Hey carseat gurus...

[PeterPan]

I have a Radian XTSL and my boy is  newly 5.  He uses it forward facing with the 5 point harness.  The straps are in the next to top slot (so one more available above) and then fall under/below his shoulders.  He's been growing, and I want to make sure one whether I'm using it correctly or need to move the slots up (can't remember whether they are supposed to be over or under the shoulders!) AND whether/when I might switch him from 5 point to seatbelt.  The seat is installed with the super latch and tethers.  I'm extremely careful about this and can move the whole car with it, haha.  

 

With winter coming, we have coats, blah blah.  We always go out to the car in the coat, take it off, get in the 5 point, go to destination, put on coat to go to the building...  If I switch him from 5 point to seatbelt, then he can wear his coat in the car?  This would be a wool peacoat, not something super puffy but bulky enough that it doesn't fit under the 5 point harness.  Or should he remain in the 5 point much longer?  

 

Oh, and I'm in Ohio.  I don't actually know what the law is on 5 points, mercy.  I just kept him in, knowing I was complying.  I don't know anymore when you can change and go to a booster or anything else, because they keep changing stuff.  That I can figure out.  What I don't know is how that compares to the manufacturer recs and what the gurus think is safe.  (I know the law is usually the minimum.)

 

So what do you do with your 5 yo in winter?  5 point or seatbelt?  Coat, no coat?  So far we've been very careful, and we can continue to be.  I just didn't know what our options were.  

 

Thanks!   :)

 

Editing to add: Does the Radian turn into a booster with just the base??  I'm checking the laws here, and it says 4 years and 40 pounds must be in a safety seat.  He's 39 pounds.  Yeah, he's skinny.  So we feed him, he plumps up, then what?  Keep in the radian? Switch how we use it?

 

Here's a link to the Ohio laws.  http://www.nationwidechildrens.org/cirp-child-passenger-safety

[zoobie]

Forward facing, the straps should be ABOVE the shoulders.

 

Check your car's weight limits on LATCH and tethers. Some are kid weight and some kid + seat weight. I think our Pilot has a 40lb LATCH limit.

 

Coat is a personal comfort level thing. Some people won't do anything heavier than a fleece. Some are good with a wool coat because the straps can still be tight. You don't want the coat to compress in a crash and leave wiggle room.

 

I'd keep him in the 5-point. My kids were able to buckle themselves in a 5-point, but wrangling the belt through the shoulder clip and getting it fastened without the seatbelt locking up took much longer. For the coat, I usually had the kids wear it to the car, take it off, buckle up, and put it on backwards. But we live in GA and don't need COATS often. :)

 

I believe the Radian is a high back booster and does not convert to backless, but I'm not totally sure. I'm still using mine rear-facing and had Britaxes with my older kids. At 39 lbs and 5, I'd keep him in the high back (at least) for the side impact protection too.

[happypamama]

My 5yo is in a 5-PT. harness, and if it is cold enough that he needs a thick coat, he takes it off before buckling his seat. I will keep him in the harness as long as he fits in it. In our state (PA), a child has to be 4 and 40 pounds to be out of the harness, but I keep them in the harness as long as they fit into it. In all fairness, though, my 5yo is partly still in the harness because his spot is the one with only a lap belt, so the older two kids can't go there, and it is in the middle of the third row, so the two rear-facing babies can't go there either. 5yo's seat is the only one that can fit there. But I would probably keep him in it anyway, because it is safer. He does ride with a booster occasionally in DH's little car.

[Desert Strawberry]

The straps should be above his shoulders.

 

At 39 pounds, I would stay with the harness a bit longer if you can. My 4yo is 34 pounds fully dressed. He will be harnessed forever. I only just turned him forward facing a few months ago. 

 

 

Depending on height -he sounds tall- he could probably go into a booster any time. My tall, skinny then 5yo fit great in a Track Turbo high back. . I would not go backless with one so young. They tend to lean and flop too much for a good fit in a regular belt.

 

I have little experience with cold weather gear. I will let someone else answer that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mommy22alyns]

He should stay in the 5 pt. for a while longer.  Coats in a 5 pt. are a definite no-no.  And FF, straps should be above the shoulders.

