Ask a polyamorist

[ThisIsTheDay]

Also mentioned in post #42 by another person who also remembers the info from two months ago.

 

Actually, I remembered it from a post earlier this week. I don't know the one a few months ago.

[Ravin]

How are you viewed and treated by your family, friends, coworkers and neighbors? Does it make a difference to you? Do you have a set of morals/values you share with partners you live with? How are your children treated by other people who disagree with your life style, or do you not encounter any problems? Are you ok with one or all of your partners having other sex partners aside from you and simultaneously when they are your partners?

Those are the questions that come to mind.

Just as Kinsa, I have never known a person who openly admits s/he lives a polyamory life style. So I am also genuinely curious.

Family either ignore the relationship, or accept it in a "whatever floats your boat" sort of way. Friends pretty much all the latter. We've never been shunned or treated badly over it.

 

Yes, other relationships are ok with me. I myself haven't pursued any in a long while because I haven't got the time, energy, money, or patience to go looking for more at this point.

[Murmer]

Thank you!  I appreciate you taking the time to answer these questions.  

[Ravin]

How does each partner feel toward each of the others? Let's say there are 2 men and 2 women. How does man 1 feel toward man 2? How does man 1 feel toward woman 1? How does man 1 feel toward woman 2, etc? Is everyone heterosexual? Is everyone bisexual? Is it a mixture? This may be different in every case, I suppose.

 

Is it usually one man with more than one woman, or does it work all ways? (Same number of sexes? One woman with two men?)

 

Do you schedule time alone with each partner on a calendar to make sure everyone feels they get fair/equal time? If there are two men and one woman, how do they know whose child it is? Do they care?

Our arrangement is a v with DH at the point. My friend I mentioned earlier is at the point of a v with two male partners. I'm bisexual, GF is mostly straight, and DH is pretty much straight despite sticking with me through my transition.

 

GF was looking done with child bearing when she joined us. My friend's 4 kids are all with her husband, as her boyfriend joined her family after baby #4 did.

 

In my family we don't schedule much. We just go with the flow. For my friend, they had a schedule when her husband was with his girlfriend not sure what they do now.

[Ravin]

This is probably a stupid question, but would you desire that the law be changed to accept marriages between multiple partners, or do you feel that it doesn't matter?

 

Do you know any other polyamorous or polygamous families in your area?

 

Is it offensive to lump polygamy and polyamory together?

There are actually two issues: decriminalization and regulation. I'm in favor of both. Until very recently (a federal court case by the Browns of Sister Wives fame got it struck in federal court), our situation could have been prosecuted in Utah under their bigamy statute, which included cohabitation with multiple marriage at common law to cast a wide net targeted at fundamentalist Mormon polygamists.

 

Decriminalization is likely to come in time in most places, following the reasoning of Lawrence v. Texas. And as long as you don't call it marriage, you upset a lot fewer apple carts.

 

Regulation and the availability of recognition could extend legal protections to those in plural relationships and their children. It would be complicated to do, because you'd need a customizable approach with a predictable set of legal rules. But some sort of domestic partnership structure could be devised that could account for multiple domestic partners just as multiple partners can be accounted for in business partnerships.

 

I have a few friends in poly relationships. There are a few polygamists in my faith community, too.

 

Whether it's offensive to lump polygamy with polyamory depends on the reason they're being lumped.

[Ravin]

Do you and GF have a romantic relationship, either separate from or including dh? I know one other polyamorous family and they appear to all have separate physical relationships with each other. Is that typical?

 

(Please feel free to ignore the question if it is too personal or inapprorpiate.)

It entirely depends on the individuals. We have in the past, with DH, but not without him. She smokes and I don't like it.

[Ravin]

So, it sounds like the GF is a relationship mostly between her and your DH, is that correct? Have you ever had a relationship outside of the one with your DH?

Yes, but not since kids came along. They take a lot of emotional energy and my introverted self gets more than enough intimacy and closeness of various kinds in the present arrangement.

