Need Ideas for Consequences for a 7 Year Old

[JumpyTheFrog]

Help me brainstorm ideas for consequences for a 7 year old boy. Nothing seems very effective for long and it's always been like this with him.

[LittleIzumi]

Consequences for doing what?

[Catwoman]

Consequences for doing what?

 

 

That's what I'm wondering, too. I don't think there is a one-size-fits-all consequence, so we need more details.

[Pamela H in Texas]

So you're trying to punish him into making better choices?

Not very likely...sorry. He either is or is not the kind of child who would learn to avoid punishment. Sounds like not.

Also, these kind of kids, even if you could "beat them into submission" (literally or not), are the ones who really NEED better discipline so they are making decisions for better reasons because they won't always be under the thumb of you or a warden or whatever....well, or you hope not at least.

 

Instead? Give him thinking skills. A good basic curriculum (helpful if you also have a child a little younger): Raising a Thinking Child by Myrna Shure.

 

ALLOW natural consequences and use logical ones. If you choose to give examples, we can share some ideas.

 

Give him MORE responsibility and the privileges associated - this seems backwards, but kids typically will step up if we give them the opportunity. This works better than waiting for them to show they are ready. At the same time, you may need to take some freedom back if they prove incapable. But that taste of something better may well help/work.

 

Restitution - He needs to make up for his mistakes AND a little extra. Example I often give is that if I run over the neighbor's chicken, I will pay for the chicken and apologize, but I'll do so with my famous apple pie in hand. (note: I no longer live anywhere near chickens and I do not bake...it is just an example!)

 

Tomato staking allows for relationship building, coaching, habit of better choices, etc.

[EKS]

I think the first thing is that you have to be sure you're using the word you mean to use. "Consequences" are just that--the logical result of a particular behavior or decision. Really, if you're having to invent consequences, it means that you're actually punishing a particular behavior or decision but for whatever reason not wanting to call it punishment.

[theYoungerMrsWarde]

Is he old enough to ask him what he thinks the consequences should be? Not committing to go by what he says, but seeing where his thinking is?

[JumpyTheFrog]

So you're trying to punish him into making better choices?

Not very likely...sorry. He either is or is not the kind of child who would learn to avoid punishment. Sounds like not.

 

<snip>

 

ALLOW natural consequences and use logical ones. If you choose to give examples, we can share some ideas.

 

<snip>

 

Restitution - He needs to make up for his mistakes AND a little extra.

 

 

I agree that punishment doesn't seem to work well on him. We just don't know what else to do. I really like the idea of natural and logical consequences, but we often can't find a way to apply them to various situations.

 

For example, last night he didn't like his dinner much, so we put it away and told him no food until breakfast. The logical consequence was that he went to bed hungry. But then this morning he snuck downstairs and got himself food, when he knows he isn't allowed to eat before breakfast. (In the past we have tried leaving him breakfast in the fridge but then he started sneaking things like ice cream and leaving the kitchen such a mess that we stopped. Now he has to wait until I serve breakfast.)

 

Since he snuck food, DH told him he couldn't eat anything else until lunch (that the food he snuck counted as his breakfast). When I wouldn't serve him breakfast, he started yelling at me, refusing to obey about going upstairs, and turning chairs over. He also stuck his tongue out and blew raspberries at me several times in any angry manner.

 

What would a logical consequence of something like this be?

 

What should restitution look like for disobedience and yelling at parents? If either of our boys calls the other a name, they have to apologize and do something nice for the other. I am tired of being yelled at, being told "I don't care" about various things, and putting up with his disrespectful, bratty, teenager like attitude.

[JumpyTheFrog]

I think the first thing is that you have to be sure you're using the word you mean to use. "Consequences" are just that--the logical result of a particular behavior or decision. Really, if you're having to invent consequences, it means that you're actually punishing a particular behavior or decision but for whatever reason not wanting to call it punishment.

 

 

You're right, people do usually mean "punishment."

 

I don't think punishment works with Tigger. I just don't know how to apply logical consequences to many situations.