[Wilma]

My bigger girls (6 y/o and 8 y/o) recently switched from 5-pt to the seat belt / booster in their Radian seats, and it's plenty easy.  They were able to buckle their own selves in the 5-pt and they're able to buckle their own selves in the seat belt / booster.  My people that are still 5-pointing it in their Radian seats take off their coats, buckle up, and then put the coats on backwards or ditch them altogether.  The people in the booster situations just wear the coats.  Or just as likely nobody wears any coat because they can't be bothered and we live in Austin.  But if they WERE wearing a coat, that's what would happen.

[blondeviolin]

Typically, forward facing means at or above the shoulders. BUT, some radians allow the top slots to fall below the shoulders and still safe use of the harness. Check your user's manual. Ours all allow this.

 

Even my 7.5yo is still in a 5pt. She'll probably move to a booster when we take the trek to Alaska next summer. All but the youngest two can unbuckle their radians.

[PeterPan]

Forward facing, the straps should be ABOVE the shoulders.

 

Check your car's weight limits on LATCH and tethers. Some are kid weight and some kid + seat weight. I think our Pilot has a 40lb LATCH limit.

 

...

I'd keep him in the 5-point. My kids were able to buckle themselves in a 5-point, ...

I believe the Radian is a high back booster ...

 

I TOTALLY had not thought about the weight limit on the LATCH!  I did some research and got very confusing results about it varying with the model and that specs may or may not include the weight of the carseat, oy.  So it seems like 48pounds in the common number and that could include the seat, which means with a few more pounds we really have to switch to booster mode.  And you're right, he can buckle the 5 point himself, which is easier for me than climbing in and over him.  I can't figure out if my Radian is cool as a booster.  I THOUGHT it was when I bought it, but I'm not seeing it in the manual when I googled for the pdf.

 

Never fear, I'm not gonna let him go out till I get the straps fixed!  Bummer is, the seat it, well let's just say it's an exercise in frustration to install or reinstall and I do it as seldom as possible, ugh.  

 

My bigger girls (6 y/o and 8 y/o) recently switched from 5-pt to the seat belt / booster in their Radian seats, and it's plenty easy.  

So how do I know if my model of Radian can be used as a booster?  It's the XTSL I think.  When I pulled up the pdf manual online, no mention.  

 

Typically, forward facing means at or above the shoulders. BUT, some radians allow the top slots to fall below the shoulders and still safe use of the harness. Check your user's manual. Ours all allow this.

 

Hmm, the pdf manual I pulled up for the XTSL when I googled said at or above.  But maybe I got the wrong one?  The XTSL was brand new out when ds was little.  I got it as soon as it hit the market and we've used it ever since.  I think when I move the harness up to the top slots he'll get some more use out of it.  Yes, he's long-waisted.  I'll have to see him in it in the mornig to know how it works out and whether the top slots make it work or not.  

[PentecostalMom]

My 7yo (will be 8 in March) is in a 5-point and will stay until she outgrows it.  We use Britax Frontier 85.  Both my 4yo and 7yo are in them.  They convert to a high back booster, then a booster without the back.

[Acorn]

You don't have to switch to booster seat because of the 48lb LATCH limit.  You just need to install the seat with a seatbelt. 

[PeterPan]

You don't have to switch to booster seat because of the 48lb LATCH limit.  You just need to install the seat with a seatbelt. 

I did finally figure that out as I've been reading tonight.  What I'm not sure about is how much longer he'll fit in the Radian using the 5 pt harness.  I can't tell that till he wakes up in the morning...  I also can't find anything in the pdf manual indicating that the radian xtsl can be used as a booster.  I'm kind of disgusted about this, because I thought it could.  Means I have all this money into it and then am going to have to replace. I won't know *when* until he wakes up.  But if I replace with something with a 5 point and a larger shoulder height (Britax Frontier, whatever), that's very ouch $$$.  If I replace and go Grace TurboBooster I lose the 5-point.  

 

Now to go do the un-fun thing and uninstall the seat.  It is SUCH a bear.  Reading the manual, I also figured out there's a thing you have to remove when they hit 40 pounds, so that's another thing I have to do.  

