fluffybunny Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Did your children use calculators for Pre Algebra and Algebra? Why or why not? Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckymama Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 No calculator used for prealgebra or algebra (or any other math so far). Art of Problem Solving books are designed so the student does not need to use a calculator. In fact, if dd is working on a problem that gets really messy, she knows she probably made a mistake somewhere! I trace my older dd's lack of algebra 2 retention to over-reliance on calculators in prealgebra and algebra. She had a really difficult time in precalc because she couldn't "see" the graphs of equations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 No calculators here with AoPS. Some programs include problems that may be tedious enough to warrant a calculator. In contrast, with AoPS, a calculator would be a barrier to learning and using the concepts properly by looking for the "easy" (LOL) or "smart" or more elegant way to do the problem. It's all in how the problems are designed. Funny enough, my dd uses Prentice Hall Alg 1 at school and is required to have a calculator, and yet I can't think of a single time she has ever actually used it (AFAIK, it is only allowed in specific instances). We skipped the few calculator problems in MM. It irritates me a bit that they're even in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boscopup Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 We're using AoPS, so no calculator here (if my son starts to multiply two really big numbers, I have him look at the problem again to see if he REALLY needs to do that, because likely he doesn't ;) ), but even when using Dolciani Prealgebra, I've not allowed calculator use either. Not needed in the first few chapters, at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootAnn Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 DD#1's Pre-A includes some business math. Figuring out those interest calculations, the bank statements, and such over & over again looked horrid to me. So, for those, I allow a calculator. (I've been known to allow her to use a calculator to check her manual square roots, too.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 I answered in detail in you other post. No calculator for my kids in math through calculus. We use AoPS. They may use a calculator in physics and chemistry and on standardized tests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 We do math on multiple levels so my rules on calculator use is different for their main math program (Singapore) than for the supplements. I do not generally allow calculators to be used for their main program and plan to keep it that until Algebra 2. Growing up, we were required to use graphing calculators for certain problems starting in Algebra 2. For supplements and science, I do allow calculator use because the focus is on teaching concepts rather than mastering pencil and paper calculations. Singapore DM does sometimes have problems marked with the calculator icon. With those, I have to decide whether to be "mean mom" and make DD solve them by hand, or we skip them entirely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEmama Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 I do allow using a calculator in MM6 for the questions with the little icon. I actually think its a good skill to have (obviously, not to rely on) and DS really has to understand the question in order to use it properly. I wouldn't have thought to have him use one yet, but I was pleased when it was introduced in the program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 No calculator here, about 70% through Algebra. There are exceptions: a couple of times, the instructor asks him to pull out his calculator to learn how to use it to, say, find an exponent. So he is learning how to use it, but he hasn't used it for the problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluffybunny Posted March 3, 2014 Author Share Posted March 3, 2014 Thank you for your replies. My son is taking forever to get through Zeta (the decimals unit before PreAl) and crying over division. He knows how to do the sums, but I think it's a concentration issue. It's interesting hearing your different views. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FriedClams Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 No calculator unless directed by Mr. Reed - mostly through Saxon Algebra 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Thank you for your replies. My son is taking forever to get through Zeta (the decimals unit before PreAl) and crying over division. He knows how to do the sums, but I think it's a concentration issue. It's interesting hearing your different views. If he is working on division with decimals, wouldn't using a calculator defeat the purpose of doing the exercises at all? If he knows how to do the computations, but they are so repetitive that they make him cry, could some of the exercises be added into future review instead of completing them all now? FWIW, this isn't the same question as whether to allow a calculator in prealgebra/algebra. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluffybunny Posted March 4, 2014 Author Share Posted March 4, 2014 If he is working on division with decimals, wouldn't using a calculator defeat the purpose of doing the exercises at all? If he knows how to do the computations, but they are so repetitive that they make him cry, could some of the exercises be added into future review instead of completing them all now? FWIW, this isn't the same question as whether to allow a calculator in prealgebra/algebra. No, absolutely not! I'm only saying that because I'm looking ahead to the next units PA and Al and wondering how much frustration he's going to encounter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 No, absolutely not! I'm only saying that because I'm looking ahead to the next units PA and Al and wondering how much frustration he's going to encounter. Then perhaps the next questions are: (1) what is so frustrating to him about it that there are tears? It's just long division, right? Is there confusion about the concept of dividing with what are essentially fractional parts, or irritation with the procedure for long division? And, (2) how much frustration he'd encounter with division of decimals in prealgebra and algebra would depend on how often it comes up. The answer will depend on the program. It's certainly a prerequisite skill that should be well-established regardless. I can't say that it's something my kids do every single day or even every week, but then again I might not notice - it's random. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluffybunny Posted March 4, 2014 Author Share Posted March 4, 2014 Then perhaps the next questions are: (1) what is so frustrating to him about it that there are tears? It's just long division, right? Is there confusion about the concept of dividing with what are essentially fractional parts, or irritation with the procedure for long division? And, (2) how much frustration he'd encounter with division of decimals in prealgebra and algebra would depend on how often it comes up. The answer will depend on the program. It's certainly a prerequisite skill that should be well-established regardless. I can't say that it's something my kids do every single day or even every week, but then again I might not notice - it's random. I would say "irritation with the procedure". He's doing short division though. There isn't any confusion or lack of knowledge. He just spaces out half way through and has trouble staying with a sum till the end. I appreciate your help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 I would say "irritation with the procedure". He's doing short division though. There isn't any confusion or lack of knowledge. He just spaces out half way through and has trouble staying with a sum till the end. I feel your pain. My DS is working on long division in Singapore 4A and this is EXACTLY what he's struggling with. He understands the concept just fine but staying focused to actually complete the problem is an issue. I've been alternating days with a curriculum he finds much more interesting & enjoyable (Beast Academy) which seems to help somewhat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EndOfOrdinary Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 My son hates decimal multiplication and division. It was the hardest part for him to get through. He understood, but got annoyed with the procedure as well. We are another non-calculator family. He gets to use the calculator in chemistry so that he can focus on concept and not computation, but not in math. