Saxon 7/6 in 4th grade - where to go next?

[redquilthorse]

My DS is finishing 4th grade, but he has a late September birthday and could be either 4th or 5th grade depending upon what school he was in (private and public schools here have different cut-off dates). We are now slightly more than halfway through Saxon 7/6. We used BJU math until this year. He placed into 7/6 using the Saxon placement test. He does well learning the new concepts, but has some minor trouble retaining them. I am not sure whether to keep moving along with 7/6, finishing it before the fall, or to take a break by doing other programs like Life of Fred (which we have), then going back to BJU maybe at the 6th grade level in the fall. That would put him only one year ahead in math. I want to be sure that he is developmentally ready not only to learn the concepts but also retain them. Do we just need to do more practice and keep plugging away? If we continue, then do we use 8/7 next year or skip to Algebra 1/2? Wouldn't that mean he is doing prealgebra in 5th grade? I should add he is not this far ahead in grammar and writing. Would love advice from anyone who has BTDT.

[Mommy22alyns]

I'd keep my mind open to using other curriculum. FWIW, Rebecca is doing CLE 400 with a couple of bonus things, and she just tested solidly into 7/6. So things look different with various programs.

[happypamama]

Our DD is finishing Saxon 7/6 up this year as a fifth grader. She's good at math but doesn't love it, but I do not feel that she needs both 8/7 AND Algebra 1/2. At the same time, I don't feel that she needs to do Algebra 1/2 entirely in sixth grade and then Algebra 1 in seventh. So, I am going to have her start Algebra 1/2 as a sixth grader, but we're going to do it over two years (and then she'll do Algebra 1 in eighth grade). We're also going to supplement with lots of word problems and the like during sixth and seventh grades, because she can also use the practice in that sort of application, and I don't feel that they are Saxon's strong point anyway. I found many word problems at fi.edu, but if you google "pre-algebra word problems," other sites will come up as well.

 

LoF would be a good choice, and I keep hearing people mention Art of Problem Solving as well. DD personally did not care for LoF, as she doesn't care for silliness, but ymmv.

[wapiti]

Wouldn't that mean he is doing prealgebra in 5th grade? I should add he is not this far ahead in grammar and writing. Would love advice from anyone who has BTDT.

 

Meet him where he is in math, regardless of where he is in other subjects. (It is not unusual for a student to have significant strengths in certain subjects. BTDT.)

 

We're also going to supplement with lots of word problems and the like during sixth and seventh grades, because she can also use the practice in that sort of application, and I don't feel that they are Saxon's strong point anyway. I found many word problems at fi.edu, but if you google "pre-algebra word problems," other sites will come up as well.

 

LoF would be a good choice, and I keep hearing people mention Art of Problem Solving as well.

 

A good source of prealgebra word problems is the free problem-solving practice program at AoPS, Alcumus (set the subject to prealgebra by making the others inactive).

[Luckymama]

PreAlgebra is unusual but not unheard-of in fifth grade ;)

 

[Ravin]

I'd probably go with AoPS and Fred.

[kiana]

Nothing wrong for a kid to be more advanced in one subject than another. Overall though I'd prefer a program with a more conceptual bent for a young accelerated learner.

[mathnmusic]

Not sure if this helps, but my ds8 also tested into 7/6 with the Saxon placement test, but I didn't feel comfortable starting him there so we're doing 5/4 at a quick pace, like 2-4 lessons/day. While most of it's review, the thorough explanations seem to cement the concepts firmly for him. If the issue is retention, do you think it would help to backtrack or go more slowly?

[boscopup]

Did he not do well with BJU? Why did you switch to Saxon in the first place?

 

I would probably pick a different program. There's nothing wrong with prealgebra in 5th (we're about to start it in 4th right around the time my son turns 9), but I'd want to get there using a more difficult program. I know when my son was in the middle of Singapore 4B, he would have placed in Saxon 7/6.

 

On the retention thing... Saxon is laid out very differently from other programs. They introduce a concept, let the child practice it with sometimes as little as 3-4 problems, then the rest of the lesson is review. Sometimes the child is learning more about previous concepts via the review problems. While some kids do well with this method, many do not. I and my son both learn best by learning a concept, practicing it until it's mastered, followed by reviewing it occasionally. I believe BJU was set up that way? Singapore and Math Mammoth are set up that way as well. So it may be that your son needs more practice the day he learns the concept.

 

If he did well with BJU, I'd probably go back to BJU, and maybe throw in some Singapore Challenging Word Problems on the side (there are some doozies in there!).