[PeterPan]

My 7yo (will be 8 in March) is in a 5-point and will stay until she outgrows it.  We use Britax Frontier 85.  Both my 4yo and 7yo are in them.  They convert to a high back booster, then a booster without the back.

Ok, this is very wow ladies.  I hadn't seen this click-tight thing!   :hurray:  :hurray:  :hurray:  Blowing my mind.  No more pushing in, pulling, contorting, nothing?  Just literally put it in like the video on amazon shows?!?!  Crazy.  But the price, the price...  And I'd be making that effort so my kid could stay in 5-point?  Was this out 4 1/2 years ago and I just missed it?  See he outgrew his infant seat pretty young and went right into the radian rear-facing.  The Radian XTSL seemed like it was going to be one seat and done, all the way through booster.  Now that I'm here, I'm seeing him max out on height and I can't figure out if I can even use it as a booster.  So meanwhile the manufacturers are making units to keep them in 5 point longer?  Wild.  Might even be smart considering, ahem, how wiggly he is.  He's 50/50 on the charts for height and weight, not a big boy, just a big long-waisted for his proportions and with a big head.  The Graco Turbo would be half the price and give up the 5 point...  Sigh...

[PeterPan]

Ok, I figured it out.  The Frontier doesn't rear-face, does it?  That was the deal and why I went Radian at the time, because I was trying to keep him rear-facing and then have it continue forward facing.  It actually worked out really well, as he was able to rear-face till about 3 1/2 before it was just impractical anymore for his dimensions.  Maybe I've lost track of time?  Hehe, I'm sure I have.  I know we didn't rear-face as long as I had intended to but longer than we could have otherwise.  Anyways, it seemed a good choice at the time.  

 

Well disgusting.  If I had more kids coming, I'd just hand-me-down and not feel bad.  Not so cool when there's no likelihood of that, hmph.  I can give it away I suppose.  How long is my Radian XTL good for?  I read somewhere 7 years.  

 

So I raise the harness straps and make the radian work.  I guess I'll tackle that first.  It's very confusing to me that they say have the straps at or above the shoulders but then give this top of the unit marker for outgrowing.  I need to get him in and see where his ears hit.  Then I'll deal with the what-ifs, when I see how he actually fits.  I clearly wasn't paying enough attention.  Glad I asked and thanks for setting me straight!  I'll get back to you in the morning once I get him in.  :)

[PeterPan]

Ok, after a bit more reading (and rereading!), it says in the Radian XTSL manual that once you hit the top slot you can stay in the seat (FF) until tops of the ears are above the back of the seat.  So at that point the slot is lower but you're still ok.  That 20.5" slot though on the Frontier is seriously impressive!  So what's the scoop on Pinnacle vs. Frontier?  

 

Well I'll get my butt out now, FREEZE TO DEATH IN THE GARAGE, and see if I can get this thing fixed and reinstalled.  Ugh, next kid, Britax.  They have their heads on straight about how to install carseats.

[PeterPan]

Ok, are y'all sick of me yet?  Crazy question.  How often does Britax put out new carseats?  So for instance if ds has an inch to go in the Radian (which we'll see in the morning) and I'm thinking Frontier/Pinnacle after that, then maybe there would be a new model coming out in like March or something?  Do they release yearly/consistently?  I'm just looking at release dates from 2013 and wondering what they'll be for 2014 and whether new models are coming...  If he has an inch to go, I could wait a few months and get in on a new model and any improvements they make...

[beaners]

I know nothing about the Pinnacle vs Frontier. I don't know how often they come out with new models, but I feel like they just switched the Frontier 85 for the 90.  My 4 year old is in an 85 I bought over the summer, and I don't even see them listed on Amazon anymore. We usually buy expensive things like that on Amazon because we can buy Amazon gift cards from the grocery store and get money off gas.

 

We switched to the Britaxs because my kids have ridiculously long torsos. I'd rather keep them in 5-points while I can.

