I'm raising a kleptomaniac!

[Sue G in PA]

I'm setting myself up for major criticism, I know. I've over-posted on discipline issues and I sincerely appreciate all the great tidbits of advice. I now have a file for just those respones. You all know parenting is not my forte. If that isn't clear by now...it will be crystal clear after this post. Well, it seems my ds7 has NOT learned his lesson about stealing. Last time he took candy from our grocery store. We took him back there to return it and apologize. He was totally freaked out by that. Never though we'd have another issue. Well, we're out at Office Depot today to get the "deals" that end today (they were out of all that I wanted anyway! :glare:) but i did get a few things. While in line, my kids are all right there with me, behaving quite nicely. Ds7 is looking at the candy and I catch his eye and tell him to come to me. I don't trust him just yet. So, we leave the store and he has his arms crossed over his chest. Weird, so I ask him to show me his hands. He does and there is nothing there. I ask him if there is anything in his shirt or pockets...he says no. So, off we go. Well, on the way back home, dd11 overhears ds7 and ds5 talking about this "candy" that they can share. Turns out...ds7, my little kleptomaniac, DID take a pack of gum! I was dumbfounded! I lost it. I took the gum, took his Star Wars action figures, told him he couldn't participate in the Bike Rally for Ranger Kids at church tonight and that he would have to go to jail now. He flips out. Starts crying, begging for another chance, promises to never do it again, etc, etc, etc. Okay, so I didn't handle it well. Picture this: mom is tired, has a headache, just finds out dh won't be home until late, baby is screaming, toddler is whining, etc. So, I tell dh and he decided to set up an appt. at our local police station for ds7 to really "go to jail". Basically it's a tour of the facility, the cells and a big-time lecture on why we don't steal! The police officer did tell dh that they can't charge him until he is 8yo! Like we wanted to press charges against our 7yo! We just want to scare him straight! Okay, rant over. I'm a horrible parent.

[lighthouseacademy]

My opinion is that kids continue to test what they have "learned" before. I think that the jail tour might be good- but I would definitely go back to Staples and require the boy to confess and pay for the gum out of his own money to the manager. Call ahead if you need to and give the manager a heads up.

[mommaduck]

It's not you, Sue. You're child is being a child...each test the limits in certain ways and this happens to be his. I agree with the pp.

[tibbyl]

During a time of emotional turmoil in the family, a friend's son engaged in some petty thievery at retail stores when he was around your son's age. FWIW, here is how she handled it. She made him return the stolen goods to retailer. First, she appealed to his conscience by explaining how hurtful it would be for him to be victim of thievery. He was not allowed outside his home or yard for awhile. When she did start taking him out and about again, she insisted EVERY TIME that he empty his pockets (and sometimes shoes) just prior to leaving. He had to do this at stores, museums, homes of friends and acquaintances, virtually anywhere that he could lift anything. I will check with her to ask how long she kept this up. She did state that to her knowledge, he has not stolen again since then.

 

Something about the "scaring straight" tactic makes me nervous deep down. Maybe it is because it relies upon fear of punishment instead of guiding child toward behaving ethically because it feels like the right thing to do.

 

Good luck.

[Alenee]

:grouphug: When it rains it pours. I'm sorry you're going through this but I think the police station visit is a great idea :thumbup1: and going back to the mgr. at Staples.

[wide eyes & laughter]

Call ahead if you need to and give the manager a heads up.

 

:iagree: Yes, Iwouldn't want the kind of manager who says, "It's OK.... Thank you for telling me." Or some such pat answer :rolleyes: How 'bout a grave look and a serious, thoughtful answer?? Great if a manager is willing to work w/you.

 

 

One thing we've told our dc before is Learn to govern yourselves or others, sooner or later, will do it for you. Self-control is so much better than external forces! Maybe the jail idea is worthwhile but ultimately we want our dc to internalize character, learn to govern themselves... submitting themselves to the authority of God, who sees all and acts justly. (And loves us through it all.)

[lighthouseacademy]

One thing we've told our dc before is Learn to govern yourselves or others, sooner or later, will do it for you. Self-control is so much better than external forces! Maybe the jail idea is worthwhile but ultimately we want our dc to internalize character, learn to govern themselves... submitting themselves to the authority of God, who sees all and acts justly. (And loves us through it all.)

