If you are teaching a living foreign language...

[EmilyGF]

do you also teach latin?

 

If so, when do you begin it?

 

I speak German about 1-3 hours per day with my kids, depending on my energy level, and am vaguely teaching them to read it, but have had a hard time implementing any foreign language curriculum because they are all wrong for them. I can't use classroom teacher curricula, and my kids understand the language. Maybe Rosetta Stone for expression? 

 

So, I do think I could make a Latin curriculum happen, just not the German ones.

 

Emily

[...................]

My dd is learning Spanish with Rosetta Stone.  (We almost quit but decided to keep going b/c it's what we have)...

 

I will not therefore teach Latin.  It's not that I don't think that Latin and Spanish would both be beneficial.  They are both beneficial for different reasons.  

 

Latin trains the mind, Latin is easier to learn and more logical. There are all those Latin roots which help with Spelling and also comprehension/vocab. Latin is also, in some ways, less daunting because perhaps there would not be a tendency to compare oneself to the many (many) children who are fluent in a Living language.  Latin also provides one with the ability to read some of the greatest written works of the greatest thinkers of the world....

 

BUT there's just only so much time in the day.  Period.

 

Edited to Say:  My son will start Spanish with Getting Started with Spanish.  We decided to drop Greek because of too many other commitments and my inability to teach it.  

[...................]

I wanted to add, however, that I have read of a few homeschoolers that forego formal history, Science, art, music, and many other things and they focus mainly and solely on foreign language.  It's all in what you make it.  If you want to teach two languages, children are truly sponges!  They can learn it.  But it will take time, money, and dedication and it's difficullt to make time for everything in life.

[Miss Tick]

We've been doing Spanish with a mish-mash of things (similar situation to yours except I am not fluent, just conversational). As a test, we are using Getting Started With Latin this year (3rd grade). My pencilled-in plan is to ease Latin up to a standard curriculum next year, and if necessary reduce Spanish to maintenance level.

[Roadrunner]

We are doing French. I don't plan on starting Latin (or it might be a second living language, still undecided), until after my kids have a very good grounding in French grammar and can read and speak fluently. We spend at least an hour on French every school day and I am oping in two or three years my kids will be adding a second language. We do have a native speaker at home and opportunities for immersion, which we haven't yet to take advantage, but which factor in my ambitious schedule.

[Arcadia]

We are doing Chinese as native,  German and French as foreign language. The only other "language" I'll be willing to squeeze in would be Italian terms (music).  Of course they are free to learn to sing any latin songs they want to learn from youtube or library dvds.

 

ETA:

They are also free to learn any other language they wish with library resources which is wonderful here.  However I don't have the energy to "help" (learn together with) them.

[Tress]

:D we don't have a choice.

 

In the Netherlands every child starts studying English in grade 7 (after some light introduction in grade 5-6) and has to study that all the way through to grade 10-11-12 (depending on their track). Everyone also starts French in grade 7 and studies that for at least 2 years, but can choose to study it longer. The children who are on the classical college prep track will also start Latin and Greek in grade 7 (and continue with it untill the state exams in grade 12). Everyone starts German in grade 8 for at least 2 years.

 

With my kids I start teaching English in K, add Latin in grade 4, plan to add Greek in grade 6 and need to add French&German in grade 7. No choice about it if I want my kids to take the state exams, and without state exams you can not do anything.

[anabelneri]

We start French exposure early (English is our primary language), and at 4th grade my eldest got to choose a 2nd language.  Latin was an option, but she chose Japanese.  My 2nd is in K this year, starting formal French classes, and then next year will likely add Japanese (she's being exposed already b/c of dd#1).  I'm still on the fence about whether or not she will get to choose a language at 4th grade; that would likely mean my #3 would be exposed to French, Japanese, and a 3rd language... but as the pp said, there's only so much time in the day!

 

:)

[SorrelZG]

Well I'm mostly not teaching so much as supporting the children in learning Khmer (I am learning also and not greatly ahead of them). We have a tutor that does the teaching (and DH some, also). I teach Latin after phonics (Latin is ridiculously easier than Khmer).

