Prestigious university vs. the perfect course?

[Laura Corin]

Calvin is starting to decide which universities to apply to. He might be able to get into a very prestigious university, but is starting to think that the actual course content (which is much more fixed in English universities - not many options in general) at another good university is preferable. His question (voiced) is, 'What if I choose the other one, and all my life I'll know that I could have gone to X?' My (unvoiced) concern is that having the prestigious university on his record will open doors for him in his chosen career that might be closed to him otherwise.

 

There are no immediate financial implications to the choice - both universities charge the same fees.

 

Any advice/experience?

 

Thanks

 

Laura

[MolleenCarie]

Here's my vote: The course content will only mean more while he's actually taking the courses; go with the one that will make a greater difference in his life longer than the time he's at school. In fifteen years, he'd tell himself to go for the prestigious school.

 

When you're young, the content seems to matter more because that's what you're doing at the time. You think the world is going to open up to you when you get out there. You don't realize you need connections + brains.

 

The course content school seems like the romantic choice. Be practical.

[sahm99]

I am not sure I agree.

 

My brother (just turned 26) had a choice like this to make a couple of years ago. He was a prime candidate for Oxbridge (as sure as one could possibly be) and decided to go to Warwick, persuing a course of study he was particularly interested in.

He has not regretted his choice one second and his career is unfolding "perfectly", most certainly unaffected by the "lesser university"....

 

I would think that professionals in general will be able to make the distinction between someone making a deliberate choice, vs. someone taking what is left...

 

Now, my mom, that is another story...the poor woman will forever be stuck without one of hers making it to Oxford ;-)

 

 

P.S. I think the situation might be different in the USA... Here (Europe) undergraduate courses of study are very distinct, with a considerable direct impact on future employment/professional development.

[Gwen in VA]

Might he make "better" more relevant contacts at the U where his field is more of a focus?

 

I mean, contacts are wonderful, but in order to have a meaningful impact on one's life, the contacts have to have relevance to one's career path/field.

[Candid]

This might be a place to do some on the ground investigating.

• Ask the professors at the less prestigious university what they think, same for prestigious university.
  
• Find people doing the work he expects to be doing and ask them. It would be better if he can find some from both schools.
  
• Ask employers of said folks what they think.
  

 

Finally, I don't know your son but you do. How changeable is he likely to be on this? If a lot, then then I would go with prestige over specialized study because it will give him options if he does change.

 

As a post doctoral student my dad chased a professor he wanted to work with from NY where Dad and mom were to LA and when they professor went to Stockholm, my dad followed him there. As it turned out another man at Stockholm proved to be a much better mentor for my dad.

 

Another factor is if he will need more graduate education to do the work he wants to do. In that case maybe going to the prestigious school and then going to the specialized school is the route to take. In the US most graduate programs won't take a student from their own program because they want diversity.

[Muttichen]

College is more than the courses -- it's also the people you are studying with and the opportunities you are exposed to. If the prestigious university draws the best students and faculty from all over the world, won't you have a richer experience?

[Gwen in VA]

How relevant (or irrelevant) is the better U's course of study? If the less-known U's course of study is superior by only one or two classes, that might be an argument for the better-known U, but if the course of study is markedly superior to the better-known U, going to the better-known U might actually prevent him from succeeding in his field.

 

For example, if a student in the U.S. wants to go into naval architecture, he should attend Webb Institute (or Southampton!) or maybe U. Michigan -- he should NOT go to MIT! Studying at MIT -- the "name" school in engineering -- would provide great preparation for work in sail design, but it would most likely not help him in the field of naval architecture!

 

Similarly, if you want to go into nursing, Harvard is NOT the college you want to attend!

[regentrude]

It depends a lot on the field. In some fields, it is important to have the prestigious name. In other fields, where you go for graduate school is the only thing that really matters; where you have done your undergraduate degree is not important as long as you received an education that prepared you to get into a good graduate school.

He should talk to people in the field he has chosen to study and find out.

