or need any manipulatives. I went to a Montessori school and I remember liking the looks of the manipulatives, but not actually using them to solve the math problems. 

[Hunter]

There is plenty of time and many ideas to try before resorting to PS JUST because of math. I promise!

 

I have all sorts of math to discuss with you, but not YET!  :001_smile:

[Mandy in TN]

First- calm down. It doesn't need to be this stressful.

 

My second son used Singapore and Saxon simultaneously. I felt like they worked together well. Singapore is more conceptual. It is a basal text with concepts lumped into chapters. Although Saxon does cover concepts, it really covers algorithms. Saxon is an incremental spiral that bounces from one topic to the next each day with the problem sets containing continual review. I felt that they meshed well.

 

My youngest used Miquon and then Singapore 1 and 2 before starting Saxon 54. I tend to think of Miquon and Singapore as both being conceptual. He used these alongside MUS alpha and then Kumon- both of which I tend to think of as being more concrete.

 

Whether the program is conceptual/ concrete, mastery/ basal/ spiral probably will not matter as far as manipulatives. Most early learning programs use manipulatives. One two three- these are words that represent numbers. 1 2 3- these are symbols that represent numbers. . .. ... - these are actual things for which those words and symbols stand. A child may be able to count from one to ten aloud, but not be able to count 6 beans. he lacks one to one correspondence. He may be able to count to one hundred and be unable to tell the difference between 12 and 21, or, when he gets to one hundred one, he writes 1001. He doesn't understand place value. He may be able to tell me that 2 + 2 = 4, but like a child who has memorized a song that doesn't mean he understands what he is saying. They are just words. There are developmental reasons why early math programs use manipulatives. It isn't a crutch. It is a stepping stone.

 

HTH-

Mandy

[Mandy in TN]

Oh- and yes- you are supposed to complete a Miquon book each semester. Additionally- feel free to spend way more than ten minutes on math.

[Wind-in-my-hair]

When I get overwhelmed, I back WAY up.

 

1. People

2. The home

3. School as a whole

4. The subject that is putting me over the edge

 

1. First off I take care of ME. And I look at my relationship with my students, and their needs beyond academics. First off, students and instructors are people with many needs. Academics is only a small part of life, unless you choose for it to be more.

2. I do some cooking and shopping and fill the refrigerator with cooked food. And I de-clutter; not the school stuff, but anything else that brings some order into the home.

3. I look at the curriculum as a whole, and make sure I am not overemphasizing this one subject/topic at the expense of the whole. It's easy to overemphasize the subjects that are easy to measure and test, over those that are not easy to measure and test.

4. Only then when I've slept, and am fed, and have this ONE subject in CONTEXT of the entire curriculum, the entire home, and our entire lives, do I re-look at it, hopefully with fresh eyes.

 

As for a what a 5 year old NEEDS to be doing, they don't need to be doing much! Really. I had one late bloomer, and one early bird, and as adults the late bloomer has so eclipsed the early bird, that I am forever a believer in a relaxed start unless the child is ASKING for more. As a 4 year old I risked beatings trying to teach myself to read, I was that desperate to read. I just wish someone could have given me 15 minutes a day of instruction. So, if you son is HAPPY, they you don't need to be doing much at all, yet, never mind worrying about what you "should" have done.

 

I'm still not talking math with you, yet. I will, but first I think you need some time to back up. What are you making for dinner tonight and breakfast tomorrow? Have you hugged everyone and told them you love them? Do you have a read aloud book going?

 

:grouphug:

 

I am suffering financially. I cannot get things in order at home. I am involved in a lawsuit that takes up alot of my attention. I am the plaintiff in a medical malpractice case from two years ago. I no longer cook even though I loved to. I am always tired and my diet is poor. 

 

My son acts aggressive. He pretends he is a ninja. He always wants me to take him to the park, and I am usually too tired. 

 

My baby is beginning to walk. That's a new challenge. But he is mellow and overall he is good. 

 

Dad doesn't do much at bedtime or to alleviate the stress of dealing directly with the kids. 

