Some basic facts on the Woody Allen case and link to the original court's findings

[Laurie4b]

http://www.vanityfair.com/online/daily/2014/02/woody-allen-sex-abuse-10-facts

 

Since Woody Allen has written his op-ed piece, I thought this article's facts were relevant. There is a link in the story to the original judge's opinion as well.   There were 3 adult witnesses present that day ( not Ms. Farrow) whose account supports Dylan's story. (You can read what they said, to whom, and when in the court finding) plus W.A. was previously told by a psychologist that his behavior with Dylan was "inappropriate." (Not yet sexual, but overly intense.)

 

 

[umsami]

Yes, and we can also talk about how ineffective polygraph tests are, especially with regards to sex offenders.  From wiki…."In the 1998 Supreme Court case, United States v. Scheffer, the majority stated that "There is simply no consensus that polygraph evidence is reliable" and "Unlike other expert witnesses who testify about factual matters outside the jurors' knowledge, such as the analysis of fingerprints, ballistics, or DNA found at a crime scene, a polygraph expert can supply the jury only with another opinion..."^[15] In 2005 the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals stated that “polygraphy did not enjoy general acceptance from the scientific communityâ€"

 

There was also this article in Slate which pointed out that the NY Appellate Court backed up Farrow, not Allen, and said that the evidence suggests that the abuse DID OCCUR. http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/culturebox/2014/01/did_woody_allen_molest_his_adopted_daughter_22_years_ago_reviewing_the_evidence.html

 

"And in their May 1994 decision, the judges of the New York appellate court held that, with regard to the events of Aug. 4, 1992, “the testimony given at trial by the individuals caring for the children that day, the videotape of Dylan made by Ms. Farrow the following day and the accounts of Dylan's behavior toward Mr. Allen both before and after the alleged instance of abuse, suggest that the abuse did occur.†Although “the evidence in support of the allegations remains inconclusive,†the court stated, “our review of the record militates against a finding that Ms. Farrow fabricated the allegations without any basis."

 

 

And the fact that even in acrimonious divorce cases, the rate of false abuse claims is less than 10%.  Many people's opinions about false abuse accusations are clouded by the McMartin Day Care case in the late 80s/early 90s.  That was an outlier.

 

Dylan has nothing to gain by bringing this up now.  Nothing, except lost of her anonymity and further scrutiny.  She very well knew that their would be fans of her fathers that would attack her.  Yet, after being tormented for 20+ years, she had to come forward for her own healing.

[gardenmom5]

elizabeth loftus was at the UW when she did her groundbreaking work in "recovered/false" memory.  (and we have the wenatchee case that is also a case study in false memory.).  one of her primary cases showed the child who was claimed to have been abused (in the midst of a very nasty divorce), forgot all about the claims from her childhood - and only "remembered" everything later when specifics were given. her imagination then filled out more details.  (EL also had a statement by the mother the girl was coached for the purose of getting sole custody.)

 

 the problem with those contending the abuse in this case never happened is, dillan didn't "recover" a memory.  she's always claimed to have had it. details haven't changed over the years.  she also displays damage typical of someone struggling to heal from abuse.  (the girl in the above case of 'implanted' memories did NOT.)

 

what sparks my curiosity is why this case is so important to you?   

 

he completely creeped me out even in the 70's.  (long before dillon or soon-yi.)

[Laurie4b]

I agree with the appellate court that there is too much evidence, though, for it to have been a case a custody fabrication: the fact that the three adults on the premises all had questions and didn't tell Ms. Farrow until after the allegations had surfaced is huge. It means that it came from Dylan, to me. Then the adults' account actually corroborated her story--with one babysitter not able to find them for a period of time and another seeing the lap incident and then finding out that she had no underwear on. That's too much evidence. The prior warnings that his relationship was too "intense" also tend to corroborate Dylan's account.

 

I think it's possible that Mia Farrow influenced the child's testimony through the videotaping--a lot of parents inadvertently do that in the adrenaline surge that comes in finding out about possible abuse. It's easy for an adult to do that because the child keys in on what the adult is focusing on. However, it can influence it in such a way as to suppress some aspects of what happened because the child can avoid a line of testimony that made mommy upset.

