Needed insight into complex family/educational situation

[AMDG]

We homeschooled our oldest son for K last year, and he did great. We've always wanted to HS, and I think I bought my copy of TWM when he was just a baby. Now our children's ages are DS7, DS4, DS2, DD 10 mos. What our family didn't anticipate was that last year when our DD was born, she was hospitalized several times, then later diagnosed with a rare syndrome. 

 

Basically, our whole family life has been turned upside down with doctor visits, hospitalizations, therapy, phone calls, etc., to care for our daughter. We started in earnest our school year this year, but by October I knew I couldn't do it, and we sent our DS7 to first grade. It was the most difficult decision my husband and I have ever made. 

 

Unschooling really doesn't work in our house, because while DS7 is very bright and capable, he needs to be engaged ALL the time, or else he bothers his little brothers, or gets himself into trouble, etc. There is an enormous amount of distraction in our house right now, and I needed to be at DS's side for EVERYTHING or else he would lose track...even with a simple handwriting worksheet. 

 

My views on homeschooling are very strong, and I believe we will return to it once our life is able to handle it, right now it's just lost priority to my daughter's health. What I want to know, is when can children be more or less independent in their work? By that I mean, online curriculum, or things of that nature. If we are ever able to return to homeschooling, it would be more in this mode. I definitely want to and can be involved in the education, but if it's at home, I need the kids to be able to really work on their own. At what age does this happen? What types of curriculum can I delegate? My thought process is that my DD within three years will begin much of her education through the public school, and that will free up a bit more of my time, but even once she is school-aged, managing her care will always require a lot from me, and my children will need to work through that. (On days when I'm on the phone, gone for therapy and doctor visits).  

 

How can I plan on doing this in the future? They need to be able to learn at home but without me at their side. Please tell me there is a way. 

 

 

 

*my siggy is wrong, FYI

[rdj2027]

I think it depends on the individual child.  I have a 10 year old who works mostly independently and a 12 year old who needs handholding all the way.  My 14 year old now works independently and was always willing to do so but due to some issues he did not really manage to do his work well until rather recently.

[SebastianCat]

I also think it depends on the child and their personality.   My DS is 11 and has worked very well independently for several years now, as long as he is given a list of assignments.  He likes to time himself and see if he can beat his earlier "record" for getting schoolwork done.   

 

My DD, who is 9, needs more handholding, but she has improved greatly in the past year or so.   She has days where she works very well, and other days are full of drama.   Some days she's pretty diligent, while others she's totally distracted.   

 

I would say that 3rd grade, or age 8-9, has been a turning point for my kids, where they made a lot of progress toward more independent learning.

[EKS]

It depends on the child, as the others have said.  But it also depends on the type of work.  If you give work below the child's instructional level, he will be able to be independent with it at a younger age. 

[OneStepAtATime]

Definitely depends on the child but also the material.  My son was pulled out of school during 2nd grade. He had done great in school until then but had a really, really toxic year.  We had him continue the text books from school for the remainder of the year, which he hated and I wish I hand't done but he did them, he just needed help from me to get through them.  We also put him on Time for Learning for 2nd grade.  Was it a rigorous educational program?  Nope.  But it gave him independence.  He blew through the entire 2nd grade curriculum in 2 1/2 months with very little input from me.  It gave him confidence and some good practice.  He also completed the brick and mortar school assignments but I helped out with those.  3rd grade Time for Learning did not work for him and I had switched our primary curriculum to something more teacher intensive so he was not able to do as much independently that nest year

 

Now, we have a balance.  We do some curriculum as a group, but the kids do typing lessons, vocabulary building and sometimes math and music either with our on-line subscriptions or with DVD's (Teaching Textbooks for additional math work) that also track grades, etc.  Helps balance the day so they have some independence but we also do things together.   Kids are 9 and 13 and certainly as they have gotten older they have grown more independent but age didn't seem to be as big a factor as personality and material and how I structure our day....

 

 

[dancingmama]

I have a medically complex child so I understand somewhat what you are going through, although mine is the oldest of two. We actually decided to homeschool because of his issues. With his doctor/therapist schedule, I couldn't be sure I would be home to pick up daughter or be available to even send her in if an appt was early.

 

We did unschool through their 3rd grade. They did do Time4Learning one year but I basically did a lot of car schooling.

 

But you asked about independent work. My son has never been able to do independent work. He decided to go to school this year and seems to be doing ok but still requires lots of redirection. My daughter was independent up until she turned 9. Now she's needy. It really depends on the kid. I'd say once your child is able to do his homework independently, he'll probably be able to do more of his schoolwork independently.

