hearts4homeschooling Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 I am looking for ideas on what to do with an 11th grader who doesn't understand grammar much at all even after using several different programs. It doesn't seem to stick. Do you know of any remedial-type programs that aren't totally elementary in their presentation? Thank you in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nansk Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 Take a look at Steps to Good Grammar from Walch.com. I have it and really like it. Another good option, but expensive, is Analytical Grammar. ETA: Here are some threads you may get more ideas from: Looking for a one book grammar program Looking for an easy, workbook-based grammar program. I also have the Learning Grammar Through Writing book mentioned in the first thread, and that is one more option for you. You can get it cheaply used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie in MN Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 If the student has used "several different programs" and come away without understanding grammar, then I might avoid using workbook programs. When I tutored in a grammar-heavy program, I saw a lot of kids with total disconnect between the workbook and their writing. I might try working with his actual writing, every day. When you find an issue, teach it to him using one of the workbooks you have or an online source or your own words. Have him write it out in his own grammar notebook. Have him add a short example, and next time it comes up he can add another example. I think some kids (a lot of kids, maybe) have to see the purpose of grammar, have to see grammar in actual use, or otherwise it just sounds like Charlie Brown's teacher, waa-waa-waa, with nothing in their brains to connect it with (even if they get the workbook correct). Julie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeaCookiesBears Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 What Programs have you tried? Two programs that have worked for me is Analytical Grammar and Winston Grammar but more than the programs itself siting down with dd14 learning together has been the most help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hearts4homeschooling Posted April 18, 2013 Author Share Posted April 18, 2013 Thank you for your responses. What Programs have you tried? We have tried: BJU Grammar and Writing 6 and 7 with DVD instruction Easy Grammar several levels Grammarlogues Winston Grammar CQLA (Character Quality Language Arts) There may have been more, but that's all I can think of just now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingedradical Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 I like Warriner's English Grammar and Composition: Complete Course. It is usually available for under $10 if you buy it second hand on Amazon. There are four different levels but the Complete Course has everything and it is not presented in a child like fashion, although some of the topics are a bit dated. I used it in school during the 60's and then chose to use it when I taught my children. One of my sons is now an editor. He keeps his copy in his office and has been known to take it off the shelf, show it to a sloppy writer and tell him/her to buy a copy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katilac Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 When I have tried several typical programs without success, I figure it's time to go in a new direction, try a new approach. For grammar, maybe The Magic Lens from Michael Clay Thompson? They go in-depth, he's a definite language and grammar nerd, but start at the beginning with parts of speech and so on. the Royal Fireworks Press site has lots of info on his teaching suggestions, and samples from the various books: http://www.rfwp.com/pages/michael-clay-thompson/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mumto2 Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 When I saw the thread title I had planned to suggest the Blue Book of Grammar frequently used with IEW. Stewart English is another good option. Then I thought about my own experience in school. I never got the "why bother" with grammar lessons until I was taking French. Maybe a foreign language would help like latin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jann in TX Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 Can you clarify 'understand'... I ask this because one can be very successful at life and not know what a past participle is. Is the disconnect in USING grammar correctly in writing (writing like 'spoken' or even 'texted' fragements) or is in in labeling or diagramming the parts of speech? Do you live in an area where spoken English is dramatically different from formal English? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbeym Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 :bigear: Following this thread. My DS has issues with grammar too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lolly Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 Can you clarify 'understand'... I ask this because one can be very successful at life and not know what a past participle is. Is the disconnect in USING grammar correctly in writing (writing like 'spoken' or even 'texted' fragements) or is in in labeling or diagramming the parts of speech? Do you live in an area where spoken English is dramatically different from formal English? This is what I was wondering as well. Does he just not do well in a grammar textbook, or does he not use it appropriately in speech and writing? If the first, just forget about it and move on. If the second, the only real way to battle those demons is by frequently being corrected when verbal/written mistakes are made. Just studying it in a book doesn't really do away with lifelong habits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hearts4homeschooling Posted April 18, 2013 Author Share