 

There are a lot of ways that a child can be sexually abused that leave no physical evidence.

[Laurie4b]

what sparks my curiosity is why this case is so important to you?   

 

 

 

Are you asking me? I think the more that people are aware of the dynamics of sexual abuse, the behavior of perps, etc. the better children are protected. This is a very public case with stuff being aired on both sides. It's a rare case where that happens, so it provides an opportunity for analysis and discussion. I used to work professionally with both child sexual abuse victims and offenders.

 

Why did your curiosity get sparked?

 

There have been other discussions of this case on this board with the last one featuring an article supportive of Allen.

[clarkacademy]

The confusion I have though is that she told sitters that he could not be alone with Dylan long before the abuse allegations were made. OK if you feel that way why is he your boyfriend? If my gut tells me my guy cannot be with my kid then he won't be my guy that seems kinda common sense to me. The mother goes on to say the feelings she had were present when the child was 2-3 years old that's 5 years before this supposedly took place. Why would anyone be with someone 5 years after he makes her feel this way??? I don't know what did or did not happen but the fact she said this makes me feel she was not acting in the best interest of her child at all. She is saying she felt here was issues before this took place yet she is the one who gave it the possibility. If you feel your whatever is a sexual predator you don't tell sitters to watch your kid you get away from that guy. The fact that she stayed with him after admitting she felt this way for years don't give her any credit. If I was the kid and my mom felt this and this happened to me I would HATE my mother more than the abuser.

[SKL]

Why was this made public in the first place?  That's child abuse right there IMO.

[umsami]

Here's a really good document that was produced in 2009 on the rate of false child sexual abuse allegations.  Americans views are colored by the daycare scandals of the late 80s/90s. (Remember those?)  Actual rates of false accusations are 2-8%.  That means there's a 92-98% chance that the victim is telling the truth.

 

http://ndaa.org/pdf/the_voice_vol_3_no_1_2009.pdf

 

 

If you're asking me why this is so important to me, I work in family violence in a community where coming forward is rare.  Most victims are not believed.  It drives me crazy.

 

I also believed that false accusation rates were higher, until researching it.  I was in my early 20s when the McMartin case happened.

 

I also had an uncle molest me…never came forward…and finally told somebody when I noticed that his granddaughter was the same age I was when I was abused.  I know what it's like to think that nobody will believe you.  Yet I've found out that it's far more common than I'd ever imagined… and that most people never say anything….and the abusers continue to abuse without repercussions.  

[Laurie4b]

The confusion I have though is that she told sitters that he could not be alone with Dylan long before the abuse allegations were made. OK if you feel that way why is he your boyfriend? If my gut tells me my guy cannot be with my kid then he won't be my guy that seems kinda common sense to me. The mother goes on to say the feelings she had were present when the child was 2-3 years old that's 5 years before this supposedly took place. Why would anyone be with someone 5 years after he makes her feel this way??? I don't know what did or did not happen but the fact she said this makes me feel she was not acting in the best interest of her child at all. She is saying she felt here was issues before this took place yet she is the one who gave it the possibility. If you feel your whatever is a sexual predator you don't tell sitters to watch your kid you get away from that guy. The fact that she stayed with him after admitting she felt this way for years don't give her any credit. If I was the kid and my mom felt this and this happened to me I would HATE my mother more than the abuser.

 

Did you read the court document?  If so, I think you may have been reading into it from hindsight. If you read what the document says, they had gone to family therapy and he was told he was inappropriate  ie too intense and was working on that. I don't think Mia Farrow was without fault in her parenting; however, in the early stages of grooming interactions are ambiguous. She did the right thing: they went to therapy. Note: the therapist did not report suspicions of abuse then. She was coaching him in his parenting interactions.

 

There were no sexual abuse suspicions until the day this happened. They were in the beginning of a custody battle the day this happened.

[clarkacademy]

I can't copy and paste but look at #5 it says from the time she was 2-3 years old. He fondled her, he looked at her in a sexual way etc. She was 2-3 years old that is 5 years before this happened. If I posted today tha my boyfriend was doing this with my toddler none of you would say go to therapy all of you would say GET AWAY NOW. What woman wants a man who does this with a toddler??

