I would like to help dd get a mathematics scholarship, advice please :)

[Ann.without.an.e]

DD will be in 9th grade in the fall. She is an extremely gifted mathematician AND she loves math. She would love to get a mathematics scholarship. She went to a workshop at UNC Chapel Hill for girl mathematicians and she loved it :)

 

I am new to this....this will be my first high school student and I have always home schooled. I am nervous and completely scared that by keeping her home I will ruin her chances of doing what she loves. Can anyone clue me in...what should I be doing to help dd with this?

 

No information is too juvenile, I know nothing. I would like for her to take the SAT early to see how she does. Can she take it in 9th grade? How do I go about that?

 

Thanks :)

[regentrude]

She can take the SAT whenever she wants. You go to the college board website and register online; tests are administered at the public high school.

 

What are you using for math? For a mathematically gifted student, nothing beats AoPS.

If she is specifically aiming at math scholarships, I think she should participate in math competitions to demonstrate her interest and get some tangible achievement beyond good course grades

[snowbeltmom]

If she is specifically aiming at math scholarships, I think she should participate in math competitions to demonstrate her interest and get some tangible achievement beyond good course grades

 

:iagree:

 

If you search the archives under "AMC" you should find some threads with Kathy in Richmond's sage advice. The American Math Competitions take place in February and are the first step on the road to qualifying for the International Math Olympiad. (There is another path as well, but I am not familiar with it.)

[wapiti]

Rusczyk's 2009 talk at The Math Prize for Girls discusses a perspective as well as some resources that might prove useful http://mathprize.atfoundation.org/archive/2009/Rusczyk_Problem_Solving_Presentation_at_Math_Prize_for_Girls_2009.pdf

[Ann.without.an.e]

Thanks ya'll, great thoughts. Can anyone give me a run down on the difference between AoPS and Saxon? :)

[regentrude]

Thanks ya'll, great thoughts. Can anyone give me a run down on the difference between AoPS and Saxon? :)

 

 

Day and Night.

 

AoPS:

discovery based; student is presented with problems to solve and encouraged to discover concept before any teaching occurs. Problems are chosen with a lot of thought to guide student to the discovery.

The author clearly loves and is excited about math, and that joy radiates from every page.

Exercises are all slightly different so that the student has to think how the concept applies; no drill&kill.

review is built in because one topic bases on previous ones; no explicit review.

Goes beyond scope of corresponding traditional program. Proves every relationship, conceptually thorough.

Mastery based; one topic is discussed in a chapter rather exhaustively; then move on to next related topic.

 

Saxon:

incremental spiral. Topic is introduced and next lesson is on something entirely unrelated until topic is revisited a few days or weeks later.

Direct instruction: lesson is taught, then student works problems.

Does not feel as if the authors had fun writing the book or are in any way excited about math.

Lots and lots of explicit review and drill exercises.

Not all relationships are proven; some handwaving arguments are flawed.

 

Some students thrive with Saxon. Some hate it.

For a mathematically gifted student who loves to think about math and wants to do more math than necessary for an average credit, I would choose AoPS.

(For a weak student, AoPS would be disastrous.)

 

 

ETA: I do not remember which person on these boards wrote it, but comparing a traditional math curriculum with AoPS, this person noted:

"The xyz program gives you the nuts and bolts. AoPS gives you the nuts and bolts and then has you build the Taj Mahal with them."

[snowbeltmom]

Thanks ya'll, great thoughts. Can anyone give me a run down on the difference between AoPS and Saxon? :)

 

 

AoPS is a very popular topic on these boards. If you do a search, you will be able to read about AoPS all day long. :D

 

Saxon and AoPS are very different, imo.

 

I used Saxon with my kids when we first started homeschooling. My kids absolutely hated Saxon and complained about doing the same problem over and over again, just with different numbers. We have been using AoPS for five years now, and my kids never complain about doing the same problem twice. ;)

[Jen in NY]

Directly from the AoPS Website:

Is math class too easy for you? Are you looking for a greater challenge?

 

You've come to the right place!

 

• Read Books specifically designed for high-performing math students.
  
• Take Online Classes with other amazing students and outstanding instructors.
  
• Join our thriving Online Community of problem solvers from around the world.
  
• Learn with Alcumus, our free online learning system.
  
• Watch Videos aligned to our books and courses, and for MATHCOUNTS and the AMC.
  
• Play For the Win!, an online competition modeled after the MATHCOUNTS Countdown Round.
  