[Laura Corin]

We started a living language when they were small (4 and 7 respectively) then added in Latin (not dropping the living language) when they were nine or ten.  We then added a further living language at about age twelve.  Hobbes also did some Ancient Greek for fun.

 

L

[Tress]

So, you are homeschooling in NL? My friends tell me that this is absolutely impossible now, at least for natives, possibly unless you are a traveler and don't have a fixed place of residence. Are you American? Would you please tell me more about how homeschooling in Holland works?

 

No, I'm Dutch.

 

At the moment it is still possible to homeschool, but only for religious reasons. Academic or other reasons are an absolute no-go. But the situation is about to be changed, before the summer recess the Secretary of Education announced that he plans to send in, after the summer recess, a proposal for a law to make homeschooling illegal. We are all anxiously awaiting that proposal. From past voting history, we expect most parties to vote in agreement with the proposal. :crying:

 

If that happens we will have no choice but to either send the kids to school or emigrate.

 

Of course homeschoolers in the Netherlands are very busy lobbying, writing news articles, giving interviews and we are still hoping that nothing comes of it....but it is difficult to keep hope, at least I find it very difficult :( .

[Tress]

Thanks for sharing, but I am sorry to hear that. In my current country of residence, Parliament just made the opposite decision and finally legalized homeschooling.

 

I lived in Holland part of my childhood and went to school there. Dutch is also one of the languages we speak in our home, to bring this back on topic :). I am not liking what I hear about all the social and political developments in Holland at all. It seems like the whole tolerance thing went right out the window and civil rights are being lost in the process. 

 

Yes, Holland is getting more and more intolerant. It's such a shame.

 

My Dutch friend has four twice exceptional (gifted/autistic) kids and their school is just being changed into something even less adequate. She'd like to homeschool but says it's impossible. That's a shame because the kids' needs are not being met in school at all. I heard stories about Dutch teens sailing (literally, on a boat) through Europe to avoid school as well. 

 

Your friend is right, it is almost impossible to get your kids *out* of the school system. My kids have never been to school and that made it easier legally to homeschool. I'm not saying it can't be done. Parents have gone to court and have been given the right to take the kids out of school, but it is difficult and can take years, with quiet often heavy involvement of CPS (very stressful). It would be a shame if your friend would go through all that trouble now, to find out that in a few months the kids have to go back to school because homeschooling is no longer possible.

 

Yes, there were two autistic&gifted brothers who were sailing around Europe because they could not get accepted at a appropriate school and also could not get permission to homeschool. So sad.

 

[MinivanMom]

We teach French and start when they are small.  I always thought we would do a 2nd foreign language, but (not being fluent in multiple foreign languages myself) it has been good for our whole family to be focused on just the one language.  If my children want to add a 2nd foreign language as they approach high school age then it will probably be something they do independent of *me*.  I will be looking into classes or a tutor for support.  I will leave it up to them to choose between Latin or a 2nd living language.  I'm pretty sure my oldest will want to study Spanish as her 2nd language, but her younger brother really wants to learn both Latin and Italian.  I'll just do my best to help them find the resources they need.

[Roadrunner]

:D we don't have a choice.

 

In the Netherlands every child starts studying English in grade 7 (after some light introduction in grade 5-6) and has to study that all the way through to grade 10-11-12 (depending on their track). Everyone also starts French in grade 7 and studies that for at least 2 years, but can choose to study it longer. The children who are on the classical college prep track will also start Latin and Greek in grade 7 (and continue with it untill the state exams in grade 12). Everyone starts German in grade 8 for at least 2 years.

 

With my kids I start teaching English in K, add Latin in grade 4, plan to add Greek in grade 6 and need to add French&German in grade 7. No choice about it if I want my kids to take the state exams, and without state exams you can not do anything.

If I am reading this right, some (classical track) will be studying five foreign languages? I am wondering what is the level of fluency (reading fluency is fine as well) by the time kids graduate?

Also is there any foreign language instruction in public elementary school?

[2_girls_mommy]

Our focus is on latin.  For 2 yrs that was dd's only foreign language.  We added Spanish last year in 5th grade, but we do it half speed.  It isn't our focus.  It is more for familiarity and exposure at this point.  So our schedule is 3 days latin, 2 days Spanish a week.  And on a busy week, Spanish is dropped to catch up on Latin.