[Ravin]

 

Does your marriage to your DH and not to your DW#2 mean that your commitment to your DH comes above your commitment to all the other people in your relationship? Would there be jealousy issues because of the marriage between partner#1 and #2 and the others being thought of as GF or BF etc.

 

Are you and your DH the "permanent" people in this relationship because of your marriage to each other and do you think that you might change your other partners but not your spouse for long term?

 

Is it OK for one spouse to have partners without the other spouse being involved in that relationship?

 

How about society's reaction - if you work, go to school etc, and people have opinions that are not always welcoming or accepting, does it make you feel bad or upset? Or frustrated or lonely or sad?

 

GF was married and it ended badly, though they're amicable co-parents. She feels more secure not marrying again. As far as level of commitment, legal entanglements aside GF and I are equals as far as depth of relationship with DH.

 

Whether it's okay for one spouse to have partners without the other depends on their individual feelings and particular relationship. Everyone should be on the same page about whatever is going on. For some people, one relationship is primary and others secondary.

[Ravin]

Did any of you grow up in a polyamorous household?

 

If not, are there any others who live this way in your extended families?

 

What are the benefits that you perceive from this type of relationship as opposed to monogamy? Drawbacks?

No, but we have all seem serial monogamy and how that does or doesn't work out.

[Ravin]

Is there a plan in place if/when your kids get older and they absolutely do not like someone you've brought into the relationship?

They get as much say as they'd get in a serial monogamy situation. The kids: get along in our present arrangement just fine. GF's boys have more contact with her because we are supportive. Her ex boyfriend (not their father) was a jerk who would get jealous of her spending time with her kids. DD was just 4 when GF joined our family, and DS has met known anything different.

[Ravin]

 

Any tips for people looking into this for themselves?

Openness and honest communication of feelings are critical.

[Ravin]

Were there other poly relationships within your marriage before the gf came into the picture? I hope that doesn't come across like I think this is some casual thin where partners are added and subtracted willy nilly. I'm just not quite sure how else to word it.

There was a short period where this guy I was involved with followed me home from Japan. In a nutshell, when putting two alpha males under one roof, there can be issues. Especially when one of them is emotionally unstable (and I don't mean DH). Only bad breakup I've ever had. His behavior was bizarre.

 

I was also in a short relationship with a guy in a relationship with another girl before DH came along.

[Ravin]

I think you might be talking about Big Love, which was a fictional drama. Good show, though it was about polygamists rather than polyamorists.

 

The one I was referring to was Sister Wives on TLC. They are also polygamists rather than polyamorists and are portrayed in a very positive light, in my opinion.

No, Big Love was on HBO. There was a reality show on Showtime, at least 2 seasons long but I don't remember what it was called. I read a review of it on a poly blog.

[Ravin]

This is a more personal question, so I apologize if it's inappropriate, How does your gender transition play into your polyamory? What does your husband think,and what effect will this have on the different adult relationships within your family?

My therapist asked those questions too. DH sees marriage as a lifetime commitment. He's also big on each of us doing what we must to lead fulfilling lives. So he's not thrilled, but he's accepted it. GF just thinks I'm weird, but that's nothing new. Much like the reaction of the rest of my family.

[Ravin]

What kind of parents did you grow up with? Have you experienced any trauma in any way? Ere you abused or neglected? When did you find out you would be better off if you changed your gender? Is this part of staying not bored?

I am very curious.

My parents are pretty normal. No abuse, though some unhappy times. My parents held on to their marriage "for the kids" and we were all miserable for it, but not spectacularly so.

 

The gender stuff is probably fodder for its own thread.

[Heather in Neverland]

I am curious how it would work if, say, you and GF's relationship fell apart but her relationship with the DH was fine... How does divorce/breaking up work if everyone is not at the same place in the relationship? Or what if you wanted to divorce DH but wanted to stay with GF and he also wanted to stay with GF? Etc. Divorce/breaking up is so difficult normally. I imagine it must be very hard when 3 people need to be considered.