 

I would also look carefully into the academics of his program. It may be that the "lesser" university has an outstanding program in his particular field and offers opportunities he might not have at the prestigious one (and that would be reflected in the coursework). I would not automatically opt for the prestigious name just because of "connections" later on.

 

Lastly, I would try to find out which school is the better "fit" for him, his personality, his abilities.

[Laura Corin]

How relevant (or irrelevant) is the better U's course of study? If the less-known U's course of study is superior by only one or two classes, that might be an argument for the better-known U, but if the course of study is markedly superior to the better-known U, going to the better-known U might actually prevent him from succeeding in his field.

 

 

He wants to study English and go into publishing. I don't think the content of the course will make a difference to his ability to enter this very competitive field. But the prestige might.

 

Laura

[Laura Corin]

College is more than the courses -- it's also the people you are studying with and the opportunities you are exposed to. If the prestigious university draws the best students and faculty from all over the world, won't you have a richer experience?

 

Thanks for reminding me of this. I went to a (much) lesser university for the particular course, and I didn't find the intellectual stimulation that I had hoped for from the other students.

 

Laura

[mumto2]

Some good friends who have sent their children through the best boarding schools have opted for the perfect program with their two that are uni age. They had the grades and certainly the connections. One is at a uni that I don't think is even on the next tier but the program is exactly what he wants. I will admit he probably has all the connections he will ever need thanks to his other schools but something to consider.

 

[Laura in CA]

Agreeing with pretty much everybody upthread (there is of course no easy answer!) .... I'll just add -- since I know you have lived on several continents! -- the international angle: Within his field, and within the home country, the "perfect course" uni might be best. However, if there is any chance Calvin will want to live and work overseas, I must say that a "name" uni DOES open doors. I attended a prestigious U.S. uni and then worked and lived in several foreign countries, and I KNOW it opened doors that I attended an Oxbridge-level uni that everyone in the world has heard of, rather than a Warwick-type uni -- which I am sure would have given me an excellent education, but foreigners would have said "Warwick?! huh?"

[flyingiguana]

My experience in the US is that it likely wouldn't matter to a student's future. The only people I've ever known to be swayed by prestige institutions are people no one would ever want to work with. Everyone else seems to have a pretty open mind. (Obviously, though I can't speak for your neck of the woods.)

 

I think the real question to ask is where he'd be happiest NOW. Which has the most interesting course of study? Which will provide the most intellectual stimulation? - and the answer to the 2nd question might not automatically be the prestige university. It may well be that he'd find more intellectual peers in a program that interests him more. It's also possible that the professors will be more interested in him, which will make the experience more valuable (and that he's more interested in what the professors are doing).

 

I'd see if he could talk to some of the professors at the two places. If possible, can he also talk to some current students?

 

All my life, I've known I could have gone to MIT (if the money had been available). I went to another quality university in the UC system. I've never regretted it. As the years have gone by, I've seen more and more that it just wasn't that big of a deal. The folks I know who went to MIT didn't do anything special. And no one really remembered where anyone went as an undergrad after they did grad school. (Same could be said of those kids I knew who went to Harvard, or Stanford....)

 

In the end, what's going to matter is how well he does wherever he goes. And that's going to require him being engaged. So I'd pick the place where he has the most likelihood of being engaged.

[Laura Corin]

And no one really remembered where anyone went as an undergrad after they did grad school. (Same could be said of those kids I knew who went to Harvard, or Stanford....)

 

 

I think this is a slight difference between the UK and the US. Whilst post-graduate courses are becoming more common here, many people go into companies with just an undergraduate degree and are trained within the company. This makes the undergraduate degree more important.

 

Laura

[Corraleno]

He wants to study English and go into publishing. I don't think the content of the course will make a difference to his ability to enter this very competitive field. But the prestige might.

 

In that case, I would definitely go with the prestige school. The "old boys" network is alive and well in the UK. DH's best friend from boarding school did PPE at Oxford and had his pick of several excellent jobs, ranging from finance to publishing, immediately after graduation, thanks to the alumni network. He accepted a great job with a major international publisher. After that he worked for an international computer magazine, even though he had zero tech background — he got that job by sitting next to someone at an alumni dinner. The Oxbridge name and the alumni network open doors everywhere.