[SKL]

I only got halfway through that 33-page document that purports to be a decision, but my goodness.  Both parents are lunatics.  He's a sex maniac because he looked at his toddler naked?  And then he's a lousy parent because he doesn't bathe his children?  And she allowed him to adopt the kid she thought he was sexually inappropriate with?  The whole thing screams "UNSTABLE PARENT" to me.  Those poor children.

 

I'm just glad I didn't have to be the cops or the judge in this case.

[SKL]

I do understand that sexual abuse is much more likely to be under-reported than over-reported.  However, the timing of the alleged incident is just too ridiculous.  And a lot of the surrounding circumstances are also ridiculous.  There is no question that the mother was extremely resentful and had full-time access to this impressionable little girl.  If she thought he needed a shrink because he looked at his toddler naked or sat on her bed to read to her, then who knows what she managed to convince her daughter of, re how to interpret whatever her dad did.

 

Yet if he really did molest her, then I feel sorry for her on 100 different levels.

[gardenmom5]

I think the more that people are aware of the dynamics of sexual abuse, the behavior of perps, etc. the better children are protected. This is a very public case with stuff being aired on both sides. It's a rare case where that happens, so it provides an opportunity for analysis and discussion. I used to work professionally with both child sexual abuse victims and offenders.

 

Why did your curiosity get sparked?

 

There have been other discussions of this case on this board with the last one featuring an article supportive of Allen.

 

because there have been articles posted here that defended him.   there are people with no connection to any of those involved, defending him, here.   I don't understand why they would do that, how do these accusations affect them?  (or is it becasue they are/were ardent fans and they can't stand the idea they were fans of someone that scummy? in which case, they make it about themselves.)

 

I am so sick of him, (i've always though he was creepy in a "someone dumped slime on me" sort of way, since long before dylan and soon-yi.  while I heard about soon-yi 17 years ago, this is the first I've heard about dylan).  I have only best wishes for dylan.

 

I appreciate those who have professional experience with abuse victims stating their experiences and what they see. what abuse really looks like, what grooming looks like, etc.  some people just have no clue.

 

 

 

[gardenmom5]

Here's a really good document that was produced in 2009 on the rate of false child sexual abuse allegations.  Americans views are colored by the daycare scandals of the late 80s/90s. (Remember those?)  Actual rates of false accusations are 2-8%.  That means there's a 92-98% chance that the victim is telling the truth.

 

http://ndaa.org/pdf/the_voice_vol_3_no_1_2009.pdf

 

 

If you're asking me why this is so important to me, I work in family violence in a community where coming forward is rare.  Most victims are not believed.  It drives me crazy.

 

I also believed that false accusation rates were higher, until researching it.  I was in my early 20s when the McMartin case happened.

 

I also had an uncle molest me…never came forward…and finally told somebody when I noticed that his granddaughter was the same age I was when I was abused.  I know what it's like to think that nobody will believe you.  Yet I've found out that it's far more common than I'd ever imagined… and that most people never say anything….and the abusers continue to abuse without repercussions.  

 

yes I do.  I live in WA, where the wenatchee case happened, I think early 90's. the claims in that one eventually started getting so preposterous, I wondered when sanity would start to prevail.  

 

I have my own experience with molestation by a neighbor's teenage son when I was very young.  I always remembered.  it did affect me, even though it only happened once.  I didn't tell anyone because I was confused, and didn't think it would change anything. (in the nearly 50 years since, nothing has disabused me of that opinion, but rather reaffirmed it.)  there were outward signs, the dr said I had a bladder infection and until it healed I wasn't allowed much water in my bath, and no more mr bubbles. (which I resented and felt like I was being punished.)

 

I knew you worked in a dv field, and I appreciate your comments.  the people that have really confused me, and sparked my curiosity, are the ones who are defending him.

[Wildiris]

My personal opinion: I think Dylan is being manipulated by her mother in a spiteful vendetta against Allen. If one looks at Farrow's son Ronan, supposedly Allen's son, he look much more like Frank Sinatra than Woody Allen. The whole thing is very Shakespearian. Farrow actions as a young woman and mother do not present her well. 

 

It is worth reading Allen's response on the matter in Variety. 