[NicAnn]

My question, if it hasn't been asked- do you feel like your relationship is more important (for lack of a better word) than his with GF? Or maybe more valid? I ask because I suspect when a friend of mine finally finds someone for their marriage, I will not look to her as a real part of our family/friends. Does that makes sense...?

 

Eta- I will try to not view her differently though.

[Ravin]

Okay, one more then I'll stop. (LOL)

 

Ravin, this one is going to be insensitive, and I've debated about whether or not to even post it, but I'm honestly curious about your response.

 

I've discussed polygamy/polyamory with friends before, and the conversation usually comes around to this: Only someone who has low self-esteem or a low concept of "self" could possibly be in that type of relationship. The people in poly relationships don't feel they are "worthy" of deserving monogamous love from someone. That's the only explanation for why they would endure that type of emotional abuse.

 

Not saying that I agree (the people on the TLC show Sister Wives seem rather secure in who they are), so I'm wondering how you would respond to that sort of assessment?

I mentioned already that I don't like being expected to be the be-all of emotional support for another person. That's a problem in the modern conception of marriage not necessarily tied to monogamy per se, as once upon a time romance and friendship weren't wrapped up in marriage the way they are now.

 

However, my main objection to that argument is that I consciously choose this type of relationship. It matches my ideals. I don't believe love is a zero sum game in romantic relationships any more than it is in parent-child or sibling relationships.

[Renee in NC]

IME, there tends to be more substance abuse in "the lifestyle" community (swingers) 

 

I just wanted to quote this one bit.  You keep mentioning "the lifestyle" in regards to swingers (who are not poly.)  "The lifestyle" relates to the "kink" lifestyle, which often includes polyamory, but not necessarily swingers.  Not all swingers are in the lifestyle, and those in the lifestyle are not all swingers.

 

(I have a couple of friends truly, "in the lifestyle.")

[Ravin]

Ok. I lied. I have another one.

 

Are there "support groups" for poly folks? Or do you tend to remain... under the radar (for lack of better words)? I mean, as Homeschoolers we have a lot of support out there. Does that type of thing exist in the poly world?

There are. I used to subscribe to a magazine. Now I just read a few blogs.

[Ravin]

I am curious how it would work if, say, you and GF's relationship fell apart but her relationship with the DH was fine... How does divorce/breaking up work if everyone is not at the same place in the relationship? Or what if you wanted to divorce DH but wanted to stay with GF and he also wanted to stay with GF? Etc. Divorce/breaking up is so difficult normally. I imagine it must be very hard when 3 people need to be considered.

DH is the glue, the point of the V. GF and I might stay on good terms and all, but if one of us called it quits with him, we'd no longer have relationship glue and would go separate ways.

[Ravin]

Thanks for starting this, OP!

 

Do you feel like other people talk about your sex life a lot? Irl, not on a thread I mean. And does it bother you? I ask because I have myself been sort of appalled at how loosey goosey people can be with speculation once they find out you have an alternative arrangement, or are even open to one.

 

How do you broach polyamory with prospective partners? Are there some key words to use, or do you just start out with a poly "pool" from the get go, or what?

 

 

I think that from the outside, often people see polyamory as being advantageous for men (especially straight-identifying men) and leaving women at a pointed DISadvantage. Can you speak to that at all? Obviously the gender-sex continuum comes in to play big time, but just in General, I think people largely see it as a boon to men and a bummer for women.

I don't think people talk about my sex life, no.

 

In polyamory, women I think tend to have the advantage. The dynamics tend to be more feminist-minded/egalitarian, and not as numerous in the self selected pool of people interested in conscious non-monogamous commitment. That lets them be choosy in the poly dating scene. These dynamics are very different from faith-based polygamy, which tends to be rooted in patriarchy.