 

I completely agree that self-control is ideal. And I also agree with the previous poster that jail makes me a little nervous for the fear of punishment rather than doing the right thing. BUT because Sue said that her son would go to jail, she must follow through- and take him to the jail. But, I don't think that that is enough because it isn't teaching the restitution and doing the right thing part.

[Joanne]

Well, it seems my ds7 has NOT learned his lesson about stealing. Last time he took candy from our grocery store. We took him back there to return it and apologize. He was totally freaked out by that. Never though we'd have another issue.

 

 

I don't trust him just yet.

 

Turns out...ds7, my little kleptomaniac, DID take a pack of gum! I

 

Would it help to know that stealing is a common developmental stage? A 7, it's still wel within normal/expected range and not a sign of severe dysfunction? That is not to say all, or even most, 7 year olds behave this particular age expected way but that when they do, it's not a "sign" of something big or life determining.

 

7 year olds can't grasp the "whole" of stealing from a store (or parents or siblings). They don't get profit/loss, loss prevention, ownership, that "scale" doesn't matter (it's only a pack of gum). Combine that with 7 year old impulse control and you have a 7 year old sharing his candy with others (the irony is kinda funny :lol:)

 

 

I lost it. I took the gum, took his Star Wars action figures, told him he couldn't participate in the Bike Rally for Ranger Kids at church tonight and that he would have to go to jail now. He flips out. Starts crying, begging for another chance, promises to never do it again, etc, etc, etc.

 

{{{hugs to you both}}} You both had a meltdown.

 

So, I tell dh and he decided to set up an appt. at our local police station for ds7 to really "go to jail". Basically it's a tour of the facility, the cells and a big-time lecture on why we don't steal!

 

This is related, reasonable and respectful.

 

You, in your dumbfoundedness, "lost it". In the moment, a better alternative would have been to turn the vehicle around, go back to the store, have the child talk to the manager, you pay for the gum and the child does an extra chore at home to make up for the unplanned expense.

[gandpsmommy]

Sue, I feel for you. I know how awful it feels when your child returns to a behavior that you thought you had conquered together. I understand the guilt, the self-blame, the wondering if you've done everything wrong. I also understand the part about being stressed out, not feeling well, being the only adult in charge of children for long hours, etc., and when this huge surprise drops in your lap (increasing the already present tension significantly), losing it and just yelling the first thing you think of that you think will make the child really sorry for doing something so unacceptable. I've never had the stealing issue, but I've dealt with dishonesty with my ds, and it is so frustrating. You don't want to believe that your child will grow up continuing this behavior and be an untrustworthy person (at least that's how I feel when dealing with dishonesty).

 

I don't know your child, so maybe this wouldn't be true of him, but I know that having to go to a jail (even if just for a tour and a lecture) would frighten both of my kids (7 and 4.5) in a very bad way. It wouldn't be healthy or productive, because it would just be way too scary. And I agree with the other posters who said the main goal of discipline for them is trying to help our chidlren internalize standards and do the right thing by choice because it is the right thing to do, not out of fear of punishment. I'm also thinking that this probably *is* your long term goal, but in the short term you are trying to figure out a way to stop him from doing this again.

 

I could understand taking a child for a jail tour and police lecture if the child were older (10-12) and still hadn't internalized the standard that stealing is wrong and was still not able to exert self-control over his impulses to take things, but as Joanne pointed out, he is only 7. Which is not to say that the behavior should be taken lightly, but that it should maybe be treated differently. I've learned that sometimes we back ourselves into corners in parenting (so to speak) by speaking too quickly without thinking (I am queen of this!). But just because you blurted out that he would have to go to jail, in the heat of the moment, does not mean that you have to go through with it if you don't think it's really the wisest course of action after having time to cool down and think about it. I think that being honest with your children can go a long way, and that explaining to your son that you were so upset when you found out that he had stolen something that you said that he must go to jail because you wanted him to understand how serious this was, but when thinking about it calmly you realized that what he really needs to do to learn that stealing is wrong and to do the right thing is xyz (whatever you and your husband decide is appropriate).