 

I think molestation a very serious offence that does go unreported and young women and men suffer, but in this case it seems there is more at stake than Dylan's happiness. At this point in Dylan's life, wouldn't a mother be more concerned with her daughters life-long well being. This case had its day in court years ago. Dylan's life is clearly separated from Allen's. Shouldn't Dylan be working on building a life of value and moving forward. What's the motivation here?

[Laurie4b]

My personal opinion: I think Dylan is being manipulated by her mother in a spiteful vendetta against Allen. If one looks at Farrow's son Ronan, supposedly Allen's son, he look much more like Frank Sinatra than Woody Allen. The whole thing is very Shakespearian. Farrow actions as a young woman and mother do not present her well. 

 

It is worth reading Allen's response on the matter in Variety. 

 

I think molestation a very serious offence that does go unreported and young women and men suffer, but in this case it seems there is more at stake than Dylan's happiness. At this point in Dylan's life, wouldn't a mother be more concerned with her daughters life-long well being. This case had its day in court years ago. Dylan's life is clearly separated from Allen's. Shouldn't Dylan be working on building a life of value and moving forward. What's the motivation here?

 

Did you read the original court document?

 

On what basis do you conclude that an adult woman is being manipulated by her mother? Don't you think Dylan has a right to make her own decisions about what is right for her?

 

Are you aware that many victims find healing in speaking out?

[Laurie4b]

I can't copy and paste but look at #5 it says from the time she was 2-3 years old. He fondled her, he looked at her in a sexual way etc. She was 2-3 years old that is 5 years before this happened. If I posted today tha my boyfriend was doing this with my toddler none of you would say go to therapy all of you would say GET AWAY NOW. What woman wants a man who does this with a toddler??

 

I can see how you could read  #5 in the article that way. However, if you read the actual court document, that is not what was happening. The concerns from when she was young stemmed from WA's "intensity" with the child, for which they were all in family therapy. The therapists did not see anything to report to CPS about his prior behavior nor did they tell the mother to GET AWAY NOW. Instead, they tried to work with WA to teach him better parenting skills. The concern about sexual abuse didn't happen until that one day. Dylan reported it to her mother before any of the adults who were concerned said anything to Mia Farrow. But their reports corroborated the child's account.

 

Once sexual abuse comes out, however, a parent often looks back in hindsight and sees red flags missed along the way. That is not at all uncommon, nor a cause for condemning a parent.

 

 

[Anne in CA]

The reason I am so interested in this case is that it is always amazing to me that so many people make excuses for someone like Woody Allen, Sandusky, and they get away with things for so long. Most people simply do not want to believe in evil? There is nothing decent about Woody Allen's behavior and yet many famous people work with him and he gets lifetime achievement awards??? Sometimes I really have no faith in people at all. A Boy Scout leader tried something creepy with my son and he very cleverly stayed just at the edge of what is creepy. But he told some documented lies and was clearly creepy, but people made excuses for him and would not deal with the situation. When I moved he had been elevated to a position to give scholarships in another community group. I am sick that this man will be able to have authority over other young people wanting college money, but no one wanted to hear the truth and I'm sure the situation will go on for a long time before something goes wrong. 

 

In the case of Mia Farrow, her own behavior is far from perfect. She clearly only picks yucky men and doesn't cut them off when she should. I know other women like this, IRL, and she is not the only woman who does this. Why she would adopt a child with someone she wasn't married to and wouldn't live at her house is beyond crazy to me. 

[gardenmom5]

Once sexual abuse comes out, however, a parent often looks back in hindsight and sees red flags missed along the way. That is not at all uncommon, nor a cause for condemning a parent.

it seems like that's the case in many types of abuse.  hindsight is 20/20 isn't a cliche for nothing.

[RanchGirl]

My personal opinion: I think Dylan is being manipulated by her mother in a spiteful vendetta against Allen. If one looks at Farrow's son Ronan, supposedly Allen's son, he look much more like Frank Sinatra than Woody Allen. The whole thing is very Shakespearian. Farrow actions as a young woman and mother do not present her well. 

 

It is worth reading Allen's response on the matter in Variety. 

