do you ever get to the point where feel you can't go on.

[kiwik]

And what do you do? I don't normally post here because supposedly the problem my son has is fixable. The only problem is it isn't getting better.

 

Supposedly he has encopresis which we have been working on for 2.5 years. It did get steadily better for a year but I think the lack of school support after the first year made it worse again. I am a solo working mother with 2 boys and limited family support. I think 95% of our discipline problems stem from his lying about or avoiding changing his clothes or following the toileting regime. At least 2/3 of the seemingly enless washing is his plus probably 15% of our grocery budget goes towards it. It is affecting my younger child and quite frankly is making me into the kind of mother I never wanted to be.

 

He is also the kind of child who is unaware of others boundries, crashes into things (he has good co-ordination but no awareness or brakes), needs to be told everything repeatedly and even then often get hopelessly sidetracked. He is nearly 7 now and soon it will be a social issue. He is very (as in really really tested IQ) bright but will soon be a problem at school I think.

 

I would love to home school but I can't make it work so I don't know any ideas?

[PeterPan]

Well it's late at night, but I'll be fast.  My ds 5.5 is still wetting (and yes, even soiling) too, and yes he has sensory problems.  When they did the IQ, did they go ahead and do full evals for spectrum, adhd, etc.?  Private or through the ps?  Full or just kinda lick and promise to satisfy the law?  And have you read It's No Accident?  That book seems to think constipation is the grand cause of everything.  I keep wanting to buy it, but I'm not sure, not with the sensory stuff.  The book claims sensory doesn't cause this.  We have not yet done an OT eval for him.  Have you?

 

Btw, in my ds (who is also, from our preliminary testing, going to turn out to have a bright IQ) there seems to be an emotional element to him.  Like if something disturbs him emotionally, the next day you can be guaranteed 4 wet pairs of pants.  Maybe that would give you a lead to follow or something to journal/log to look for a pattern?  It's day before, day after kind of correlation.

 

I'm sorry you're having a hard time.  Try to be very matter of fact.  I keep him in pants at night.  Huggies makes some big enough.  Since I don't have a better solution at the moment, I buy more underwear and try to handle it matter of factly.  I'm with you though looking for the solution, if it makes you feel any better.  The emotional connection is what disrupts the idea for me that it's entirely constipation.  I'd love a pill fix like that (give him the p-glycol, it all goes away) and haven't been willing to try it. Instead I've been feeding him cans of baked beans to up his fiber.  I've been doing MtnTeaching's suggestion and having him go every 20 min, but that would be really hard to implement at school.

 

Sorry, I'm just checking and realizing some of that made no sense since your ds' problem starts with constipation.  My ds is wetting, which the book says is due to constipation.  My point is connecting the sensory and the problems, which the book claims doesn't have a connection.  And just for your trivia, when I was researching this stuff on the boards a while back, there was this funky stool you could sit at the toilet and use to perch and improve the angle and comfort.  There seemed to be feedback on the boards from kids who, ironically enough, really liked it.  You never know?

[kiwik]

We are in NZ. There is no real public testing. The IQ testing was done privately and it was done purely because what he could do at home and what the school was saying didn't match. His soiling was better that year due to some support being given at school (i think). He tested >99.9%tile. Last year he had a very unsympathetic teacher though i could never prove anything i think he thought if ds got embarassed enough he would stop doing it. I just can't get ds to understand that he has to do some of the work - i can't sit on the toilet for him and i can't be there to insist he change straight away at school.

 

I suspect he has some sensory issues and perhaps some other issues at the low level but not enough to get help for. I just know i could deal with the other stuff if he didn't fight me all the time. He has just come in to stand by me because the witch has come on on Dora Explorer (did i mention he is 7 in two weeks).

 

I think it is an emotional response and also a food response. I think he has IBS but it us affected by emotions. I used to get asthma when i was anxious at his age and i have always had erratic bowels. The difference is i run to the toilet he freezes on the spot.