 

 

[PeterPan]

Get this.  So I go out and shiver, unlatching, preparing to move the (insert not so happy word) the harnesses, and then I think to go measure the spare carseat we bought and keep installed in dh's truck for them to have guy time...  That baby, nothing fancy (Evenflo, walmart, bought it and it's supposed to be safe) carseat has slots to 18"!!!!  My radian only has 15.5", and it appears the allowing them to go to their ears is debatable.  So they can ride in the truck tomorrow I guess, because on that one it's installed with the slot an inch higher, which means it may fit him right.  I know the radian slot is too low, and I can hardly do the straps and don't have the courage in this cold.  

 

I guess another carseat is in our future.  Oy.  And here I thought I had been so brilliant and got one to last us all the way.   :svengo: 

[PeterPan]

I know nothing about the Pinnacle vs Frontier. I don't know how often they come out with new models, but I feel like they just switched the Frontier 85 for the 90.  My 4 year old is in an 85 I bought over the summer, and I don't even see them listed on Amazon anymore. We usually buy expensive things like that on Amazon because we can buy Amazon gift cards from the grocery store and get money off gas.

 

We switched to the Britaxs because my kids have ridiculously long torsos. I'd rather keep them in 5-points while I can.

Yup, we'll see how he measures in the morning.  I don't know how long he'll have in the radian when I move him up.  If he's already with his shoulders at the 15", I'll go ahead and figure something out sooner, rather than waiting.  The prices on them are really good right now on amazon, because they've been out a while.  If he has an inch to grow in the radian, I'll wait.

 

I just never dreamed he'd come close to outgrowing it so soon.  I thought it was going to last till like 8!  But we'll see.  No more worries till I measure and see him in it again.  

[beaners]

Those Evenflo seats are really good for their cost. We have one of them too.  LOL I have four in carseats or boosters, so we have a lot of seats! My 3 year old is soooo close to outgrowing it and moving into a Britax too.  He's above 95% percentile for his height.  I just bought his older sister her final seat this summer, and here I am about to do it again.

[PeterPan]

I'm back!  I got him in it this morning, and the top slot on the Radian is about 1/2" above his shoulders.  So that's now all fixed, installed tightly, snug as a bug.  But get this.  I popped him in the Evenflo to compare, and even though the highest slot on it is 2+" higher than the radian when you just measure, when you put him in the seat it's still basically just 1/2-1" above his shoulders!  Crazy.  But the Evenflow I think is the maestro, not sure.  Whatever it is, it has slots to use as a booster with a seatbelt, meaning we can just change over to the belt for it, no prob, when he's above the slot.

 

So now the debate begins!  On the Radian XTSL it *claims* you can use it all the way up till something about your ears and the top of your seat and stay harnessed (per diagram in manual).  That would put him like 5" longer in the torso, which would put the straps way under his shoulders, WAY.  Admittedly, he's a bit long-waisted and grows out his shirts in length before arms or chest.  So I assume that's what we're seeing there?  Anyways, I can't fathom leaving him with the straps way below his shoulders when it wasn't safe when he was 2" shorter.  That's bizarre.  Or maybe Radian has stats and it IS safe?  Any techs know?  Tops of his ears are 5" below the top of the seat with wings fully up.  Hold it, maybe that top of seat thing means the top of the actual unit, not the top of the wings?!?!  More confusion.  I'll go pull the manual again! 

 

Then what I don't know is the functional butt to shoulder length on the Britax Frontier/Pinnacle units.  They're saying 20.5, but then the Evenflow measures 17.5, almost 18" when you just measure it and ends up sitting pretty close to the same as the 15.5 of the Radian.  Maybe I can find one in stock in the big city.  That would be the only way to know.  I think I'd prefer to keep him in 5pt harness longer, given that he falls asleep, given that he's all boy.  I'll try to find one in the big city and get him into it to see.  At least I know I have some time since the Radian can fit a bit longer.  

 

Well I thought y'all would be relieved to know he's going to church safely, in a seat that now has the straps properly done.   :)

 

PS.  When I bought my Radian XTSL, I *thought* the deal was it could be used as a booster.  Now that I'm getting to that time, I can't find any evidence of it in the manual.  What am I missing?  Maybe it was just wishful thinking and looking at all those weights and thinking it would get me through the booster stage?

