Question for Dance Moms

[Mama Geek]

Dd has been in ballet and gymnastics this spring.  Her recital is tonight and she is just as cute as can be.  My goal for dd is to have fun and to learn technique and grace and to learn to be comfortable on stage.  I am not planning on professional dancer or gymnast.

I would like to have a discussion on dance studios in general and find out if the one I have her going to is typical.  I like the people that own the studio, they are really nice and like the kids a lot.  It is a pretty conservative school so no racy costumes or dances at any level.  My questions come concerning their lack of organization and what appears to be their lack of producing any really good dancers.  We had dress rehearsal last night and nobody seemed to be exceptionally good.  There were lots that were fine and there were several that struggled.  We didn't stay for the more advanced ballet portions of the rehearsal as dd had finished hers and was pretty tired, so I am basing my opinions on seeing only 3/4 of the performance.  I would also say that most if not all the dancers were 12 and under that we saw but that is just a guess.  I didn't expect clean performances from 3 and 4 year olds, but I did expect to see mostly clean performance from the older groups and they just didn't seem to be ready.

 

Now as far as the lack of organization goes, they have about 200 kids in the school.  They have to take separate checks for everything, so you can't write 1 check for this month's tuition and a recital T-shirt and a costume.  They passed out tickets based on when people registered and gave each family 6 tickets.  I was one of the last to register so we have awful seats.  They passed them out over several days in the evenings based on your assigned number.  Lots of people spent an hour or more waiting to get tickets on their designated night.  

 

Instead of taking 1 video of the class and sending it out for the kids to practice they had parents that were interested come in and video tape their child's class, so you had multiple people in the class taking videos at least 2 different days.

 

For the dress rehearsal and recital they do not want the kids to be back stage until 6 numbers before their number.  This created a lot of movement throughout the dress rehearsal and I figure the same thing will happen at the recital tonight.  They sent out an e-mail, but didn't have the schedule posted anywhere so that you could track when you needed to take your child back.  They wanted everyone there at 6:00 but had no communication or even anyway to figure out who was there and who wasn't.  The first kids didn't go back stage until about 6:45.  They had pre show stuff going on.  They want all the kids there by 5:30 tonight which is an hour early and this all means fully dressed with makeup and hair done.  That basically means there are lots of little kids just waiting around in the audience for an extremely long time before they go backstage.  

 

This is the first time I have been involved in anything like this.  It all seems so chaotic and it seems like they have created extra chaos.  I wasn't sure  the whole recital thing in a big theater especially for a 3 year old isn't kind of crazy anyway.  Dd didn't learn near the skills that I expected, they had materials that I looked at when I signed her up.  I am planning to put her in their technique camp this summer it is one week for about an hour and a half a day and isn't super expensive.  I hope she will make more progress on skills than she did throughout the spring.  I am really on the fence about signing her up for the fall and if I do would I be better off finding a different studio or will there be lots of the same types of issues.

 

So are these things pretty typical in your experience?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Snickerdoodle]

I am interested in hearing from experienced moms too regarding the above...

[bettyandbob]

I think the appearance of disorganization is part of performing arts. I've gotten used to the studio not running on the posted schedule. The shows always come off well. Our studio has two big shows a year. 

 

I think poor skill among dancers is more concerning.  Our studio has graduates at Mariinsky, Miami City Ballet, Boston Ballet, and other places. Our studio is small: last year was a huge graduating class of 6, this year we have 2 graduating. I suggest you look at if any older students have professional aspirations and where they go after leaving the studio. At most studios, I don't think you would have to ask. You would find this information in a media section on their website or perhaps they have newsclippings and announcements on bulletin boards in the waiting area of the studio. If they haven't posted anything about graduates' successes then you might ask or conclude they are not training anyone well enough to progress further. 

 

I think knowing that studio graduates are progressing at professional levels gives you an idea that the studio is teaching good foundational techniques. Then, you need to look at how everyone else fits in. I think a big thing I like about dd's studio is that it caters to the needs of all the dancers and there are a range of abilities. Among the older students there are potential professionals and there are people who just like to dance. I think the teachers are more likely to give more attention to students who work hard and focus more, rather than students who may have more talent, but aren't interested in working. 

