What do you do when someone close to you is adulterous

[Scarlett]

It is difficult when you think you know someone well and it turns out maybe they are different from that. Divorce can rock a family. I know when both of my siblings divorced, I felt very unsettled for awhile. Even though I consider my marriage to be pretty strong, there is nothing like the reality of a close-up divorce to make you question things. After all, if people whom you thought you knew could be so different, maybe that's true for your life too. On one level I knew dh and I were solid, but at a deeper level, who really knows? Good people are causing pain to people they used to love right in front of your eyes. It's deeply unsettling.

 

Not to mention, it challenged some of my preconceived notions about why people cheat and/or leave. In the end I had to conclude that it's really, really complicated. Your brother sounds like an otherwise good person. I'm sorry for everyone involved.

Relationships are complicated. But the reasons people cheat are not. Lack of boundaries.

[Catwoman]

Cat you said there is no excuse for adultery. But you keep saying maybe he has a good reason......that is the whole point....there IS no reason good enough.

And I don't see that Quill is saying her db is a lost cause....but this is no small thing and should not be treated like he failed to pick up his socks or something.

I'm not saying he had a good reason, but I am saying that he is still her brother and that she should take the time to try to understand the situation from his perspective before she starts feeling betrayed and hurt. I'm also saying that it's not her place, or anyone else's to think they should be allowed to dictate how he should live his life.

 

Honestly, if it had been my brother in that situation, the first thing I would have done when I heard what happened would have been to call him and ask if he was OK. I wouldn't have been judging him or worrying about whether or not he'd broken his Christian vows. I would have wanted to be sure he was all right.

 

There are a few people here who are judging Quill's brother's entire personality and character on the fact that he cheated on his wife, and I think that is not only unfair, but is also incredibly judgmental and narrowminded.

[LucyStoner]

Unless I am married to someone, that person's marriage is none of my business.  

 

My brother and his wife are having, well let's just say "a hard time".  They are both making mistakes which I won't enumerate here and she has certainly cheated.  They are however both the parents of 1/2 of my kids' cousins.  Even if they divorce, my SIL is still my family. I am going to be there for both of them regardless of their personal wrong doings.  I am not going to trash either party.  They are both, just like me, flawed  humans who deserve love, compassion and understanding.  Their marriage troubles are not happening to me.  This is happening near me.  I can be supportive and lend a hand (especially with the kids) but I can't borrow trouble or feel sorry for myself.  They are the ones who need help and support.  

 

ETA:  and before anyone say there is never any reason to cheat about my SIL, let me just say this: I love my brother because he is my brother and he reminds me of my mom and we grew up together.  But I know my brother and you don't.  Trust me that the things I can say about him (but will not) would make any healthy person feel at least some degree of empathy for my SIL, cheater or not.  Very rarely, if ever, is cheating the only bad thing happening in a marriage or a bad marriage all on one person.  

[Joanne]

What if he was beating his wife?  Would this still be the advice?  

How about if he were just telling her how worthless or stupid she was?

 

Red herring. It's not the same thing. Abuse is abuse.

 

Cheating is not abuse.

[albeto.]

Wow, it did take a turn.

 

Just wanted to add a few things. Telling your parents isn't an effort to punish your brother or manipulate them. It is an attempt to stop keeping secrets. I am shocked how man people thinki it is wrong to tell your parents. Just the facts: brother left his wife, has a girlfriend and has filed for divorce.

 

Expressing your disappointment in his adultery is hardly 'throwing him under the bus'. This is not a either or situation. You can be disappointed and still love him.

 

I'm not sure I understand. The family has a culture of not talking about uncomfortable topics. These "secrets" are expected, respected even. In what way is it appropriate for to tell another person's secret? 

 

I'm assuming you mean to bring the subject up rather than wait for it to come around naturally.

 

Making the brother feel bad for his actions, and possibly putting him in the uncomfortable position of defending himself to upset family members, is not a neutral act. It's a direct response to his cheating, and it results in a negative consequence. That's the very definition of punishment. What else could it be?