 

As I mentioned before, I have never dealt with the stealing issue, but I do think that having to return the stolen item and admit to the store manager that he stole it, apologize, and either pay the money for it (if he has any money, or work for you to earn the money you had to pay for it, would be the best way to deal with it. This teaches him that we have to admit our wrongdoing and make restitution. I also think that requiring him to stay right by your side during every shopping trip (sitting in the cart, even?) until he proves his trustworthiness is a logical consequence and deterrent to it's happening again.

 

Good luck, Sue. I know this isn't easy. I hope today is a better day.

[Lisa in Jax]

I've lost my temper. I've said things I regretted. I've made mistakes. NONE of us is perfect. You are not alone in being human!

 

If you want to let him go see a jail and you think it will help, by all means follow through.

 

If you now wish for another way to show your son the "go to jail" concept without going to a real jail, how about this? Tell your son that b/c he stole again, he will be in "mom's and dad's jail." Explain to your son that it's your job to teach him to be a responsible, respectful, law-abiding citizen while he's a child. If he learns those rules/expectations now (as a child), he won't have to go to "real" jail when he's older. If he doesn't learn from "mom and dad's jail" and continues to ignore rules/laws, he may eventually have to go to the real jail.

 

We had to do this with DS once. He kept taking other kids' things (w/o their permission). No matter how much he seemed to be remorseful when he was caught, he kept doing it. Real "jail" had no meaning for him, and he would have been traumatized by seeing a real jail b/c he was in an orphanage before he came to us, and is easily traumatized by loud adults. So, we told him he would spend some time in "mom and dad's jail. It let him see how bad it would be to be told when to eat, exercise, sleep, etc., and to have NO privileges or choices.

 

"Mom and Dad's jail" (in our house) meant plain, boring food, no tv/video games, lots of time in his room or in a place of mom's/dad's choosing (doing chores, etc.), and no privileges. We put his clothes on his bed each morning -- he did not choose them. He played when mom/dad said he could play, he ate when we said he could (and WHAT we said he could eat), and he slept when we said ("lights out" was earlier than normal). We didn't tell him how long his "sentence" was for, but we knew that we wouldn't do it for more than a day or two. As soon as he seemed to "get it," jail ended the next morning.

 

If you do this, and you have to go out of the house while he's "in jail," his pockets are checked every single time. He must hold your hand or hold the cart next to you, and stay in sight at all times. He does not get to buy treats. He gets basic care (and love) only.

 

This is done with love and empathy, but it's meant to show him that privileges are for those who follow rules and expectations. For most kids, this will be a real wake-up call. He won't like it one bit, but it may help him realize that he MUST learn to interrupt his impulses for taking things.

 

HIH,

 

Lisa

:grouphug:

 

QUOTE=Sue G in PA;470786]I'm setting myself up for major criticism, I know. I've over-posted on discipline issues and I sincerely appreciate all the great tidbits of advice. I now have a file for just those respones. You all know parenting is not my forte. If that isn't clear by now...it will be crystal clear after this post. Well, it seems my ds7 has NOT learned his lesson about stealing. Last time he took candy from our grocery store. We took him back there to return it and apologize. He was totally freaked out by that. Never though we'd have another issue. Well, we're out at Office Depot today to get the "deals" that end today (they were out of all that I wanted anyway! :glare:) but i did get a few things. While in line, my kids are all right there with me, behaving quite nicely. Ds7 is looking at the candy and I catch his eye and tell him to come to me. I don't trust him just yet. So, we leave the store and he has his arms crossed over his chest. Weird, so I ask him to show me his hands. He does and there is nothing there. I ask him if there is anything in his shirt or pockets...he says no. So, off we go. Well, on the way back home, dd11 overhears ds7 and ds5 talking about this "candy" that they can share. Turns out...ds7, my little kleptomaniac, DID take a pack of gum! I was dumbfounded! I lost it. I took the gum, took his Star Wars action figures, told him he couldn't participate in the Bike Rally for Ranger Kids at church tonight and that he would have to go to jail now. He flips out. Starts crying, begging for another chance, promises to never do it again, etc, etc, etc. Okay, so I didn't handle it well. Picture this: mom is tired, has a headache, just finds out dh won't be home until late, baby is screaming, toddler is whining, etc. So, I tell dh and he decided to set up an appt. at our local police station for ds7 to really "go to jail". Basically it's a tour of the facility, the cells and a big-time lecture on why we don't steal! The police officer did tell dh that they can't charge him until he is 8yo! Like we wanted to press charges against our 7yo! We just want to scare him straight! Okay, rant over. I'm a horrible parent.