[Tress]

If I am reading this right, some (classical track) will be studying five foreign languages? I am wondering what is the level of fluency (reading fluency is fine as well) by the time kids graduate?

Also is there any foreign language instruction in public elementary school?

Yes, the kids on the classical university prep track are studying 5 foreign languages for a couple of years. English and Latin&Greek are mandated until 12 grade, they can choose if they continue studying French and German after 2-3 years.

 

However, in the Netherlands only about ~10% of the students attend university and of those 10% only half will attend the classical prep track, so you are talking about the top 5% of the students.The other half of those 10% attends a non-classical university prep track, so only modern foreign languages.

 

*All* students however study English from grade 7 onwards and French&German for at least 2-3 years.

 

The level of fluency depends on the track:

the lowest track (VMBO) demands an end-level of A2.

the middle track (HAVO) demands an end-level of B1.

the highest track (VWO = university prep) demands an end-level of B2.

 

For those levels, see here.

 

I can only speak for the VWO-level, we were expected to be able to read on the level of Austen/Dickens and have a conversation about those books in English. (I dropped French and German after 3 years, so didn't do any state exams for those....and I don't remember a thing I learnt.)

 

Recently schools have started to teach English in grade 5-6, but that is very minimal: colors, days of the week, animals, favourite food, that sort of things.

[Roadrunner]

Tress, that's impressive even if it's only top 5% of students. I am assuming five foreign languages means at least three hours of work on languages alone every day.

[...................]

Wow does anyone else feel like a total loser after reading this thread?  I mean, I can't even seem to get my kids through one foreign language let alone 5.

[umsami]

My husband is Egyptian, so we started with Arabic.   Arabic is weird in that nobody really speaks the standardized version...everybody has a dialect.  Then the Qur'anic Arabic is kind of like Old English.  DS1 can read Arabic (with vowel marks which usually only exist in the Qur'an)... and we're working on spoken Egyptian Arabic this year.  We're also doing some Qur'anic Arabic, but minimal...5 words/week vocab.

 

Probably my best foreign language is French, and my two eldest have been bugging me to let them learn French, so we might start that as soon as I can get together a curriculum.  We have a new neighbor who is Algerian, and speaks fluent French (and Arabic)...so I'm going to see if she has any desire to earn some money with tutoring.  My accent is OK for an American, but if they can learn from somebody with a better accent, then by all means, I'll do it.

 

I took Latin in 6th grade, and it was one of the most useful things I ever did.  I did horribly... but learned a lot. :)  I hope to start it around 6th for my kids as well.  We've done words here and there when they come up for vocab, but nothing formal yet.  Will probably use Minimus when the time comes.

[mohop]

My DD goes to my mother about 4-5 times a week for Arabic instruction.  She is only 5, but we will probably not teach her Latin in the future, at least not until high school, and even then, my preference would be for her to learn a living language like Spanish.  I don't feel bad about this at all, as a lot of the benefit in learning Latin also applies to learning classical Arabic (which is the way Arabic is formally written and read, as opposed to the way it is spoken), especially in that it is extremely systematic and also will be more beneficial to learn than Latin for us for its religious association. 

[Tress]

Wow does anyone else feel like a total loser after reading this thread? I mean, I can't even seem to get my kids through one foreign language let alone 5.

Sorry, Calming Tea! It wasn't meant to be intimidating! And I haven't managed (yet) to pull off the 5 languages either :D.

 

Studying several languages is possible, it is not even necessary to stagger the start time. In 7th grade we just started in the first week with English, French and Latin.....no problem.

 

But .....and this is a important.....it takes a lot of time! Dutch students can do this, because school is only for academics and entrance to university is solely judged by how well you do on the state exams.

 

On this forum I see American students spend countless hours on debate/speech (I think that's awesome), volunteering, doing all kinds of things to be able to put 'leadership positions' on their resume, spend lots of hours on sports/band/music etc. Dutch students don't do this. They might have hobbies, they may practice a sport for 1-2 hour a week, have a little parttime job, but that's it.