[JumpyTheFrog]

Is he old enough to ask him what he thinks the consequences should be? Not committing to go by what he says, but seeing where his thinking is?

 

 

I think he would just say "I don't know." He often acts like he never yelled at me or threw a fit. I guess he doesn't recognize how obnoxious his behavior often is.

[Trillian]

Personally, I think the logical consequence for not liking your dinner is to politely ask to get something else himself. You and he should work out ahead of time what would be appropriate dinners that he is capable of making (PB&J, soup he can heat up, cold cereal, whatever it would be at your house). You had a domino series that could have been cut off at the beginning IMO. My DS's behavior always cascades if he is hungry, so in this house that would have been setting him up to fail. It took a lot of practicing for him to go from "I don't like this," to "May I please get myself something else?"

 

A lot of people would disagree with me, so feel free to disregard.

[fairfarmhand]

He doesn't like supper. He can politely ask for an alternative or eat it anyway. If he's rude he may leave the table and eat alone after everyone else is away from the table. Or you can simply say. "Okay. I guess you're just not that hungry. I'll wrap this up for later so that you can eat it when you get hungry."

 

He was probably starving this morning. I really have a hard time blaming a 7 yo who has probably not had anything to eat since 3 pm yesterday for sneaking food.

 

Parenting is SO hard.

 

I think that if I knew my kid was going to bed hungry, I would either get up early enough so that he could have an early breakfast or tell him in the morning what he could have if he woke before me. It's so hard to think these things through when you're in the middle of it.

[Pamela H in Texas]

Hoppy, I hope you can take this the way I mean it. Think that I'm talking very softly with a slow, gentle cadence, okay?

 

What was the purpose of the first consequence - didn't like food so doesn't get anything more til breakfast?

 

I can see a few circumstances where "won't eat = wait til next meal." That isn't what I read though. I am a little more sensitive to food issues considering my secondary trauma related to food via my kids. However, even without that, it seems that one wouldn't get punished for not liking the food. Honestly, if *I* hadn't liked supper last night, I would have thrown something else together, even if it was just some jerky and some cheese or a grapefruit, ya know?

 

Now, I realize that he broke rules and blah blah blah; but the one of the first steps in disciplining is looking at where WE could have done things differently. We don't want to create more situations than necessary, escalate situations, etc, right? It just doesn't promote peace. Also, we want to treat our children like WE want to be treated. There are SO many nights I don't eat the same thing my kids do simply because I won't eat X or Y, don't feel like it, ate at 4:30, whatever. We want to teach our KIDS to treat other people kindly also. When the tables are turned and you are in a childish state when much older, do you want the 50some year old version of him saying, "fine, then you won't get anything til breakfast" or punishing you for getting up for a snack at 6am?

 

I say these things as a parent who holds my kids to ridiculous standards sometimes. For example, if my son stomped off and slammed a door before supper because someone hurt his feelings, it'd be the end of his world. Seriously. I would not put up with that. But I remember a situation a few months ago when I got my feelings hurt, slammed the door, got into bed and cried. No one punished me for doing so. After a few minutes, hubby came in and wanted to know what was up with me for acting so. I cried something about how the kids.....well, it doesn't matter the specifics... Fact is that sometimes people get upset and do things they shouldn't. And if the door frame broke? I would have to pay for it. If it broke when my ds slammed it, he'd be doing some hefty chores to pay for it. But regardless, people get upset and express it inappropriately.

 

And that goes for your son regarding the next set of poor choices also. He was hungry and decided he needed food more than he needed your approval. He was probably right. Fact is that you will love him today regardless and his tummy probably hurt. Also, with the breakfast thing? He remembered the hurting tummy and didn't want that to happen again. Maybe if you saw how serious he was, you'd give in. Please give in mom! He expressed it inappropriately, and I would address that, but....but did you hear his fear? Again, it was safer to disappoint you than his tummy.

 

Behavior typically is a way of meeting an important need and/or expressing fear. Sometimes, Tigger just needs you to empathize (honestly) or to help him meet his need (perceived or real).