[....]

Unschooling really doesn't work in our house, because while DS7 is very bright and capable, he needs to be engaged ALL the time, or else he bothers his little brothers, or gets himself into trouble, etc. There is an enormous amount of distraction in our house right now, and I needed to be at DS's side for EVERYTHING or else he would lose track...even with a simple handwriting worksheet. 

 

Wow, that's really a lot to deal with (and I also have 4 kids).  

 

Most of our day is self-directed learning, so here's just some stuff off the top of my mind.  Does the 7 yro have enough to get into to occupy his time?  For example, if he's interested in building/taking apart things, is there enough building sets and things for him to get into?  We have to provide an absurd amount of art supplies for our 8 yro or she will also bother the other kids.  She spends hours sketching, making Manga comics, looking at Manga comics, watching YouTube videos about art, etc.  When we first started providing this outlet for her, I basically had to go on a shopping spree at Hobby Lobby.  We even set up a work area for her.  Also, we take her to the library once a week to refresh her collection of art books.   :glare:   OK, so I don't know what your son is interested in...or what his personality is like...but after we provided the supplies, books, etc, my daughter started spending most of her time on that and not irritating her older brother (her other favorite pastime).

 

Is he getting enough physical work-out in his day?  Can somebody take him outside to run around (or can he run around in a fenced-in back yard)?  My son and my 8 yro both need a lot of physical stimulation or they will drive everyone insane.  

 

Another thought...can you assign him some chores/tasks?  Can he follow you around the house and help you care for your daughter?  Could you glue him to your side and make him your assistant?   :cool:    

 

Also, our family has survived some really difficult times and the thing that really helped was a routine.  And, the routine could be just 2-3 things a week...like on Saturday mornings, we always go to the bakery...after dinner, we always take a walk outside...  I know it sounds dumb, but it had a noticeable effect on the younger kids.  Things felt more stabile.

 

About being independent and homeschooling...yeah, not at age 7.  I'm planning for my 6th grader to be mostly independent next year, but she's going to still need help (especially with stuff like writing and keeping to a schedule).  :(

[lexi]

My dd 7 (almost 8) can be fairly independent in a lot of things.

She does MM on her own. I get her started on each new section then she does the rest by herself.

For Apologia Zoology I have her read 1 section and then write 1 summary sentence and draw a picture.

She can read chapters in SOTW and read extra books. Then she narrates to me.

 

I'm not in your situation so I usually do these things with her but on days when I can't, she knows our routine well enough to work on her own for certain things.

 

She also does some things online. It's helpful that she's slowly starting to do some things on her own.

 

Of course each child is different, but I have worked hard to encourage her to be independent in some things.

[briansmama]

I agree it depends on the child and also how much support/help you can get, given your situation and what sounds like a full-time or at least part-time job. My oldest is almost 10 and still needs me to hand-hold him.

 

Two things I would do in your situation:

Try to create a very strong daily rhythm. Can your medical-needs child have downtime everyday for an hour or two? Can you count on a solid chunk of time to work with your ds? First grade for us only takes an hour and a half, but this was always built around exercise, so I make sure ds is ready to work and focus before asking him to do so.

 

Another suggestion is to look into outside classes and see if you can get someone to bring him/pick him up. Athletic classes are always great for young kids, but other things like outsourcing science or art may be very helpful too.

[HS Mom in NC]

I have a friend who homeschooled her 11 children- half have significant special needs as they were adopted through foster care and had special needs in addition to the issues that caused the state to remove them from their biological parents.  (Down's Syndrome, heart conditions requiring surgery, spinabifida requiring surgery and wheel chairs, serious developmental challenges, etc.) They have doctors and therapists to see during the week. All of the kids range in age from 10 to 30. The bio children who don't have special needs go off to college and careers while the special needs kids stay home as dependent adults. They have homeschooled all the way through with all of their kids while living on a farm with lots of animals.

 

I think assuming a parent with a special needs child is categorically unable to homeschool is probably assuming too much.  I think the best route is to contact NATTHAN (I vaguely remember this being the acronym for the nationwide support group for homeschoolers with special needs kids.) If not, google terms to find out the name of the group of support to homeschooling kids with special needs along with other children without special needs and see how they do it. After getting an idea of how large families with special needs kids do it, then it it's time to decide if you can or can't.