[Joanne]

Quill--You are a Christian, and your brother claimed (still claims?) those beliefs. Therefore you know that within the bounds of your shared faith, yes, you must speak with love about his bad choices. Others posting on this thread do not claim to adhere to that belief system, so they will not necessarily understand that loving interdependence. It is not likely to affect his behavior, and you cannot become enmeshed in an ongoing battle to manipulate him to change. Your posts do not indicate any desire to do that though--your posts are well-grounded in common sense, and I support you.

 

For those who claim he has not harmed anyone but Quill or changed, or that I (or others) sit in judgment on Quill's brother:

 

If he did this and repented, then it would not be my place to hold any judgment. I know more than one person who has done this and genuinely repented, and I have never, ever held this against these people. Their repentance was genuine, and each of these people worked hard over literally years to make amends.

 

Db, however, not only did this but has indicated no repentance at all. I don't care if his wife was a witch or not. You don't sleep with someone else unless you are legally divorced. Period.

 

 

Harriet, I often agree with you. This time, I don't.

 

I think that many Christians hide behind the scripture that backs your post. THey then act out in gossip, power, and control while calling it "love".  But, really, ANYONE knows that cheating is against Christian wedding vows. Speaking the truth is just superfluous.

 

I also don't agree that you don't "sleep with someone else unless you are legally divorced" but that is a related, but different topic. I *didn't* sleep with anyone until I was on paper divorced, but I had not been *married* by any true definition for years.

 

This time, it's even more complicated.

[Joanne]

My point is nothing more than to question at what point one should be involved in someone's marriage and what point they shouldn't. 

 

As it is, a cheater is destroying another person, their marriage and their family.  

Apparently that's OK, but actual physical abuse is not.  

 

 

I'm not seeing the line, I guess.  

 

No one, not ONE person in this thread - even those who are arguing for differing levels of "involvement" support cheating.

 

The juxtaposition of abuse and cheating is a false comparison.

 

I say this as a former wife who was both abused AND cheated on.

[Incognito]

Red herring. It's not the same thing. Abuse is abuse.

 

Cheating is not abuse.

 

I don't see how cheating isn't abuse.  It is introducing possibly dangerous diseases.  AND I have not once seen someone cheat and then go on and be emotionally supportive to the cheated on spouse.  There is emotional abuse that is part and parcel of cheating.

[Harriet Vane]

Harriet, I often agree with you. This time, I don't.

 

I think that many Christians hide behind the scripture that backs your post. THey then act out in gossip, power, and control while calling it "love".  But, really, ANYONE knows that cheating is against Christian wedding vows. Speaking the truth is just superfluous.

 

I also don't agree that you don't "sleep with someone else unless you are legally divorced" but that is a related, but different topic. I *didn't* sleep with anyone until I was on paper divorced, but I had not been *married* by any true definition for years.

 

This time, it's even more complicated.

 

It is true that gossip, power, and control can be an issue in any group, Christian or not. That is why I specifically warned Quill against trying to manipulate a change in behavior over the long term. (I don't get the sense from her posts that that is what she is angling for anyway.) There can be conversations that are loving and open and honest without being manipulative, gossipy, or controlling. Just because some people fall into those negative traps does not mean that all people will do so. There should be honest, open conversation in a relationship that is close, as Quill seems to feel her relationship with her brother is.

 

I was defending Quill's discomfort with keeping a secret when the affair is in the open and divorce papers are served. I also think Quill is well within what is normal and reasonable, as well, to question her brother's integrity, to feel disappointed and unhappy with him, and to want the truth. The dynamics of an affair do lead to this natural result.

 

I do understand that marriages die, sometimes long before the paperwork happens. Those situations have my fullest compassion. However, the marriage vow is not a small thing. It is unique in its magnitude and its scope. As such, it is my opinion that respecting that vow with extra-special care, of making sure that all within the marriage is done (including the paperwork), before taking that step of union with another person, is appropriate for the magnitude of the original vow.

[theYoungerMrsWarde]

I don't see how cheating isn't abuse.  It is introducing possibly dangerous diseases.  AND I have not once seen someone cheat and then go on and be emotionally supportive to the cheated on spouse.  There is emotional abuse that is part and parcel of cheating.

