Suggestions for 8th grader brand new to Latin?

[cbalogh]

We are just finishing up our first year of homeschooling and as I have been researching our Latin options for weeks now, I think I've read every post on Latin here and on the Sonlight forums, too. :willy_nilly:

 

As I read on TWTM forums, we are years behind everyone who started when their children were very young.  If anyone had a late start like us, what would you recommend for a child on the college prep path?

 

We struggled to not have our school day go too long last year so I need something that isn't extremely time intensive.  And I definitely will get any DVD that helps teach whatever curriculum we choose.  I've looked at Latin Alive, but forgive me, the teacher seems unfriendly.  I looked at Visual Latin and the teacher seems almost too 'loosey goosey'.  I liked the First Form Latin teacher.    I've read that we should be concentrating on learning grammar first, then translating.

 

Basically, I've stuffed my head with a lot of knowledge, but I need wisdom.  :confused1:

 

What would a first time older student enjoy that is a solid program that has either a thorough teacher's manual or a DVD to teach it?

 

Thanks for your help!

 

Cynthia

[G5052]

We are just finishing up our first year of homeschooling and as I have been researching our Latin options for weeks now, I think I've read every post on Latin here and on the Sonlight forums, too. :willy_nilly:

 

 

You aren't starting late at all.  My oldest started in 7th grade, and is taking AP Latin in 11th.  He just won his fourth medal on the National Latin Exam.

 

You don't say what grammar you've done before, but it is possible to learn the grammar with the Latin, especially with an older student.  If you do that, you do need a program that does that explicitly.  Both Latin Alive and First Form do a good job with that.  In terms of content, both are excellent, so if those are your two main choices I'd go with which you like in terms of layout and the DVD lessons.  

 

I taught locally with the Henle books (which assume that you know English grammar when they introduce Latin grammar BTW), and my vote is for Latin Alive because it follows the National Latin Exam syllabus.  My youngest and I watched the first level of DVDs last summer to keep our Latin skills up, and I agree that we weren't super fond of the teacher, but what she teaches is spot on.  Latin Alive compares favorably with Wheelock's, which I would find hard to teach on my own because it assumes a formally-trained Latin teacher (which I am not).  I did OK with Henle because I'm a grammar geek, but it would be a tough go without that.

[wapiti]

I would do GSWL, then on to a high school level text (e.g., Henle, Latin for the New Millenium)

[cbalogh]

 

You don't say what grammar you've done before, but it is possible to learn the grammar with the Latin, especially with an older student.  

 

 

 

Thanks for the recommendation.  We've done MCT's Grammar Town and Character Quality Language Arts Green Level B (for middle school) so we've definitely had the basics.   That's good to know that the foundation needs to be in place with some curricula.

 

Cynthia

[laughing lioness]

My 11 and 14 yo and I are doing FFL now and really enjoying it. My plan is to get through FFL2 by fall (FFL 1 is review for ds 14). It's my 2nd time through and it's actually fun. The kids are totally rocking it. The DVD's are very good - engaging and easy, simple explanation!

[TKDmom]

I really like First Form Latin for my 7th grader. She doesn't love it  ;) but I've realized she dislikes just about any program that isn't an art or literature program. She's doing well with it, and I love the grammar first aspect. It makes it so much easier to understand the language.

[arcara]

Another vote for First Form. It's clear, it has great DVD lessons, and it has plenty of practice and review. I have an 8th grader finishing Second Form, a 5th grader finishing First Form, and a 3rd grader half way through First Form. They all learn independently with the DVDs and text and have been very successful. I check their written work and check them orally on vocabulary and grammar questions weekly.

[Haiku]

Getting Started With Latin followed up by Latin Book One, available free in its entirety (with answers) on the Latin Book One Yahoo group. There is also Latin Book Two. We will follow that up with Latin Via Ovid. LBO and LBT are high school Latin courses. LVO is an introductory college-level course.

