s/o - Statements of Faith & Catholics

[VeritasMama]

I am not Catholic, but I have many Catholic friends.

 

In my experience, one of the greatest issues of difference occurs when talking about authority. Non-denominational Christian groups (in general) assert that the Bible is the highest authority. According to Catholic doctrine, even though the Bible is regarded as an authority, church tradition is considered the highest authority.

 

There may be other issues, but I have not encountered any others which cause greater conflict than the one above.

 

 

I'm a Catholic, our doctrine states that Sacred scripture, Tradition, and the Magisterium are all equally authoritative, and you can't have one without the other. The canon found in scripture was finalized based on Tradition and made official by the authority of the Magisterium. They are interconnected.

[Crimson Wife]

 

Why? (real question, I'm sitting here reading it and wondering if I have a problem with it - and I can't think of anything..what am I missing?..)

 

 

I presume the idea being infant baptism does not count, and a second "believer's" baptism is necessary. To me, this seems a bit splitting hairs, because only 1 baptism is seen as valid and necessary for forgiveness of sins through Christ.

 

ETA: this is just my understanding and Baptists are free to correct me if I am mistaken.

[Kathryn]

 

 

 

I was once presented with a statement of faith where I simply drew a line through the two words I couldn't agree with, signed it and handed it in. They were fine with that. If the group is valuable to you and isn't harming your faith, you might see if they would go for that. There are all kinds of groups out there and, as has been pointed out, the SOFs aren't always trying to weed out RCs and EOs--sometimes it's clueless boiler plate.

 

Thank you. The membership roster lists which church each family attends. There are no Catholics, but there is one Orthodox. I'm friends with her and just messages her on Facebook to ask what she does. If she just signs it as is and hasnt questioned anyone, I'll probably end up asking leadership about it when it comes time to renew.

[Juniper]

Could you deal with SACC's? "We believe that the Bible is the Word of God and in the inerrancy of scripture. We believe in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, in Christ crucified, buried and risen. We will always refer to the Bible as our foundational teaching tool."

 

 

I guess it does have that "inerrancy" part in it. But do the Catholics believe that the Bible is full of errors? I wouldn't take that to mean a literal 6 day creation. So say a document is without err doesn't mean our interpretation is without err. So you could have Genesis be true, but be talking in metaphor. Jesus told parables. I don't think there was a real prodigal son, but it doesn't mean the story's meaning isn't true, KWIM?

 

 

 

 

 

 

And you would NOT want to be part of that PE group. They are evil.

 

I just wanted to address this, because it is a very important issue to me. I could not sign that SOF, because Jesus is the Word of God. That is one major cornerstone of theology that I refuse to relinquish. :)

[JuanitaL]

I presume the idea being infant baptism does not count, and a second "believer's" baptism is necessary. To me, this seems a bit splitting hairs, because only 1 baptism is seen as valid and necessary for forgiveness of sins through Christ.

 

ETA: this is just my understanding and Baptists are free to correct me if I am mistaken.

Ok, that does make sense.

 

Since we don't do infant baptisms, that didn't even cross my mind when I saw "one baptism"; I guess I just thought - sure, one baptism, how many more would there be?

[a27mom]

 

 

I just wanted to address this, because it is a very important issue to me. I could not sign that SOF, because Jesus is the Word of God. That is one major cornerstone of theology that I refuse to relinquish. :)

 

Would it make a difference of it said the Bible is the words of God?

[Juniper]

Would it make a difference of it said the Bible is the words of God?

 

 

Very much so. :)

[Walking-Iris]

I have an Aunt who was pretty upset with me that I told her I had no intention of baptizing my oldest. I went through rites in college and I was at an age where I felt it was my choice. I began to believe in the protestant view that some of these decisions would be best as a personal choice. In my thinking it would still be one baptism. So if my children ever choose Christianity I would want them to make that call on their own. I think this is what sometimes causes confusion. "Catholic" sometimes has the sound of a pseudo racial epithet. I know people who do not believe and do not attend church and do not--anything---with regards to religion and yet will still look at you with a straight face and say they are "catholic"---because they were raised that way.