[Lots of boys]

I know you mentioned you have limited resources so testing might not be an option but I would really recommend a full Neuro eval if possible. My youngest ds is almost 6 and still really struggles with toileting properly. He has been diagnosed with ASD (mild) and global low tone. He also has Apraxia which can complicate things further. My son is very sensitive - very similar to what you are describing with the Dora episode. My ds still runs from the room when a mean train comes on Thomas or the troll or witch comes on Dora.

[PeterPan]

I don't know the NZ medical care system, but surely they have a way to eval for ASD and SN???  I mean it SEEMED like a civilized place when I've looked at pictures.  If it's not, my image is shattered.

[Paige]

I feel for you. We had a similar situation. My daughter had *almost* overcome encopresis and then we did a public school trial. She regressed in 6 weeks to the point where it has taken over a year to get her back to where she was. I pulled her out after the 6 weeks, partly because she was now experiencing UTIs one after another. It wasn't really the school's fault. DD was painfully shy and refused to tell anyone her needs.

 

You may not have the option to homeschool, but hopefully the school will work with you. My DDs teacher would have done more if we had stayed but I was too worried about her kidneys at that point and there were other issues. You could try getting your DS a timed watch and letting the teachers know that he must use the restroom when it vibrates during the school day. I also recommend aggressive physical treatment. Miralax alone is not effective for many people.

 

It's not his fault. I'm sure you know this, but even if it started willfully, at this point, he can't control it. Our gastroenterologist believes that there is an underlying physical cause for most cases that is just not known. She says she sees it in adults as well. For DD, taking her off milk products, including all casein and whey, seems to be the key. It's not a cure, but she is unable to get better at all when she has dairy. DD never drank cow's milk because she couldn't tolerate it as a baby, but just the milk products in other foods were setting her off. You may think that he can control the lying and hiding, but if he's like my DD, there may be considerable anxiety and shame regarding the situation now. Even if you have been the gentlest, most compassionate parent regarding this issue, the shame and anxiety may be self imposed. I took DD to a counselor, but it made her more anxious! Still, I think it is sometimes worth trying to see if counseling can help. DD was awful about hiding things too.

 

I'm not sure what you've tried, but we let DD have special videos when sitting on the toilet, she received special candy after, we kept a chart to make sure she went every day- if she didn't have a BM within 48hrs then she had a clean out, we had to quit letting her stay overnight with grandparents who were not consistent, we quit eating at restaurants (hidden dairy), and we were faithful about giving her medication. She did not get in trouble for hiding soiled clothes. If I found it, I told her and expressed that I was sorry she felt she couldn't trust us. Good luck! Once she was 99% dairy free for about 6-8 months, we were able to let her have small treats once a week or so without relapse. We don't want to overdo it, but she seems to be ok.

[prairiewindmomma]

For me, learning to separate the frustration that comes from having to cope with behaviors and all of their aftermath from my children has been key. My children are sweet precious souls wrapped up in bodies that are wired differently.

 

No one would choose encopresis, you know?!! Or SPD! We have had toileting issues at our house. Learning to love and accept my kids just as they are has helped me have patience and learn to laugh through some of the exhausting craziness that happens here.

 

If he is 7, teach him how to do laundry. He is capable. If he has problems remembering the steps, make a photograph chart and tape it to the washer.

[kbutton]

My son had some issues with wetting, but not soiling, and it seemed to be related to his sensory issues. We could see that he needed to go, but he was sure he could wait a bit longer. He just didn't feel it the same way. I am not sure what made it go away except for maturity--it wasn't a severe issue to start with. I have no experience with soiling.

 

The crashing and such...if you don't think he can get OT, have you looked at The Out of Sync Child or other books that might help you see what sensory things would help? At least for my son, he needs heavy lifting, deep pressure, pushing/pulling. Other activities don't necessarily do much for him. A book might help you get into a routine of sensory input that could help.

 

I do think have a complete evaluation could give you a lot of potential things to try.

[Lecka]

Has he been to a gastroenterologist?  I have been hearing about this thing, where a child's (colon???? I am vague, sorry) is stretched out too much from withholding, to the point they lose the sensation of needing to poop and possibly of being able to poop.  Or they can have a mass of solid poop and then more liquid poop goes around it -- the child has no control over it.  I will see if I can find the article I saw about this.  The takeaway was -- if it has been going on a couple of years, there is a chance there is a physical problem involved. 