 

 

From Me:

I can't really speak to how AoPS and Saxon differ, because my daughter (who had previously enjoyed Singapore Math well enough) wanted to cry daily at the sight of Saxon 1/2, so we ditched after completing 80% of it. From the moment she started in Number Theory at AoPS in 8th grade, she has enjoyed math again, done very well on her standardized tests, and is sorry she will have to say goodbye to AoPS in June when her last class wraps up and she gets ready to leave for college.

They present math in a way that lets you puzzle through it and really understand the concepts.... it is not plug and play by any means. We all love it. (As I am sure people are sick of me saying.) :) There is a huge math community there of which even the most motivated and curious student could never completely plumb the depths.

I highly recommend it!

[Jen in NY]

I would like for her to take the SAT early to see how she does. Can she take it in 9th grade? How do I go about that?

 

 

Just wanted to throw this out there...

 

I would NOT have your daughter take the SAT until you are both sure that she has covered the material that's on it. I would hate for your dd, who is completely charged up and excited by math right now (yay!) to take the SAT and be surprised by a low score just because she hasn't gotten to some topics. (I think it heads up into Alg II territory, and also includes some probability.) Unless there is some reason for her to take it, like getting into a program that requires SAT scores, I wouldn't worry about making it official until she's covered everything.

 

*Some* people in my house are *very* aware and self-concious about *scores.* Ahem. Sometimes it has been a positive... sometimes not so much.

 

Of course, your dd may be completely prepared already, for all I know. Or she may be the kind of kid that can see that a percentile rating is how you do compared to your age-mates and be really happy with that, as she should be! :)

 

anyway..... ymmv.... just my 2 cents... and all of those various disclaimers.....

[Sebastian (a lady)]

DD will be in 9th grade in the fall. She is an extremely gifted mathematician AND she loves math. She would love to get a mathematics scholarship. She went to a workshop at UNC Chapel Hill for girl mathematicians and she loved it :)

 

I am new to this....this will be my first high school student and I have always home schooled. I am nervous and completely scared that by keeping her home I will ruin her chances of doing what she loves. Can anyone clue me in...what should I be doing to help dd with this?

 

No information is too juvenile, I know nothing. I would like for her to take the SAT early to see how she does. Can she take it in 9th grade? How do I go about that?

 

Thanks :)

 

She could register for Johns Hopkins CTY or Duke Talent search and take the SAT before 9th grade. Then if she doesn't like the score she can let it be archived. You have to ask to keep SAT scores taken before 9th grade.

Or she could take the PSAT as a freshman. That would give her a taste of the test without going into her forever SAT score record.

[kiana]

You could also get one of the SAT practice books with test scores on them and have her take it under test conditions, then score it yourself using the conversion chart in the book, if your only concern is to see how she would score.

 

I would definitely look into doing math competitions. I'd also look into AOPS -- either switching to the curriculum or supplementing with the problem-solving books.

[Julie in MN]

If you search the archives under "AMC" you should find some threads with Kathy in Richmond's sage advice. The American Math Competitions take place in February and are the first step on the road to qualifying for the International Math Olympiad. (There is another path as well, but I am not familiar with it.)

I agree that math competitions are a good way for a math student to stand out. Anything that is nationally recognized and above-and-beyond typical high school fare. For example, my oldest son participated in a special program through our University of Minnesota, and even though it was just for a year in 8th grade, and just a state program, it made him stand out a bit even when he was applying to colleges in Colorado. My youngest son has done some of the math competitions, Math Counts and AMC. Mathy folks recognize those.

 

Otherwise, just solid math, every year, and the mathy degrees in my family may not have had huge scholarships but have led to lifelong job choices.

Julie

[8filltheheart]

In addition to what others have recommended, I would also suggest researching math summer camps. These camps are competitive for admission, but it is worth the effort of applying bc the accepted students are all passionate about math and are surrounded by gifted mathematicians who expose them to challenging, non-typical math topics.

 

This link has a comprehensive list of camps:

http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/Wiki/index.php/Mathematics_summer_program

 

The deadline may have passed or be quickly approaching for many of the programs.

 

As far as scholarships, keep in mind that the level of competition for those scholarships is going to vary by institution. Top schools are more likely to have students that are in the top 1% of all math students competing for them (having completed all high school math topics prior to or by 9th grade would not be at all unusual.) These schools are also going to be ones that want AMC scores submitted with a general college application vs. just for a scholarship application, etc. In the world of gifted math students, it is mind-blowing the level of achievement some of these kids have accomplished. Getting involved with math circles, math clubs, and summer camps are a great way to learn about the mental spheres of math geeks!! ;)

[Jane in NC]

NC State used to have a summer camp for high school girls interested in STEM subjects. You might want to see if this is still around.