 

OK now I see your dd is 3. I'd probably let her have fun with dance and other actiivities for another year or so before worrying about the studio too much. In preschool I just worried about whether my dd was enjoying her introduction to something. You don't need to spend a lot of money to have an enjoyable intro to an activity. I guess if you think you'll be at this same studio for a while, you might look at how the preschool classes transition to early technique classes for 6 year olds. 

[kroe1]

DD13 goes to one of the rogue schools (competition and winning is everything). There are 550 kids attending, 200 on the competition team, 80 this past weekend at DisneyWorld, and 5 end of year shows coming up in 2 weeks. It is crazy,busy and always appear shelter skelter.

 

But, the studio is extremely organized. There is one cost a year which covers everything including classes, costumes, and competitions. This can be divided on a monthly payment plan.

 

There will be a paper bag backstage for every child already printed with his name. This is for throwing costumes and clothes in so pieces do not get lost or mixed up. There are check ins and check outs for traveling so kiddos do not get lost or left behind.

 

But this studio is family run with lots of extended family helping. Also, many mom and dads help with all the shows and competitions. So sometimes a studio can appear disorganized when it really is not. It is just the volume of children. You may want to see the finished product before making your final assessment.

[I talk to the trees]

Take a deep breath and relax. (My dd's recital is this weekend, so I'm trying to practice what I preach, here. ;) )

 

First, I agree with Betty. Sometimes what appears to be chaos is just the normal excitement of performance. And asking performers to report an hour early is pretty standard, and allows wiggle room for pre-show difficulties.

 

Second, your dd is 3. Is she having fun? Does she look forward to her lessons? Does she come out of the classes happy? Those are the things to be concerned with right now. You may not see "progress" for a couple of years yet. That doesn't mean your dd isn't learning. It may just take a while for her coordination and balance to catch up with what she has learned.

 

Finally, don't judge the studio until you have seen those older dancers! And don't judge until you have seen the actual recital. Often, dancers hold back a bit at the rehearsal, but really shine at the performance.

 

Have fun tonight, and good luck to your dd!

[Mama Geek]

Take a deep breath and relax. (My dd's recital is this weekend, so I'm trying to practice what I preach, here. ;) )

 

First, I agree with Betty. Sometimes what appears to be chaos is just the normal excitement of performance. And asking performers to report an hour early is pretty standard, and allows wiggle room for pre-show difficulties.

 

Second, your dd is 3. Is she having fun? Does she look forward to her lessons? Does she come out of the classes happy? Those are the things to be concerned with right now. You may not see "progress" for a couple of years yet. That doesn't mean your dd isn't learning. It may just take a while for her coordination and balance to catch up with what she has learned.

 

Finally, don't judge the studio until you have seen those older dancers! And don't judge until you have seen the actual recital. Often, dancers hold back a bit at the rehearsal, but really shine at the performance.

 

Have fun tonight, and good luck to your dd!

I understand what you are saying.  Dd did really really well for her first time.  She is pretty athletic and has enjoyed the classes and said last night she didn't want to come off the stage.  They didn't do anything that she wasn't capable of.  If anything I think she could have easily done more.  We will likely stay until the end tonight and I have mentioned driving 2 cars just incase dd is exhausted again and needs to be taken home.  We have several friends coming so I really think she will probably stay for the whole thing.  Our concern was the lack of organization and communication and the fact that the older kids that we did see had as many issues as they did.  I do look forward to tonight and I think dd is looking forward to it as well.

[catz]

I understand what you are saying.  Dd did really really well for her first time.  She is pretty athletic and has enjoyed the classes and said last night she didn't want to come off the stage.  They didn't do anything that she wasn't capable of.  If anything I think she could have easily done more.  We will likely stay until the end tonight and I have mentioned driving 2 cars just incase dd is exhausted again and needs to be taken home.  We have several friends coming so I really think she will probably stay for the whole thing.  Our concern was the lack of organization and communication and the fact that the older kids that we did see had as many issues as they did.  I do look forward to tonight and I think dd is looking forward to it as well.

 

I think with a group of pre-schoolers there will be a huge range and the teachers often for a performance will try to do something the entire group can do well.  Some kids will be ready to listen in a group setting, and some kids are just there to burn some energy.  I don't think you can make huge judgments about a studio on a 3 year old class. 