 

I'd forgotten about my cousin's first husband until you mentioned this. She found out he was cheating when she tested positive for an STD. :glare:  Turns out he got it from her best friend. Isn't giving someone an STD and not telling them considered a form of assault?

[Joanne]

I don't see how cheating isn't abuse.  It is introducing possibly dangerous diseases.  AND I have not once seen someone cheat and then go on and be emotionally supportive to the cheated on spouse.  There is emotional abuse that is part and parcel of cheating.

 

I've seen marriages survive and thrive after an affair.

Having been ABUSED, I can't put cheating in that category. If abuse is present, it's abuse and stands alone.

[Catwoman]

I'm glad you guys mentioned the STD thing. I hope Quill's SIL thinks to get tested. Hopefully, Quill's brother only cheated with one healthy woman, but you just never know, and her SIL shouldn't take any chances with her health.

[Trish]

Okay. I think this is where I need to thank those who've been helpful and stop feeding those who haven't been. Pretty surprised it's Cat, though. I like Cat.

She is correctly pointing out that you can't insist your brother adhere to your moral standard, or his former one. And spreading the news of his adultery is not your job unless you volunteer for the position. And that attempting to punish your brother for his marital transgression will likely damage your relationship with him. You can feel badly about the whole situation without imposing anything on anyone, particularly your parents.

[Scarlett]

Red herring. It's not the same thing. Abuse is abuse.

 

Cheating is not abuse.

I strongly disagree. I also was abused physically, mentally emotionally....the adultery was by far the worst.

[Scarlett]

She is correctly pointing out that you can't insist your brother adhere to your moral standard, or his former one. And spreading the news of his adultery is not your job unless you volunteer for the position. And that attempting to punish your brother for his marital transgression will likely damage your relationship with him. You can feel badly about the whole situation without imposing anything on anyone, particularly your parents.

First, it is highly doubtful that her brother has changed his moral belief that adultery is wrong. Much more likely that he is behaving much like a drug addict and doing what feels good at the moment. He Is violating his own moral belief. Most likely. Quill can probably discern that when she calls him.

 

Second, whether or not his belief system has changed he has moved out and filed for divorce! It is a matter of public record now so I am unclear why it is such a big deal to inform her parents. Nowhere did she talk about "spreading it around".

[Scarlett]

She is correctly pointing out that you can't insist your brother adhere to your moral standard, or his former one. And spreading the news of his adultery is not your job unless you volunteer for the position. And that attempting to punish your brother for his marital transgression will likely damage your relationship with him. You can feel badly about the whole situation without imposing anything on anyone, particularly your parents.

Ad quill also did not say she was going to insist he follow her moral code. She is attempting to break a cycle of secrecy that she doesn't like.....standing up and saying to her brother " hey I am disappointed that you have done something so hurtful to your wife" is not an attempt on her part to control him. It is Quill stating her Truth.

[Joanne]

I strongly disagree. I also was abused physically, mentally emotionally....the adultery was by far the worst.

 

I didn't compare the effects of abuse vs. adultery. I just asserted they are not appropriate or synonymous. I was responding to a post that questioned "non involvement" of adultery to non involvement of abuse.

 

They can't be compared with any validity.

[Scarlett]

I didn't compare the effects of abuse vs. adultery. I just asserted they are not appropriate or synonymous. I was responding to a post that questioned "non involvement" of adultery to non involvement of abuse.

 

They can't be compared with any validity.

It is the height of mental and emotional abuse for most people.

[Joanne]

It is the height of mental and emotional abuse for most people.

 

 

Abuse? No.

 

If abuse exists and is played out in the context of the marriage/affair, then it's abuse.

 

It might be disrespect. It might be a violation. But adultery is not abuse.

 

Lots of things are not acceptable but are not abuse. I'm not minimizing the effects of adultery - I am just saying that comparing it to abuse is not accurate.

[albeto.]

 saying to her brother " hey I am disappointed that you have done something so hurtful to your wife" is not an attempt on her part to control him. It is Quill stating her Truth.