 

ETA: I want to also say that regulation begets regulation while dysregulation begets dysregulation. This goes for both of you. The difference, of course, is that you are the adult; so you can choose to fix the situation or just not let it escalate. Honestly, I do a lot more fixing than doing it well the first time, but it takes time. In things that happen on a dime (like this morning), I may not do as well with. With things like what happened at supper, it is a slower progression so I have time to think. As you start fixing things and preventing them, you'll find that you feel better. If you can empathize and try to see where he is coming from and work WITH him in a situation, you'll also feel better. As you feel better and set him up for success by what you implement, you'll see that he also does better. It just is a process and will take practice and time.

[violamama]

Hunger in our seven year old makes him hangry. If this were my kid in your scenario, he would have whined, tried yelling a little, and collapsed in a puddle of tears and anger.

 

Could you have some things he can get for himself if he's up before you? Fruit that isn't in the fridge? It seems to me that eating ice cream and leaving a mess are grounds for doing extra work, missing out on other treats, and paying for the ice cream. But then removing any responsibility/freedom just teaches him to be less mature, not more.

 

Was the raspberry blowing a common occurrence or due to hunger/frustration?

 

I would recommend the love and logic book for teachers, and agree with giving him more responsibility, not less.

 

Sorry, it's no fun to be in that spot with your kids. Get lots of time to recharge when you can grab it. Hugs!

[Dandelion]

I have a child with whom consequences (outside of natural consequences) don't work. *Parent-derived* consequences are really punishment, and many kids do not respond well to something that feels like punishment. They resist it and up the ante - leading to a vicious cycle where the parent piles on more and more punishment, while the child becomes resentful but continues with whatever behavior the consequences were supposed to curtail. It's a lose-lose situation.

I would shift the focus away from "what consequences do we need?" to "what is the problem and how can we solve it?". Sit down with your DS and define the problem together (e.g. the food issue) and then brainstorm with him how to solve that problem in a way that works for everyone involved. Let him come up with some ideas first and try to work with his ideas as much as possible. That will give him ownership of the solution. Agree together on what will happen if people don't stick to the plan as agreed (this should apply to both you/your DH as well as your DS). Set a time for when you will get together again to talk about how the new approach is working, so your DS has a check-in to look forward to. Get your DH on board as well. And then implement the plan.

It takes a bit more time upfront but IME the odds of success are much better with this type of approach. Because it creates a shift where you and your DS working together, instead of working against each other.

[JumpyTheFrog]

Personally, I think the logical consequence for not liking your dinner is to politely ask to get something else himself.

 

Let me clarify. He likes all the food I made. He just didn't feel like eating it. He likes nearly everything I make, but sometimes refuses to eat it because it isn't what he wants. Growing up, my mom catered to my picky brother by regularly making him alternate meals and DH and I think it was a mistake. I think he was probably malnourished and protein deficient.

 

 

...but some of the stuff you made issues about I would not have with my 7 year old.

 

Can you be more specific?

 

Was the raspberry blowing a common occurrence or due to hunger/frustration?

 

I would recommend the love and logic book for teachers, and agree with giving him more responsibility, not less.

 

The raspberry is something that has been a small problem. It had been better.

 

I have a child with whom consequences (outside of natural consequences) don't work. *Parent-derived* consequences are really punishment, and many kids do not respond well to something that feels like punishment. They resist it and up the ante - leading to a vicious cycle where the parent piles on more and more punishment, while the child becomes resentful but continues with whatever behavior the consequences were supposed to curtail. It's a lose-lose situation.

 

I think that might be what is going on. It is a vicious cycle. Tigger escalates things, especially with DH. DH also often escalates the situation when he is dealing with Tigger. I try not to but am not consistently successful.

 

Tigger rarely gives any of his instructors trouble. He is usually well behaved in public or around other people. I think he is too embarrassed to throw a full fit in front of our friends or families. The grandparents and one friend have seen some half-hearted fits (for him) but never the big ones.