 

It is odd  that there were only kids up to 12?  Our dance studio tends to perform age 3 up into college and some performances feature company members.   On the disorganization, that doesn't seem that unusual.  We've been with our studio for going on 5 years.  The studio was several years old when we started.  I've watched them go through growing pains and see things evolve.  Things are actually much more organized when we started.  On the other hand, a couple of volunteer moms have really taken the reigns on this and sometimes that is what it takes with a small organization.

 

I guess I personally wouldn't make any big decisions until your daughter is about 6 and studios start teaching real technique.  It might be fun to attend some other studio's performances if possible.

 

[Mama Geek]

It looks like they just scheduled the older kids for later in the performance.  I went through the schedule and looked at the ages and they were at the end of the night.

[Guest submarines]

f I wasn't sure  the whole recital thing in a big theater especially for a 3 year old isn't kind of crazy anyway.  Dd didn't learn near the skills that I expected, they had materials that I looked at when I signed her up.  I am planning to put her in their technique camp this summer it is one week for about an hour and a half a day and isn't super expensive.  I hope she will make more progress on skills than she did throughout the spring.  I am really on the fence about signing her up for the fall and if I do would I be better off finding a different studio or will there be lots of the same types of issues.

 

 

So are these things pretty typical in your experience?

 

 

 

 

DD is 6, and even then I think the whole professional auditorium is a bit (a lot?) of an overkill when it comes to 6 year olds who are not in the intensive training program. I'd go further, I am not keen on this huge professional auditorium and all the commotion for anyone who is not in the intensive training.

 

Frankly, I find the idea of a technique class for a 3 year old to be an oxymoron.

 

Our studio has recreational dancers, intensive program dancers, and dedicated dance groups.

 

I don't think it is fair to expect much from recreational dancers--they join for the fun of it, often mid year, or their parents sign them up (and the children aren't interested at all), and they are all levels of abilities, especially during that first year. In our studio children can start beginner ballet or beginner hip hop at any age. How much progress can one realistically expect from a recreational 12 year old ballet dancer who took a 1h class a week? The fact that they are doing it, and are on stage is already amazing.

 

I wouldn't judge a studio on its recreational dancers. I actually love that our studio provides quality dancing instruction to children of all abilities and body shapes, in addition to having amazing dancers in their intensive training program.

 

 

[kroe1]

Your idea to watch older dancers is great. We routinely see other studios and watch the oldest groups perform. How else would one know for sure which has the best option for your child. Rare is the mom who is going to say her kiddo goes to a bad studio. Most moms will say their kiddos go to the best studio. That makes it hard for you to choose.

 

I do not think looking for great studios for a 3 year old is too soon. If you are wanting to do the whole competition life, then by age 6, many of these dancers are quite good. I do agree, however, that balance and rhythm are rarely possessed by a 3 year old. If you think your DD is ready for more, then try one of the rogue schools. Check with multiple national competitions to find out who wins big at their regionals which cover your area. Different schools go to different competitions so check 4 or 5. The rogue schools have the philosophy to teach all kids all things together. Some things will stick, but all will achieve it eventually. The more pre-professional schools are likely to make sure all girls can do a step properly and perfectly before moving on to new things.

 

Finally, it is OK to change schools often if necessary. A school is only as good as its teachers. Teachers change studios so schools go through ups and downs in ability. A school that is not that good this year may be the one to be in a year or two later.

 

Your questions and concerns are valid. I can see the beginnings of a great dance mom.

[AngelaNYC]

We've been a part of several studios and here's what I found:

 

1.  Of course it really does depend on the studio and the teachers, but many studios that do not have a competition team, don't produce great dancers.  They usually don't bring the kids to master classes, hire bigger name choreographers, or have that competitive drive that pushes harder work from the kids.  

 

2.  Disorganization is the downfall of so many studios.  Dd's newest studio is the most organized I've seen so far.  They have a ticket-ordering website where parents choose the seats they want from a detailed grid of the concert hall.  If you paid your "recital fee" you get a checkout code that automatically makes 4 tickets free.  No one was allowed to reserve their seats until 9am this past Sunday.  This studio does 6 recitals.  

 

3.  A good way I've seen was to have the parents videotape their child's routines at the dress rehearsal.  The studio should have a videographer the day of the recital.