 

Also -- I have heard the ucanpootoo website can be good. 

 

Also -- I have heard of people who give their kids Miralax and then keep them by a toilet until they have a bm.  I have heard of people who get up 2 hours before school starts, to make sure their child has a bm before they send them to school. 

 

I hear that the pros of Miralax are -- the kid is on a schedule, you know the schedule, it does eliminate the hiding aspect.  The cons -- it is time-consuming and can be hard to get kids to cooperate. 

 

I don't know much about it, though..... Miralax is something we considered, but my son potty-trained after two months of intensive effort at age 5 (we think he had lessened bodily sensations and that is why it was hard for him to make the connection).  It is a thing, though, I am mentioning it I guess.  It is something we thought was a possible next step.  We would have needed to do a medical evaluation to rule out physical causes prior to that.  (He was not potty trained at all, he had never had anything happen on the toilet ------ but he did not have any problems with peeing and pooping and no withholding ---- he just did not seem to recognize when he was peeing or pooping and didn't seem to recognize how to control it or recognize when he needed to go, so it was a different situation with him.)

[Heathermomster]

I can feel your pain on many fronts.

 

DD was born with Hirschsprung's Disease and lost a large chunk of her large intestine when she was an infant.  As a result of the surgery, she is missing 50% of her nerves that tell her when to go plus she has permanent muscle damage.  Cincinnati Children's Hospital runs a Bowel Management Program with a staff that are excellent.  Check out their website and maybe email the director with questions.  

 

My parents divorced when I was 9 yo.  My father was horrible to us, and my eldest sibling was born severely handicapped.  My mother worked and raised us (three girls total) on her own and with minimal support.  Those were hard times and a blessing.

:grouphug:

 

 

[Lecka]

Oh -- the article was about bedwetting.

 

But if you google (why can I not link, lol, I don't know) "Steve Hodges bedwetting" it goes to an article (the NY Times is the one I saw forwarded around) about how if there is hard stool in the colon then it is going to cause a lot of havoc. 

 

I was hearing a lot about this when my son was potty training.  We didn't go to Miralax but it was like -- getting to a point where it was being mentioned, I guess. 

 

I am sorry.  The potty training was very rough on us, and also not knowing when he would poop.  Swimming was a nervous thing, which I just hated.  I took him in swim diapers, but it is hard to change an older child, etc etc etc.  I am sorry it is an ongoing problem for you guys.  And what a horrible teacher, it makes me so mad.

 

 

 

[Lecka]

Oh -- I just looked and saw It's No Accident is the Steve Hodges book.

 

Well -- I totally disagree that there is "no sensory aspect."  There is a sensory aspect for many children.  I consider my son's issues as having a sensory aspect.  He has also had a reduced sensitivity to heat and cold, and to pain.  We know this about him.  He is a lot better now at recognizing these sensations -- but it is harder for him to make the connection.  But he has made a lot of improvement, too. 

 

We did a behavioral approach with him, but we looked at lots of sensory things.  I looked into the, can't remember the name, but when kids are uncomfortable on the toilet, because they feel unsteady, and can't get comfortable?  We did think my son seemed comfortable, but I think that is a real thing, worth looking into, and other things, too.  My son is more under-responsive so I look at that direction more. 

 

So, that disappoints me, to hear that.  But I don't think it makes me doubt his whole "hard stool in the colon" thing.  I think -- just because he thinks it is the only possible cause, doesn't mean it is not a very common cause and helpful for many people. 

 

But a behavior approach worked with my son.  It is more, I think, for kids who are just not potty trained at all, don't really get that "yes, you are supposed to use the toilet!!!!" like they are content to just pee and poop wherever, they are not getting that it is a big deal and everyone else uses the toilet.  That is how I would describe my son to some extent.  Once he got the hang of everything and had some things click for him, he has done great since.  But potty training was very intense and difficult. (In other words -- he would not hide because he didn't realize he had anything to hide when he had an accident, he was not that socially aware, he was not embarassed.)

