How do you feel about your 12/13 year old girl "going out" (places) with boys?

[AimeeM]

Assume for a moment that your 12/13 year old daughter is the only girl in a very small all boys' school :)

DD is the only girl in a K-8 school for bright/gifted dyslexics. The all boy thing was never intentional on the part of the school - just the way the cards were dealt. In the entire "upper school" (grades 5/6-8) there are only 6 children, including my daughter. The entire school itself only has about 16 students, at last count.

 

The first time DD was invited to see a movie, the parents of the boy very wisely turned it into a group outing with the other upper school students. This particular boy and my daughter apparently call each other "girlfriend/boyfriend". Student/teacher ratio is amazing, so we aren't incredibly concerned; beyond that, dd has a good head on her shoulders - when I asked her if the boy tried to kiss her, or vice versa (I heard they had been holding hands), she replied "no way! I'm not giving away my first kiss to just ANYone, mom". Yay! Lol.

 

My husband and I both remember junior high crushes of our own so, again, we aren't very concerned there.

 

Now she's been invited (different, older boy) to a movie, with no intention of turning it into a group thing, from what I hear. Understandably, my husband gave an immediate "no way". We know through the school grapevine that there are some big time crushes going on within the upper school as a whole.

 

While I tend to agree with my husband on this, I also feel for my daughter. By default, boys are the only friends she has and she so badly wants to hang out in the same capacity as the other children - outside of school, one-on-one, etc. I know, however, that this feels a bit too much like "dating" for my husband (and to me, too, if I'm honest).

 

ETA: before anyone asks, she doesn't have time to be involved in anything that would give her girl friends. All of the sports at her age require several two-hour practices/sessions weekly, plus weekend time; between school hours, homework, and other school commitments, there's simply no way to juggle an extracurricular. Everything that isn't a sport, is so structured that she ended up not really "knowing" any of the girls, kwim? We ran into this problem when we homeschooled her.

[bolt.]

I suggest that she find a way to accept invitations -- perhaps she can bring along a sibling, cousin or friend... Taking the role of "making it into a group thing" herself, being an empowered young woman.

 

Maybe she can 'double date' with her parents. Think outside the box.

[AimeeM]

She doesn't have any siblings but her much younger brothers (age 4 and 1), no cousins in the area, and no friends outside of school.

 

The boy's parents would be there, but DH still feels like that is less a group outing, and more a chaperoned date.

 

I believe she already suggested he invite a couple other boys from their class.

[regentrude]

I would have no problem. I always had male friends who were just friends. Never did any of them overstep any boundaries.

I do not see why a girl should not be able to go to the movies or a performance with a male friend - it's just a movie.

[ssavings]

Wouldn't bother me. My best friends in junior high & high school were males. 

[elegantlion]

I would have no problem. I always had male friends who were just friends. Never did any of them overstep any boundaries.

I do not see why a girl should not be able to go to the movies or a performance with a male friend - it's just a movie.

 

 

:iagree:  As someone who had more male friends than female friends, I agree. How does your dd view the invite? In my mind there was always a clear line between hanging out with the a guy friend and what could be construed as a date. 

[AimeeM]

I know that the boy dates otherwise and is often talking about his girlfriends. I know (same school grapevine) that he does *like* dd.

[regentrude]

I know that the boy dates otherwise and is often talking about his girlfriends. I know (same school grapevine) that he does *like* dd.

 

So what exactly is the harm, even if he indeed likes your DD, if they go to see a movie?

I am trying to understand why this would be a problem.

[Anne in CA]

There was a girl in the home school coop I used to go to who also ended up the only girl by coincidence. She was allowed to be friends with boys and do things with them in groups, but no one on one activities. Her parents felt (and I agree) that kids that age need more supervision than society gives them anyway, so allowing one on one activities was a dark gray area with the complications far out weighing potential benefits. But her mother was very sad about the girl not having girlfriends.

[AimeeM]

So what exactly is the harm, eve if he indeed likes your DD, if they go to see a movie?

 

We do not allow dating at this age - and that's pretty much what it would be, at least in his eyes I imagine. I do know, however, that she desires to hang out with her friends outside of school events.

