Looking back - do you feel early Latin classes/prep were really worthwile?

[3andme]

There are so many elementary Latin programs out there. I have tried a few of them but find it difficult to schedule them  in consistently. For those who've had students take Latin through High school. Were elementary and middle school programs really valuable to later study or do they just ease the initial transition to the 1st year of High School Latin?

 

On Lukeion's website, they suggest that it's actually preferable to wait on Latin until a child is 12 or so.  "It is not only 'ok' to learn Latin after logic and maturity kicks in (usually age 12-15, the time varies for each child) but it is actually preferable."  

 

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

My DS started Latin at age 6 because he wanted to. We sorta kept up with Latin all those years, until he started with Lukeion. He was ready for Latin 2, but I got him in Latin 1B mainly for the vocabulary (All Latin books offer varying vocabulary lists). 

I honestly do not think he has any advantage to show for his many years of Latin as a child. I would do one year of Latin before starting Latin 1 with Lukeion, just because it's a huge learning curve the very first time around.  So a bit of previous exposure (and not just roots, but mainly grammar) is helpful. Not years and years.

[Erica in OR]

Not worth it to me. Our oldest did Prima Latina starting in 3rd grade, as suggested by TWTM. We then did LC1, LC2, and Henle in dribs and drabs in 4th through 8th, then she's still going to do two years of it in high school. It feels like forever to both of us, I think. I'd feel better just starting with a more advanced program and setting a schedule to keep at it regularly, rather than the early exposure spread out for so long. We're adjusting for our 3rd child—not starting so early.

 

Erica in OR

[Gwen in VA]

My older two started in 7th grade. One successfuly made it through AP Latin and one eventually switched over to Greek..

 

My younger two started Latin in 3rd -- 4th and grew to really hate it (and all other foreign languages) before they even started high school. They were so sick and tired of Latin by the time high school rolled around that they both dropped it ASAP -- right after Latin III. (We are not a "language" family so I don't expect that any of them, regardless of approach, would have loved foreign language study, but starting Latin earlier was disastrous in terms of fostering a love of the language.)

 

I would wait until 7th grade rather than starting earlier. Oh, the wonders of hindsight!

[chiguirre]

There are so many elementary Latin programs out there. I have tried a few of them but find it difficult to schedule them  in consistently. For those who've had students take Latin through High school. Were elementary and middle school programs really valuable to later study or do they just ease the initial transition to the 1st year of High School Latin?

 

On Lukeion's website, they suggest that it's actually preferable to wait on Latin until a child is 12 or so.  "It is not only 'ok' to learn Latin after logic and maturity kicks in (usually age 12-15, the time varies for each child) but it is actually preferable."  [/size]

The main advantage to starting Latin early is being able to finish it early and leave space in your high school schedule for more electives or another language. If you've done First Form Latin in 5th or 6th grade, you'll have a jump on high school Latin and be able to take it in middle school. You'll be able to finish up a 4 year sequence and (hopefully) get a good score on the SAT II or AP exam and be done with your required foreign language by the end of your sophomore or junior year.

[Artichoke]

As the mom of three graduates and one remaining, I'll add to the vote of waiting until sixth or seventh grade to start with Latin. We personally did not see an advantage of early Latin.

[teamturner]

We started Latin in 2nd/3rd grade with my 3 oldest and began to see burn out in the youngest by 6th grade.  I forced her to do one more year this year, but I'm letting her stop after  this year.  My older ones will keep plugging away at it, but I feel like we've been doing it too long and probably would have benefited from starting it later.  Also, we wasted 3 years with a curriculum that didn't give us mastery that we are now getting with the curriculum we've been using the last 2 years.  That's part of it too.

 

I'm going to wait until 4th or 5th grade with my youngest and go right to the curriculum that works for us.

 

 

[mjbucks1]

I would do one year of Latin before starting Latin 1 with Lukeion, just because it's a huge learning curve the very first time around.

 

 

 

The main advantage to starting Latin early is being able to finish it early and leave space in your high school schedule for more electives or another language.

