Participating in extracurricular activities for the "right" reasons

[Grantmom]

My son and a friend participated in an extracurricular activity last year. This year, the friend did not participate, but my son did. It is not a huge time commitment, nothing that even meets weekly, just a small thing. Recently, the friend decided to start participating again, and my son said it was because the friend said he needed to do another extracurricular activity for high school.

 

So this made me start thinking about the whole sea of college prep, and wanting to make sure that I am informing and guiding him well so that he is doing the things that will put him in a good place for meeting his goals and having opportunities in college attendance. But at the same time, I don't want him to adopt the above attitude, one of just, oh I'm going to sign up for this or that so I can put it on a list of things I've done. Up until now, everything he has done has been driven by interest, and he has had a wide and varied exposure to different activities in what I feel has been well-rounded and balanced.

 

What do you guys think? Is it okay to sometimes say, "well, you know this or that would look good on a college application," or, "this or that would show a good balance of activities" and encourage the "development of the resume"? Or is it better to let them continue to pursue their interests, and the things they are passionate about will place them exactly where they need to be? Would love to hear others' opinions, as I know I have idealistic leanings! ;)

[Arcadia]

In all the job interviews (including internship and temp jobs) I had attended as well as be in the panel, one question posed was how did the extracurricular activity benefited the job candidate. The interviewer(s) wanted to see whether the person is an active participant or sleeping member.

It is good if someone is really well-rounded but falls flat if it is jack of all trades and master of none.

However I would encourage anybody to attend student conferences and competitions where they can network and tax the brains/expertise of people in the field.

 

ETA:

My home country universities admit strictly by grades. You get leeway only of you are in the national team for sports. So all the leadership positions I was in for ECA was only useful for job interviews.

[swellmomma]

I think a balance is good as long as the extracurriculars are done because the student wanted to try something new or was passionate about it rather than just to add a line to an application. Out here extracurrics do not factor into college applications. Only the grades you got in the pre-req courses. So I don't see students joining things just to have a line on a college application. So extracurrics should only be done because of an interest or love of that activity etc

[Nscribe]

What do you guys think? Is it okay to sometimes say, "well, you know this or that would look good on a college application," or, "this or that would show a good balance of activities" and encourage the "development of the resume"? Or is it better to let them continue to pursue their interests, and the things they are passionate about will place them exactly where they need to be? Would love to hear others' opinions, as I know I have idealistic leanings! ;)

 

Yes and no. How's that for wishy-washy? I don't think it is necessarily wrong to take into consideration the impact a use of time to provide a service/take part in an activity may have on a college application. However, if the only or even the top reason for doing the service activity (or extracurricular) is about "how it looks" or the "college application" then it is not okay.

 

Many families raise their kids in a culture of service. Some schools require service for graduation. Colleges generally do express a desire to see service as part of their applicant's overall profile. Civic clubs often serve both as networking opportunities and service organizations. Society generally places a value on service to the community and frequently rewards it with some sort of recognition (certificates, medals, various honors). In a sense, people learn to serve and these motivators can be effective in promoting an young individual to give service a try and have the opportunity to learn how to incorporate service into their lives.

 

Having a general sense of a need to serve may be the reason a person becomes alert to or investigates opportunties to do so. Then many factors enter the decision in selecting what to do. Thus, it is not wrong or un-okay to be motivated to look for opportunities to serve because it will also serve you. Where it can become problematic is when someone selects a particular activity over another because the individual seeks the most "impressive" service/activity instead of: the one he/she may have the most to offer, the one the individual feels most called to do, the one with the greatest need...

 

I would not be discouraged to hear a teen say that thinking about their college application encouraged them to seek opportunities. How a person executes the choice and/or chooses between options is far more telling about who they are and what stuff they are made of as humans.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

 

Yes and no. How's that for wishy-washy? I don't think it is necessarily wrong to take into consideration the impact a use of time to provide a service/take part in an activity may have on a college application. However, if the only or even the top reason for doing the service activity (or extracurricular) is about "how it looks" or the "college application" then it is not okay.

 

Many families raise their kids in a culture of service. Some schools require service for graduation. Colleges generally do express a desire to see service as part of their applicant's overall profile. Civic clubs often serve both as networking opportunities and service organizations. Society generally places a value on service to the community and frequently rewards it with some sort of recognition (certificates, medals, various honors). In a sense, people learn to serve and these motivators can be effective in promoting an young individual to give service a try and have the opportunity to learn how to incorporate service into their lives.