 

The two are not mutually exclusive. Quill stating her "truth" will very likely be hurtful to her brother. It will not change the divorce. It will betray the culture of privacy the rest of the family supports. Quill would be doing this for herself, to appease her own sense of pain, not for her brother. 

[albeto.]

 Much more likely that he is behaving much like a drug addict and doing what feels good at the moment. He Is violating his own moral belief. Most likely. 

 

The same can be said for your argument. You're encouraging someone to do something that will very likely strain an otherwise lifelong, close relationship.  You're doing something that makes you feel good in the moment without thinking through the consequences. I imagine bringing undue pain and suffering on people goes against your own moral belief (unless you don't believe this is undue pain, in which case, it confirms the punishment aspect). If I take it upon myself to correct you, to call you out in public (as these conversations "are a matter of public record"), does that mean all I'm doing is speaking my "truth," stopping the cycle of manipulation? Or is the standard different when it's aimed against you personally?

[Trish]

First, it is highly doubtful that her brother has changed his moral belief that adultery is wrong. Much more likely that he is behaving much like a drug addict and doing what feels good at the moment. He Is violating his own moral belief. Most likely. Quill can probably discern that when she calls him.

 

Second, whether or not his belief system has changed he has moved out and filed for divorce! It is a matter of public record now so I am unclear why it is such a big deal to inform her parents. Nowhere did she talk about "spreading it around".

Speaking to her original questions, it is certainly her prerogative to make her feelings known to her brother. (Do we really think he doesn't know where she stands on adultery?) It is also her prerogative to express her disgust over her brother's actions to other people she knows or is close to. (Are THEY unaware of her position on adultery?)

 

Or perhaps the idea in both of the above cases is to express her distancing herself from her brother because she cannot tolerate such a moral failing. That's a legitimate position to take, but something to think long and hard about before you take it.

 

Whatever is told to the parents I think should come from the parties directly involved in the situation, i.e. the brother and/or the SIL. If the parents are so in the dark that they don't even know the SIL has moved, I think it's fair to respond to any questions regarding that. "SIL has a new address." If they discover that their son does not also have that same new address, then the response would be "maybe you should ask him about what's going on." I would not add information about oh he had an affair, or gee he's got a new girlfriend. If Quill knows for sure he has filed for divorce she can say, "he told me he's filing for divorce, you'd better ask him about any details."

 

You know, it's easy to jump on adulterers because they are so "obviously" in the wrong. (Although I think it's very dangerous and often unfair to assume you know what's going on inside someone else's marriage. Think "Jane Eyre," for Charlotte Bronte's sake!)

 

What if Quill were doing something her brother found morally repugnant? Would she want him informing people because "they have a right to know what they're dealing with?" I can think of situations that people find themselves in that perhaps they wouldn't prefer, but that others may be quick to make judgments about.

 

Things like prescription drug addictions. Overspending and creating a financial mess. Maybe they contracted HIV. Perhaps they had an abortion and regret it. Perhaps they had an abortion and didn't regret it. Either way, who "deserves to know what they're dealing with?" In my opinion, nobody.

 

I understand the temptation to look down our noses at adulterers, because after all, people get hurt, so we're really only "defending them." But are we really? Or is it just a safe way to pass judgment?

 

Regarding the Christmas card to the potential "new family," (including the adultery partner), only send it if you MEAN IT. Which means don't send it if you're still harboring judgments in your heart.

 

Sending a Christmas card doesn't mean you're condoning anything except the power of God's Grace.

[FaithManor]

The std thing is very important. My ex-bil had an ongoing secret relationship with a previous girlfriend who had, how can I say this politely, a s*ual history of great magnitude. My sister ended up being tested every two months the first year, and every six months for the year after that. She was then annually tested for HIV for another three years and then given a clean bill of health. It is very important that both of them, plus the female he cheated with to be tested. This is not about punishment, or vindictiveness, or resentment, it's about protecting life.

 

In my sister's case, the court forced him to be tested and disclose the information. I don't know if that is common with the family court system but to say that the judge in this case was less than impressed with ex-bil would be an understatement.