[Jean in Newcastle]

I would go to a pediatric gastro-enterologist.  They will work with you on both medication and behavioral modification.  I would esp. focus on routines for the times when he is home (evenings, weekends, vacations) to try and get things stabilized in those times that you have control.  I would get him allergy tested and tested for celiac and IBS etc. I would not make any of this the "responsibility" of a 7 year old to control.  I think it is physically out of his control and he needs medical help.  

[happycc]

My son who was dxed with pdd nos...had issues similar and had to use the bathroom constantly with horrible runs flooding the toilet. 

 

What worked for us finally was 

1) going gluten free

2) going dairy free-ie almond milk ( we avoid soy as much as we can now)

3) using Doterra's DigestZen essential oil on his belly ...we also use Balance and Frankincense essential oils (run on his feet, spine) for his behavior issues. Cypress essential oils rubbed on the belly helps with bedwetting/soiling issues. 

 

He has gone from a child who was on the potty constantly, hitting himself, lining things up constantly, hitting others, yelling and screaming and having fits to one who now sits and reads a book to himself and plays with his toys rather than throwing them. He talks to others like a normal person rather than screaming angry things at them. Different child all together. 

 

[IsabelC]

Yes. I have a 10yo who has never been 100% toilet trained, as well as an 8yo bed wetter. People laugh when I say that laundry is one of my biggest problems, but it does get you down having to do 3 loads a day every day, especially in winter and especially since our dryer gave up the ghost. When you add to that laundry all the time spent trying to persuade child to go to the toilet, trying to make him wash or shower, making him take medication he doesn't want to take, talking about the issue with child, doing the rounds of pediatrician, OT, psychologists etc it's a major time drain. 

 

Is your child on the autism spectrum? A big problem with my son has been that he didn't really care what others think, and therefore wasn't motivated by the idea that it's humiliating for other kids to know you pooped your pants. He didn't see any point in any kind of personal hygiene other than to get us off his back. We have finally started to see some improvement, and I think the main cause isn't anything we've done, but rather the fact he finally sees some value in being clean.

[kiwik]

Thanks guys. We do have another appointment at the end of the month and hopefully they will look further this time.

 

Our system is good in a lot of ways but it doesn't look for problems. Unless you are so clearly on the spectrum that anyone can see it or it is causing major problems at school they don't test. They will however recommend parenting training programmes. It is possible there is borderline aspergers (he wouldn't be the only one in the family) and i really think their are some sensory things but i am not sure there is a person who could do that kind of testing in the country let alone where i am and i couldn't afford it anyway. Our system will pay to treat stuff that is clearly there not things that i may imagine are there. On the other hand some of the things will perhaps be more obvious soon. It is odd though he is is good at sports, learnt to ride a bike without training wheels at three etc but falls off chairs and falls over his own feet. To be fair though i am pretty unaware of my body too - but i am unco-ordinated as well. I have been known to forget i was holding something and just open my hand.

 

Anyway thanks for you help. Today was sort of better and maybe we will get some help from the gastro people at the hospital in a couple of weeks.

 

Eta. He is aware of the social thing but I think he can't smell it any more and sometimes he can't feel it. He also figures that drawing attention to the problem mistakes things worse and most of all he is a 6 year old boy who can't really be expected to deal with it all by himself.

[prairiewindmomma]

For a time, the laundry was overwhelming and we went back to diapers...underwear style. Child was relieved as it was easier to cope with cleanup.

 

I think you are right in assuming he can't feel, possibly can't smell and is ashamed/afraid/overwhelmed.

 

Hugs!

[PeterPan]

Couple questions then.  What can be *done* for sensory if that's part of the issue with the toileting?  And two, is it appropriate to use some kind of motivation/reward tactic?  If it's sensory, that wouldn't make sense because they can't feel it.  If it's a social/spectrum/lack of motivation thing, then are rewards appropriate?  (stars on a chart, whatever)  I'm just pondering whether he (my ds) wets only when he's at home or also when he's with others.  Hadn't thought through it. 