[JumpyTheFrog]

I will talk to DH about going back to leaving Tigger's breakfast out for him. If he leaves a big mess or sneaks other foods, then what should we do about it? If we try this, we should tell Tigger ahead of time what will happen if he doesn't follow the rules about eating breakfast before we get up.

[fairfarmhand]

I will talk to DH about going back to leaving Tigger's breakfast out for him. If he leaves a big mess or sneaks other foods, then what should we do about it? If we try this, we should tell Tigger ahead of time what will happen if he doesn't follow the rules about eating breakfast before we get up.

 

Messes, he cleans up himself to your satisfaction. "ooops fellow, you missed some crumbs there. Now get the broom and sweep all the crumbs.....don't miss that corner. Now wash off your plate "etc.

 

Forbidden snacks... he gets to eat saltine crackers or a piece of bread when the rest of the family is eating ice cream or other "goodies."

[Joker]

Is he having any food between dinner and breakfast? My dds can't go that long between meals and have a snack (protein) before bed. Maybe he's having trouble with the messes and such in the morning because he's really hungry.

 

When my dds don't want what is served for dinner, regardless if they like it, they make a pb&j or make themselves some eggs. They can't choose to replace dinner with junk but sometimes I don't even want what's for dinner and eat eggs instead.

[MomatHWTK]

Hmm.. logical consequences, parents should make sure their children are well fed and should either get up early or have appropriate measures in place to meet the child's needs at his maturity level while they sleep. He's seven and I'm sorry but it just seems like you have this set of long established rules in your mind and are determined that this child will conform. If you continue with the consequences, he may conform, but only until he gets his driver's license or turns 18 then it's all over.

 

 

If my parents sent me to bed hungry all night, I would interpret that to mean that forcing me to conform to their standards was a higher priority in their life than I was and I would respond to them accordingy as I matured. This particular child has demonstrated that he is unhappy being alone and awake early and that he needs more supervision than he is getting. He sounds to me as if he does have some sensory issues and probably really does have difficulty with impulse control- again based on the morning behaviors and what you've said about logical and other consequences not working. Is he really smart too? Little kids with big brain power Sometimes don't have the maturity to match their wit.

 

You may eventually wear down the corners enough to get this little square peg into the round hole you had planned but it won't be easy and I don't know that he will appreciate. (For the record, I was probably a trapazoid peg.)

[Lily_Grace]

I agree that punishment doesn't seem to work well on him. We just don't know what else to do. I really like the idea of natural and logical consequences, but we often can't find a way to apply them to various situations.

 

For example, last night he didn't like his dinner much, so we put it away and told him no food until breakfast. The logical consequence was that he went to bed hungry. But then this morning he snuck downstairs and got himself food, when he knows he isn't allowed to eat before breakfast. (In the past we have tried leaving him breakfast in the fridge but then he started sneaking things like ice cream and leaving the kitchen such a mess that we stopped. Now he has to wait until I serve breakfast.)

 

Since he snuck food, DH told him he couldn't eat anything else until lunch (that the food he snuck counted as his breakfast). When I wouldn't serve him breakfast, he started yelling at me, refusing to obey about going upstairs, and turning chairs over. He also stuck his tongue out and blew raspberries at me several times in any angry manner.

 

What would a logical consequence of something like this be?

 

What should restitution look like for disobedience and yelling at parents? If either of our boys calls the other a name, they have to apologize and do something nice for the other. I am tired of being yelled at, being told "I don't care" about various things, and putting up with his disrespectful, bratty, teenager like attitude.

 

You set him up for failure. No punishment needed.

 

 

In our house, it would have gone like this:

-dinner is put in the fridge, to be reheated later if wanted, ASSUMING that it's something he likes and eats on a regular basis. If not, had he tried each component, the equivalent of a sandwich would be given. I ask that a child attempts to eat - it takes up to 20 times to know if we like it or not, and I know that when I start getting sick food tastes off to me. Meals are tasted to honor the cook.