[SilverMoon]

  I've looked at Latin Alive, but forgive me, the teacher seems unfriendly. 

I read that to my DD/8th who's been using Latin Alive for some time now. She raised an eyebrow and said, "She's not really unfriendly, but she likes to stare you in the eye to make sure you're getting this. She is funny, and throws all kinds of interesting information out during the lessons. It's interesting enough to be fun all by itself. P.S. When you pause the DVD to write she makes really funny faces."

 

From my perspective, it's very easy to use, effective, parent-friendly, kid-friendly, and CAP offers free extras and help. I couldn't be more pleased. :)

[armom]

Did you ever decide?  I am kinda of in the same boat.  I am trying to decide which Latin program to use with my kids.  I am concerned about First Form since I have read several places that it is boring.  

[Dolphin]

Just another thing to throw out, instead of DVD's have you thought of an online class? My upcoming 7th grader is doing High School Form Latin with MP online in the fall. It takes them through 1st and 2nd form. I wrote to Mr. Piland and explained our goals, grammar and Latin experience and he recommended where to start and a path through 12th grade that would get the AP in. He is really very helpful. I have heard really good things about Lukion (sp?) as well.

[Murrayshire]

Following...... Thinking of starting Latin for 9th grade.

[Momof3littles]

I have no advice, but have had a copy of GSWL for ages, and have finally started working through it on my own.  I am only about 1/3 of the way through, but I think I'm going to use it as a gentle introduction for my kids (10 and 7 yo).  I haven't had Latin since 7th grade, so I need to start from scratch for myself.  I don't know that it would be worthwhile for an older child, except maybe as a way to dip your toes in?

 

eta: I can't deal with formally teaching "y'all."  At all.  So we will just call it 2nd person plural or you plural.

[Reefgazer]

It's never to late to start Latin!  Another vote for First Form Latin - the MP Latin program is overall terrific!  However, given your daughter is in 8th grade, you may want to consider popping her into Henle I and just taking it at a slower pace until you hit 9th grade.  But I think the Form series is so good, if I wanted to get her further a bit faster, I'd be inclined to work the Form Series at a slightly accelerated pace.  Best of all, if you need it, MP has online classes for both the Form series and for Henle.  Whichever option you choose, I think learning a language is easier if you front-load the grammar and learn that first, and I think that is especially true with Latin.

[Novafan]

If you're willing to do an online class, Veritas Press's Latin Transition 1.  I kept buying DIY Latin programs and not getting them done as I was intimidated by doing it alone.   I have a 13 and 11 year old in VP's Latin Transition 1 and it's been a wonderful experience. 

[cbalogh]

Did you ever decide?  I am kinda of in the same boat.  I am trying to decide which Latin program to use with my kids.  I am concerned about First Form since I have read several places that it is boring.  

 

Okay, I did decide.  And because I've just majorly bucked the tide of everything that was recommended, I feel I need to explain.

 

I chose Visual Latin.  Yup, the dorky guy who is the opposite of my type A personality.  The First Form Latin, Latin Alive and Getting Started with Latin and Book One were all awesome, academic choices-- not a thing in the world could I find wrong with them, except my DD12 (who wanted to go ahead and start Latin early using the sample 7 lessons from Visual Latin) didn't laugh out loud and ask to do Latin with them.  She had asked to do Latin over the summer with Visual Latin.    What I am going to do is what Rainbow Resource suggests to make Visual Latin a full high school foreign language credit is to add Latina Lingua's Pars I.

 

That's the short answer.  For those who have time, here's the long answer.  