[sagira]

Yes, the kids on the classical university prep track are studying 5 foreign languages for a couple of years. English and Latin&Greek are mandated until 12 grade, they can choose if they continue studying French and German after 2-3 years.

 

However, in the Netherlands only about ~10% of the students attend university and of those 10% only half will attend the classical prep track, so you are talking about the top 5% of the students.The other half of those 10% attends a non-classical university prep track, so only modern foreign languages.

 

*All* students however study English from grade 7 onwards and French&German for at least 2-3 years.

 

The level of fluency depends on the track:

the lowest track (VMBO) demands an end-level of A2.

the middle track (HAVO) demands an end-level of B1.

the highest track (VWO = university pre) demands an end-level of B2.

 

For those levels, see here.

 

I can only speak for the VWO-level, we were expected to be able to read on the level of Austen/Dickens and have a conversation about those books in English. (I dropped French and German after 3 years, so didn't do any state exams for those....and I don't remember a thing I learnt.)

 

Recently schools have started to teach English in grade 5-6, but that is very minimal: colors, days of the week, animals, favourite food, that sort of things.

Ah, this is all familiar to me as I attended VWO in Aruba. We had Dutch beginning in first (our native language is different), Spanish beginning in 5th, English beginning in 6th, and French beginning in 7th. That said, I cannot get my ds9 to speak Spanish even though he's been at it since K!

 

This year (fifth) we're studying Spanish - including grammar- using Galore Park as well as Rosetta Stone, and I have high hopes. In sixth, coinciding with Ancient history studies, we're beginning Latin, possibly with Latin Prep. My plan is to study Latin at least in 6th, 7th, and 8th grades. Continue Spanish until 12th, add a language of choice if he wants to in HS.

[EmilyGF]

Thanks! This is an interesting discussion!

 

Emily

[Mom0012]

Both my kids started with Spanish a few years ago. Just a light elementary program, and then GSWS. Last year, my dd took an online Spanish course and added in a Latin class, which we take together. We are starting Oklahoma State University's Spanish 2 program next month and continuing with the Latin class. She spends about an hour a day on each language.

 

She's in 6th grade. I think starting a serious Latin class last year was great timing for her. I don't know that it would have benefitted her to start that earlier. I do wish I had started Spanish earlier when she would have happily watched DVDs in Spanish over and over again.

 

I took French in high school, so I did the best I could to give her a start in Spanish and then felt outside classes made the most sense for these subjects. If I was going to do Latin at home, I would have used Memoria Press for that.

 

My son is just sticking with doing Spanish with me using a combination of Pimsleur and SYRWTLS. He won't be taking Latin.

[Giraffe]

DD is American going to school in Turkey (in Turkish). She is studying English and French (1st grade). I hope to start Latin with her next year. I don't want to overwhelm her this year as her Turkish is just becoming fluent.

[Mena]

My kids pick up some French from the time they're very little, then we start French as an academic subject once they're reading well in English. We add Latin around age 10. A few of the kids have dabbled in other languages, but French and Latin are the only ones we've stuck with for more than a year or two. 

[maize]

We are attempting to study multiple living languages, Latin is not a priority at this point. I would like my children to have some exposure to Latin, bit maybe just as a word roots study

[KeepItGoing]

Emily, I would not recommend Rosetta Stone to you. If you speak German for hours a day to your kids, they already know everything they'll learn from Rosetta Stone, or at the least they will, soon, and at much less expense.

 

I've put together a list of learning resources for German. You might find some of them helpful; probably less so the ones at the top of the page, and more so the ones listed for after you have some exposure to the language. I don't know how old your kids are, so I don't know which resources are best to recommend, but you can spend some time exploring on your own.

[...................]

I definitely have high hopes for Spanish as long as we devote time to it...although I felt like a loser when I read your post, I now feel really encouraged because I'm thinking, "Gee. if they can study 2 foreign languages to fluency and 2 dead languages, then surely we can study just one to fluency or nearly so!"   :laugh:

 

I DO feel better about understanding HOW the Dutch go about doing that.  I can understand it much better, now that you have explained.  The parents and children have different priorities and manage their time differently.  If we devote enough time to it, eventually we can succeed.