DragonFaerie Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 DD is in 7th grade in public school, home of the excessive testing. So in 8th grade, the students have to do a writing test as part of the regular annual testing requirement. The school (I don't know if this is district-wide or state-wide or just local) decided to have the 6th and 7th grades do a "mock writing test" in preparation for the real deal next year. Fine. DD came home saying that she didn't do very well because she forgot to include some information that they were supposed to use. No big deal. It was just for practice. Only her teacher has decided that not only will her grade on this "mock" writing test count, but it will count big. According to DD, this "mock" test will count for "several grades." How is that reasonable? The point of this was for the students to practice taking this kind of test and for the teachers to see where they are. WHY would they grade this at all? And WHY would the teacher make it count as a big part of their class grade??? ARGH! I haven't seen DD's grade yet and I don't know how it will be applied with regards to her class grade, but ARGH!!! DD is a straight A honors student, and this learning process could really hurt her grade. (Back story side note: she got a low B last term in this class due to a really low grade on an essay that, combined with another assignment, counted as half of her class grade. The low essay grade was even AFTER she showed her teacher the rough draft and asked how it looked; teacher said it looked fine if DD did x, y, and z. DD neglected to do x, y, and z appropriately, but I don't see how her essay looked "fine" at all given the horrible grade she got. Seems like DD's teacher should have told her she was way off and had lots of work to do if what she saw was a failing essay at the time. Anyway, that's another rant) Obviously I'm annoyed. I wish I could convince DD to come back home, but she really does like school. I'm just concerned and frustrated that stupid things like this will cost her grades. ARGH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom31257 Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 If the students were not told beforehand that it would count as a grade, I would be in the teacher's room asking for it to be taken off the gradebook. If the teacher didn't comply, I'd be in the principal's office. Are all the teacher's doing this with the mock test, or just your dd's teacher? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostSurprise Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Generally I encourage students to negotiate with their teachers themselves...it's an important skill..but make an appointment to speak with her. Topics *it's unusual for one project to be worth 25% of their grade. *did you grade each revision? *who helped revise? was it written or verbal? *how long has this "mock" essay been an assignment? *did students know it was coming ahead of time? did students know it would be graded ahead of time? *were students allowed to prepare? *if they aren't allowed to correct it and they did not know it would be counted ahead of time...is it a test? Don't be aggressive, just ask for information on those 2 assignments--then make up your mind. Remember your daughter has her own POV. I can conceive of the teacher's POV. Certainly it's fair to make a long term writing assignments with revisions worth a larger percentage of the grade. Certainly it's fair to grade an assignment lower if the student does not make the necessary corrections. Whether or not your daughter is a straight A student, 7th grade is a learning time. Students are learning new expectations, time management, organization, following complex directions, teacher questioning and negotiation. Many straight A students stumble a little bit on some of this. Expectations are simply different. Make an appointment and get to know the instructor a little, and how their class works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anne in CA Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 To be honest, problems like that were very common with my oldest when she attended high school. Teachers changing grading criteria, telling her things were fine and then they weren't, ect. That did not seem to happen when she started Honors courses when she was older. Those teachers were much more intentional when correcting rough drafts and they did not change the rules constantly. I think this is more common than you might think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DianeW88 Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Obviously I'm annoyed. I wish I could convince DD to come back home, but she really does like school. I'm just concerned and frustrated that stupid things like this will cost her grades. ARGH. You're the parent. If you want her homeschooled, then homeschool her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonFaerie Posted January 23, 2014 Author Share Posted January 23, 2014 With regards to the first essay assignment (not the mock writing test), there was no rough draft/revision/editing, etc done in class or as part of the assignment. I think the students had a week or so to work on their paper. And I have DD's paper and the grading rubric. I completely understand the things she did wrong and am not arguing the grade. The problem I had with this assignment was 1) that the teacher told her it looked "fine" but she needed to include more information (DD did include more info but not the right info, she ended with her thesis rather than beginning with it and wrote more of a biographical report rather than having her thesis statement drive her paper) but the final paper ended up being a 58. If the rough draft was a 58, that is not "fine but add more information" to me. That is a paper that still needs a lot of work and I think the teacher should have taken the time to go over it with her seeing as how DD took the initiative to ask for feedback. And 2) I hate that this paper was worth 25% of her grade. I understand the whole weighted grades thing, but if they're going to do that, it seems like there should be more than two grades in each of the categories. DD had a 94 (worth 20%), a 90 (worth 30%) and a 78 (two grades, a 90 and that 58, worth 50%). DD says she understands now what she did wrong and doesn't want me to push the issue as it's too late to change anything now anyway (this was posted to the last report card). As for the mock writing test, nothing was said by the school that the grades would be counted. I'll have to ask DD if the teacher told them ahead of time or not. As this is just a writing assessment, it doesn't apply to any other classes. Only LA. And I don't know if the other LA teachers are counting it or not. I suspect that the school is leaving it to the teacher's discretion. There was not really a way to study for this test. When