[Big Buckin' Longhorn]

Ravin, I'm so glad we are able to have this thread. I remember a few years (?) ago when you tried to have this same type of thread (in response to some questions) and it crashed and burned pretty spectacularly. Looks like the WTM has come a long way.

[Joanne]

I just wanted to quote this one bit.  You keep mentioning "the lifestyle" in regards to swingers (who are not poly.)  "The lifestyle" relates to the "kink" lifestyle, which often includes polyamory, but not necessarily swingers.  Not all swingers are in the lifestyle, and those in the lifestyle are not all swingers.

 

(I have a couple of friends truly, "in the lifestyle.")

 

 

That is not my understanding at all, but perhaps it is a regional difference in vocabulary?

 

Here "in the lifestyle" refers to people interested in swapping, sex parties, and being sexually with other couples.

[JadeOrchidSong]

Here "in the lifestyle" refers to people interested in swapping, sex parties, and being sexually with other couples.

.

 

Why do people live this way? To be different? To meet certain desires? What are the benefits and consequences?

[Ravin]

That is not my understanding at all, but perhaps it is a regional difference in vocabulary?

 

Here "in the lifestyle" refers to people interested in swapping, sex parties, and being sexually with other couples.

FWIW, friends of mine in the BDSM community refer to it as "the lifestyle." I've also heard it used for swingers. I suspect this is because they are both lifestyle subcultures. As is polyamory.

[Ravin]

Is this life style considered wrong?

That depends on who you ask. I've always felt it was kind of shallow, but has it's place as fun. There is a certain amount of common ethic of conscious, consensual non-monogamy and sexual expression that runs through polyamory, the swinger lifestyle, and kink communities, and they often overlap.

[Mom in High Heels]

This is an amazing thread.  All of my questions have been asked, but I wanted to say thank you for starting this thread and being so honest.

[Kate in Arabia]

I mentioned already that I don't like being expected to be the be-all of emotional support for another person. That's a problem in the modern conception of marriage not necessarily tied to monogamy per se, as once upon a time romance and friendship weren't wrapped up in marriage the way they are now.

 

I would expand on this slightly, to say that I think that the "romance/friendship" marriage is more a modern, culture-specific concept.  Perhaps an offshoot of arranged marriage but overall in the cultural landscape in general here, talking about marriages with local women does not usually involve a lot of romance or the level of togetherness that we expect in our own culture.  I think there are some "outsiders" who look down on that -- as if there is no love nor success in that kind of marriage -- but my hard-earned experience (having worked through plenty of preconceptions and misconceptions in my own mind on this over the years) is that there is no one meaning of "success" or road to happiness vis a vis marriage.

 

[Heather in Neverland]

I would expand on this slightly, to say that I think that the "romance/friendship" marriage is more a modern, culture-specific concept. Perhaps an offshoot of arranged marriage but overall in the cultural landscape in general here, talking about marriages with local women does not usually involve a lot of romance or the level of togetherness that we expect in our own culture. I think there are some "outsiders" who look down on that -- as if there is no love nor success in that kind of marriage -- but my hard-earned experience (having worked through plenty of preconceptions and misconceptions in my own mind on this over the years) is that there is no one meaning of "success" or road to happiness vis a vis marriage.

 

This is so true. The way the communities here approach marriage is far different than in my experience in the states. There is a lot more parental influence in the choice of mate, a lot more practicality I guess (I can't think of a better word right now) and a lot less "drama."

 

Yet they still have very successful marriages in terms of commitment, child-rearing, partnership, etc.

 

Neither dh or I are very emotionally effusive people so grand romantic gestures are not our style. We are rather practical people.

 

I totally understand the idea of not wanting be someone's sole source of emotional support. As a not-very-emotional introvert, that would drain me.

[Hoot]

This info was mentioned by OP in her other post. A PP also recalled it.

 

 

contessa -  she brought it up in another post a couple of months ago.