 

I am worried that this could cause discord within the school, as well. There have already been minor problems with the boys boasting about who talked to DD the most over the weekend... it's a tightly knit group and I do NOT want divisions being made, considering the amount of time they spend together not just during school hours, but at school functions (camp outs, lock-ins, hiking trips, etc).

[Guest inoubliable]

If she wants to go and hang out as a friend, I'd let her. Sounds like your daughter is more than capable of telling the kid that she's not interested if it even comes up. 

Just wanted to add that there really is no reality to viewing all teenage boys are walking erections, all of whom are interested in your daughter. 

[regentrude]

We do not allow dating at this age - and that's pretty much what it would be, at least in his eyes I imagine. I do know, however, that she desires to hang out with her friends outside of school events.

 

I am worried that this could cause discord within the school, as well. There have already been minor problems with the boys boasting about who talked to DD the most over the weekend... it's a tightly knit group and I do NOT want divisions being made, considering the amount of time they spend together not just during school hours, but at school functions (camp outs, lock-ins, hiking trips, etc).

 

I guess I don't get why going to the movies with another girl is going to the movies and going with a guy is "dating" - seeing that it's exactly the same activity.  But then, I come from a culture where the concept of a "date" does not exist and where kids can have fun with friends without being pressed into these ridiculous rituals.

I understand your second concern, but I would be careful not to give my DD the impression that she can not hang out with her friends just because somebody else could be having a problem with it. I would never want to send the message that she is responsible for other people's feelings and actions and needs to walk on egg shells because others have problems. There is way too much of that in our culture, and I would work actively to counteract the  idea that it is always the female's fault how guys react. It is not.

 

ETA: Would it be considered a "date"  (and thus not allowed) if she was going to the movie with a girl who is a lesbian?

What if she was going with a girl and you did not know anything about the girl's sexual orientation?

 

[gardenmom5]

just a couple? no way, too young. 

in a mixed group with pairing off?  NO way. 

in a mixed group, no pairing off?  fine.

friends hanging out?  usually fine.

[AK_Mom4]

We don't do solo activities for DD12.  Last week, she went with a group of guys to a hockey game - DH drove and chaparoned the outing.  She does have some friends who are boys and if they wanted to see a movie or something, either DH or I would be taking them.  Any "hanging out" (probably playing video games knowing DD12) would happen at our house under our watch.  It's not that I don't trust other parents or DD's friends, but in general we just don't send kids out alone until they are older.  DD12 does have two friends that I know the parents very well and she gets to go places with them without mom and dad.

 

So -yes, I would let a 12-13 hang out with her friends who are boys and yes, DH or I would be there keeping an eye on things.

 

[bolt.]

I believe she already suggested he invite a couple other boys from their class.

It seems to me that she believes she has been asked on a date (not to hang out with a regular male friend) -- is that correct? If so, it falls under your familiy's dating rules.

 

However, it is not enough for her to "suggest" that *he* invite others. In this setting, especially as they all grow older together, she can't play passive, compliant and sweet. She needs to be plan-maker, person-inviter, condition-setter -- a pro active girl with a sense if firmness and leadership.

 

If she wants other people to join their outing, she says, "I want other people to join us. Maybe x, y or z. Who do you think. Will you ask them, or shall I?" If she wants it only to be kinda-like a date, she needs to say so.

[Haiku]

The boy's parents would be there, but DH still feels like that is less a group outing, and more a chaperoned date.

 

If you put your daughter in an environment where she only has access to boys as companions, it is unfair to her to then bar her from hanging out with the boys because it's too much like dating.

 

It sounds like you guys need to step up and take the reigns in planning regular social events for all the kids in her peer group so that she has regular access to social situations without you feeling like it's a date. I also think it's inappropriate for your dd to suggest to someone that has invited her somewhere that they add extra kids. If it's important to you that your dd's outings be group events, then you need to discuss it with the other parents.

 

You put your dd in this situation; help her out.

[mytwomonkeys]

Speaking only for my daughter (she's 12) -- no.way.on.earth.

[catz]

She doesn't have any siblings but her much younger brothers (age 4 and 1), no cousins in the area, and no friends outside of school.

 

The boy's parents would be there, but DH still feels like that is less a group outing, and more a chaperoned date.

 

I believe she already suggested he invite a couple other boys from their class.