 

Having a general sense of a need to serve may be the reason a person becomes alert to or investigates opportunties to do so. Then many factors enter the decision in selecting what to do. Thus, it is not wrong or un-okay to be motivated to look for opportunities to serve because it will also serve you. Where it can become problematic is when someone selects a particular activity over another because the individual seeks the most "impressive" service/activity instead of: the one he/she may have the most to offer, the one the individual feels most called to do, the one with the greatest need...

 

I would not be discouraged to hear a teen say that thinking about their college application encouraged them to seek opportunities. How a person executes the choice and/or chooses between options is far more telling about who they are and what stuff they are made of as humans.

 

This is sort of where I am. Participating in outside activities is something I expect my kids to do. Weighing which one is of the most interest to them is something where they get a lot of rein. Similarly, I hope all of them will complete the requirements for Eagle Scout. I have two Life Scouts who are in project planning mode. There is a requirement for a service leadership project. But there is a lot of variety among projects from scout to scout within the restrictions of what is acceptable. I don't think it is fair to criticize a scout that they are doing a project because it is a rank requirement, when they are putting in several dozen to a couple hundred hours of work on something that is of benefit to the community.

 

Like a lot of things, I think you have to keep an eye on what your kid is interested in and how outsiders will understand those interests and activities. For example, my older kids have expressed an interest in service academies/ROTC. Both applications would ask about sports participation. So I've made sure that the kids know this and will have some kind of an answer. For one it is a competitive swim club and 5 practices a week. For the other it is a homeschool cross country team, solo running and a 5k race every couple months in the off season. An I upset that ds #2 especially was motivated to start running because he knew it would be an application question? No, I'm thrilled that he took up the challenge and gets himself out running several times a week. I see it partly as representative of seeing a goal and finding ways of moving toward it.

 

 

Of course there are some silly things that kids can end up doing. I remember reading years ago of a trend in some areas for students to start up small non-profits just for the purpose of doing something that could go on the applications. College Admissions Officers were discussing in the article how many kids were bypassing longstanding organizations because they felt it seemed more impressive to start a non-profit. But then these new non--profits shut down as soon as the kid went off to school.

[dirty ethel rackham]

With my oldest, I was not concerned about his college resume because I knew he had all the bases covered due to his interests (Scouts, Karate, church, other clubs.) My daughter is the same way. She wants to do everything and I have to continually remind her that we need to stay home to get work done:) However, my middle son is a bit more like a cat - he can be aloof and very choosy about how he spends his time. One thing that has come clear to us is the fact that he is somewhat weak in community service. He does help with a family ministry at church, but it is a small time commitment. We do some service projects through 4H, but again, these are not regular. He is one who really needs to learn a habit of service and the college resume is one carrot I can dangle in front of him. So, the initial motivation may be the college resume, but we hope the end result will be more meaningful.

[In The Great White North]

If the child has a goal (say, go to Harvard) and knows that an extracurricular (say, Boys' State) will improve his chances of achieving his goal, I think that is sufficient reason to participate. Not all extracurricular activities have to be an end in and of themselves. It is OK to for them to be the means to an end, that the child does want.

 

In the same way, a child will take four years of math because they know it will "look good on their transcript" even if they want to major in music and have no interest in math. Not all children will do math "for the right reasons".

[Barbara H]

A lot of what I see parents pushing their kids to do because they believe it looks good on a college application are actually things that college admissions really don't care about. Volunteering for one day for the 5K or Special Olympics as an isolated activity may be a good experience but it doesn't really impress. What colleges are looking for are kids who are genuinely interesting people who have a genuine desire to participate in an ongoing way in activities. They want kids who take on leadership roles and kids who can articulate what was meaningful to them about these experiences. That tends to be different than showing up because Mom made you.

 

As far as the broader question, I do think it is okay to require some stuff as part of your homeschool because it is a part of college and life readiness. That includes all sorts of things such as four years of math, take the SAT or ACT, learn cook basic meals, etc. Not all of those things need to be things that the child loves or asks to do. Sometimes you do stuff because it is part of life and learning.

 

Some hesitant kids benefit from being told they have to be involved in some kind of extracurricular or community activities. Of course, you want to come up with options that will be a good fit for their interests, but I believe it is fine to make it mandatory that they do something outside of the house. Some teens really need that initial nudge to get there and then it turns out to be a good experience. And, on the opposite end, I also support parents setting limits for the super involved kids. It will depend on your individual circumstances, but for a younger kid that limit might be two activities per season. For an older kid it might be a specific dollar limit or number of rides per week with the understanding if they want to earn money or find their own transportation they may be involved in more activities.