 

 

Oh ok.  Thanks for the info.  I thought maybe I was going crazy and had missed it somewhere.  :)  Thank you again, OP, for being so open to questions. 

[Hoot]

No, Big Love was on HBO. There was a reality show on Showtime, at least 2 seasons long but I don't remember what it was called. I read a review of it on a poly blog.

 

Oops, you're right.  My mistake. 

[Hoot]

I think that from the outside, often people see polyamory as being advantageous for men (especially straight-identifying men) and leaving women at a pointed DISadvantage. Can you speak to that at all? Obviously the gender-sex continuum comes in to play big time, but just in General, I think people largely see it as a boon to men and a bummer for women.

 

I think that the "boon to men and a bummer for women" would apply more to polygamy when it is used as a way to collect and control the women.  Obviously, not all polygamous families are like this, I'm thinking more along the lines of those from the compounds.  Polyamory, as the OP describes it, seems like it would actually be advantageous to all involved, particularly if any or all of the partners identified as bi-sexual.

[JadeOrchidSong]

That depends on who you ask. I've always felt it was kind of shallow, but has it's place as fun. There is a certain amount of common ethic of conscious, consensual non-monogamy and sexual expression that runs through polyamory, the swinger lifestyle, and kink communities, and they often overlap.

Is there long-term study/ research done about its psychological, physical, and social effects on the parties involved, their childen, its own community, and the larger communities such as the society?

 

And when is fun considered immoral and inappropriate in these lifestyles by those involved in it? Or the word "inappropriate" does not apply at all?

[Ipsey]

Is there long-term study/ research done about its psychological, physical, and social effects on the parties involved, their childen, its own community, and the larger communities such as the society?

 

And when is fun considered immoral and inappropriate in these lifestyles by those involved in it? Or the word "inappropriate" does not apply at all?

 

I've had a number of students from polygamous families. Most said they really loved their "extra" moms, but that they wouldn't want to marry plural themselves (men nor women).

 

I imagine that at the very least "inappropriate" would be anything done without consent of all adult parties involved "appropriate" would be anything that all adult parties agree to without coercion.  Beyond that, it's probably at the discretion of those participating.

 

But, I'm just pulling that from my ear because it seems reasonable. 

[Kate in Arabia]

I've had a number of students from polygamous families. Most said they really loved their "extra" moms, but that they wouldn't want to marry plural themselves (men nor women).

 

FWIW, they did a study here and as I recall the takeaway for the majority of the kids was negative.  They generally felt that the father didn't have enough time for all the kids, there was sibling rivalry between different mothers' kids, etc.  But again, that is in one specific geographic area -- the norm here is for there to be completely separate households for each woman.  I'll see if I can find the published report, if interested.  I don't know that it is particularly germaine to the American experience with polygamy; from what little I have read or heard about it there is much more integration of the families involved.

 

[Ravin]

Is there long-term study/ research done about its psychological, physical, and social effects on the parties involved, their childen, its own community, and the larger communities such as the society?

 

And when is fun considered immoral and inappropriate in these lifestyles by those involved in it? Or the word "inappropriate" does not apply at all?

Research? Not that I know of.

 

As for the "when is fun inappropriate" question, the answer is basically that it's inappropriate outside agreed upon boundaries and comfort zones of partners. Something like the golden rule or the wiccan rede ("An it harm none, do as he will") encapsulates it well.

 

It's not appropriate to disregard the feelings of committed partners in pursuit of new relationships.

[JadeOrchidSong]

I've had a number of students from polygamous families. Most said they really loved their "extra" moms, but that they wouldn't want to marry plural themselves (men nor women).

 

.

Do you know why they wouldn't want to marry plural themselves? Did they give you a reason? This is polygamous children, not children of polyamorists. I wonder more about what the latter think.