 

I am not inspired to homeschool anymore. I want to give up. All the beauty I saw in it, all the potential, is getting swallowed up by my own sense of failure. I really hate wasting money. But worse I hate using something that just isn't intuitive for me and my child. 

 

I want to homeschool in my own way, and not follow a strict protocol. But whenever I try I fail. Sticking to WTM or Ambleside Online seems to be the only way to get it right. Yet, with math, I cannot comprehend what to do to get my son where he needs to be, or to fit it in to a CM-inspired routine. 

 

Every time I read something, it seems to contradict what I already learned. This is maddening, and I see no "middle" path to follow. 

 

We don't have a lot of money, so my failures are more than just delaying our homeschool life from moving forward.

 

BTW I begged DH to help me decide on a math curricula and he refused to even read the "about" pages on the RS and SPM websites. And in trying to avoid spending the big bucks on a solid, tested program like RS, MiF, or Saxon, I end up racking up a higher bill total with a bunch of little non-essentials, like unit study kits and pattern blocks. If my DH had been able to sit down with me, we might have chosen something or at least put priority tags and time limits on purchases. But he blocked me out. I really hate having to shop for curricula with out his input, even though it is his money. And he says we cannot afford private school, even though he'd prefer to send our DS than to HS him. I am different: I am an idealist about HSing. I want to get a custom fit for our family and our child. So of course he expects me to be efficient, while I want something perfect for us, and yet we don't sit down and talk about it. He refuses to even read one single review. He says he hates math, hated school, and only as an adult in college does he feel confident about his schooling. He said his educators failed him, and he is not qualified to make any evaluation of any type of educational program. 

 

I am so distracted that I know I miss dozens of opportunities to teach my child a life lesson, or just sit and read with my child. I want an approach to schooling that is non-stressful! That is the number one most important thing! And we have to love our studies and be challenged by them! They have to be interactive and verbally engaging. I need verbalization and affirmation that he gets it, and Miquon discourages this. RS does not. SPM, I have no idea. It is all just so dogmatic, it makes my stomach turn. It doesn't even matter about the scope and sequence, the content. Each program is highly dogmatic, I am discovering, and that is what I hate.

[Hunter]

I'm not telling you to calm down! I do these rants all the time, just not usually online, because I'm very sensitive about receiving advice.

 

But offline, I do my  :willy_nilly: and  :banghead:  and  :cursing: .

 

Are you okay? Are we coming on too strong with advice? I tried to more tell MY story, rather than give advice, but still…I just want to first and foremost BE here WITH you, rather than try to "fix" you.

[MomatHWTK]

Free:

http://everydaymath.uchicago.edu/parents/1st-grade/em-at-home/unit_2/

 

http://www.glencoe.com/sites/georgia/student/mathematics/assets/math_review.html

 

http://www.mhschool.com/math/mathtriumphs/index.html

 

 

ETA:  I started with MUS and supplemented with MM, games, worksheets, etc.  I didn't like MUS but my oldest two were ok using it.  I don't care for DVD based programs and prefer to stream lessons via the internet.  For a semester I used the student textbook that the local ps used and bought each child a workbook.  I wasn't very consistent with getting the lessons done.  I just don't like teaching math. So now I use Splash Math and Starfall.com for 1 student, CTC Math for 1, Teaching Textbooks for 1, and Tablet Class Math for another.  I still supplement with DVDs, online resources and other printed materials.  I have two who excel, one who hates math and 1 whose abilities vacillate from day to day.

 

Early grades, kids are learning to recognize that numbers represent a quantity of something. Go backward and forward with those numbers and combine sets of numbers and split them apart. 

 

Various programs claim to lay the groundwork for better understanding and some probably do- but at the end of the day, it's counting, adding and subtracting. 

 

[Hunter]

I am suffering financially. I cannot get things in order at home. I am involved in a lawsuit that takes up alot of my attention. I am the plaintiff in a medical malpractice case from two years ago. I no longer cook even though I loved to. I am always tired and my diet is poor. 

 

My son acts aggressive. He pretends he is a ninja. He always wants me to take him to the park, and I am usually too tired. 

 

My baby is beginning to walk. That's a new challenge. But he is mellow and overall he is good. 