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cottonwood Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 No calc here, we are at the end of Pre-A. DD13 came home from public school this year (7th grade) and no only relied VERY heavily on her calc, but also had multiplication facts taped to her notebooks and other reminders from GRADES ago. She was an honors math student but when we started math here at home, it was an absolute disaster. All the 'crutches' she was given in public school caused her to fall flat here. Still, I took all crutches away and we have chipped away at Pre-A this year, when she should probably be in Alg 1. 3/4 of the yr through and she is FINALLY in a good groove with doing her work properly (lining it up, weeding out sloppy mistakes, etc) getting better scores on her work, and understanding on her own without a crutch. It was explained to me that these crutches make the logical/math related areas of the brain weak when used prematurely, when, our brains should be strengthening in those areas as the math levels increase. There sure will be a need for a calc but not in Pre-A or A. I didn't want to hold firm with DD b/c of how very hard it was on her to learn a new (and stronger!) way, but knew I needed to and BOY am I glad I did. She is kicking butt in math and if you look back to some of my math posts here, you'd see we did not start out in a good place. I saw from DD's case that calculators and worksheets and not knowing her mult facts b/c she could use a cheat sheet severely inhibited learning in many ways. Now, I am amazed at the mental math she is doing and is even game for re-trying AOPS soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walking-Iris Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 No calculator here either. And I feel your pain. The process of long division, multiplication, fractions drives my oldest nuts. He doesn't like anything to take too long. However.....I did take a statistics class online last fall, and not having any instruction in the scientific calculators use tripped me up. I could do the math, I understood the concepts, but quite a bit of stats was impossible without the the ti-84+ just in terms of complexity of the stats and time limits on tests. I spent loads of time googling and asking online tutors questions about how to use the darn thing. I've saved my notes, and I've been playing around with my oldest with it. So I've made the commitment to show my kids how a scientific calculator works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluedarling Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 I just let both ds use a calculator in Algebra. One is an extremely slow worker (but accurate), and that is the only way he will persist through it. 2nd child exactly the opposite...fast worker who has mastered basic math. In both cases I felt a calculator was warranted. My dd got caught for a bit in Zeta, too...we just kept going back through it, and I think she finally got it. (No calculator for her, yet! Maybe in Algebra, we'll see.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gratia271 Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 No calculator usage here either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSinNH Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 No calculators in elementary math and not for learning the actual problems (square roots, exponents, etc). But beginning in the second half of Pre-algebra, I let DD12 use a calculator for computation because I knew she could compute 324x136, for example. Long multiplication and division were taking up too much lesson time and were not the focus of the lesson. I will probably do the same for DD10. We do not use AoPS, so that may be a difference. We used Dolciani for Pre-algebra and Lial's for Algebra. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanny Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 No calculator here either. And I feel your pain. The process of long division, multiplication, fractions drives my oldest nuts. He doesn't like anything to take too long. However.....I did take a statistics class online last fall, and not having any instruction in the scientific calculators use tripped me up. I could do the math, I understood the concepts, but quite a bit of stats was impossible without the the ti-84+ just in terms of complexity of the stats and time limits on tests. I spent loads of time googling and asking online tutors questions about how to use the darn thing. I've saved my notes, and I've been playing around with my oldest with it. So I've made the commitment to show my kids how a scientific calculator works. This subject came up in our house, yesterday. I suspect that in the near future, DD will begin using a Scientific Calculator. Probably we have 2 or 3 of those in the house. But, I am wondering about when she will need a Graphing Calculator, and if so, whether it will be Numerical or CAS and I don't know if we have one in the house that works. Critical that students know how to do the problems manually. Also critical that they be proficient with a Calculator, when they take the SAT, ACT, etc. I am so old that I used a Slide Rule when I was young. This URL has information: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slide_rule And, I remember when a friend bought her first calculator. It was very primitive and cost about USD$200. Now, for USD$5, one can buy a calculator that is much more powerful. OP: Interesting thread! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purduemeche Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Children should know *how* to use them, especially if they are planning on the AP test or to pursue any kind of engineering field. However, calculator use should only be about 5% of math class time. The focus should be on handwork - drawing the graphs out point-by-point, etc.. DH got his engineering degree from Purdue and saw a very clear correlation between success in college level math and more handwork time in middle school and high school math. His classmates who were whizzes at solving everything on a TI-89, but couldn't write anything out, had to repeat plenty of classes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 But, I am wondering about when she will need a Graphing Calculator, and if so, whether it will be Numerical or CAS and I don't know if we have one in the house that works. My DD has not needed a graphing calculator through calculus and 3 semesters of calculus based physics. She has taken the Math 2 subject SAT with a simple scientific calculator. Your student will need a graphing calculator on the AP calc exam, because there are problems designed specifically to be solved with a graphing calculator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 My oldest dd went to school, and they required and encouraged using calculators from 6th grade on. My dd never learned basic math (she was adopted from an orphanage at age 11, so that's part of it, but the other part is always being allowed to use a calculator), and now that she is in college her math skills are still not what I would like them to be. She can do the calculations on a calculator but has little understanding of what she is doing, and she could never complete even simple math without the aid of a calculator. I will not let my dd 12 use a calculator unless and until she gets to a college class (in high school) that requires it. I'm not sure about my son, who is most likely dyslexic and has multiple learning issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.