[swellmomma]

my ds steals a fair amount, not shoplifting as I do random pocket checks, but money from my purse and food at home. I aksed the police station if I could bring him in for a talk and tour, and was told they are not in the business of threatening kids. SO instead we held a yard sale with all his favorite toys, statues etc to earn back the money he stole. That was 2 weeks ago, he has only stolen my money once since then. He did shoplift once, and has tried a couple times, but I tell them before going in the store that he has not earned back my trust and pocket checks will be done. I do them randomly as we go through the store,a nd before leaving. He gets very embarassed so in the 2 years that I have instituted them he has only tried to steal things twice.

 

If you continue to find this an issue, and the police tour didn't work, then I recommend a yard sale. Everything that didn't sell I bagged up and hid in the back of the storage room. He thinks I put them in the trash and it has served as a huge reminder for him. If he can go a good 6 months without a single incident I will return them to him.

[TXMomof4]

My opinion is that kids continue to test what they have "learned" before. I think that the jail tour might be good- but I would definitely go back to Staples and require the boy to confess and pay for the gum out of his own money to the manager. Call ahead if you need to and give the manager a heads up.

 

I would definately call and let them know you're coming and exactly what you're trying to accomplish. DD stole something one time and when we went to return it the manager said, "Thank you for being honest. Would you like to keep the candy?" HUH??? Yes, please reward the little thief so she will steal candy from you every time we walk in the door! I was appalled that that was what she learned. "Confess and get something good" was the precedent set by that one simple situation.

[Remudamom]

I don't think anyone here will accuse you of not handling it right. I think you did well, and the police visit is a great idea.

[H.S. Burrow]

:grouphug: Saying very gently: I noticed that DS 7 is smack-dab in the middle of your kiddos and that you have a young baby. It sounds like he has learned that by stealing he gets mom's focus on *just* him.

 

I think other posters have given great advice on what' s normal for his age and completely agree with it, but I also believe that part of this is to get your attention focused on him and him alone. At his age, he doesn't care if the attention is bad/negative attention as long as it's only directed at him.

 

In addtion to the other advice, is there anyway you can "schedule" mom-time with *just* him? Even if it's just 15 - 20 minutes to read a fun book with only him? :grouphug:

[readwithem]

I think Lisa's idea of "home jail" is a great one.

[Tammyla]

:grouphug: I'd suspend his shopping privileges.

[mommaduck]

Good point, Mrs. Weasley! Middle kids do have their own issues...I know my two main middlers keep me on my toes ;)

[Plucky]

Just be consistent. Enforce negative consequences so that stealing isn't a pleasant thing. Try to get the kiddo to understand it's wrong. For one of mine, I almost frisk them at the checkout. Some kids this age take longer to teach - I've got one. :)

[Sophia]

I agree with pp's that encourage you to address the heart issues behind this, but also believe you are doing your son a favor by showing him where thievery will land him.

In a few years, a police officer isn't going to care about his heart, nor are store managers likely to respond kindly; they're just going to press charges.

 

:grouphug:

[Sue G in PA]

Great ideas everyone and thanks for not coming down on me too hard! I'm liking the idea of home jail for him. I'll have to discuss it w/ dh this evening. Dh still wants to take him on a tour of the jail and speak w/ the officer about what happens to children who do steal consistently. See, at 8yo he can legally be charged and prosecuted as a juvenile. Some stores are very forgiving...others are not. Others like to use children as "examples". I don't want my son to have to go through that, KWIM? He must learn and if his "internal moral compass" hasn't developed just yet...then he must be "scared straight". I do know that some kids go through a phase of stealing, but stealing is stealing. It's against the law! What if he does get caught before leaving the store and the manager wants to press charges to make an examples of him? This happened to a friend of mine growing up and it was one big mess for her and her family...all over some silly pack of gum or candy (I can't remember what she took but it was something silly like that). Anyway, I'm really quite upset about this still and I didn't go back to the store. I had a screaming baby, whining toddler and I had a major headache...not a good time to take ds back. Can you all imagine that scene? So, we will take him back (dh threw the gum away) and confess and pay for it...probably while dh is out with him tomorrow.

 

Thanks again for your advice everyone!