 

Dad doesn't do much at bedtime or to alleviate the stress of dealing directly with the kids. 

 

I am not inspired to homeschool anymore. I want to give up. All the beauty I saw in it, all the potential, is getting swallowed up by my own sense of failure. I really hate wasting money. But worse I hate using something that just isn't intuitive for me and my child. 

 

I want to homeschool in my own way, and not follow a strict protocol. But whenever I try I fail. Sticking to WTM or Ambleside Online seems to be the only way to get it right. Yet, with math, I cannot comprehend what to do to get my son where he needs to be, or to fit it in to a CM-inspired routine. 

 

Every time I read something, it seems to contradict what I already learned. This is maddening, and I see no "middle" path to follow. 

 

We don't have a lot of money, so my failures are more than just delaying our homeschool life from moving forward.

 

BTW I begged DH to help me decide on a math curricula and he refused to even read the "about" pages on the RS and SPM websites. And in trying to avoid spending the big bucks on a solid, tested program like RS, MiF, or Saxon, I end up racking up a higher bill total with a bunch of little non-essentials, like unit study kits and pattern blocks. If my DH had been able to sit down with me, we might have chosen something or at least put priority tags and time limits on purchases. But he blocked me out. I really hate having to shop for curricula with out his input, even though it is his money. And he says we cannot afford private school, even though he'd prefer to send our DS than to HS him. I am different: I am an idealist about HSing. I want to get a custom fit for our family and our child. So of course he expects me to be efficient, while I want something perfect for us, and yet we don't sit down and talk about it. He refuses to even read one single review. He says he hates math, hated school, and only as an adult in college does he feel confident about his schooling. He said his educators failed him, and he is not qualified to make any evaluation of any type of educational program. 

 

I am so distracted that I know I miss dozens of opportunities to teach my child a life lesson, or just sit and read with my child. I want an approach to schooling that is non-stressful! That is the number one most important thing! And we have to love our studies and be challenged by them! They have to be interactive and verbally engaging. I need verbalization and affirmation that he gets it, and Miquon discourages this. RS does not. SPM, I have no idea. It is all just so dogmatic, it makes my stomach turn. It doesn't even matter about the scope and sequence, the content. Each program is highly dogmatic, I am discovering, and that is what I hate.

 

I've got to get offline, but will get back to you. :grouphug:

 

I know things feel very dark right now. I've had dark times and have had to school through them. I understand not being able to cook. But, eat as best you can, without making food yet another stressor. Eating triggers our reptilian brain to feel safer, and when we feel safer, our thinking becomes wider and less black and white.

 

I wish I could be there physically with you right now, and take you little ninja to the park for you. You have a LOT on your plate right now!

[vaquitita]

Nm

Edited December 12, 2015 by vaquitita

[WahM]

Hope things begin to calm down soon for you. It might seem like it never ends, but it will calm down.

 

As far as math you do not need miquon, right start, Singapore to ensure your ds has a solid math foundation. The best math program is going to be one you enjoy teaching and makes sense to you! Also, keep in mind no math curriculum is going to be "perfect" nothing is perfect. If you fall in love with one then use that it's always easier to adjust it to your individual kid than dredging through a program You hate. CLE is a strong math program loved by many! In the early grades (not sure about later) it has you introduce the concept with manipulatives, whatever you have around the house then has your child work on them without because they got plenty of practice during the teacher led lesson. It works for my wiggly child because it works on one thing just long enough that my child does not get bored/distracted and it switches to another concept. The samples online don't do it justice. If you think that is something you would like you can try selling whatever you're not going to use and buy one teachers manual and a couple light units to try it out. It would be inexpensive that way.

[Mandy in TN]

Sounds like a lot more than choosing a math book.

 

1. Little boys engage in imaginative play. That is normal and good. Let go of what you envisioned, and embrace your reality.

 

2. Your dh will not be using or teaching this math, so it is fine that he has no opinion. If this is something you want to do, own it. I have homeschooled for many years and used many maths. I bet my dh can't name a single one.

 

3. If you are overwhelmed and want to put your child in school, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that choice.

 

(((Hugs)))

Mandy