 

I think molestation a very serious offence that does go unreported and young women and men suffer, but in this case it seems there is more at stake than Dylan's happiness. At this point in Dylan's life, wouldn't a mother be more concerned with her daughters life-long well being. This case had its day in court years ago. Dylan's life is clearly separated from Allen's. Shouldn't Dylan be working on building a life of value and moving forward. What's the motivation here?

 

Ronan and his DNA have nothing to do with Woody Allen abusing Dylan (although I will say that I have been very impressed with Ronan both as an intelligent, thoughtful, humorous person in general and for standing up for his sister against her abuser).  I really do not understand people who bring up Mia's affair with her 70 year old ex as if it were relevant, an excuse for, or some how comparable to A. suspected sexual abuse of Dylan and B. known sexual relationship with and pornographic pictures take on with a mentally challenged 18 year old step-daughter.

 

Dylan has built her own life, she is married and lives in a different state than her mother.  However, in her position I think it would be exceptionally hurtful to see the accolades and awards Woody receives from those who don't mind supporting a child predator.  She is speaking up for herself and I applaud her.  Maybe it will help Woody's two adopted daughters someday if they are being subjected to the same abuse.

 

 

 

The reason I am so interested in this case is that it is always amazing to me that so many people make excuses for someone like Woody Allen, Sandusky, and they get away with things for so long. Most people simply do not want to believe in evil? There is nothing decent about Woody Allen's behavior and yet many famous people work with him and he gets lifetime achievement awards???

 

This is exactly my opinion!  It just boggles the mind how many people will look the other way in these kinds of situations.

[Wildiris]

What does Ronan's parentage have to do with the alleged abuse of Dylan ?

 

Since this is my opinion, I do think it has a lot to do with the character of the mother who may have manipulated a young girl of seven into claiming that she was abused. A thoughtful article that doesn't take sides.

 

If what Dylan says is true, how did Allen get cleared to adopt two children with his current wife?

 

 

Unfortunately, either Allen or Dylan is not telling the truth and we, the public, will never know which one is telling the truth. Facts that balance Vanity Fair article What Should We Talk About When .....

[Laurie4b]

Since this is my opinion, I do think it has a lot to do with the character of the mother who may have manipulated a young girl of seven into claiming that she was abused. A thoughtful article that doesn't take sides.

 

If what Dylan says is true, how did Allen get cleared to adopt two children with his current wife?

 

 

Unfortunately, either Allen or Dylan is not telling the truth and we, the public, will never know which one is telling the truth. Facts that balance Vanity Fair article What Should We Talk About When .....

 

I agree that memory can be manipulated and false memories can be implanted. However, there is a lot of evidence from that time period that corroborates Dylan's memory.

 

What is professionally known about false allegations of abuse is that they typically happen in custody disputes (going on here, so the setting makes it plausible) ; however,  the story is typically about one encounter without the grooming stage, etc. and that's rarely how sexual abuse occurs.

 

We know from the court documents that prior to the custody dispute, while MF and WA were still together,  the family was in family therapy, and we know that the therapist considered WA's behavior "inappropriate" because it was too "intense" and they were working on parent education about appropriate interactions. That means that lack of appropriate boundaries already existed between WA and the child before the custody dispute. Does that mean that there was sexual abuse? Not necessarily, but it makes it very plausible.

 

The day of, the babysitter observed WA with his head in the child's lap, with him kneeling in front of her. That is weird and inappropriate and I cannot think of a benign explanation for that even if there was not overt sexual contact observed. The child said merely that he was "breathing" on her.  Later Dylan was found to have no underwear on.

 

What happened in the attic was not observed by anyone, so yes, a mother could have inflated that. However, Mia originally said to the pediatrician that she hoped this was a fantasy of Dylan's. Not the kind of thing you would say if you were concocting a story.

 

The story was first told to Mia by Dylan and then the adults told Mia corroborating facts.

 

MF's actions in videotaping is exactly the kind of thing most parents do and a good reason NOT to interview your own kid if you suspect sexual abuse. You can implant memories, create fears in the child (including fear of telling the truth) and create trauma for a child that is mildly uncomfortable on their own. (Children's lack of understanding about the meaning of the behavior is often a factor in it not affecting them as much if it is caught early (ie inappropriate touching vs. rape)  and does not involve physical coercion. A parent's understanding of the meaning of the behavior creates certain feelings in the parent which can get conveyed to the child and those feelings can create trauma.) You will definitely create an opening for the defense to say that you have influenced your child's testimony.  Almost every parent does interview their own child, though. It's natural. And they do it "wrong," like MF did.