[athomeontheprairie]

My therapist asked those questions too. DH sees marriage as a lifetime commitment. He's also big on each of us doing what we must to lead fulfilling lives. So he's not thrilled, but he's accepted it. GF just thinks I'm weird, but that's nothing new. Much like the reaction of the rest of my family.

I don't understand? What does gender transition mean?

[plansrme]

Why did you and your husband get married if you did not intend to be monogamous? What is the point of marriage?

[JustEm]

Do you have any say in when your dh's relationship with gf ends? As in, if for some reason you were no longer comfortable with her for any reason(she starts treating your kids or you poorly, or something else for example) would your change of feelings about the arrangement trump dh's feelings for her.

[Ravin]

Why did you and your husband get married if you did not intend to be monogamous? What is the point of marriage?

I've gotten that question a lot from many people over the years. I find out helps to reframe it:

 

Is marriage just about sex? Is that the only reason you are married?

 

Marriage is a complex legal and personal relationship. Sexual intimacy is just one aspect of that relationship. Just as a particular couple may negotiate household chores and personal space in different ways, or make prenuptial agreements to keep finances and property separate, or decide not to have children though having kids an important aspect of marriage for most, and still want to be married, we do not bind ourselves to monogamy and foreclose other intimate relationships, but still want to be married.

[Ravin]

I don't understand? What does gender transition mean?

I am transgender and in the process of transitioning from female to male. My gender status, however, has nothing to do with being polyamorous.

[Ipsey]

Do you know why they wouldn't want to marry plural themselves? Did they give you a reason? This is polygamous children, not children of polyamorists. I wonder more about what the latter think.

 

All of these students came from Muslim backgrounds, so I'm sure that had some influence.

 

The men, in general, said it would be too expensive to maintain their different wives and children at the same standard, also most said, with a grin, that one woman was hard enough to keep up with/please.

 

The women typically said they didn't want to share their husbands. Don't blame 'em a bit.

[Ravin]

What is BDSM? (And do I really want to know?)

Bondage/Discipline and Sado-masochism.

[mommymilkies]

Do you know why they wouldn't want to marry plural themselves? Did they give you a reason? This is polygamous children, not children of polyamorists. I wonder more about what the latter think.

 

Ok, I see polygamy in the US and polygamy in other areas and polyamory as COMPLETELY different subjects.  For polygamous children, the show Sister Wives touched on this with interviews with the kids. 

What is BDSM? (And do I really want to know?)

It depends.  You may want to know.  :tongue_smilie:

[Ravin]

Do you know why they wouldn't want to marry plural themselves? Did they give you a reason? This is polygamous children, not children of polyamorists. I wonder more about what the latter think.

Plural relationships, whether polyamorous or traditional polygamy, are not everyone's cup of tea, obviously. They take work, just as monogamous/binary relationships do. And that work can be more complex in some ways, just as the relationships are. In most societies where polygamy is sanctioned/tolerated, it is only engaged in by a minority of people, whether they consider it desirable/ideal or not. When it becomes entirely a thing of adult choice and consent, of course most people won't choose it because it doesn't suit them. Some will, however.

[mommymilkies]

Uh, no. Just no.

 

I'm more of a "love me tender" type. (And now I have Elvis going through my head...LOL)

:lol:

[mirth]

Did you have a dog before GF moved in?  If so, how has the pet adjusted to having another female boss around?  (Also, if so, is the dog male or female?)

 

If GF became severely injured or disabled and she needed long term care (like in Ethan Frome), would you consider being her main ltc provider?

 

Is the word concubine used very much by polyamorists to describe multiple female households? (eta:  I realize there is no reason to limit this to female)

 

Thank you!

[Magnolia Rain]

How will your gender transition affect your DH if he identifies as heterosexual? Will you still maintain an intimate relationship or will that change? Will that open up an intimate relationship with GF since she also identifies as heterosexual?

 

I hope these aren't ignorant or insensitive questions to ask. You've been so open in your answers to those of us who know very little about other relationship types.