 

I don't have a dog in the fight about whether or not Quill should maintain a relationship with her brother or not, or how to handle her soon to be ex sil, or to tell her parents, or whatever. But, I do want to put weight to the matter that she should be very encouraging and supportive of sil getting tested ASAP.

[Candid]

1. Be committed to innocent parties, especially children.
2. Be committed to the truth.
3. Be committed to reconciliation.
4. Be committed to grace.

I suggest these four things in this order.

 

On #1, I read through the thread but it did not stick in my limited brain whether there are children. Be committed to them and enabling them to keep as many positive relationships as possible. In particular I mean relationships with you and other members of your family. Your brother has legal rights in this area and I would not concern myself with his relationship with the children except to push/advise him to have one with them. BUT if at all possible stay friendly with your SIL and support her.

 

Further if it is clear your brother's lack of full disclosure to your other family members, jeopardizes the children's relationship with them AND you can reasonably expect that truth might aid in that then you are obligated to let them in on the truth. So if your parents are ready to cut her and the kids off because of any lies or misstatements from brother, intervene. 

 

If my son cheated on his wife, you can be sure that I will jettison him if forced by him to choose by him between a relationship with his kids and his ex and him unless there are extreme facts against that ex. Children come first over adults. Obviously this get more difficult if he eventually has more children. 

 

Further coupling this one with #2, you need to gently ask him about what your sil has told you. If anything, ask her to tell him she's read you in, first. This eliminates any possibility she is fibbing to you. Give him standard #1 and ask him to tell your family members the truth as part of #2. 

 

Push him to reconciliation if he is indeed the problem. But also push your sil to this if your brother tries and she rebuffs him. Be committed to extending grace if they do reconcile, but given time you can also extend grace to him if he does not resist #1 and #2. 

 

As for the family secrecy, I would not trouble myself over that. Nor would I openly cut him off unless #1 is in play. You can cordially meet him at holidays if that DOES NOT mean you can't meet with sil and the children. 

[Joanne]

 

Push him to reconciliation if he is indeed the problem. But also push your sil to this if your brother tries and she rebuffs him. Be committed to extending grace if they do reconcile, but given time you can also extend grace to him if he does not resist #1 and #2. 

 

As for the family secrecy, I would not trouble myself over that. Nor would I openly cut him off unless #1 is in play. You can cordially meet him at holidays if that DOES NOT mean you can't meet with sil and the children. 

 

 

 

I'm hoping the bold is a mistake.

 

It is terribly hurtful, harmful, and boundary inappropriate to "push" a person towards marital reconciliation - especially in the case of adultery AND if she has already said "no".

 

OMG. I am livid at the suggestion.

[albeto.]

you need to gently ask him about what your sil has told you. 

 

I don't understand this. Can you elaborate? Why would the OP be entitled to this information?

[Scarlett]

I am weary now but just want to say that I realize there are very different POV on this board about adultery, family boundaries etc. I don't support excessive blabbing, fb outings or ranting on the brother. I don't support "cutting him out of ones life" .

 

What I would do ( which is what the thread title asks) is bring it out in the open with the brother. And letting him know I believe he has made a grave mistake and if possible to change the course of what he is doing. I would express my love for him and I would further point out that accepting his new girlfriend would be very very difficult for me ( I realize that this is not a huge problem ATM since he lives 2500 miles away. ). Then if he didn't change his course I would indeed quietly distance myself from him.

 

If he did change his course and stop the adulterous behavior I would graciously support him even if the marriage does not survive.

 

As for the family culture of secrets.....I would not continue to be part of that. If my extended family is ' happy ' with that culture then they will learn that I am not going to follow along to get along.

 

So that is what "I" would do. I have lived much of this with family and friends and myself and I know how I feel about it.

 

Quill has expressed her feelings on much if this many times in the past. I encourage her to follow her instincts on breaking out of that mold. It can be done with kindness.

[Χά�ων]

Wow. Just wow.

[Harriet Vane]

I am weary now but just want to say that I realize there are very different POV on this board about adultery, family boundaries etc. I don't support excessive blabbing, fb outings or ranting on the brother. I don't support "cutting him out of ones life" .