 

 

 I think these two statements kind of go hand in hand.  My oldest completed 3 years of Latin before starting high school Latin in 7th grade.  He completed AP Latin this year (10th grade).  With my oldest we did the first year of high school Latin at home, however my dd completed Lukeion Latin I this year (14, 7th grade).  I think she would have drowned in all the work if she had not had Latin for Children A & B prior to taking Latin I at Lukeion.  I wanted her to start high school Latin early to get her language requirement out of the way like her older brother.   I do wonder if she were older if the previous Latin exposure would have mattered, but I do think it is very helpful to have many of the grammar pardigms already memorized.  While my ds used Latina Christiana before high school Latin, I switched to Latin for Children for my dd because that program closely follows Wheelock's.  It was very helpful that my dd also had many of the voabulary words memorized, as well as all 4 principal parts of the verbs and gender of the nouns.  Dd and I did Latin at least 4 days/week for 1/2 hour to 45 minutes/day for 2 years before starting Lukeion Latin I.  Dd always enjoyed LFC, especially the fun activity books.  I think 5th grade is early enough if you want to start high school Latin in middle school.  If not you can wait unil 6th or 7th grade.  

[G5052]

Because of family circumstances, we didn't start Latin until 7th.  I had to outsource eventually, but we got to the AP level with my firstborn this year.  My second one isn't as motivated, but will do fine with four years of high school Latin.

 

In the school system where I grew up, they didn't start formal, grammar-based language studies until 7th.  And they offered AP language studies in three languages every year, with the majority of the students getting 4's and 5's.

 

So being late isn't bad at all.  Having a solid grammar background and reading skills is a must, so it doesn't hurt to focus on that earlier on.

[PeterPan]

We started latin young (age 6? I forget) and dumped a few years later when the processing of all the stuff was bogging her down.  I don't regret dumping, but I don't regret starting early either.  It was fun for her at the time, and the concepts she learned then have made the grammar in spanish easy for her.  

 

I say as long as you're having fun, do what you want.

[Brenda in MA]

Not worth it to me. Our oldest did Prima Latina starting in 3rd grade, as suggested by TWTM. We then did LC1, LC2, and Henle in dribs and drabs in 4th through 8th, then she's still going to do two years of it in high school. It feels like forever to both of us, I think. I'd feel better just starting with a more advanced program and setting a schedule to keep at it regularly, rather than the early exposure spread out for so long. We're adjusting for our 3rd child—not starting so early.

 

Erica in OR

We basically did this plan as well -- started with PL, then did LC 1 & 2, and then on to Henle. My son finished Henle 2 by the end of 9th grade, then did Lukeion Latin 3 & 4 in 10th & 11th. I thought that spreading out the acquisition of Latin grammar over the early years was very beneficial because the grammar and endings became more second nature this way. I would do it again this same way.

 

Brenda

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

I think most early Latin programs are basically vocabulary building exercises and an introduction to grammar.

 

My oldest feels that our early Latin programs have helped with vocabulary but gave a false sense of security when it came to beginning a serious high school level study of Latin. 

 

It is hard to stack Latin programs against each other. I would be hesitant to say that a year of Latin meant for an elementary student is the same as Latin I at the high school level. 

 

I think it really depends on the child.  Some kids have a mindset and are eager to learn languages and others just aren't mature enough until middle or high school.  Pushing a language early when they aren't ready isn't necessarily an advantage nor does waiting produce a disadvantage.  I'm not sure there is a global answer to early foreign language study.  The exception to early study being- to have exposure to native speakers or fluent speakers and to be consistently using multiple languages in daily life.  That is another issue entirely.

[Nan in Mass]

We began Latin early and I am glad we did. We wasted a year with Latin primer, which was not going to work for my particular family, then switched to a more reading based approach. Mine each had a year or two of Latin on their high school transcripts before we quit. We homeschooled very loosely, so Latin and math were our only formal textbooks. Mine learned how to learn a language, how languages work, how to spell English, how to write more than a few words at a time, how to memorize, how to stick at it even when you don't understand, how to use a textbook, that people are people with many of the same problems in all times and places, some history, study skills, copy skills, and a few other things I can,t think of at the moment. None of them could read Latin now, in their twenties, but it was very much worth it for us because it wa a super efficient way of covering a lot of things that schools normally cover via something that seems like to children. We did something real instead. And the foundation is there if they ever want to take it up again. It also kept me from being bored while covering those basic academic skills. Very important, that last bit lol.