 

4.  Dd's studios always had more than 200 kids.  The way it was done was that all the kids (and parents with a wristband who could be backstage) had to be there an hour before showtime.  The kids remain in the dressing rooms by group until their number is called and they are led out (holding hands if they're little) by their teacher.  I agree it is sooo hard for kids to wait and not get antsy.  The studio owner also had a big table full of snacks and water for everyone, which is a great idea.

 

5.  Recital time is usually a bit chaotic even in the most organized studios.  It's not easy finding a studio that has it all together.  The technique camp sounds fun and I'm sure it will help with her skills.  I would suggest seeing how you feel around August.  If you're still not thrilled with how things are run then ask around for a better studio.  I would check out a studio that has a competition team - even if you don't want to be a part of that, they do tend to be more organized and offer more (usually, lol). 

[Jenny in Florida]

It looks like they just scheduled the older kids for later in the performance.  I went through the schedule and looked at the ages and they were at the end of the night.

 

That's pretty typical, I think. It allows the younger kids to perform while they are still relatively fresh and without having to wait around longer than necessary and means the show ends with the most impressive performances.

 

I will say that I really prefer when studios mix it up a bit, breaking up the string of little kid performances with some of the more experienced dancers. Little ones are adorable, but for those of us who don't have young ones, the cute fades into tedium by the fifth or sixth or tenth group of preschoolers who don't know their dance and/or can't stay together.

 

As others have said, disorganization does seem to be the norm for arts schools. My son has been dancing for nine years and is on his third school, and we've had the same kinds of challenges at all of them. 

[Rebel Yell]

Oooooh!  I have had dancers for 15+ years now, in several different types of studios.  I don't have as much time as I'd like to reply, so I'll check in later.  I just want to say- look at my signature!  Diamond is getting her Associate's in Small Business Management because everywhere we've been, the DANCE part has been fine- excellent technique at the classical ballet studio, great varety and fun at the mid-level recreational school. BUT everywhere- the business end of things was lacking, and was almost always the reason why families switched schools, dropped or never registered for desired classes, stayed and were generally unhappy, or quit dance altogether.

 

More thoughts to come later...

[mom2scouts]

Just some random thoughts:

*Schools run their studios differently, but I would be most worried about poor technique. If your dd wants to continue dancing, compete, or switch studios, poor technique could cause a lot of problems.  If the older girls don't look good (or if there aren't older girls), I would be worried.

*My studio owner is not only a genius business owner (everybody complains about the constant costs, but they just keep paying), but the shows are like major professional productions.  Even they 3 and 4 year olds are expected to DANCE and not just stand on stage looking cute. Young children who won't dance or listen to instruction are sometimes asked to leave the studio and try again in a year or two.  All of our dancers over the age of 4 are expected to stay backstage for the entire recital which is about four hours long!

*I wouldn't think anything about a large theater.  My dd started dance competitions at the age of 5 and is comfortable in all kinds of theaters and on all kinds of stages.

*Our studio is chaotic, especially this time of year, but mostly because it has over 500 dancers and on some nights the studio is wall-to-wall people.

*Since our recitals are productions with a storyline throughout, young children are put in the recital wherever their dance fits in the storyline.  It could be early or late, but different ages are spread throughout the show.

*Our intensive team members and recreational dancers are all in the same technique classes, so everybody is getting the same training.  Intensive team members just dance more (much more).

*Our studio owner gives us a *huge* packet of papers in March with every detail of the recital and pre-recital information. (Costumes, props, hair, staging and dress rehearsal times, recital photo times, ticket sale info., when to arrive, order of dances, volunteer info. and more).

*We are expected to arrive at shows or competitions 1.5 hours early in full makeup and costumes.

[justasque]

They want all the kids there by 5:30 tonight which is an hour early and this all means fully dressed with makeup and hair done.  That basically means there are lots of little kids just waiting around in the audience for an extremely long time before they go backstage.

I'll just address this one part, having seen it play out from backstage. If they say 5:30, about half or three quarters of the kids will get there at 5:45, with most of the rest trickling in until 6:00. While some will be fully dressed with makeup and hair, others will be in the wrong costume, will need hair help because mom isn't a bun expert yet, or will not have makeup on. At least one will have a rip in her tights and one will have tights that are the wrong color, for which a substitute must be found. Several will be wearing the wrong costume (the one for their second number instead of the one for their first number), and at least one will have the wrong hairstyle.