 

I wasn't thinking about adding a foreign language in 8th grade, initially, but then thought it would be good to get it out of the way while dd was taking easier classes.  When asked which language she would like, dd wanted Latin because of Percy Jackson.  When I asked her why she wanted to learn Latin she said that she wanted to read it.  Ultimately, that's why I chose Visual Latin.  I understand keenly that academically it makes more sense to front-end the study of grammar but if our goal isn't to take Latin exams but just to be able to read it, the curricula mentioned above are harder and more time-consuming than we need.  Because of my type A personality, we schooled til 5 and 6pm last year as I tried to pack everything in and do 100% on everything, but now I see that I need to pick and choose and have a shorter day for things to soak in.  I can't pick a teacher-intensive curricula for everything-- just like I don't want to pick a computer-based or DVD curricula for everything.  Also, some subjects need to be college-prep and for my dd, we are needing to add a challenging math program this year.  With Art of Problem Solving, she will have 90 min of math work each day.  With Michael Clay Thompson's language arts plus IEW, she's going to have a lot of vocab and writing.  Apologia's Physical Science is college prep science.  Sonlight's history is all socratic method.  So, when it came down to foreign language electives, I chose what DD liked, what made her laugh and what she asked to do over the summer.  By the time we are on the 18th lesson, we'll add in her reading (not translating) the Latina Lingua and we will have accomplished what she asked to do.  When I put it on her transcript, I won't have to specify which curricula I used, it will just say "Latin I, Latin II, etc."  With MCT's vocab focusing on Latin stems and roots, I think she will have all the benefits she needs of Latin.  

 

Kind of a side point, I was required to take 3 semesters of Latin in college, I made 2 Bs and a C.  I'm a stay at home mom who used to practice law, so obviously I made well enough on the LSAT to go to law school but the latin didn't really help me on the LSAT.  And looking at FFLatin, Latin Alive, Henle, etc., I definitely do not remember any Latin sufficient to be able to teach it to DD.  Soooooo, if it wasn't a big help to me on the LSAT and I don't remember much of it, if any, I figured I should have DD study it for the reasons she wanted to study it since it may not 'stick' in the long term anyway.

 

Thank you so much for everyone's input.  I read and thought about every point that was made.   Visual Latin fit the bill because of my not having to teach it, DD liked it and I could add in the Latina Lingua (lesson plans are on the VL website) to make it challenging enough for high school credits.  

 

I was just going to slink quietly away after making my decision because folks on the WTM forums are so in favor of academic rigor and excellence that I was a little embarrassed to be taking what appears to be an easier road, but armom (see quote above) called me out on what my decision was so here it is.  I'm not supermom and I can't have great academic rigor and hands-on teaching in every subject, so that's what swayed the final decision.   :)

 

Blessings,

 

Cynthia

[MiMi 4under3]

I would do GSWL, then on to a high school level text (e.g., Henle, Latin for the New Millenium)

 

   :iagree:

 

GSWL is simple, open and go, and can be used independently. An 8th grader can easily do more than one lesson per day, especially in the earlier lessons, or when the lesson is only a new vocabulary word.  So the 134 lessons shouldn't take long at all!

 

ETA:  read through all the posts and saw you already made a decision.  Good luck!  :)

[jg_puppy]

I am so glad that you posted what you decided to use. I am thinking about using Visual Latin with my daughter next year. 

[AMJ]

If you're willing to do an online class, Veritas Press's Latin Transition 1.  I kept buying DIY Latin programs and not getting them done as I was intimidated by doing it alone.   I have a 13 and 11 year old in VP's Latin Transition 1 and it's been a wonderful experience. 

 

Thank you for this.  I'm following to glean stuff, too.

 

I have almost-10/4th grade going into 5th, and almost 13/6th grade going into 7th.  I bought the Big Book of Lively Latin I and tried to get started, but our routines quickly got interrupted substantially by life events.  As we scrambled to rebuild our daily schedule I picked up Getting Started With Latin, and we went with that for a bit.  Life interrupted to a greater degree, so Latin is one of the many electives we have now put on official hold (meaning the kids know I don't expect them to do any) until June.

 

With the interruptions to our schedule (in our first year homeschooling, as we tried to get the hang of it all) my kids rapidly became more self-sufficient on many subjects.  As long as they had the materials, didn't need explanations from me, and a list of what was to be covered they covered most things quite well.