 

What I would do ( which is what the thread title asks) is bring it out in the open with the brother. And letting him know I believe he has made a grave mistake and if possible to change the course of what he is doing. I would express my love for him and I would further point out that accepting his new girlfriend would be very very difficult for me ( I realize that this is not a huge problem ATM since he lives 2500 miles away. ). Then if he didn't change his course I would indeed quietly distance myself from him.

 

If he did change his course and stop the adulterous behavior I would graciously support him even if the marriage does not survive.

 

As for the family culture of secrets.....I would not continue to be part of that. If my extended family is ' happy ' with that culture then they will learn that I am not going to follow along to get along.

 

So that is what "I" would do. I have lived much of this with family and friends and myself and I know how I feel about it.

 

Quill has expressed her feelings on much if this many times in the past. I encourage her to follow her instincts on breaking out of that mold. It can be done with kindness.

 

 

:iagree:  I agree, emphatically.

[Scarlett]

The two are not mutually exclusive. Quill stating her "truth" will very likely be hurtful to her brother. It will not change the divorce. It will betray the culture of privacy the rest of the family supports. Quill would be doing this for herself, to appease her own sense of pain, not for her brother.

Huh? Smh.

[Scarlett]

Abuse? No.

 

If abuse exists and is played out in the context of the marriage/affair, then it's abuse.

 

It might be disrespect. It might be a violation. But adultery is not abuse.

 

Lots of things are not acceptable but are not abuse. I'm not minimizing the effects of adultery - I am just saying that comparing it to abuse is not accurate.

We will just have to disagree on this point. I would be interested in your definition of abuse.

[Χά�ων]

Really?? Is this a joke? You all can't be for real here, there is just no way.

[Murphy101]

probably TMI

[Catwoman]

FWIW, I have been operating under the assumption that Quill's brother and his wife have no children.

 

She hasn't mentioned any.

[unsinkable]

Really?? Is this a joke? You all can't be for real here, there is just no way.

 

This act of yours gets so old.

 

We get it. You are so beyond most of us on the board.

 

/waits for luhnahtic or goddess or momofsomeone to change her name again.

[Erin]

Red herring. It's not the same thing. Abuse is abuse.

 

Cheating is not abuse.

 

I would venture to guess if you've been betrayed you wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the comparison. 

But, as stated, i was just curious where it was OK to get involved in someone's marriage and where it wasn't. 

 

Damaging mind or body is bad, get involved.

Damaging hearts, marriage or family structure is fine, stay out.  

[Scarlett]

I would venture to guess if you've been betrayed you wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the comparison.

But, as stated, i was just curious where it was OK to get involved in someone's marriage and where it wasn't.

 

Damaging mind or body is bad, get involved.

Damaging hearts, marriage or family structure is fine, stay out.

I think she WAS betrayed in her first marriage making it even more surprising that she doesn't consider adultery abuse.

[Catwoman]

Really?? Is this a joke? You all can't be for real here, there is just no way.

I'm sure she's not joking, as she is always very consistent in her opinions on this topic.

 

She and I may not agree in this thread, but I highly respect her opinion and think she has expressed herself very well.

[Candid]

I'm hoping the bold is a mistake.

 

It is terribly hurtful, harmful, and boundary inappropriate to "push" a person towards marital reconciliation - especially in the case of adultery AND if she has already said "no".

 

OMG. I am livid at the suggestion.

 

I hear you, but I'm afraid I don't agree. My points do come in order, but at some point I am committed to peacemaking and that means I am committed to reconciliation. 

 

Also please notice that I don't expect sil to lead with this. Brother must desire it first IF he is the transgressor of their marital covenant. If he doesn't desire it, I would not talk with her at all about reconciliation that would be hurtful. 

[albeto.]

Huh? Smh.

 

Why do you shake your head here? Telling a third party about the affairs of a grown man and his wife is not for the sake of the grown man. It's not for the sake of the third party. It's for the sake of the one telling. It releases a burden of conscience perhaps, but it's not for anyone else's benefit. In what way could it be for anyone else's benefit? 