Ideally you will have one number on stage, one in the wings ready to go on, one on the stairs leading to the wings, and one lining up in the correct order in the hallway, and one lining up in the dressing room. To get this set up, you need to start lining the kids up and pottying them a good 20 minutes before you expect the show to start.

Then, three minutes before the show starts, one or two special snowflakes will show up, waltzing in as if it shouldn't be a problem for them to be an hour late.

Everyone needs to go to the potty.

Shoes need to be tied, straps need to be straightened, accessories need to be found and put on. Hairpieces must be pinned firmly and checked to be sure they don't fall off. Any costume malfunctions must be addressed. The children need to be fussed over and loved on so they are confident when they go onstage.

 

It's a pretty big undertaking, and much of the work is unseen by the audience.

Be a good dance mom and get your kid there when they want her there, make sure you have everything they want her to have, and be kind to the people who are trying to make everything run smoothly.

 

Most important, enjoy watching your child dance!!!

[KungFuPanda]

Our favorite dance teacher does multiple shows on recite days. They're less than an hour long. The tiny tutus do ONE show and they leave. The older dancers do EVERY show and camp out all day. Everyone gets to see the advanced dancers no matter which show you attend, but nobody but the teachers and older dancers are there for hours on end. If you have an older girl in a company, you just pick whichever show you want to attend.

 

Unless it's your OWN tiny tutu on stage, it can get a little tedious to watch a dozen of them in a row. It's also kinder to the little kids to not keep them too long. She sets aside a block of seats for the tiny girls so they can watch the show, then has older dancers escort them backstage when it's their turn to perform. It costs more to rent the space this way, but it really tames the chaos.

[Lady Marmalade]

Having gone through a horrible studio closure last year, I have to say that disorganization is a huge red flag for me.  I don't care what age the dancer is.  I always thought the last-minute communications and seemingly disorganized studio was the norm.  It's not.

 

Our new studio is beyond organized.  We received all the information we could possibly need for an end of May recital at the end of March.  We received picture week information a full month ahead of time.  We ordered our recital tickets through an online service this year- what a difference!  For competition, we received a huge packet of information for the whole year at the beginning of October.

 

There is a balance out there if you can find it.  A good competitive studio will also have an excellent rec program- because that's where the foundations are learned.   Our studio is probably not the norm- our competition teams are excelling and taking the top scores at every competition we attend.  Our Company team did a private audition for America's Got Talent and does workshops all over the country.  We also have a Ballet Intensive program, and extensive classes for non-competitive dancers- our teachers put JUST as much focus and effort into the non-competition classes.   We have dozens of past students in the professional dance world in so many areas.

 

Our closed studio focused on competition the last years in business and was a direct reason for their closure- they failed to focus on the rec dancers, and it became way obvious, and a ton of people left because of it.

 

Something I've also learned to look for is what your dancer actually does all year.  We added a second studio to our line-up this year because it was the only way my DD could take a specific class.  It was good in some ways, but the second studio spent the entire year working on the recital dances.  They do technique in the summer, and for a few minutes each week, but I was shocked to learn that the spent all year working on recital dances.  This second studio was a purely rec studio, and while I have no doubt the kids were having fun (they were all smiles at the recital), the lack of technique was very obvious.  The graduating seniors did a special dance and spoke about their time with this studio- I was flabbergasted that these seniors talked about being with this studio since they were 4,5, and 6 years old.  Their technique was not good- and I'm talking simple things like straight legs and pointed toes.

 

At 3 you have plenty of time before you decide whether to get more serious with dance, and honestly, if you are feeling unsure, I would take advantage of your DD's young age to shop around and try different studios.   It gets harder when they are older and have developed special friendships and relationships with the teaching staff.

[Momling]

Our studio has a separate recital for the pre-ballet/creative movement kids (ages 3-6) and then includes the ballet students into a full ballet which is practiced outside of class for several months prior. The showcase is super low-key with the teachers on stage, directing and talking about the skills that have been learned. The kids wear basic leotards and skirts as costumes that can be worn later in class. It's all very relaxed and voluntary.

The owners of the studio do a very good job of organizing, but sometimes parents don't read the instructions or kids get overexcited and then it gets chaotic.