[Wilma]

I'm not really sure what kind if Radian seats we have, but they're definitely booster-able. There is a little seat belt router (on one it's red, the other three are grey) that you slide the shoulder belt through - they're both sides. It just positions the seat belt correctly so it wouldn't decapitate in an accident. Does yours not have the seat belt spot?

[PeterPan]

Nope, I checked on the unit itself and in the owners manual.  The Radian XTSL does *not* have the routers to use it as a booster with a seatbelt.  The newer models do.  My ds is 5, and I've been using this for at least 3 years.  The XTSL was brand new to the market when I got it.  They just keep adding features.  

 

So it looks like I either have to stomach having the straps below his shoulders soon but his ears below the top of the unit, which fits with the specs the unit gives, or I have to move on to something else.  I have to move on anyway.  He's approaching the limit on the LATCH, and I won't use a belt with this unit.  It's a stinking bear to install anyway, let alone trying to thread a belt.  

 

So when the Britax units come out and they have these really high prices ($370, blah blah), does someone immediately mark them down or offer deals or is there a time lag?  Right now the Frontiers are dramatically lower than their list retail.  I'm trying to see how long it would be till new models of the Frontier/Pinnacle would come back down to the range they're at now...  I have a bit of time I can wait.  Just seems like every time they release a new one of these, they add new features!  Bummer is, if it weren't for the 5point, the price on that Graco Turbobooster is amazing, wow.

[blondeviolin]

Britax runs sales semi-annually. They've just redesigned most of their seats in the last few years and doubt much will change for the foreseeable future. Your best bet would be to find a sale from an independently store. Albeebaby and amazon sometimes have lower prices. FWIW, once you go Britax, it's hard to do anything else and be happy.

[Wilma]

That's a bummer!  Getting a new seat this late in the car-seat game is a drag.  :crying:

[PeterPan]

That's a bummer!  Getting a new seat this late in the car-seat game is a drag.  :crying:

Nope, it's not a big deal.  In our state you have to be IN A BOOSTER until your 8 years and 80 pounds.  My boy is 50th percentile for height and weight, so it's gonna be a long time before he hits that.  I assume he'll get 3 years of use out of whatever I buy.

 

Edited to add: I looked at him in the Radian some more, and I'm going to keep going with it till the straps are below his shoulders and it seems time to move on.  I think it will actually get narrow in the shoulders at some point too.  If we can buy another 6 months, I might just put him straight into the seatbelt kind and be done with it.  I think you're right Wilma that $250 is a lot to spend to get someone into a harness.  Safety is good, but maybe if we stick it out another 6+ months and edge toward 6, then just going to the belt makes more sense?  Would save a ton of money.

[Desert Strawberry]

My oldest is very big. 80-90th percentile height and weight. He moved out of a harness at 7 and out of a booster at 9. My 7 yo is 75th for height. He just went to a backless booster because he is so long through the torso. 

You will get lots of use out of whatever you buy now.

For mine, I went from the toddler seat to the high back booster. The price difference is tremendous. There is some debate about back stress of harnessing older kids. They may be better off in a booster. I couldn't see spending 4 times as much for a seat he might only fit for a couple of months, when the safety has not been proven.

[PeterPan]

My oldest is very big. 80-90th percentile height and weight. He moved out of a harness at 7 and out of a booster at 9. My 7 yo is 75th for height. He just went to a backless booster because he is so long through the torso. 

You will get lots of use out of whatever you buy now.

For mine, I went from the toddler seat to the high back booster. The price difference is tremendous. There is some debate about back stress of harnessing older kids. They may be better off in a booster. I couldn't see spending 4 times as much for a seat he might only fit for a couple of months, when the safety has not been proven.

Do you happen to have a link or place I can look?  I've clearly gotten out of the loop!  

[craftyerin]

Well, I'm no guru, but my twin 5yos ride in high back boosters. My best friend IS a guru (CPST) and she's 100% comfortable with my kids in boosters, so I am, too. If I were you, when your Radian is outgrown, I'd buy a Graco Turbobooster and move him over.