they sat for the essay, they were given a topic and a set amount of time in which to write their essay about the assigned topic. DD recited off a mnemonic (one I've never heard before and don't remember now) about the parts of the essay (or the tools to use or something; I think "experience" was one of them) and said that she only remembered to use three of them during the test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonFaerie Posted January 23, 2014 Author Share Posted January 23, 2014 You're the parent. If you want her homeschooled, then homeschool her. I know. But she is 12 years old, very mature, very motivated, and a really good student. I don't like the idea of arbitrarily pulling her out completely against her wishes. It's not as if her school is dangerous. We discussed things at length before she decided to go back, and she knows she can come home again anytime she wants to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happi duck Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Does thinking of it as a pop quiz help? Doing poorly on a test or assignment is never fun but it does show where one needs to improve. Ime, rough drafts are not graded beyond seeing that there is a completed draft with enough content to move forward. A fine rough draft is not the same as a fine final product...again just in my experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom31257 Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Does thinking of it as a pop quiz help? Doing poorly on a test or assignment is never fun but it does show where one needs to improve. Ime, rough drafts are not graded beyond seeing that there is a completed draft with enough content to move forward. A fine rough draft is not the same as a fine final product...again just in my experience. Pop quizzes don't normally count as several grades, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom31257 Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Does thinking of it as a pop quiz help? Doing poorly on a test or assignment is never fun but it does show where one needs to improve. Ime, rough drafts are not graded beyond seeing that there is a completed draft with enough content to move forward. A fine rough draft is not the same as a fine final product...again just in my experience. Pop quizzes don't normally count as several grades, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonFaerie Posted January 23, 2014 Author Share Posted January 23, 2014 Does thinking of it as a pop quiz help? Doing poorly on a test or assignment is never fun but it does show where one needs to improve. Ime, rough drafts are not graded beyond seeing that there is a completed draft with enough content to move forward. A fine rough draft is not the same as a fine final product...again just in my experience. That's true about the rough draft. And it really is a non-issue at this point. It was an annoyance, but it's done. DD learned from it and we move on. I only brought it up because it's the same teacher, same class. Pop quizzes don't normally count as several grades, though. And this was a "mock" writing test. The word "mock" does not imply an important grade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 I know. But she is 12 years old, very mature, very motivated, and a really good student. I don't like the idea of arbitrarily pulling her out completely against her wishes. It's not as if her school is dangerous. We discussed things at length before she decided to go back, and she knows she can come home again anytime she wants to. It wouldn't be arbitrary. It would be for good reasons. But that aside, the actual grade is in 7th grade, right? It won't count on a transcript. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonFaerie Posted January 23, 2014 Author Share Posted January 23, 2014 It wouldn't be arbitrary. It would be for good reasons. But that aside, the actual grade is in 7th grade, right? It won't count on a transcript. Yes, it's 7th grade. If these issues are good reasons to pull her out, I guess throwing in all the problems we had with the band director and the fact that she leaves school early one day a week to go to a homeschool band program now only compounds the issue, huh? LOL... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonFaerie Posted January 23, 2014 Author Share Posted January 23, 2014 AARRGGHH!!! (Sorry. Screaming was in order.) DD says that yes, they knew the mock test would count. But now, I'm finding out that the essays are being graded (using a rubric) by the students!!! Yep. This important test is being graded by another kid, and then they'll also get a grade based on how well they graded someone else's essay. Utter stupidity! On the plus side, DD is saying now that she wants to come back home for next school year. I think this is really frustrating to her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom31257 Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Crazy, huh? Maybe teachers have too much to grade. I'm glad she is thinking of coming back home. Because dh is a teacher, it's really frustrating when they start talking about teachers' pay and job reviews including student assessments. You better not make anyone mad at you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom31257 Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Crazy, huh? Maybe teachers have too much to grade. I'm glad she is thinking of coming back home. Because dh is a teacher, it's really frustrating when they start talking about teachers' pay and job reviews including student assessments. You better not make anyone mad at you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happi duck Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 At cc we've run across students receiving a grade for grading another student's essay. I assume the teacher must also read the essay and the evaluation in order to grade both...or grade the evaluation and verify the grade the student gave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caroline Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 AARRGGHH!!! (Sorry. Screaming was in order.) DD says that yes, they knew the mock test would count. But now, I'm finding out that the essays are being graded (using a rubric) by the students!!! Yep. This important test is being graded by another kid, and then they'll also get a grade based on how well they graded someone else's essay. Utter stupidity! On the plus side, DD is saying now that she wants to come back home for next school year. I think this is really frustrating to her. Are you sure the teacher isn't grading them, too? I would bet they get the teacher's grade as the essay grade and grading someone else's essay (looking for good writing) is another grade. How would the teacher know how well the student graded the essay unless she also graded the essay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