 

-in the morning, breakfast would be served at the normal time, followed by snack.

 

 

You set your child up. You made him fail at your expectations. You rigged the morning so that he was hungrier than usual and then again denied food because he ate. So not cool. The "logical" punishment was an imposed one, not a true sense of logic.

 

Return to normal and get back to routine.

 

I try to keep in mind a few things when a consequence is meted out, especially what is gained from this? If there is no benefit, the consequence will not work.

[Dandelion]

Another thing that might help is to make it as easy as possible for your DS to act in the way you want him to. Try to think through where the problem spots usually are and then build in safeguards ahead of time to prevent those issues. Being proactive in this way cuts down on the need to be excessively reactive, which creates a more positive atmosphere, reduces the *food angst* that's currently happening, etc. In effect, you're creating a positive cycle to replace the negative cycle you're currently in.

 

For example:

- Problem: Tigger sometimes helps himself to something he's not supposed to eat instead of the breakfast we've left out for him. How do we make it easy for Tigger to make the right choice? Possible solution: Leave Tigger's breakfast in his room where he'll see it first thing when he wakes up, so he won't even go into the kitchen. Make breakfast something that doesn't have to be refrigerated or warmed up. Or put a little ice box in his room to keep the food in overnight.

- Problem: Tigger makes a mess when he gets his breakfast. How do we make it easy for Tigger not to do this? Possible solution: Switch to non-messy breakfast foods or give Tigger his own special container of clean-up wipes that are just for him to use (making it more fun to clean up and providing a visual reminder that he's supposed to clean up when he sees that container on the counter).

[Trillian]

I will talk to DH about going back to leaving Tigger's breakfast out for him. If he leaves a big mess or sneaks other foods, then what should we do about it? If we try this, we should tell Tigger ahead of time what will happen if he doesn't follow the rules about eating breakfast before we get up.

 

 

Plan for success, but I don't know what that would look like in your house.

 

When DS was that age, I filled him a snack basket each day. The first day, I think he ate all the snacks at once. He learned to space them out.

 

I tend to make one food on the weekend - pancakes, breakfast cookies, whatever - to freeze and have for the rest of the week. DS knows those are the breakfast foods he can re-heat and eat. Some mornings I do get up and make eggs, but there's always something in the freezer easy and not too messy.

 

I can hear your frustration and I get it, DS is strong willed as well. But if you can find a way not to make it rule based, but instead, a routine, you can teach him more independence without fighting (ultimately what you both want - and I won't promise no fighting - if anyone can promise that, I'm all ears ;) ).

 

I don't know if you've read Hold on to Your Kids; I recommend it. I was strong willed as a child as well. My mom told me you cannot control what goes into or comes out of your child's mouth - you just can't if they want the control, because they are in control of their bodies. You have to hold their hearts. Hugs.

[Pamela H in Texas]

Hoppy, why? There has to be a reason WHY he refused to eat food that was put in front of him when he likes the food fine.

That is what needs to be addressed.

 

Second, food that was refused at supper could have been offered for "dessert." We don't do dessert nightly (or even weekly), but whatever time wouldn't interfere with the nighttime routine would have been given as a last option just so he didn't go to bed hungry. A specific option for "if you wake up hungry" could also be given (though I personally choose to be up and available for my children in the morning as they can't be trusted behaviorally. With my first kids, I could have let them fix breakfast for themselves though.).

 

Okay, back to this WHY thing. There are a few reasons kids have behaviors. If we can figure them out in each circumstance, we can curtail the behaviors considerably (not completely because realistically, they and we are imperfect).