[prairiewindmomma]

Here they put you on a miralax regimen and a timed potty schedule. Enemas if it is more than 3 days without true stooling.

It takes about 6 months of normalcy before the colon returns to normal if there's megacolon or a lot of nerve damage.

 

The sensory component...some people up the brushing others go deep pressure, depends on therapist and kid.

 

We did reward for compliance with sotting on potty per schedule. Ds has never developed reliable feelings of needing to go (with enough time to get there), but his body has a reliable schedule.

 

The reality no one talks about is that there are a number of teens with spd who still have issues. Ddavp is available to cope with nocturnal enuresis on overnight/scouting trips.

 

I have had four kids in diapers before at the same time... We invested in paper chux and other things to make life livable. Now we layer sheets and hospital grade cloth chux on beds. Anyone over 4 can handle their own laundry if need be. I help, but there's no need to wake me up in the middle of the night....

[Jean in Newcastle]

With ds16 (when he was much younger!) I had to put the sensations into words for him.  So had to specifically tell him, "When you feel a pushing  that means. . ."  or "when you feel pressure that means. . . "  And I had to tell him to act on it at the start of that sensation, not at the end when his body can't control it any more.  It meant a lot of watching his body language also and telling him "the way you are squirming is telling me that your body is feeling ____________".  

[kiwik]

That is pretty much it. I can see by the way your body is --- that it needs needs to ----. I might read up on sensory stuff it hadn't really clicked with me before though I had wondered at a sort of sub level for a while. He is also certain that he can hold on long enough to finish whatever he is doing. I think I have been letting other peoples judgements affect me again due to frustration and I need to reset. Since we set up a 'put soiled underwear in the laundry tub and I will deal with them later' policy I have had no trouble with him hiding them. I think I have to accept he is doing his best even though to me it doesn't seem that way.

 

The only ideas the public health people have come up with is to send him to month long camp for training. On my worst days I consider it but he would feel really rejected, he has never been away from home except to his grandparents and we have at times managed 3 to 6 weeks by ourselves.

 

Thanks for your help I have managed to sort a few things out. Now I need to go forward.

 

Eta. I think there is also an anxiety component.

[Heathermomster]

I curious too.  How do you learn to do this deep pressure stuff?  Is there a book that spells that out?  I'm fascinated by the whole thing.

 

 

[Ottakee]

Is is on any medication to deal with the underlying constipation?  We did the Miralax route here and it took time and consistency but was great.  We did another prescription first to "clean her out" and then moved to the MIralax.  It really was life changing.

 

One thing I did was STOP washing the poopy undies.  I just went to a local thrift store and bought TONS of undies in her size for 5 cents a piece and washed them in hot water and bleach at home and when they were really soiled we just dumped them.  Saved my sanity----but you would need a good source of really cheap undies.

 

I have heard that some people like a "squatty potty" as it helps the kids be in a better position to poop.

[kbutton]

That is pretty much it. I can see by the way your body is --- that it needs needs to ----. I might read up on sensory stuff it hadn't really clicked with me before though I had wondered at a sort of sub level for a while. He is also certain that he can hold on long enough to finish whatever he is doing. I think I have been letting other peoples judgements affect me again due to frustration and I need to reset. Since we set up a 'put soiled underwear in the laundry tub and I will deal with them later' policy I have had no trouble with him hiding them. I think I have to accept he is doing his best even though to me it doesn't seem that way.

 

The only ideas the public health people have come up with is to send him to month long camp for training. On my worst days I consider it but he would feel really rejected, he has never been away from home except to his grandparents and we have at times managed 3 to 6 weeks by ourselves.

 

Thanks for your help I have managed to sort a few things out. Now I need to go forward.

 

Eta. I think there is also an anxiety component.

 

FWIW, our psychologist says that sensory and anxiety are two sides of the same coin. As the kids age, anxiety is more likely to be the dominant symptom.