City Mouse Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 I don't see what the big deal is (except maybe the part where students are grading). She new it was for a grade, and you say she knows what she forgot to include. Perhaps she can ask the teacher for some extra help with her writing if she isn't doing as well as you think she should. The mock testing sounds very similar to how things were done in our district in Texas except that they did one of these writing samples every grading period. Personally, I don't have any problem with a B average. I judge my kids on their effort not on the report card grade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 I would try not to get worked up until after you know what grade she actually got. I also would try not to get worked up about her having straight As. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonFaerie Posted January 23, 2014 Author Share Posted January 23, 2014 The straight As are a big deal for her. They have a reward system at the school and she really wanted to make the top tier by having straight As for two terms in a row. I'm not upset with her about either grade. I know she's trying hard. And I don't intend to go to the teacher, at least not yet. I want to wait and see what grade she gets, what feedback she gets from the teacher about it, and how much it really counts in the grand scheme of things. By why call it a "mock" writing test when it actually was a graded writing test? There wasn't anything "mock" about it except that it wasn't the state standardized test. But it was still a real test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomatHWTK Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Honestly, it sounds like if your DD wants to stay in ps and wants to be a straight A student, she's going to have to improve her writing skills. Would she have worked harder if the teacher hadn't said the essay was 'fine', could she have done better? Would she have worked harder, remembered the extra steps, if the test hadn't been called 'mock'? Regardless of what it was called, your DD is saying she knew it was graded, right? It sounds like to me, you just aren't wanting the essay writing portions to count as much as they do because your DD is weak in those areas. I imagine the parents of kids who test poorly but write well would feel the same if the positions were reversed. This class is hard for your DD and she doesn't understand what the teacher wants, those aren't unique problems to have. KWIM? I certainly know the feeling, classes like PE, typing and even Driver's Ed were killers for my high school GPA. Physics and Geometry weren't my strenghts either. Other kids could pull off A's in those classesI couldn't. Those were the straight A kids. In college, I learned to avoid those types of classes. When the teacher gets to make the calls, you either avoid, or step up your game. In hindsight, I would have gotten more for my $ in college had I worked harder at stepping up my game. Either way, I survived. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RanchGirl Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 I would not worry about the grade because it's 7th grade, not going on a transcript, and it sounds like she earned this grade anyway. Unless she was told in advance that the mock writing test counted for nothing or a small %, then I would have a problem with the change to it suddenly being a large % of the grade. But above all, I would be either homeschooling or afterschooling to improve writing skills because you have mentioned two papers that she didn't do well on and she is otherwise a strong student. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 I think I would schedule a meeting with the teacher. It sounds like the teacher is not communicating and if she's not communicating then she isn't teaching and the students cannot be expected to learn. 1. Students must be informed ahead of time that assignments are graded. Students must be informed of the value of the assignment ahead of time. One important skill that students can get out of school is prioritizing. If a student knows an assignment has a value then he knows he must prepare. If the student knows a history assignment will count for 30% of his grade and a math assignment will count for 2% (typical of a homework problem set), then the student knows he should not spend the whole evening perfecting his math, but he should spend the bulk of his evening study on history. A teacher not informing students makes it impossible for the student to properly prepare for the assignment. 2. It doesn't sound like the teacher is giving rubrics of what she is expecting to see. Without a rubric, how is the teacher communicating what she wants to see from the student? Do the students actually know? Because if they do not know what is expected then most of the writing they do this year with this teacher is a waste of time. There will be some students who already know how to write well and the rest will be spending the year making the same mistakes over and over. When I was in middle school (36 years ago aack!) I had an English teacher who required a certain number of book reports each grading period (to make sure we read outside of the typical literature selections in the curriculum). I remember she was very specific (a D would have elements 1 and 2, a C would have 1, 2, and 3, a B would have 1, 2, 3 and 4 and an A would have 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5). I remember looking at the rubric each time like a checklist to make sure it was all there. The same teacher had rubrics for other assignments. If we were doing paragraph writing the rubric would list things like X number of sentences, topic sentence, Y number of sentences supporting the topic, each support sentence based on a different fact, concluding sentence. She would do the same things for essays (x number of paragraphs, etc). The writing rubric can be a key tool for students to learn to organize their thoughts and make sure they present their ideas completely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonFaerie Posted January 23, 2014 Author Share Posted January 23, 2014 DD says that they knew the writing test would be graded and that they needed to do their best on it, though they were not told the weight of the grade (we still don't know that). They were not given a rubric. I agree that DD clearly needs more instruction in writing. She definitely earned these grades. I just don't like the way these two assignments were handled. That's all. The mock writing test is supposed to be practice for the state 8th grade writing test. Now instead of a learning tool, this mock test feels like a punishment for not already being prepared to take the 8th grade test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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