 

Not all investigators are created equal. Docs without special training can miss physical signs of sexual abuse. however, in MOST cases, there is no physical evidence because there was no damage. So saying that there is no physical evidence is only germane if the account says there was a rape. It would show up in a rape. I won't go into specifics so as not to attract spammers, but you can imagine many kinds of sexual abuse that would not leave any signs.

 

The child was described as uncooperative. Many are. Nowadays in areas in which there are trained people available, children would not be forced to verbalize the story, which is what it sounds like what was offered to Dylan. They are given anatomically correct dolls and can play with them as they wish. The evaluator will often see the abuse acted out that way with the dolls. Drawings are another method used. I can tell you that there are particular details that show up in the drawings that are real clues that are apart from the actual depiction of particular acts (facial expressions, size of things, etc.) MANY 7 year olds wouldn't stick to one story told verbally and many will also want to get out of telling it. I find that part of Dylan's story entirely plausible based on my own experience.

 

The  article said WA passed a lie detector test. Yes, he passed one given privately by someone he hired. He refused one by the state. Private lie detector tests are not typically admitted in court for obvious reasons.

 

I totally disagree with the "What's Relevant?" article that WA's pursuit of Song-yi is not relevant.

[gardenmom5]

 I really do not understand people who bring up Mia's affair with her 70 year old ex as if it were relevant, an excuse for, or some how comparable to A.

 

some have said ronan looks like john farrow - mia's father.  the physical similarity between the two is quite striking.  (more so than the similarity with sinatra.)

[PrincessMommy]

Since this is my opinion, I do think it has a lot to do with the character of the mother who may have manipulated a young girl of seven into claiming that she was abused. A thoughtful article that doesn't take sides.

 

If what Dylan says is true, how did Allen get cleared to adopt two children with his current wife?

 

 

Unfortunately, either Allen or Dylan is not telling the truth and we, the public, will never know which one is telling the truth. Facts that balance Vanity Fair article What Should We Talk About When .....

How did he get cleared? Indeed. The same could be asked about Sandusky too. History has shown us that these types of people get away with it far more often than they should. Hindsight is 20/20 as they say.

[Negin]

Thought to share this. Clues in so many of his movies. 

[Trish]

I was struck by the fact that the incident was originally reported to the babysitter, not the mother.

 

Also that Woody Allen claimed to have never been in the attic due to claustrophobia. Later DNA evidence was found that refuted this, and showed he had been in the attic.

[Laurie4b]

I was struck by the fact that the incident was originally reported to the babysitter, not the mother.

 

Also that Woody Allen claimed to have never been in the attic due to claustrophobia. Later DNA evidence was found that refuted this, and showed he had been in the attic.

 

Where did you see the attic info?

[Trish]

Where did you see the attic info?

 

In the article linked in the first post of this thread, written by Maureen Orth (the late Tim Russert's wife), it is #8 point on her list.

[Laurie4b]

Thought to share this. Clues in so many of his movies. 

 

Wow. That is kind of shocking, isn't it?  How many people joke about incest and sex with underage girls and... ugh.

 

 I remember reading that a guy who wrote a cartoon for Playb-y called Chester the M-l-st-r (trying to avoid attracting spammers) was convicted of incest with his daughter. Just looked it up and his conviction was later overturned because his cartoons were introduced in the trial and that was supposedly a violation of the First Amendment right to freedom of speech. His daughter did not want to go through the trauma of a second trial, so he got off.

 

Who else would think the topic was funny?

[umsami]

In the article linked in the first post of this thread, written by Maureen Orth (the late Tim Russert's wife), it is #8 point on her list.

 

I had no idea she was his wife.  RIP TIm. :(  His death was such a shock.

[Laurie4b]

In the article linked in the first post of this thread, written by Maureen Orth (the late Tim Russert's wife), it is #8 point on her list.

 

:blushing:  Um. I posted that. Yikes! "I spent most of my focused on the court document," she says trying to account for the hole in her memory...