 

Once a child can read and write a parent can send him or her off to do something have the child bring it back to see it's done. They can read something independently and write a brief summary once they're solid readers. Curriculum with workbooks or study guides usually has examples and explanations in it in addition to a parent explaining things. Online school may or not be independent learning for a child. It may just make the parent independent.  That's perfectly fine if that's what you want, but if you want a child to be independent, that's different than making the parent independent.

 

When a child is independent (s)he can listen to an set of instructions, read for him/herself, write on his/her own, return the assignment for correction.  Using the 36 week file folder system with the workbooks/assignments in each folder with a week's worth of assignments for each subject makes that very efficient. Typically assignments with answer keys or rubrics are most compatible with this type of homeschooling.  There have been threads on this system.  Chores and independent reading, play and activities can be assigned too as needed with a system if you find that kind of thing works for you.

 

My special needs kid was only special needs temporarily ( a couple of years) and my older two were 7 and 9, so they had some homeschooling experience, so I'm not sure my situation would apply to yours.

 

 

[AMDG]

Thank you all for taking the time to give you input and support on this topic. 

 

My DS7 is doing very well with the structure and routine of going to school right now. For me, it relieves an enormous amount of pressure to be able to focus my attention on being my kids' mom and not their teacher on top of it. Before my daughter's medical needs surfaced, we ran a pretty tight ship at home. With four children in six years, I had to keep pretty strict to homeschool the way I wanted to. 

 

I don't want my response to turn into a litany of why I can't homeschool, but my daughter has therapy 3 times a week, home care nursing visits, and several doctor appointments a week. She has a feeding tube, is in a feeding clinic, and has 10 different specialty doctors. I can roll up my sleeves and handle a lot, but this is incredible for me to manage. We put our son in school with the hope that once my daughter phases out of early intervention (in about 3 years), that we can bring him back home while DD gets much of her therapy at the public school. Even once she is in school, there will still be a lot of appointments and management, which is why I am hoping that my children will be able to get some work done independently, especially since it is feasible that there will likely be at least a day a week I'll be out for appointments, or days at a time for surgeries/hospital admissions. 

 

We homeschool for academic/religious reasons, but I think we are a bit more moderate in that I don't think we'd move heaven and earth trying to make homeschooling work against the odds. I WANT to do it, but I can't kill myself trying to live that ideal, either. 

[kiwik]

I'm not in your exact situation, so take this with a grain of salt... :)

 

My schedule is pretty crazy at the moment. I work a few different jobs so some days I may work 12 hours, some days a few hours, some days nothing. And I usually don't know until the day before (via phone call). Since I am single, DS comes with me and we bring school. This is our third year doing actual sit-down school work and DS is just now at the point where he can do all but two subjects on his own (he doesn't like it, but he can when it's required). However, I've spent the last two years working up to this point. As well as teaching him what toys/crafts are appropriate when, how to play by himself, how to help around the house, etc.

 

Is there any way you can take your DS out of school now (when he's young and the academics don't matter quite so much) to work on getting him to the point where you need him to be (the behavior, etc)? (I'm not saying behavior like your DS has a problem!) I'm just thinking that it might not be as simple as getting to him to an "independent age" in school and then boom, having him be indepdent at home (in schoolwork, play, etc). If it were me, I would take him out now. First, make appropriate play a number one priority. If this is an issue then say "You get to play with legos for the next half hour/until x time" then "Draw/color for the next half hour" etc. What saved me last year (and even this year when we are in the car a lot) were academically-appropriate phone/tablet apps so that even if our actual bookwork isn't getting done, he is at least reviewing math facts, or learning relevant vocab, and so on. And those are pretty much independent.

 

Just my two cents :)

Just out of curiousity - what job do you have that you can take your child with you?

[Lecka]

I have 3 kids. Two are in pre-school, one in public school 3rd grade.

 

One of my little kids has home therapy, that I am heavily involved with, for 12 hours a week. I need to be active in it. My daughter can be very independent doing art projects and playing. In the early afternoon, though, I spend time with her.

 

My 3rd grader NEEDS time and attention from me. The easiest way for me to make this happen, is to pay attention to my two little kids while he is at school. Then I feel free to pay a lot of attention to him after school and in the early evening.

 

I am also heavily involved in afterschooling him in reading.

 

This works well for me.

 

My son in therapy does not need me with him all the time, but I need to be in at least half the time, sometimes more, so I can be consistent and provide him little chances to practice in the rest of the day. That is the nature of his therapy and it is the overall priority in my home right now, above anything for my other kids, except their basic needs being met (which for my older son means a lot of time with me, and for my daughter, she is independent but she does like to help me cook and hear about her pretend things she is up to).