 

My first guess would simply be control. In Love and Logic Magic, the one for early childhood, they describe control as a bank. We give kids control and do it in an exaggerated manner so they *see* we are giving them control. Honestly, this is one of the most fun things I've done with my "new" kiddos. I really should do it even more. "Do you want to get the clothes from the bathroom or the ones from the hallway?" "Do you want scrambles or omelets?" "do you want tomatoes?" "Do you want spinach?" "Do you want rice cheese or goat cheese?" "do you want to sit in your seat or Daddy's seat?" "Do you want one napkin or two?" "should I put your plate on the table or on your head?" OF course, the list goes on and on and on. Of course, you probably can't go over the top all the time; but you can a time or two per day and get in the habit of giving a lot more choices along the way. Like I said, it is a bank. So you are depositing a LOT this way. That way, it doesn't "smart" when you must make a withdrawl. Think about it, is it easier to pay a $40 bill when you have $50 in the bank, $500 in the bank, or $5000 in the bank?

 

Anyway, so you might look into other mistaken goals of behavior also.

 

I have to say that one thing I really learned with fostering (supposedly this is common knowledge; but it just wasn't my experience) is the whole limits of what parents can control. It includes that you can't *really* control what goes in or what comes out. You can TRY to and some kids may be coerced; but a truly determined child, especially if they have their own reasoning, simply isn't going to go with your plan (and in fact, that you have a plan can cause issue). You really don't want to cause food issues by being controlling. I understand your reasoning for not going all the way the other way like your family did; but you really have to aim for balance rather than reactively drawing a line in the sand. See, even we adults tend to behave because of some fear sometimes :)

[fairfarmhand]

I don't think he refused his supper (from what I am reading of her posts) It is just that he didn't like it...maybe he was complaining about it?

[Flowing Brook]

I will talk to DH about going back to leaving Tigger's breakfast out for him. If he leaves a big mess or sneaks other foods, then what should we do about it? If we try this, we should tell Tigger ahead of time what will happen if he doesn't follow the rules about eating breakfast before we get up.

 

 

 

 

Honestly I think 7 is too young to be having breakfast by himself. I also think it is asking too much for a 7 yo to not leave a big mess. I think he is old enough to clean up his mess but I think only with someone there helping or reminding him.

 

If my son did not feel like eating at supper I would leave him a plate and let him eat when hungry. I would not want him to make a habit out of it but if it were just once in a while I would be fine with it.

[bolt.]

If your child is too immature to eat unsupervised in the morning, the answer isn't "child waits to eat until adults are well rested" the answer is "adults feed and supervise child whether its a nice time for them or not"... That's parenting 101: children need both feeding and supervision. Until when? Until they don't need it any more.

 

If you'd rather sleep in, then that's "your" mess not "his" mess. Sleep happily and clean up after him cheerfully, or get up and help him eat tidily. You can't just wish him more mature and be bothered when he doesn't manage to hit your targets.

 

(And he didn't need any 'consiquence' for bring a bit 'off his feed' one supper. It's perfectly normal for people to occasionally hit a meal and just not feel like eating. It didn't need to be any kind of struggle at all. Him: "Mom, I don't want supper." You, "OK, it's here for you if you get hungry. You will also probably feel hungry later of extra hungry for breakfast. I hope you won't be uncomfortable with your choice. Do you want to make a plan for that?")

[RoundAbout]

Not wanting dinner happens here and as long as DS is respectful it is not an issue.

 

"I don't care for this mom, can I have something else?"

 

"I'm not hungry right now, can I be excused?"

 

My son is not naturally polite, these phrases have just been drilled since toddlerhood.

 

Btw, the "something else" is usually just a component of what we are having like chicken without the sauce or plain rice so I'm not making something separate or setting him up to request pbj every night.

[LittleIzumi]

My 7-year-old would be so starving with no dinner, snack, breakfast, or morning snack that I can't even imagine how she would function/stand up, much less behave nicely. *I* would be so starving with no dinner, snack, breakfast, or morning snack that I would be completely unreasonable. Here if you don't like dinner (after you have eaten as many bites as you are old) then you can make yourself something, because I only make one dinner. If I didn't like something I cooked, I'd make something else, after all. I wouldn't starve them (missing two meals in a row at age 7 would produce a starving feeling) or use food as a control. You can leave a piece of fruit or something in his room if he needs morning food, and he has to clean it up before the fun stuff of the day starts.