Posted April 18, 2013 Can you clarify 'understand'... I ask this because one can be very successful at life and not know what a past participle is. Is the disconnect in USING grammar correctly in writing (writing like 'spoken' or even 'texted' fragements) or is in in labeling or diagramming the parts of speech? Do you live in an area where spoken English is dramatically different from formal English? This is what I was wondering as well. Does he just not do well in a grammar textbook, or does he not use it appropriately in speech and writing? If the first, just forget about it and move on. If the second, the only real way to battle those demons is by frequently being corrected when verbal/written mistakes are made. Just studying it in a book doesn't really do away with lifelong habits. He uses English perfectly fine and expresses himself verbally very well; better than I do much of the time. He also writes with correct grammar. This is likely due to having been a voracious reader his entire life. I am enjoying this new stage of having intelligent conversations with him (he's my oldest). It is the schoolwork that he doesn't get; figuring out what part of speech a word is on a consistent basis. I am not sure he would pass a college English course since he has not passed a high school-level course. He is not likely to be a writer or editor. Your recommendation is to not worry about it? When I saw the thread title I had planned to suggest the Blue Book of Grammar frequently used with IEW. Stewart English is another good option. Then I thought about my own experience in school. I never got the "why bother" with grammar lessons until I was taking French. Maybe a foreign language would help like latin. I will ask him if he would like to study Latin. At this point, with grade 12 looming, he has input in which courses he takes. We have studied Spanish for one year during his grade 10, but that wasn't quite long enough to get past the basics and into the grammar meat. Thank you for all replies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jann in TX Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 College English classes will NOT have students state the parts of speech. Writing classes focus on writing, with correct grammar useage being only a part of the process... he will never have to underline past-participles or see worksheets that have you identify nouns and adjetives. We used http://englishgrammar101.com for editing practice-- it also has parts of speech. Free, online and no-fuss. If his writing skills are strong and his use of grammar is proper then move on-- he will NOT fail at college because of it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hearts4homeschooling Posted April 18, 2013 Author Share Posted April 18, 2013 College English classes will NOT have students state the parts of speech. Writing classes focus on writing, with correct grammar useage being only a part of the process... he will never have to underline past-participles or see worksheets that have you identify nouns and adjetives. We used http://englishgrammar101.com for editing practice-- it also has parts of speech. Free, online and no-fuss. If his writing skills are strong and his use of grammar is proper then move on-- he will NOT fail at college because of it! Thank you so much for the assurance that grammar is proven by usage rather than worksheets in college. I will check out EnglishGrammar101 online at your recommendation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lolly Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 He uses English perfectly fine and expresses himself verbally very well; better than I do much of the time. He also writes with correct grammar. This is likely due to having been a voracious reader his entire life. I am enjoying this new stage of having intelligent conversations with him (he's my oldest). It is the schoolwork that he doesn't get; figuring out what part of speech a word is on a consistent basis. I am not sure he would pass a college English course since he has not passed a high school-level course. He is not likely to be a writer or editor. Your recommendation is to not worry about it? I will ask him if he would like to study Latin. At this point, with grade 12 looming, he has input in which courses he takes. We have studied Spanish for one year during his grade 10, but that wasn't quite long enough to get past the basics and into the grammar meat. Thank you for all replies. AGreeing with Jann. Only proper use of grammar required while writing in college. There are no college grammar classes whatsoever that I know about! THe only time he will need grammar knowledge is in order to figure out what his teacher is talking about if he is told that he has split infinitives (or some other such beast) in his writing. It is nice to have an idea what you are being told without having to look it up in a grammar guide! Definitely move on and concentrate on his writing next year, that is what he will be using in college! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiana Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 Chiming in with everyone else -- even the college English placement test I took just said 'bubble in which sentence is correct', so if you knew which one was correct by inspection you were fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prairie~Phlox Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 Thanks for the Englishgrammar101 site. Do you know if you create an account if the student can then e-mail you their results? I've found other sites to be like this, where they take a quiz and then can e-mail the results to me. Just wondering if anyone knew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helena Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 Cozy Grammar? http://www.splashesfromtheriver.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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