With the boy's parents there, I would likely allow it given her particular situation.

 

My 13 year old son went out with a few kids a few years older that him last night (15-16 year olds). Mixed genders. It's a group of his theater friends. A year ago I would have thought that was nutty. Now it seems totally fine due to his personality and the make up of this particular group of kids that it seems ok. I would allow him to go out with any of the girls involved in that group 1-1 with a trailing parent. They tend to go see other youth theater productions. They saw another friend of theirs last night who was playing a lead role (and she is 19!).

[T'smom]

I would ask her if she thinks it's a 'date' and if she thinks the boy thinks it's a 'date'. If she views it as just hanging out, I would tell her she needs to make sure the boy knows that. But I would let her hang out if they are considering themselves friends. (Since the parents are accompanying them, I might touch base with them about the expectations)

[AimeeM]

I love the idea of her initiating a group outing. I'll have to see if another parent can help with transport (they have minivans - I just have an SUV).

 

I know not everybody agrees with the no dating/alone with boys rules and I appreciate that everyone has kept their opinions respectful and civil :)

 

To clarify, we do not think all teenage boy are "walking erections", lol. Not by a long shot. We allow her to take part in camping trips and lock ins at the school regularly. These are HEAVILY supervised and involve the entire school.

 

I'm sure DD would have no problem asking the boy, in a straight forward manner, if he considers this a date or otherwise. She has little filter :D

 

DD knew when she started at this school that there would be rules about hanging out with her classmates/the boys. It was something we made sure of. We talked with her extensively about it and she is the one who chose to go. If she's old enough to take initiative to become an empowered young lady, as has been suggested in this thread, then she is certainly old enough to remember that she made a choice to go to the school, knowing that there would be rules about outings. In other words, this wasn't a situation that we put her in, blindly, with no input from her.

[Haiku]

DD knew when she started at this school that there would be rules about hanging out with her classmates/the boys. It was something we made sure of. We talked with her extensively about it and she is the one who chose to go. If she's old enough to take initiative to become an empowered young lady, as has been suggested in this thread, then she is certainly old enough to remember that she made a choice to go to the school, knowing that there would be rules about outings. In other words, this wasn't a situation that we put her in, blindly, with no input from her.

 

I would still say it's your responsibility to make sure she has appropriate social opportunities. I don't know how old your dd was when she started this school, but she's at an age where her social needs will be going through dramatic changes, and what might seem fine and reasonable to an 11/newly 12 year old in terms of restrictions may feel completely different a year later. Early teens tend to experience an increased need for regular social contact with friends, and that's not something a child who hasn't encountered it yet can anticipate or understand. Imo, there's too much emotional change in kids around this age to ask them to stick to promises or guidelines they agreed to a year (or more) ago.

 

My oldest dd changed quite a bit from 12-15 in terms of her desire for social interaction, and the types of activities that were taken as the norm for kids to participate in changed, too. 

 

I think that talking to your dd's classmates' parents would make things easier for everyone, because everyone will understand everyone else's perspectives and expectations. A boy on my dd's hockey team wanted to invite my dd to a school dance recently. Luckily the mom had the foresight to run it by me first, and it saved everyone embarrassment and frustration because I was able to explain that a) dd is not at all interested in boys yet, b) she would not enjoy going to a social event with kids 1-3 grades older then she is where she knew no one but the boy, c) we felt she was far too young to do any dating, and d) we didn't think dating a teammate would ever be a good idea. The mom understood, she explained it privately to her son, and my dd was never the wiser.

[Um_2_4]

Obviously my kids are too young and we don't "do" the dating thing anyways, but I wanted to give you an insight as far as small groups and high male/female ratios.

I was in a small group in my large high school. We were the academic team. Total was about 20 students. MOST were boys for all 4 years I was involved. And we were in the same classes, same after school practices, often at lunch in the physics lab, etc. So It was kind of like our own "school" within the school.

I was not involved directly, but my senior year DRAMA ripped through our team (boy/girl stuff) and almost lost us a competition. That girl did not want to come back for a while. The boy got rather "gruff" for lack of better words. Our advisor got involved.

You do not want your daughter to dread going to school or the like.