[Candid]

I don't understand this. Can you elaborate? Why would the OP be entitled to this information?

 

Under my second commitment to truth, this needs to be explored. Suppose sil has lied? He gets the chance to defend his character. Right now his character has been lowered in his sister's eyes by what sil has told her. 

 

He, obviously, can take your point of view, but I believe everyone deserves to defend their character and his is currently lowered in quill's eyes. 

 

I would rather have someone come to me with a negative rumor and let me deny it than for them to just have heard it and be back there somewhere in their head with me being totally unaware of that information being out there. 

[Scarlett]

Why do you shake your head here? Telling a third party about the affairs of a grown man and his wife is not for the sake of the grown man. It's not for the sake of the third party. It's for the sake of the one telling. It releases a burden of conscience perhaps, but it's not for anyone else's benefit. In what way could it be for anyone else's benefit?

I don't think Quill has a guilty conscience nor do I believe she should.

 

I would tell my parents about my brothers moving out / divorce/ adultery because my parents would feel like fools if they later found out it was kept from them.

 

I would not handle every adulterous situation the same.....but that is how I would handle this situation.

[albeto.]

Under my second commitment to truth, this needs to be explored. Suppose sil has lied? He gets the chance to defend his character. Right now his character has been lowered in his sister's eyes by what sil has told her. 

 

He, obviously, can take your point of view, but I believe everyone deserves to defend their character and his is currently lowered in quill's eyes. 

 

I would rather have someone come to me with a negative rumor and let me deny it than for them to just have heard it and be back there somewhere in their head with me being totally unaware of that information being out there. 

 

Thanks for explaining. To me this sounds like a person has the right to interrogate (for lack of better word) another person's affairs (general, not sexual) in order to decide whether or not to maintain an opinion of lesser character value. But... why is a person entitled to another person's private information for the sake of their own curiosity? If one is operating on Christian values, then the onus is to judge a person's character righteously (John 7:24). I can understand the argument that it is righteous to be entitled to another person's private affairs if one is going to continue in the same faith community, but does the bible talk about being entitled to investigate and judge non-community members? 

[Murphy101]

I would not tell mom and dad but I wouldn't keep it from them either. If they asked about brother, I'd tell them they really should talk to him and/or his wife bc they should hear about his life from him.

 

If brother wanted to be pissed at me for telling dad that his son has some major stuff going in and to call his son to hear it from him?

 

Too freaking bad. Not my job to be his secret keeper or lie perpetuator.

[albeto.]

I don't think Quill has a guilty conscience nor do I believe she should.

 

I would tell my parents about my brothers moving out / divorce/ adultery because my parents would feel like fools if they later found out it was kept from them.

 

I would not handle every adulterous situation the same.....but that is how I would handle this situation.

The guilty conscience would be from knowing information that is secret to others. You suggested she would be relieved to not be keeping such an ugly secret. The relief is what I'm referring to when suggesting that being the one to tell a third party would be for her sake. It's a selfish reason, not altruistic.

 

Your parents may feel like fools, but if Quill's family is indeed happy with not getting involved in personal drama, they may not. Why not follow the preferred pattern, and let the brother reveal his news according to his wishes (unless the subject comes up naturally, as has been suggested)?

[Scarlett]

The guilty conscience would be from knowing information that is secret to others. You suggested she would be relieved to not be keeping such an ugly secret. The relief is what I'm referring to when suggesting that being the one to tell a third party would be for her sake. It's a selfish reason, not altruistic.

 

Your parents may feel like fools, but if Quill's family is indeed happy with not getting involved in personal drama, they may not. Why not follow the preferred pattern, and let the brother reveal his news according to his wishes (unless the subject comes up naturally, as has been suggested)?

Quill asked what I would do and I told her.

 

But again not keeping secrets is not to ease Quills guilty conscience. I wouldn't consider keeping her brothers secret in this case to be 'wrong'.

 

It is just a way of living that makes me uneasy and from what Quill says it does her too.