 

Also, math ability and writing ability to not go hand in hand. My son is well ahead in math, reading, and grammar, but his writing ability is at the low end of grade level. His brain works a lot faster than his hand. ;) Kids can be all over the place in different subjects, so don't let his grammar and writing ability make you think he shouldn't be ahead in math. It's really not that unusual. He sounds like a very bright boy who is good at math. Let him be good at it! But pick a more difficult program so he doesn't just zoom through with no where to go. While my son will be doing prealgebra in 4th, he will NOT be doing calculus in 9th. I'm planning to use AoPS books to stretch out his sequence (and keep him challenged!), so that he hits calculus no earlier than 11th, possibly 12th. If he did Calculus in 9th, I'd be stuck teaching college level math, because he needs 4 years of math in high school, and my local CC and uni don't accept anyone prior to their junior year (and the uni actually said senior year, and I'd probably need the uni, not the CC, for math classes!).

[bethben]

My ds placed into algebra 1/2 in 5th grade (also late September birthday). He has almost completed Saxon Algebra. He's doing just fine and having no problems with understanding. You ds may do just as well. They can always take college level math classes in high school.

 

Beth

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

The school ds attends uses Saxon 8/7 for 5th grade. I would lean towards Saxon 8/7 if he is having a little trouble. I know this is redundant but I would make sure he does every problem and every test that comes with saxon. I find the Art Reed DVDs useful for review as well. If he has a problem in a specific area such as fractions or decimals perhaps you can supplement with The Key to...series.

[redquilthorse]

Thank you! Your replies have given me a lot to think about. We switched to Saxon for 2 reasons. A good friend of mine suggested it because that is what she did with her math accelerated boys (one of which is now at Rice University). The other is because I kind of wanted to use the DIVE CDs. I am not confident in my ability to teach math, especially the "why" of math. I might be able to do the calculations, but I don't think I can explain it well. I also did not get any of the mental math that kids learn now. Math is not my forte. My husband is a math person, but when we started this year, he was not available to teach math. He still isn't available every day, but he has a better schedule now, at least for the time being. He could probably help out when we hit a concept I can't teach. I actually liked BJU and was not concerned about whether it would be challenging enough.

 

I admit we have not done every problem each lesson. It was not an issue until just this last week, when he started getting more of them wrong. So I realized he might need more practice. But honestly, he loved math until this year. I think he still likes math, but I don't hear the same level of interest from him.

 

So, I own the previous edition of both math 5 and 6 because a friend gave them to me. What if I try picking one of those up and using for the remainder of our year? Would I start in 6th? Is the new edition significantly better? (We used the new edition through last year.)

[redquilthorse]

One more thing I realized is he prefers to learn from the book instead of the DIVE CD. But I still have him watch it to get the explanation most of the time.

[wapiti]

I am not confident in my ability to teach math, especially the "why" of math.

 

Saxon is not what I'd personally choose for explaining the "why." The learning philosophy involves coming to understand concepts through extensive repetition of procedures rather than through concept-focused instruction.

 

But honestly, he loved math until this year. I think he still likes math, but I don't hear the same level of interest from him.

 

 

Saxon is not often known for instilling a love of math.

 

A good friend of mine suggested it because that is what she did with her math accelerated boys

 

 

Saxon would not be my choice for a math-accelerated student due to the format that makes actual acceleration difficult and due to the learning philosophy. (Come visit the Accelerated Learning board :))

[RootAnn]

If he was doing well with BJU, I'd go back to BJU. (I wouldn't, at this point, move elsewhere.)

The first thing I would do is talk to my kid & see what he thinks -- does he want to continue with Saxon 7/6? Or would he rather return to BJU?

 

If he would rather go back to BJU, then you have to see what the next book contains. If possible, pick up where you left off -- moving faster through the lessons where he already knows the material in a solid way. It won't hurt him to get more practice. If you were using the new editions, stick to the new editions. OhElizabeth says they are significantly more difficult than the old editions (as in, almost a whole grade level).

[redquilthorse]

Well, I asked him, and he has a strong preference for Saxon. Go figure.

[redquilthorse]

Well, I asked him, and he has a strong preference for Saxon. Go figure.

[redquilthorse]

Well, I asked him, and he has a strong preference for Saxon. Go figure.

[redquilthorse]

So, not sure what happened there..... :huh:

[RootAnn]

Ok, so since he prefers to stick with Saxon, keep plugging away on it. Do ALL the problems each lesson because that's what they recommend. (I'd give him a time limit per day so he doesn't spent hours on math. Forty-five minutes (some would say an hour, but I don't get there until 6th grade) each day, picking up wherever I left off the day before is more than enough for 4th grade, IMO. But that's up to you.

 

There is much debate on the 8/7 or Algebra 1/2 thing. I'd see how he was doing when he's closer to the end of 7/6. He might want to switch (away from Saxon) at that point. You never know.

[happycc]

The school ds attends uses Saxon 8/7 for 5th grade.

 

 

Saxon 8/7 for fifth grade at the local ps school? I thought 87 meant average 8th grader and quick 7th graders. My numbering for Saxon must be wrong. But that is basically where my fifth graders placed 87 and I thought my kids placed ahead according to the diagnostic test but if the local ps school is using 87 for fifth grade than I must be wrong.

So that means Algebra for next year and so forth?