We did lots as a large group. Often it was 8-12 of us going to a movie or to Denny's. If you made it a flat rule(only group activities), then that should eliminate any questions from parents, etc. And hopefully avoid the tween drama.

[AimeeM]

I agree and we are working on that. We're trying to find an activity that is weekends only. She's struggling right now in school - most of the children have been in schools for dyslexics for years prior, and have had successful OG tutoring for years prior; this is dd's first year there. Right now she's at school until about 5:30 every evening for tutoring/extra homework help. Enrolling her in any activity that meets during the week would be impossible (if she wants to eat or sleep, lol).

She gets plenty of social interaction, actually. The school gives a very generous recess period, they have free periods during the after school program, and have lock ins, camp outs, movies, etc as a school - these are unstructured and she loves them. What she misses is hanging out one-on-one with other children. Right now everything is arranged by the school and in groups.

 

As per an above post (or two, lol), I do want to clarify that I am in no way saying that these boys' intentions are less than pure and that our daughter is a saint who would never give us cause for concern. I know her better than that :P She's boy crazy. She thinks they are all cute (minus her bestie there). The difference is that there are 5 of them (boys), and only one of her (girl-s). This has already caused competition amongst the older children - children who have been great friends for many years prior to this year (when dd came to the school). This is the age when many children start to notice the opposite s*x. Don't get me wrong... the teachers and head of school are glad she's there - they feel that having a girl there, even with the occasional issues, give the school and students a sense of normalcy, but there is no denying that it comes with some unique, awkward situations. If they are competitive about who talks to her the most, I'm concerned about the friction that could happen if she hangs out with them one-on-one, considering the obvious crushes going on. And although we acknowledge that crushes at this age are normal and healthy, we do not want to advocate dating at this age. If she has a crush on a boy, and he has a crush on her, and they go out "alone/not in a group as a group activity", that's a date (in my head).

 

I would still say it's your responsibility to make sure she has appropriate social opportunities. I don't know how old your dd was when she started this school, but she's at an age where her social needs will be going through dramatic changes, and what might seem fine and reasonable to an 11/newly 12 year old in terms of restrictions may feel completely different a year later. Early teens tend to experience an increased need for regular social contact with friends, and that's not something a child who hasn't encountered it yet can anticipate or understand. Imo, there's too much emotional change in kids around this age to ask them to stick to promises or guidelines they agreed to a year (or more) ago.

 

My oldest dd changed quite a bit from 12-15 in terms of her desire for social interaction, and the types of activities that were taken as the norm for kids to participate in changed, too. 

 

I think that talking to your dd's classmates' parents would make things easier for everyone, because everyone will understand everyone else's perspectives and expectations. A boy on my dd's hockey team wanted to invite my dd to a school dance recently. Luckily the mom had the foresight to run it by me first, and it saved everyone embarrassment and frustration because I was able to explain that a) dd is not at all interested in boys yet, B) she would not enjoy going to a social event with kids 1-3 grades older then she is where she knew no one but the boy, c) we felt she was far too young to do any dating, and d) we didn't think dating a teammate would ever be a good idea. The mom understood, she explained it privately to her son, and my dd was never the wiser.

 

[AimeeM]

I am scared about the drama :( It's already started on some level (small stuff and always nipped in the bud by the admin and teachers immediately, but still here on some level). The group is good together - I mean really, really good.

 

We already have a group activities only rule. I do feel badly for her that she has no one-on-one, though, like she hears the others talking about having. Even her "bestie" is a boy.

I'm going to have to talk to my husband. I don't think it's fair to her that she isn't allowed any weekend activities (because group activities amongst all the parents takes a lot of planning and work to implement), just because - by default - her friends are boys. I do realize, however, that this is sticky because there is a LOT of crushing going on, across the board.

Obviously my kids are too young and we don't "do" the dating thing anyways, but I wanted to give you an insight as far as small groups and high male/female ratios.

I was in a small group in my large high school. We were the academic team. Total was about 20 students. MOST were boys for all 4 years I was involved. And we were in the same classes, same after school practices, often at lunch in the physics lab, etc. So It was kind of like our own "school" within the school.

I was not involved directly, but my senior year DRAMA ripped through our team (boy/girl stuff) and almost lost us a competition. That girl did not want to come back for a while. The boy got rather "gruff" for lack of better words. Our advisor got involved.