[Grantmom]

Great replies! I really just don't want my child to think like, "What will look good on my resume/application?" But I do think that if he wasn't involved in things, I would definitely try to get him to put himself out there. For myself, as a youth, and even as an adult, all of the service type things I did came out of interest in that area, and I just hope that my child can/will do the same. I just don't want him to be influenced by his peers saying they are doing this or that because it looks good on the college application. Maybe it just means having open dialogue about it though.

[Gwen in VA]

My understanding is that college admissions folks want a well-rounded student body made up of students who are passionate about their individual interest/niche.

 

In other words, admissions people are not interested in well-rounded students per se (one sport, one musical activity, one art, some volunteering, a little of this, a little of that) but in students who are intensely involved in what they do do.

 

JMHO -- and what I have gleaned while trying to get four kids into college.....

[plansrme]

My understanding is that college admissions folks want a well-rounded student body made up of students who are passionate about their individual interest/niche.

 

In other words, admissions people are not interested in well-rounded students per se (one sport, one musical activity, one art, some volunteering, a little of this, a little of that) but in students who are intensely involved in what they do do.

 

JMHO -- and what I have gleaned while trying to get four kids into college.....

 

 

This makes so much sense. I have recently been sucked into College Confidential and have read a few of the "chance me" posts, and the EC lists of the so-called "competitive" students look exactly alike. How can one student passionately pursue 15 worthwhile extracurricular activities? Leadership Club? French Club? Aren't these all made-up activities to give kids something to put on their college apps? Wouldn't they be better off engaging in real activities or oh, I don't know, getting a job and saving enough money to spend a month in a French-speaking African country? Maybe not--I was never in French Club, so I don't know quite what one does there. It just seems to me that there are so many worthwhile ways to spend one's time, and French Club maybe isn't one of them.

 

My gymnast freshman spends 20 hours a week at the gym, 25 if you count commute time, so there is no way in the world she can have 15 ECs. She attends FCA at her school because it meets at 7:30 AM, and she teaches ballet to first graders and has done so since she was about 10 (she started assisting her teacher with 3 year olds). She hopes to be injury-free enough one day to win vault at Level 10 regionals and maybe Nationals. But these three things may well be all she ever does. I can't believe that some French Club treasurer is going to be a better addition to Selective U than she is!

 

Rant over--thank you for playing.

 

Terri

[Grantmom]

I totally agree!

[Grantmom]

My problem is that I feel like some kids are saying things like, I'll volunteer for the Special Olympics because I need to do another activity for my college application, and that just feels wrong to me.

[Barbara H]

My problem is that I feel like some kids are saying things like, I'll volunteer for the Special Olympics because I need to do another activity for my college application, and that just feels wrong to me.

 

I agree it feels wrong. I bet most often when kids say this it is because that's exactly how their parents have presented volunteering or community service. Maybe because that's what the parents really believe about service or maybe because it was a convenient excuse to gain the teen's compliance.

 

I wouldn't worry that your kid is going to pick up this attitude if they have a different set of experiences. Kids who grow up doing service with family, scouts, church youth group, etc. don't grow up thinking purpose is resume building. Instead what I see sometimes is kids who think it is irrelevant for college or they are overly hesitant to discuss or document what they've done. They don't want to feel like they are cashing in on something that is just a part of their life. It takes some nudges to get some selfless kids to realize it is okay to talk about what they do for others and to feel good about it.

[Barbara H]

I caution against worry that kids are too well rounded or too pointy. Colleges need all kinds of kids. That includes the kids who do a wide range of activities and the single minded kids. At highly selective schools it can be harder to stand out from the pile if your kid is an all-arounder kind of kid, but certainly there are well-rounded kids who get accepted. Also, the well-rounded kids are often really appealing to liberal arts colleges. They are small but trying to keep going sports teams, music groups, newspaper, etc. and they want kids who will be involved in school activities.

 

The other question that seems to be raised by the discussion here is are some activities better than others. I don't think it is that simple. There is not a master list of activities admissions likes and dislikes. It is more about what your kid does with the activity. I agreer two hours of French club once a month doesn't mean a lot and stacking up these sorts of activities to resume build is not worth a lot. But, there are kids who have certainly turned French club into a great extracurricular where they put in lots of hours and built something unique or interesting.