 

Jean mentioned describing the sensations--my son needed that kind of training as well for his "waiting too long." He just didn't see that he was doing it, and his sense of how it felt was less urgent in some way. In thinking about this, I would also note that not only did my son have more trouble stopping and going when he was busy, he also had more accidents (in his case, usually softball sized pee spots on his pants) when he was in overstimulating environments. Before we knew he had sensory issues or knew that SPD even existed, we knew that he shut down in overstimulating environments as self defense, but we didn't know why (thought it was related to introversion). I suspect that once he shut down to the noise, lights, chaos, he also shut down to his own bodily awareness.

 

[kiwik]

Anxiety and sensory being a pair makes sense. We have been doing Miramax an sitting after meals for 2.5 years. He has learnt to sit long enough for something to happen if it is going to (before he kept going to the toilet than leaving when the urge passed) and when he his stomach is ok he is not to bad. But then he has days when his bowels are loose and putrid, he wakes up in the night screaming because his stomach or his legs ache and we have a few really bad days.

 

Honestly I think it maybe that he has several issues - gut problems (my side), sensory/anxiety (my side) and a late maturing bowel habit (from his dad) and combined they are a toxic mess. I really hope the specialist can come up with something.

 

Undies are cheaper than pull Ups here - I do throw a lot of pairs away.

[Ottakee]

Have you looked at food allergies/intolerances as a possible issue as well?  Wheat/Gluten is a big one and dairy is another.

[PeterPan]

Anxiety and sensory being a pair makes sense. We have been doing Miramax an sitting after meals for 2.5 years. He has learnt to sit long enough for something to happen if it is going to (before he kept going to the toilet than leaving when the urge passed) and when he his stomach is ok he is not to bad. But then he has days when his bowels are loose and putrid, he wakes up in the night screaming because his stomach or his legs ache and we have a few really bad days.

 

Honestly I think it maybe that he has several issues - gut problems (my side), sensory/anxiety (my side) and a late maturing bowel habit (from his dad) and combined they are a toxic mess. I really hope the specialist can come up with something.

 

Undies are cheaper than pull Ups here - I do throw a lot of pairs away.

My legs ached growing up, and they called it growing pains.  Later I started with this nutritionist whose great joy is to detox everything out of you slowly but not painlessly.  Those leg pains came back, when I hadn't had them in years.  I was in my late 20s at the time.  Anyways, she claimed they were some kind of virus that had gotten into me, maybe by exposure going through the vaginal canal to something my mother had been vaccinated for and had in her system.  I can't remember now what virus she claimed it was, but it was sure awful on the way-out.  She did have that theory though that viruses would get in you and get sort of systemic.  So maybe investigate in that direction of gluten, viruses, etc. to see if you can find some explanations?  

 

Btw, that book It's No Accident made polyethylene glycol sound very safe, but then when I googled it an inflammatory article popped up about how it strips the mucosal lining of the intestines and affects absorption, etc.  I don't know at all, but if you've been on it a long time and are seeing things (deficiencies, immune system not working ideally, etc.), maybe you're seeing some side effects??  Like I said, I know nothing.  Just a path you could investigate.

[Paige]

If you've been using miralax for 2.5 years, and he still has problems, IMO, it's time to switch. My DD takes something else which is prescription only, but even a small bit of exlax daily could help. There's warnings on the boxes saying not to take it regularly, but if done under supervision of a doctor it can be better than miralax for some kids. We used it for a while and DD improved significantly compared to no improvement on the miralax. She switched to something else for other reasons. I'd take him back to the doctor and ask for something else. 2.5years is plenty of time for a medicine to work or not. It would be different if he'd been on it this whole time and symptoms disappear while he's on it and return when he goes off, but if he's symptomatic while taking it, then it's not ok. I'd push for a 2nd opinion if the doctor doesn't have any other ideas.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I'm glad that you will be taking him to a specialist.  

[kiwik]

Again. We did the after breakfast toilet sit. He spent the whole time whining. half an hour later I see him pulling at his undies and tell him he needs to go to the toilet (with explanation). He claims black and blue there is no problem. A minute later he turned his back to me and yep there is a problem. He claims it has just happened, I point out that if he had listened to me he would have been on the toilet, he says it would have happened on the way... He goes to the toilet spends another 10 mins whining and contorting himself into positions that he can't possible pass a bm and kicking everything within reach. I hah tried reading to him but it makes things worse because he interrupts tge reading every ten seconds to ask if he can get off. He breaks timers playing with them.