 

I live in the Deep South, though, and a fleece is all we ever need, so I'm no help on cold weather gear.

[vonfirmath]

Honestly -- boosters are cheap. I never have put "seat turns into a booster" into my calculations. I figured I'd buy a cheap booster when the time came

 

(DS is now in a Highback Turbobooster.)

 

[NatashainDFW]

The seat you have has a 17 inch highest harness slot. It harness to 80 pounds and 53 inches. I would say you have quite a bit of time before he outgrows it honestly. The seat expires 8 years after manufacture. By the time he outgrows the current seat he will likely be just fine in a high back booster which are fairly inexpensive. 

 

Here is the link with this info https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvfUm4x64h3AdFZ0c0pkbkRlV1hfeklSWmpZY0kweEE&hl=en#gid=0 and it is provided by CPST over at Car Seats for the Littles you can find them on Facebook and they can help reassure you if needed.

[athomeontheprairie]

I didn't read all the answers. each of my kids have a heavy blanket in the van from October through March. they can take off their coats to buckle if needed, and they have a warm blanket to cover up with. this is how we solved that problem years ago

[PeterPan]

rjones, good point!  I had totally forgotten about this!  When he was young he had a fleecy baby blanket we used for this.  He's a little too long for it now, hehe...  

 

Well I'm doing some checking on this.  Turns out TRUS will pricematch amazon, so I'm just going to go see things.  He's so skinny, I'm not sure he's ready for that Graco Turbo.  (I think he'd slosh from side to side.)  The Radian I'm antsy about, after reading the superlatch stuff, and of course we're hitting the limit on the LATCH anyway.  I'm thinking, if he likes it when we go to the store, we'll go Frontier.  What I don't know is whether kids continue to like it when you use it as a booster...

[PeterPan]

Well I'm back.  I thought about this some more and realized the simplest solution is to switch the Radian over to the seatbelt installation.  Solves the issue of hitting the limit on LATCH, keeps him in a harness what might be several months to a year (or more) longer, depending on how he grows, and saves me money.  So that's what I'm going to do, that and get a blanket put out there to keep him warm.  :)

 

Thanks ladies!!!  :)

[Dahliarw]

I personally am not comfortable going over, knowing how the physics work, even if the radian says it's ok.  They don't test car seats at high speeds (they test at 35mph).  I would see how long it takes him to hit the top slot being even with his shoulder and then see what age/weight he is at.  Most kids can sit properly in a booster by the time they are 6.  There is no data that shows harnessing is safer for an older child, or that a booster is safer. Parental decision.  Sweden, where they keep kids rfing utnil 4 and have the lowest rate of deaths in vehicle crashes for children, go straight to boosters after the seat is outgrown rfing and they believe ffing harnessing is not safe.

[PeterPan]

I personally am not comfortable going over, knowing how the physics work, even if the radian says it's ok.  They don't test car seats at high speeds (they test at 35mph).  I would see how long it takes him to hit the top slot being even with his shoulder and then see what age/weight he is at.  Most kids can sit properly in a booster by the time they are 6.  There is no data that shows harnessing is safer for an older child, or that a booster is safer. Parental decision.  Sweden, where they keep kids rfing utnil 4 and have the lowest rate of deaths in vehicle crashes for children, go straight to boosters after the seat is outgrown rfing and they believe ffing harnessing is not safe.

Well that's fascinating!  And yeah, if they only tested the Radian at 35 mph, that's pretty disgusting.  So I think that's the plan, to let him grow till his shoulder hits the slot and then switch him over to a regular booster.  Thanks for the info!  :)

[Dahliarw]

Well that's fascinating!  And yeah, if they only tested the Radian at 35 mph, that's pretty disgusting.  So I think that's the plan, to let him grow till his shoulder hits the slot and then switch him over to a regular booster.  Thanks for the info!   :)

 

ALL US car seats are tested at 35mph.  That's why there was a huge hullabaloo a few years back when Consumer Reports tested them at higher speeds.

[PeterPan]

Ah, gotcha.  Still is disgusting, since people are driving more than double that on the highways now.

[Desert Strawberry]

Especially when a huge number of infant seats failed at 70mph. Terrifying.