[OH_Homeschooler]

because there have been articles posted here that defended him.   there are people with no connection to any of those involved, defending him, here.   I don't understand why they would do that, how do these accusations affect them?  (or is it becasue they are/were ardent fans and they can't stand the idea they were fans of someone that scummy? in which case, they make it about themselves.)

 

Isn't that true about many topics discussed here? Or are we only to discuss things that personally affect us? That would make this a pretty boring place! And it does seem this case IS relevant to many here. 

[Joanne]

The confusion I have though is that she told sitters that he could not be alone with Dylan long before the abuse allegations were made. OK if you feel that way why is he your boyfriend? If my gut tells me my guy cannot be with my kid then he won't be my guy that seems kinda common sense to me. The mother goes on to say the feelings she had were present when the child was 2-3 years old that's 5 years before this supposedly took place. Why would anyone be with someone 5 years after he makes her feel this way??? I don't know what did or did not happen but the fact she said this makes me feel she was not acting in the best interest of her child at all. She is saying she felt here was issues before this took place yet she is the one who gave it the possibility. If you feel your whatever is a sexual predator you don't tell sitters to watch your kid you get away from that guy. The fact that she stayed with him after admitting she felt this way for years don't give her any credit. If I was the kid and my mom felt this and this happened to me I would HATE my mother more than the abuser.

 

The dynamic that answers these questions are complicated. They are "known" and it's a common pattern. The lack of "get the f___ out of here" upon suspicion does not suggest lack of inappropriateness, based on known psychological patterns.

[Harriet Vane]

The dynamic that answers these questions are complicated. They are "known" and it's a common pattern. The lack of "get the f___ out of here" upon suspicion does not suggest lack of inappropriateness, based on known psychological patterns.

 

Yes.

 

I'll put it in even more plain language.

 

Statistically, most mothers of molested children make choices in the abuser's favor, even in the face of overwhelming evidence of abuse.

[Anne in CA]

Part of the trouble is that women are taught not to trust their instincts. Even other women often poo poo someone who is trying to honestly sort things out. I have a friend who was trying to break up with a crazy abusive man after a few weeks together. She only had instincts at that time and I can remember her SIL telling her she was crazy to break up with such a good looking catch just because he was a perfectionist. That "perfectionist" almost killed her later and threatened to kill her sons from a previous marriage. If only we all had convinced her to listen to her instincts before she became to entangled with him to just leave she might have been spared tremendous pain and her older sons would have the years of their childhood back that the creep stole.

 

Most abusers make sure a woman is firmly entangled in their lives and that leaving will cause a lot of stress. Woody Allen was not just Mia's steady romantic relationship, he was her employer and father of some of her children. Although is a drippy looking little thing he is very powerful in the film industry.

 

I don't think it was right that Mia was allowed to adopt children with him when there were aspects of her life that appear unstable to me before Woody Allen. But the person who pays for the social worker is paying the piper, I guess. I don't look down on Mia Farrow, I just don't think is was in a good place to be a mother and shouldn't have added kids to her chaos. But I get mad at homeless people who drag pets into their lives too, so I guess I am cold hearted when it comes to that sort of thing.

 

[Negin]

Part of the trouble is that women are taught not to trust their instincts. 

 

Most abusers make sure a woman is firmly entangled in their lives and that leaving will cause a lot of stress. Woody Allen was not just Mia's steady romantic relationship, he was her employer and father of some of her children. Although is a drippy looking little thing he is very powerful in the film industry.

 

I don't think it was right that Mia was allowed to adopt children with him when there were aspects of her life that appear unstable to me before Woody Allen. But the person who pays for the social worker is paying the piper, I guess. I don't look down on Mia Farrow, I just don't think is was in a good place to be a mother and shouldn't have added kids to her chaos. But I get mad at homeless people who drag pets into their lives too, so I guess I am cold hearted when it comes to that sort of thing.

Anne, your post is superb, or maybe it's just that I happen to agree with everything you say here :). Thank you. 

[Mrs Mungo]

I thought this was a well written article on the topic with a lot of good points.

 

http://excrementalvirtue.com/2014/02/08/brainwashing-woody/