 

He is supposed to out with a friend today (tge friends aunt who is used to dealing with poo will be there or it wouldn't be possible) but the have to drive a way and I am thinking he shouldn't go but that wouldn't be fair. The original plan agreed to was a nearby activity or I probably wouldn't have said yes in tge first place.

[Jean in Newcastle]

He seems to have some avoidance issues.  Because of fear?  of pain?  

[kiwik]

I don't think so. He is not the most compliant child at the best of times and he tends to procrastinate. I think because it doesn't worry him he would just rather finish his game first. He has never complained of pain while actually going to the toilet.

 

I also suspect it is a bit of a control thing - he can't control his bowels but he needs to control something. And I have let it become a power struggle. I should have gone back to the specialist sooner and I should have listened to my gut and got him out of that class last year. My gut also tells me that 6 months at home without rushing about would do him the world of good too but I can't work out a way to do that and still survive financially. Oh well only two week until the specialist appointment now.

[Guest drstevehodges]

hey, i stumbled upon this.  i am not a gi doc (urologist by training), but I've seen so much of this that i can say with 100% certainty that stool accidents in a neurologically intact child are always due to overflow incontinence and daily enemas cure them every time.  a simple x-ray in any child would prove me right or wrong - it frustrates me that many children suffer from stool accidents unnecessarily when the answer is possibly so simple.  Its worth at least an X-ray.  The peristeen pump is even better than enemas, but expensive.

 

[Lecka]

Wow, thanks for replying. 

 

 

[school17777]

hey, i stumbled upon this. i am not a gi doc (urologist by training), but I've seen so much of this that i can say with 100% certainty that stool accidents in a neurologically intact child are always due to overflow incontinence and daily enemas cure them every time. a simple x-ray in any child would prove me right or wrong - it frustrates me that many children suffer from stool accidents unnecessarily when the answer is possibly so simple. Its worth at least an X-ray. The peristeen pump is even better than enemas, but expensive.

I have to laugh because my ped doesn't believe you. I am trying out your recommendations because I don't want to go through an extended time of bed wetting with a third child. We are a month or so in and dd has dry diapers almost 2/3rds of the time. Before trying anything, she was wet almost every night. I promised the ped I'd lend him my book the next time I have to see him.

[Tiramisu]

hey, i stumbled upon this.  i am not a gi doc (urologist by training), but I've seen so much of this that i can say with 100% certainty that stool accidents in a neurologically intact child are always due to overflow incontinence and daily enemas cure them every time.  a simple x-ray in any child would prove me right or wrong - it frustrates me that many children suffer from stool accidents unnecessarily when the answer is possibly so simple.  Its worth at least an X-ray.  The peristeen pump is even better than enemas, but expensive.

 

Going through all the posts, my thought was the OP's ds needs a major clean out. And then I read the above. I completely agree with drstevehodges.

 

Your ds's system needs to be completely flushed out to be able to be re-booted. The clean out should be followed by possibly years of Miralax.

 

With years of dealing with this, I am betting the little guy has compacted stool up there that may never come out with a normal Miralax and training regimen. In fact, in cases like this, normal Miralax use can really make it worse. The compacted stool could stay put forever with the Miralax overflow just going around it. And that stuff will be harder for the child to control. When my dd had her endoscopy, I heard a pediatric GI telling parents after a colonoscopy that there was still compacted stool in their child's bowels after the colonoscopy prep. That stuff does not come out easily. In my own dd's case, the normal MIralax plan didn't help. I think it made it worse. Finally, it took a week of MAJOR flushing with very large doses of Miralax (10 cupfuls, I think) sandwiched between laxative pills to clear the blockage. I think it's a shame that pediatrician's don't hit this harder. It's not comfortable but it beats years and years of soiling or toilets clogging or other embarrassment.

 

I would not undertake this without a doctors supervision, with xrays before and after.