[Candid]

DD will be in 9th grade in the fall. She is an extremely gifted mathematician AND she loves math. She would love to get a mathematics scholarship. She went to a workshop at UNC Chapel Hill for girl mathematicians and she loved it :)

 

I'd try to contact whoever worked with her at UNC. They have to know this or can help. If you are near by, you never know what might happen, she might be able to study and work with a professor directly during high school.

[daijobu]

Agree with all the good advice above. Would you mind sharing info about the program at UNC Chapel Hill that your dd attended?

[MBM]

Regarding math competitions, if your daughter likes meaty problems, she might want to participate in the USAMTS (USA Math Talent Search) sponsored by AoPS and NSA. If she makes a certain total score on them (there were three sets of problems this year), she can advance to the AIME, but she might as well take the AMC, too. This site will have more info as well as past years' problems:

 

http://www.usamts.org

 

Here is the link to the SMART scholarship site as well. If she would like to try for something like this, she'd have to spend a few years working for the government.

 

http://smart.asee.org

 

Start to research universities that have strong math departments. Some offer math programs with co-ops which can be a great way to pay for some of school and get experience working in a profession. My son is a sophomore in high school, and although he loves pure math, he is also considering Northwestern U's MMSS program. He's not sure whether he wants to study pure or applied math at this point.

 

Your daughter might also like a math summer camp. Not sure if you already know about them, but I'll list a few:

 

Ross and PROMYS: number theory

Canada/USA Math Camp and Hampshire Summer Studies in Mathematics: a smorgasbord of math topics

SUMAC, Idea Math, Math Zoom, Awesome Math, Texas Math Works: I think a variety of math topics

 

Maybe Kathy in Richmond will see this post and pop in to give you some advice. You could do some searches on this forum using her name to get and even print out her advice. It's excellent and would be very helpful.

 

Good luck to your daughter!

[Wildiris]

FWIW a path~ DD in 10th grade loves math too, but she is only in Algebra 2 this year. Last spring DD took the ACT and did fairly well, but not good enough to land a seat in Stanford's online high school. She took the SAT this past Dec. to qualify for CTY Number theory class. She made it in to the class on a combined score of math a critical reading. Math alone would not have qualified her. Still her SAT scores are great--above 2000. She took the AMC 10 last week and didn't do too well. She said she didn't know enough calculus yet to do well. DD wants to get into the The Math Prize for Girls, but one needs to qualify through the AMC test. Qualifying for AIME would be a terrific bounus. Maybe next year. DD claims there are few universities that have strong math departments as compared to the number of universities that have strong science or the humanities departments.

 

Advice: Plot a course of action paying attention to application deadlines. Many deadlines are in the late fall early winter for summer programs. Link up with test sites for the AMC early. Finding schools willing to add a homeschooler to their mix can be a challenge. Consider taking the ACT this spring. I would add The Art of Problem Solving classes if you can afford them. ADDING LINK TO FREE AoPS ALCUMUS

[snowbeltmom]

She took the AMC 10 last week and didn't do too well. She said she didn't know enough calculus yet to do well.

 

The AMC problems are much more difficult than those found on the SAT or ACT, but calculus is not tested on the AMC 10 or AMC 12.

[8filltheheart]

FWIW a path~ DD in 10th grade loves math too, but she is only in Algebra 2 this year. Last spring DD took the ACT and did fairly well, but not good enough to land a seat in Stanford's online high school. She took the SAT this past Dec. to qualify for CTY Number theory class. She made it in to the class on a combined score of math a critical reading. Math alone would not have qualified her. Still her SAT scores are great--above 2000. She took the AMC 10 last week and didn't do too well. She said she didn't know enough calculus yet to do well. DD wants to get into the The Math Prize for Girls, but one needs to qualify through the AMC test. Qualifying for AIME would be a terrific bounus. Maybe next year. DD claims there are few universities that have strong math departments as compared to the number of universities that have strong science or the humanities departments.