 

This summer we are going to change things out (had planned on homeschooling year round with frequent breaks), and have an academically light couple of months so we can get back to field trips, promised mall runs, piano, art, and other electives we had to drop for a spell.  We are mainly going to play our way through summer homeschool, so we can rebuild our schedule for the fall and shift back into a more scholarly approach again then.

 

That said, I will be going over what we have in Latin with my girls, and looking at other study options for that subject.  We will decide whether to keep what we have for a while, or try a different approach.  BBLL needs teacher involvement and takes a bit to get the momentum going, I think (please keep in mind we had only barely started before life derailed our efforts).  GSWL is a lighter, easier start that took the pressure of expectations off for a bit.  We might choose to stay with these for a while, or get something online or on DVD (eldest DD is strongly visually oriented).

[AMJ]

I was just going to slink quietly away after making my decision because folks on the WTM forums are so in favor of academic rigor and excellence that I was a little embarrassed to be taking what appears to be an easier road, but armom (see quote above) called me out on what my decision was so here it is.  I'm not supermom and I can't have great academic rigor and hands-on teaching in every subject, so that's what swayed the final decision.   :)

 

In our first few months of "full-on" homeschool I nearly scared my kids and myself out of homeschooling entirely, by taking on too much and demanding too much rigor right away (even with "easing" into it!).  I know now that trying to do SWB-style classical ed to the full extent described in the book is foolish when first starting after a major switch, and it might be too much for us personally for the long haul.  It just doesn't match the way one or both of my kids learn.  I think fewer people than you realize in these forums actually find that that level of academic rigor and breadth of study works well for their whole family.

 

The biggest advantage, IMO, of homeschooling is the ability to change curicula, materials, approach, what-have-you as needed to best meet the needs of you and your kids.  Don't skulk away in embarrassment -- most of us are right there with ya!

 

TWTM (book and forums) is all a guidebook, not a carved-in-stone requirement.  Use what works and change out what doesn't.

[armom]

Okay, I did decide.  And because I've just majorly bucked the tide of everything that was recommended, I feel I need to explain.

 

I chose Visual Latin.  Yup, the dorky guy who is the opposite of my type A personality.  The First Form Latin, Latin Alive and Getting Started with Latin and Book One were all awesome, academic choices-- not a thing in the world could I find wrong with them, except my DD12 (who wanted to go ahead and start Latin early using the sample 7 lessons from Visual Latin) didn't laugh out loud and ask to do Latin with them.  She had asked to do Latin over the summer with Visual Latin.    What I am going to do is what Rainbow Resource suggests to make Visual Latin a full high school foreign language credit is to add Latina Lingua's Pars I.

 

That's the short answer.  For those who have time, here's the long answer.  

 

I wasn't thinking about adding a foreign language in 8th grade, initially, but then thought it would be good to get it out of the way while dd was taking easier classes.  When asked which language she would like, dd wanted Latin because of Percy Jackson.  When I asked her why she wanted to learn Latin she said that she wanted to read it.  Ultimately, that's why I chose Visual Latin.  I understand keenly that academically it makes more sense to front-end the study of grammar but if our goal isn't to take Latin exams but just to be able to read it, the curricula mentioned above are harder and more time-consuming than we need.  Because of my type A personality, we schooled til 5 and 6pm last year as I tried to pack everything in and do 100% on everything, but now I see that I need to pick and choose and have a shorter day for things to soak in.  I can't pick a teacher-intensive curricula for everything-- just like I don't want to pick a computer-based or DVD curricula for everything.  Also, some subjects need to be college-prep and for my dd, we are needing to add a challenging math program this year.  With Art of Problem Solving, she will have 90 min of math work each day.  With Michael Clay Thompson's language arts plus IEW, she's going to have a lot of vocab and writing.  Apologia's Physical Science is college prep science.  Sonlight's history is all socratic method.  So, when it came down to foreign language electives, I chose what DD liked, what made her laugh and what she asked to do over the summer.  By the time we are on the 18th lesson, we'll add in her reading (not translating) the Latina Lingua and we will have accomplished what she asked to do.  When I put it on her transcript, I won't have to specify which curricula I used, it will just say "Latin I, Latin II, etc."  With MCT's vocab focusing on Latin stems and roots, I think she will have all the benefits she needs of Latin.  