 

Totally no regrets here. I regret that I wasn't a better teacher. We should have gotten farther. But it was very far from a waste of time for my particular family.

 

Nan

[basketcase]

Interesting question, OP. Personally, we're going for a living language first, because there are decided advantages to learning them young, then we'll add Latin later if we want to.

 

Research shows that learning a difficult language early on life (one with cases like Russian or a tonal language like Mandarin) changes the way you use your brain. I believe that they used more of their brains than people who only learn easier languages young. And any language learned very young will get its own area of the brain, in the same way as your native language. This isn't true for languages learned in adolescence. Since Latin isn't a spoken language, the changes might not be exactly the same, but I wouldn't discount entirely the benefits to developing brains.

[EKS]

I did Lively Latin with my younger son in 2nd and 3rd grades.  He loved it.  It helped cement grammar concepts (he was also using MCT at the time) but, long term, that was about it.  We did half of the first Cambridge book in 4th grade and then dropped it because he was going to be going to a b&m school in the next fall.

 

My older son did Getting Started with Latin in 6th, Latin Prep in 7th, and Cambridge 1 in 8th.  He then did Cambridge 1 and 2 with Oak Meadow for his "official" foreign language credits.  I think the exposure to Latin prior to starting with OM was critical to his success, especially given that Cambridge doesn't explain the grammar much. 

[flyingiguana]

We did Minimus.  It was kind of fun, but I saw no retention of anything when we got round to doing Latin in 6th grade or so.  Grammar, vocab, insights into English -- it was all gone.

 

I can see strong reasons for starting a language that involves speaking early on, but the way Latin is used and taught, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to start early.  If you view Latin as just a fun thing to play around with, it's probably not BAD to start young, but it probably isn't going to make a serious study later on any easier.  The thing is, you can spend years learning stuff with little kids that an older kid will pick up in a week.

 

This was helpful for us: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=if4XZVFTK5A

But then he stopped using the Cambridge Latin books (understandable copyright issues).  He's got a bunch of his own videos up now that I haven't tried yet.

[Kareni]

We began homeschooling in 7th grade, and my daughter took Latin in out of the home classes starting in 8th grade.  She took five years of Latin through AP Latin and one year of Post-AP studies.  She went on to major in Latin in college.  She loved it. 

 

I can't answer your question in regards to Latin; however, my daughter attended a public school for kindergarten through fifth grade that prided itself on exposing children to Spanish.  She also took some Spanish in 6th grade.  When she began homeschooling in 7th grade, I signed her up for the second part of Spanish 1.  (This was an outside the home two year Spanish 1 class.)   She initially floundered but ultimately did exceedingly well.  I think that not much of her earlier Spanish had stuck with her.

 

Regards,

Kareni

[Kathy in Richmond]

My kids both started Latin when we began homeschooling: age 12 for my son & age 8 for my daughter. Both took Latin through the end of high school. I'd say that they ended up at equal ability levels, in spite of dd's head start. Her early years were fun for both of us, and dd got a head start on her vocabulary and grammar forms. But guess what? Both reached AP level, and both were able to read Latin literature at the end of high school. The early starter liked it better, and continued throughout college. In fact, (after 14 years of Latin study!) she'll graduate next week with a degree in Classics/Latin. :)

[Nan in Mass]

The principal of our elementary school and I discussed early language classes once. He said he had noticed that the Sriudents who started a language in elementary school were more able to use what language they knew easily,but that they did not necessarily know more than the students who started the language in middle school. He was not talking about immersion language learning, just lessons in school. I don,t know but it seems to me that this would be true for Latin as well, provided plenty of reading was included. This would give a false sense of accomplishment, but I think you could counteract that by reminding the student that they are reading the equivalent of Dick and Jane books, for the same reasons. It seems like this might be one of those things that depends on your goals?

 

Nan