[In The Great White North]

My problem is that I feel like some kids are saying things like, I'll volunteer for the Special Olympics because I need to do another activity for my college application, and that just feels wrong to me.

 

Some of these activities couldn't happen at all without tons of volunteers, so I would be reluctant to discourage the kids who are only there for their resume. Theyir help is still needed.

[lisabees]

My understanding is that college admissions folks want a well-rounded student body made up of students who are passionate about their individual interest/niche.

 

In other words, admissions people are not interested in well-rounded students per se (one sport, one musical activity, one art, some volunteering, a little of this, a little of that) but in students who are intensely involved in what they do do.

 

JMHO -- and what I have gleaned while trying to get four kids into college.....

 

 

:iagree: I think it also matters more if you are looking for admittance into a smaller school and/or a competitive school. These schools prefer students who have demonstrated serious interest in a specific area. If a student is applying only to large state schools for a non-competitive major, admissions are not going to pay much attention to the specific extracurriculars or even essay. Our local high school counselor told me that (PA) state schools just plug in the numbers and if they are above a certain amount, you're in. DS applied to smaller, liberal arts colleges. If you had only plugged in numbers, he wouldn't stand out. But, if you get to know him through his essays and his intensely demonstrated passions, then it's easy to see how/what he would contribute to the college community. In fact, ds had no specific volunteering on his application (too random to count) - but his extracurriculars showed that he cared about the world and wanted to change it.

 

There really is no one way to go about extracurriculars. Follow your child's lead. But take his passions as far as they can go. It's always a fun ride - for both of you.

[Grantmom]

Some of these activities couldn't happen at all without tons of volunteers, so I would be reluctant to discourage the kids who are only there for their resume. Theyir help is still needed.

 

Also, some kids might not be interested in something, and maybe a friend drags them to an activity that they don't really want to do, and then they experience something that really changes their life, or just sparks an interest they didn't know they had.

[TravelingChris]

I never pushed my kids to do things for college admissions. We started them young on extracurriculars= basically before school. SO they did soccer as preschoolers and all continued. They all learned to swim and one did swim team and two did dive team. We had them all do music and they all continued in some way through high school and beyond. We had them in Scouts and all wanted to continue in some form. Two wanted to do art (as in drawing, painting, such like) but the other didn't. One was very interested in debate. One was very interested in robotics and building competitions. All liked science fairs. They just all basically continued in the types of activities they did as youngsters and sometimes added new ones as opportunities arose. I wouldn't dream of forcing extracurriculars.

[chiguirre]

This is a really interesting discussion since I have younger kids who are still exploring where their interests lie. But, I have to say that you can't just volunteer for Special Olympics for a day. You have to be 18 and pass a background check to coach SO. We do get lots of help from Key Clubs and other service organizations to help run meets and events, but those kids are usually doing other volunteer opportunities through those clubs too, so it's not a one day commitment. Even if people only show up for one day, SO can't run an event without huge crews of volunteers because parents have to sit with their athletes.

[*LC]

When my oldest was filling out scholarship applications, community service and leadership are the two things lacking on her resume. There wasn't time once she hit high school between sports every evening after school and games on weekends. Plus, I felt I was driving her enough places for sports, so I didn't look for things for her to do. In addition, we had just moved, so I didn't know about local possibilities.

 

My next kid will have a lot more community service on his applications. A lot of it is driven by him, and other things have fallen in his lap. He joined a high school service club that older sister is an officer in this year; she didn't join until junior year when she could drive herself to the early before-school meetings. He is a life-scout planning his eagle scout project; I think it is harder to find older girl scout troops. He was asked to volunteer with the weeknight children's program at a church we visited even after we stopped visiting; sister had sports after school and could not do this. He has volunteered a local pet shelter for years; it is a crazy volunteer schedule that you sign up for months in advance -- wouldn't work with travel sports. It is hard enough for me to schedule him around siblings' sports schedules.

 

That said, I am encouraging him to look into other options for volunteering, because I know of their importance for scholarships. Plus, I am aware of them now since we have been here longer. The things I am mentioning to my son are things that I know will interest him, and they are things that will work with our crazy schedule or he can walk there from school.

 

I don't think the added motiviation of it looking good on a resume is a bad reason to start volunteering, especially if it is something you would like to do anyway.