 

Kind of a side point, I was required to take 3 semesters of Latin in college, I made 2 Bs and a C.  I'm a stay at home mom who used to practice law, so obviously I made well enough on the LSAT to go to law school but the latin didn't really help me on the LSAT.  And looking at FFLatin, Latin Alive, Henle, etc., I definitely do not remember any Latin sufficient to be able to teach it to DD.  Soooooo, if it wasn't a big help to me on the LSAT and I don't remember much of it, if any, I figured I should have DD study it for the reasons she wanted to study it since it may not 'stick' in the long term anyway.

 

Thank you so much for everyone's input.  I read and thought about every point that was made.   Visual Latin fit the bill because of my not having to teach it, DD liked it and I could add in the Latina Lingua (lesson plans are on the VL website) to make it challenging enough for high school credits.  

 

I was just going to slink quietly away after making my decision because folks on the WTM forums are so in favor of academic rigor and excellence that I was a little embarrassed to be taking what appears to be an easier road, but armom (see quote above) called me out on what my decision was so here it is.  I'm not supermom and I can't have great academic rigor and hands-on teaching in every subject, so that's what swayed the final decision.   :)

 

Blessings,

 

Cynthia

Thank you for the response.  I am so torn on which program to use at our house.  My kids our not willing to use something rigorous.  I have to admit my kids our average students that are into a extremely rigorous workload.  We use SL and already have a heavy load.  IMO

[nansk]

 

 

I am so torn on which program to use at our house.  My kids our not willing to use something rigorous.

Just to put another suggestion out there, I am (slowly) working through Latina Ponti by Elisabeth Harvey. She wrote this as a gentle intro to Latin for middle schoolers. I am self-studying, but Beth conducts an online course using this book. Here is a

.

[Aludlam]

If you're willing to do an online class, Veritas Press's Latin Transition 1.  I kept buying DIY Latin programs and not getting them done as I was intimidated by doing it alone.   I have a 13 and 11 year old in VP's Latin Transition 1 and it's been a wonderful experience. 

 

I'm looking at this right now.  Which teacher are you using?

 

Angela

[TKDmom]

Okay, I did decide.  And because I've just majorly bucked the tide of everything that was recommended, I feel I need to explain.

 

I chose Visual Latin.  Yup, the dorky guy who is the opposite of my type A personality.  The First Form Latin, Latin Alive and Getting Started with Latin and Book One were all awesome, academic choices-- not a thing in the world could I find wrong with them, except my DD12 (who wanted to go ahead and start Latin early using the sample 7 lessons from Visual Latin) didn't laugh out loud and ask to do Latin with them.  She had asked to do Latin over the summer with Visual Latin.    What I am going to do is what Rainbow Resource suggests to make Visual Latin a full high school foreign language credit is to add Latina Lingua's Pars I.

 

 

 

I was just talking with a lady the other day about Latin programs (she was buying a couple of mine for supplements ;) ).  She uses VL, and she had nothing but praise for it. I was almost convinced to try yet another Latin program. :P

 

I hope it is a great fit for you!

[nansk]

My dd enjoys goofyness and humour during school time. So I feel she will enjoy the Visual Latin videos. But I have read about several errors in the translations, and that keeps me from giving it a try.

 

Does anyone know of these errors and whether the videos/worksheets have been updated to correct them?

[cbalogh]

I have found the mistakes but not the corrections. I don't regret choosing the curriculum --my solution is to have my dd go through her notes/text and find proof of the right answer.