You do not want your daughter to dread going to school or the like.

We did lots as a large group. Often it was 8-12 of us going to a movie or to Denny's. If you made it a flat rule(only group activities), then that should eliminate any questions from parents, etc. And hopefully avoid the tween drama.

 

[bolt.]

If she is crushing too, watch out for attempted deceptions like:

 

- A flat lie that it is a group activity.

- A situation where someone else supposedly agreed to come too, but couldn't / didn't.

- A friend willing to come along, with the understanding that he is there for appearances, but it's actually a date.

- Co-incidental meetings.

 

Of those, the 3rd is the worst. Chances are the 3rd wheel is crushing too, and that's why he wants to be helpful and accommodating. That triangle will explode in a really bad way.

[AimeeM]

Blessedly, thus far, the parents have been great about communicating plans (minus this last invitation - mom was supposed to call me, but didn't). I would never, never, never allow her to go without solidifying plans with the parent(s).

 

Number 3 is a BIG concern of ours. All of the kids seem to have the best of intentions... but they are all also hormonal young teenagers and pretty competitive. They do seem rather easy going about being "one upped"... but I'm not fond of my daughter being the center of that "one-upping", kwim?

If she is crushing too, watch out for attempted deceptions like:

- A flat lie that it is a group activity.
- A situation where someone else supposedly agreed to come too, but couldn't / didn't.
- A friend willing to come along, with the understanding that he is there for appearances, but it's actually a date.
- Co-incidental meetings.

Of those, the 3rd is the worst. Chances are the 3rd wheel is crushing too, and that's why he wants to be helpful and accommodating. That triangle will explode in a really bad way.

 

[In The Great White North]

 

 

I guess I don't get why going to the movies with another girl is going to the movies and going with a guy is "dating" - seeing that it's exactly the same activity.

 

It may not make sense, but there is no doubt in my mind (or, I suspect, the kids) that a boy and a girl going to the movies together is a date, not just hanging out.

 

 

We already have a group activities only rule. I do feel badly for her that she has no one-on-one, though, like she hears the others talking about having. Even her "bestie" is a boy.

 

 

I would stick with this, religiously.  Especially with "some big time crushes going on within the upper school as a whole."  The likelihood of it ending well is slim.

 

 

We're trying to find an activity that is weekends only. She's struggling right now in school - most of the children have been in schools for dyslexics for years prior, and have had successful OG tutoring for years prior; this is dd's first year there. Right now she's at school until about 5:30 every evening for tutoring/extra homework help. Enrolling her in any activity that meets during the week would be impossible (if she wants to eat or sleep, lol).

She gets plenty of social interaction, actually. The school gives a very generous recess period, they have free periods during the after school program, and have lock ins, camp outs, movies, etc as a school - these are unstructured and she loves them. What she misses is hanging out one-on-one with other children. Right now everything is arranged by the school and in groups.

 

Actually, I don't think she is getting plenty of social interaction - I think the school is controlling her life but not meeting all of her needs.  It's not a great idea to have all her friends in one basket, so to speak.  

 

Who did she hang out with before she started this school?

[BlsdMama]

No. I would work hard to find girlfriends I think and nurture those relationships. Not at 12/13, and honestly not at 14, 15, and it would depend on the 16yo. But we're pretty conservative.

[AimeeM]

 

Who did she hang out with before she started this school?

 

A young girl who lives on our street, but that is a tricky situation. Mom and dad had joint 50/50 custody, she lived here with dad; we had to tell mom that dad was driving while drinking and had caused a few accidents in the subdivision - while he had the child in his custody (although not in the car with him). Lawyers and all that mess ensued, Dad found out that we (and several others in the neighborhood) had a hand in that, and now the child is no longer allowed to play with DD when at Dad's. It's been devastating for DD, as they have grown up together and have been best friends since very young; attached at the hip and playing daily. Mom tries to get the child and DD together as frequently as possible, but it only happens every few months, at best (this child attends school and has extracurriculars, mom works full time, and they do not live in our city).

 

Surprisingly, out of the blue, the girl called yesterday and invited DD to a movie and to hang out at her mom's house for the afternoon :) DD is ridiculously excited, lol.