 

Jackie

[Mabelen]

 

 

He wants to study English and go into publishing. I don't think the content of the course will make a difference to his ability to enter this very competitive field. But the prestige might.

 

Laura

 

 

In this case I would definitely go with the prestigious university. Having lived in the UK, I agree with Corraleno about the old boys network.

[freerange]

I think there's less difference between Oxbridge & other top tier universities, than between top tier & the rest. You might also want to consider contacts between universities & publishing houses. Do any courses include a work placement? Might it be worthwhile considering London for the possibility of part time work in his chosen field? (Although of course Oxford & Cambridge aren't short on publishers either!)

 

Have you looked for residentials at the universities he's considering? Can't help with specifics I'm afraid - I only know the STEM related ones!

[Sarah CB]

He wants to study English and go into publishing. I don't think the content of the course will make a difference to his ability to enter this very competitive field. But the prestige might.

 

Laura

 

 

We spent two years living in the UK and one thing that really struck me was how important the university you went to seemed to be for people. The firm where my dh worked seemed to only have lawyers from Oxford or Cambridge. "Where did you go to school?" seemed to be a question that was asked often.

 

If you were here, in Canada, I'd say go to whichever university has the better program. But, if I were over there, I'd be pushing my kids for Oxford or Cambridge.

[Mom0012]

This makes me think of my dad. He had been accepted at the Naval Academy in Annapolis, MD , but he wanted to be an aeronautical engineer and felt that the engineering program was better at a smaller, lesser-known school so he went there. Now, he knows that was a mistake.

 

However, he had a successful career, met my mother at the college he chose to attend ( and is still happily married), so you couldn't exactly call it a disaster. I think he has some regret because he now appreciates the magnitude of the opportunity he passed up, but I doubt it's something he thinks about often.

[AnIslandGirl]

Whilst post-graduate courses are becoming more common here, many people go into companies with just an undergraduate degree and are trained within the company. This makes the undergraduate degree more important.

 

Laura

 

 

In this case I would certainly choose the "prestige" school! Unfortunately a name really can open so many doors in the future. Best wishes on a tough choice.

[mom2bee]

Why doesn't he just apply and then choose from those places which accept him? I would personally pick the 'perfect course' (In fact, thats what I did.) I picked the school that would allow me to study what I really wanted to know and teach in the way that I wanted to learn.

 

I will always favor substance over superficial. (Not to say that a 'prestigious' school is superficial in every way, but I am anti hyper consumerism anyway. I don't wear NIke shoes because they say Nike, I wouldn't go to a school just because it is considered 'prestigious'.

[Laura Corin]

Why doesn't he just apply and then choose from those places which accept him? I would personally pick the 'perfect course' (In fact, thats what I did.) I picked the school that would allow me to study what I really wanted to know and teach in the way that I wanted to learn.

 

I will always favor substance over superficial. (Not to say that a 'prestigious' school is superficial in every way, but I am anti hyper consumerism anyway. I don't wear NIke shoes because they say Nike, I wouldn't go to a school just because it is considered 'prestigious'.

 

The prestigious universities have courses ranked in the top five in the world, but they tend to be a bit more traditional. Calvin is interested in world literature as well as British Literature, and English courses at Oxford and Cambridge tend not to be broad.

 

Yes, he will end up applying for both kinds of courses but - his school assumes - he should get several offers from which he can choose. That's why he and I are trying to work out in advance which would be the best way to go.

 

Thanks

 

Laura

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

I was in a hiring position at a big firm, and worked with HR very closely. I can tell you that the reputation of a university gets to to the A file faster than anything else.

[asta]

Follow the Prince.

 

 

A

[Laura Corin]

Follow the Prince.

 

 

A

 

But that's our local university - last place Calvin wants to go. Bump into his mother on the street? The horror!

 

Laura

[asta]

I read your reply to kid and he got a horrified look on his face as well. I'm the last person he wants to bump into! LOL

 

He's safe - we'll be on two different continents...

 

 

A