[Reefgazer]

No need to slink away; you made the choice best for you.  :)  And the best part is, if you want to change it later, you can!  Good luck with Latin, we're having a ball with it!

Okay, I did decide.  And because I've just majorly bucked the tide of everything that was recommended, I feel I need to explain.

 

I chose Visual Latin.  Yup, the dorky guy who is the opposite of my type A personality.  The First Form Latin, Latin Alive and Getting Started with Latin and Book One were all awesome, academic choices-- not a thing in the world could I find wrong with them, except my DD12 (who wanted to go ahead and start Latin early using the sample 7 lessons from Visual Latin) didn't laugh out loud and ask to do Latin with them.  She had asked to do Latin over the summer with Visual Latin.    What I am going to do is what Rainbow Resource suggests to make Visual Latin a full high school foreign language credit is to add Latina Lingua's Pars I.

 

That's the short answer.  For those who have time, here's the long answer.  

 

I wasn't thinking about adding a foreign language in 8th grade, initially, but then thought it would be good to get it out of the way while dd was taking easier classes.  When asked which language she would like, dd wanted Latin because of Percy Jackson.  When I asked her why she wanted to learn Latin she said that she wanted to read it.  Ultimately, that's why I chose Visual Latin.  I understand keenly that academically it makes more sense to front-end the study of grammar but if our goal isn't to take Latin exams but just to be able to read it, the curricula mentioned above are harder and more time-consuming than we need.  Because of my type A personality, we schooled til 5 and 6pm last year as I tried to pack everything in and do 100% on everything, but now I see that I need to pick and choose and have a shorter day for things to soak in.  I can't pick a teacher-intensive curricula for everything-- just like I don't want to pick a computer-based or DVD curricula for everything.  Also, some subjects need to be college-prep and for my dd, we are needing to add a challenging math program this year.  With Art of Problem Solving, she will have 90 min of math work each day.  With Michael Clay Thompson's language arts plus IEW, she's going to have a lot of vocab and writing.  Apologia's Physical Science is college prep science.  Sonlight's history is all socratic method.  So, when it came down to foreign language electives, I chose what DD liked, what made her laugh and what she asked to do over the summer.  By the time we are on the 18th lesson, we'll add in her reading (not translating) the Latina Lingua and we will have accomplished what she asked to do.  When I put it on her transcript, I won't have to specify which curricula I used, it will just say "Latin I, Latin II, etc."  With MCT's vocab focusing on Latin stems and roots, I think she will have all the benefits she needs of Latin.  

 

Kind of a side point, I was required to take 3 semesters of Latin in college, I made 2 Bs and a C.  I'm a stay at home mom who used to practice law, so obviously I made well enough on the LSAT to go to law school but the latin didn't really help me on the LSAT.  And looking at FFLatin, Latin Alive, Henle, etc., I definitely do not remember any Latin sufficient to be able to teach it to DD.  Soooooo, if it wasn't a big help to me on the LSAT and I don't remember much of it, if any, I figured I should have DD study it for the reasons she wanted to study it since it may not 'stick' in the long term anyway.

 

Thank you so much for everyone's input.  I read and thought about every point that was made.   Visual Latin fit the bill because of my not having to teach it, DD liked it and I could add in the Latina Lingua (lesson plans are on the VL website) to make it challenging enough for high school credits.  

 

I was just going to slink quietly away after making my decision because folks on the WTM forums are so in favor of academic rigor and excellence that I was a little embarrassed to be taking what appears to be an easier road, but armom (see quote above) called me out on what my decision was so here it is.  I'm not supermom and I can't have great academic rigor and hands-on teaching in every subject, so that's what swayed the final decision.   :)

 

Blessings,

 

Cynthia

 

[happypamama]

I would do GSWL, then on to a high school level text (e.g., Henle, Latin for the New Millenium)

That's what I would do as well, because GSWL is so user-friendly and thorough. An eighth grader can go through it quickly if desired, and it's very easy for a parent to learn the basics of Latin with it.