 

Advice: Plot a course of action paying attention to application deadlines. Many deadlines are in the late fall early winter for summer programs. Link up with test sites for the AMC early. Finding schools willing to add a homeschooler to their mix can be a challenge. Consider taking the ACT this spring. I would add The Art of Problem Solving classes if you can afford them. ADDING LINK TO FREE AoPS ALCUMUS

 

 

Qualifying for Math Prize for Girls requires an AMC score that is the equivalent of qualifying for the AIME. I haven't looked at this stuff in a couple of yrs, but I think it is something like only the top 2.5 or 5% of all AMC takers qualify for the AIME. I would recommend visiting the AIME website for info on qualifying for the test.

[Wildiris]

The AMC problems are much more difficult than those found on the SAT or ACT, but calculus is not tested on the AMC 10 or AMC 12.

 

 

For some reason this is what she thought she came across when taking the test. I don't know. Yes, those problems were hard. She said a lot of kids were huffing and puffing over the difficulty of the problems last week.

 

There is next year to try again. At least she will know what to expect and how to prepare.

[jhschool]

Regarding math competitions, if your daughter likes meaty problems, she might want to participate in the USAMTS (USA Math Talent Search) sponsored by AoPS and NSA. If she makes a certain total score on them (there were three sets of problems this year), she can advance to the AIME, but she might as well take the AMC, too. This site will have more info as well as past years' problems:

 

http://www.usamts.org

 

Here is the link to the SMART scholarship site as well. If she would like to try for something like this, she'd have to spend a few years working for the government.

 

http://smart.asee.org

 

Start to research universities that have strong math departments. Some offer math programs with co-ops which can be a great way to pay for some of school and get experience working in a profession. My son is a sophomore in high school, and although he loves pure math, he is also considering Northwestern U's MMSS program. He's not sure whether he wants to study pure or applied math at this point.

 

Your daughter might also like a math summer camp. Not sure if you already know about them, but I'll list a few:

 

Ross and PROMYS: number theory

Canada/USA Math Camp and Hampshire Summer Studies in Mathematics: a smorgasbord of math topics

SUMAC, Idea Math, Math Zoom, Awesome Math, Texas Math Works: I think a variety of math topics

 

Maybe Kathy in Richmond will see this post and pop in to give you some advice. You could do some searches on this forum using her name to get and even print out her advice. It's excellent and would be very helpful.

 

Good luck to your daughter!

 

 

Thank you for these links!!! I knew about some of these but not all!!!

 

Do you have personal experience with the camps? Is there one that you

particularly recommend (in terms of personal experiences).

[8filltheheart]

 

 

Thank you for these links!!! I knew about some of these but not all!!!

 

Do you have personal experience with the camps? Is there one that you

particularly recommend (in terms of personal experiences).

 

 

Not MBM, but our ds went to Math Zoom and loved every minute of it. I know that Kathy in Richmond's kids both attended Math Camp and have nothing but positive things to say about it.

[MBM]

Thank you for these links!!! I knew about some of these but not all!!!

 

Do you have personal experience with the camps? Is there one that you

particularly recommend (in terms of personal experiences).

 

 

My son attended Idea Math and Hampshire and loved both of them. Great kids, great teachers and a lot of fun in their free time.

 

Zuming Feng runs Idea Math. He is the math coach and teacher at Philips Exeter. A number of the kids there will probably go to the IMO. If I lived nearby, I would try to get my kid in just to study with Dr. Feng. He has coached the US team for a number of years and still does (I think). At Idea Math, he works with the kids who make the upper level but will pop into other classes as well. He's a neat guy.

 

Hampshire (HCSSiM) is run by David Kelly and friends. I believe it might be the oldest summer studies -- don't call it a camp! When my son went, the group became one big happy family -- everyone was friends with everyone. The hardest part was leaving. My son broke down crying when he had to leave to go home. This is not unusual for kids, I hear. He is still very good friends with the kids he met there and one of the teachers, whom he sees every other week at a math circle. Anyway, Hampshire offers a hodge-podge of topics, guest lectures, hiking, a few concert trips and at lease one excursion to Boston.

 

Two of son's friends went to Ross last year which is all about number theory and involves attending lectures and then doing problems. It tends to be pretty serious from what I understand. I would prefer my son go there with a friend if he were to get in. He might try next summer.

 

This year my son is trying for Math Camp. They offer a variety of classes that students can choose as well as time off for a lot of fun.

 

There are a number of summer programs available. AoPS has listed most of them. I think for a kid who likes math, almost any would be a good experience.

 

HTH! :)

[lisabees]

If you're close to a college that offers SPLASH or SPARK, that may provide another (inexpensive) opportunity to meet like-minded souls.