[Scarlett]

Thanks for explaining. To me this sounds like a person has the right to interrogate (for lack of better word) another person's affairs (general, not sexual) in order to decide whether or not to maintain an opinion of lesser character value. But... why is a person entitled to another person's private information for the sake of their own curiosity? If one is operating on Christian values, then the onus is to judge a person's character righteously (John 7:24). I can understand the argument that it is righteous to be entitled to another person's private affairs if one is going to continue in the same faith community, but does the bible talk about being entitled to investigate and judge non-community members?

Oh my word! You seem to enjoy making things complicated. If someone says something bad about you ( you are having an affair) would you not like the chance to say, no that isn't true I am not having an affair? It isn't about satisfying curiosity AT ALL.

[chiguirre]

This is a bit of a swamp, but I have a personal anecdote that may help you out Quill. One of my BILs was a serious jerk when he was younger. Needless to say his first marriage suffered because of his general jerkiness and culminated in his publically cheating on my ex SIL (who had her own issues, she wasn't any great prize either back then). Divorce ensued. My MIL was very upset because ex SIL was very close to her, definitely her favorite DIL and possibly more important to her than her own son. She did a very wise thing. She pretended to be oblivious to all of the drama and kept in touch with SIL through the divorce, talking about their child, recipes, clothes, etc. She also kept up her relationship with BIL. After a few years, ex SIL remarried, BIL settled down with one of his affairs, and MIL had a good relationship with all of them. 20 years on, she still keeps in touch with ex SIL (I still think she's the favorite DIL after all these years) and still has a good relationship with BIL. I'm amazed that she managed to pull this off! If I were in your shoes, I'd take a page from my MIL's book, and try to be nice to everyone while ignoring their less than admirable actions. You'll reap a lifetime of happier relationships and genuine affection from the oddest places.

[albeto.]

I wouldn't consider keeping her brothers secret in this case to be 'wrong'.

 

This is what I keep asking: In what way is revealing another person's secret the right thing to do? It's not about clearing up rumors (as you suggest below), because there are no rumors. If there were questions, why not suggest the two parties to talk directly? If it's not about feeling relief for not holding a secret, what is the reason it's right for a person to take on this role of intermediary, a role no one asked for, and for all intents and purposes, would be unwelcome?

 

Oh my word! You seem to enjoy making things complicated. If someone says something bad about you ( you are having an affair) would you not like the chance to say, no that isn't true I am not having an affair? It isn't about satisfying curiosity AT ALL.

 

I don't enjoy making things complicated. I'm trying to understand what you're trying to communicate. You keep changing your message here (from - tell, you'll feel better; to - I would tell if it were me; to - it's the right thing to do). I can't read your mind, I can only read your words, and your words are confusing to me.

[Scarlett]

This is a bit of a swamp, but I have a personal anecdote that may help you out Quill. One of my BILs was a serious jerk when he was younger. Needless to say his first marriage suffered because of his general jerkiness and culminated in his publically cheating on my ex SIL (who had her own issues, she wasn't any great prize either back then). Divorce ensued. My MIL was very upset because ex SIL was very close to her, definitely her favorite DIL and possibly more important to her than her own son. She did a very wise thing. She pretended to be oblivious to all of the drama and kept in touch with SIL through the divorce, talking about their child, recipes, clothes, etc. She also kept up her relationship with BIL. After a few years, ex SIL remarried, BIL settled down with one of his affairs, and MIL had a good relationship with all of them. 20 years on, she still keeps in touch with ex SIL (I still think she's the favorite DIL after all these years) and still has a good relationship with BIL. I'm amazed that she managed to pull this off! If I were in your shoes, I'd take a page from my MIL's book, and try to be nice to everyone while ignoring their less than admirable actions. You'll reap a lifetime of happier relationships and genuine affection from the oddest places.

I think this can work....my mom did similar with my brother and his first wive ( mother of her first 2 grand kids)....but she did have a talk with him initially expressing her disapproval of what he was doing.

 

And amazingly 4 years out from my divorce she has been pleasant to my xh several times when they've run into each other. I don't think that would be as easy for her though if he had not ended his affair and made sincere apologies to me and our son.