 

For my son in therapy, I don't expect him to get easier. I have a strong feeling that I cannot afford to burn myself out with him. I need to make decisions that are consistent with me and my other kids being in it for the long haul. This leads me to prioritize relationships and to prioritize a reduced stress level over things that I really *could* do but that are not worth it with what our situation is.

 

For my oldest son, though, he really likes how he gets a lot of my time after school. It is better than during the summer, when he needs structure and he is just not my primary concern in the mornings.

 

My daughter is more than 3 years younger, but she is mature and independent by nature. My older son is a great kid but he needs more structure and guidance. He is a kid who gets re-directed at school. Not like he is bad in any way, just like he is a kid who needs more re-direction than most kids his age.

[sbgrace]

I have one who, in 4th grade, could probably be fairly independent with material that is designed for independent work. I have another, same age, who definitely couldn't. I don't know when he'll be ready! I really think this is something that may vary for each child and will be a wait and see to some extent. You could, when you get closer to age 3 for her, start looking into materials that are designed for independent work.

[happypamama]

In that situation, I might consider cyber-schooling. That way, he could still be at home, but it would be no planning on your part.

[AMDG]

In that situation, I might consider cyber-schooling. That way, he could still be at home, but it would be no planning on your part.

 

 

Right. This is more along the lines I am looking for given our situation. 

The poster a few posts above whose son has in-home therapy, there is just SO MUCH on me that I have to be careful how much I give out. With DS7 in school, I CAN give him a lot of attention right now AFTER school, having completed all the therapy, appointments, and phone calls while he's gone. In the course of a few years I DO BELIEVE that life will be more manageable. I pray for that hope. 

 

My ONLY issue with a cyber school is that starting around the 4th-5th grade, I really want to incorporate deeper humanities instruction, beginning philosophy, Latin, etc., which might be tough to do on top of a cyber school. We are Catholic, and there is beautiful curriculum beginning about that grade as well. I am hoping that by that time we can iron out all the kinks. 

[ElizaG]

My ONLY issue with a cyber school is that starting around the 4th-5th grade, I really want to incorporate deeper humanities instruction, beginning philosophy, Latin, etc., which might be tough to do on top of a cyber school. We are Catholic, and there is beautiful curriculum beginning about that grade as well. I am hoping that by that time we can iron out all the kinks. 

 

I think your concerns are valid.  The secular cyber schools just aren't designed for Catholic education, especially for subjects like English and history.  Even if they don't teach anything objectionable, they're going to be missing a lot of things that are essential for our family.   (We did some K12 courses as independent users, and they required so much supplementing that it pretty much canceled out the convenience of the format.)

 

Have you looked at Fisher More Academy?  They have an online program that starts in 5th grade.  My guess is that there will still be options like this available a few years from now.   :001_smile:

[mom2scouts]

I also think it depends on the child.  I have an 11 year old boy who needs me to stay next to him all day and keep him on task.

[Insertcreativenamehere]

We are in a very similar situation with a DS (18 mo) who is medically complex and has spent about 170 days in the hospital so far. He is the youngest of our four, and our oldest is in 3rd grade at our local school and thrives there. Our first grade DS has had a very hard time with all of the chaos associated with our youngest son's medical issues and has developed depression/anxiety as a result. I just pulled him out of our local school to school at home through K12/our state virtual academy. My mother-in-law is doing 1/2 the schooling and I am doing 1/2, even though life is crazy, because this particular son desperately NEEDS quality time with the adults he loves at this point in his life. Although he is above grade level in both math and reading, he is far from independent. Even with the online curriculum, he needs attention about 90% of the time. I do think my 3rd grader could be fairly independent with this particular curriculum, perhaps needing assistance here and there but not needing me to stand over him all day long. 

[AMDG]

I think your concerns are valid.  The secular cyber schools just aren't designed for Catholic education, especially for subjects like English and history.  Even if they don't teach anything objectionable, they're going to be missing a lot of things that are essential for our family.   (We did some K12 courses as independent users, and they required so much supplementing that it pretty much canceled out the convenience of the format.)

 

Have you looked at Fisher More Academy?  They have an online program that starts in 5th grade.  My guess is that there will still be options like this available a few years from now.   :001_smile:

 

I have never heard of this program. Thank you! And thank you for the support.