 

BUT I am a non practicing catholic/christian and so I live in that lovely place of my thoughts and opinions count for nothing. ;)

[Slartibartfast]

 

How glad I am that I was a Christian for many years before Ken Ham became The Expert. :rolleyes:

 

 

 

:lol:

[a27mom]

 

 

I presume the idea being infant baptism does not count, and a second "believer's" baptism is necessary. To me, this seems a bit splitting hairs, because only 1 baptism is seen as valid and necessary for forgiveness of sins through Christ.

 

ETA: this is just my understanding and Baptists are free to correct me if I am mistaken.

 

 

Well There are lots of brands of Baptists. The ones I was raised in wouldn't necessarily have an issue with it. Because water baptism was not necessary for salvation. And baptism of the spirit comes w salvation. ( but yes infant baptism does not count). Of course I am sure there are other types that would find issues ;)

 

Oh and we didn't do much with creeds, but I do remember being taught about it by one of our pastors, and they pointed out that catholic with a little c meant universal church.

 

Most baptists don't really know the history. But I think that is part of the point of being baptist. It is based on the revelation scripture, so church history/tradition is very tertiary.

 

Now when i joined a Mennonite church they gave me a whole book about church history, and you learn all about the people who had stakes driven through them and were burned to death because they performed believers baptism. And they do teach and occasionally use the creed in church. So I don't think rejection of infant baptism requires rejection of the creed.

[SarahW]

Why? (real question, I'm sitting here reading it and wondering if I have a problem with it - and I can't think of anything..what am I missing?..)

 

Because Baptists don't believe that baptism has anything to do with the forgiveness of sin.

 

It's a sign or a "symbol" of the sinners prayer or the conversion prayer, when previous sins were forgiven, but the baptism itself does not do anything.

[K&Rs Mom]

The membership roster lists which church each family attends.

 

 

Regardless of the other policies, this would probably be a dealbreaker for me on joining any kind of club. It's not like it's a secret where I go, and our family is listed in our church's directory, but that's the kind of thing that belongs in a conversation, not on a roster. What possible purpose could there be for this other than judging which people are the "right" kind to hang out with?

 

Because Baptists don't believe that baptism has anything to do with the forgiveness of sin.

It's a sign or a "symbol" of the sinners prayer or the conversion prayer, when previous sins were forgiven, but the baptism itself does not do anything.

 

 

I honestly had no idea, so I'm glad you posted this, but my brain is now screaming "then why are they called baptists?" :confused1:

[Shamzanne]

This is still a pretty fundamental misunderstanding of what Catholic is. If you are saying these people called themselves Catholic but don't agree with the Nicene Creed, either they seriously misunderstand the Church they belong to or you misunderstood them.

 

Catholics recite the Creed at Mass. It is a statement of Catholic belief. If a Catholic is disagreeing with it, they are seriously misinformed about what the Church is and what we believe.

 

I think the issue is differentiating between people who identify as Catholic and practicing Catholics. I know lots of people who say they are Catholic because of how they were raised and because their family is Catholic, but do not attend mass and most likely would not adhere to the Nicene Creed if you nailed them down on it.

 

So they are basically associating as Catholics culturally but not religiously. Like people who are Jewish culturally but are not religious.

 

I'm saying I agree that people should identify as Catholic if they are not observant but it seems that could be what the previous poster was talking about.

[AimeeM]

 

I think the issue is differentiating between people who identify as Catholic and practicing Catholics. I know lots of people who say they are Catholic because of how they were raised and because their family is Catholic, but do not attend mass and most likely would not adhere to the Nicene Creed if you nailed them down on it.

 

So they are basically associating as Catholics culturally but not religiously. Like people who are Jewish culturally but are not religious.

 

I'm saying I agree that people should identify as Catholic if they are not observant but it seems that could be what the previous poster was talking about.

I don't quite understand this statement (could be that I'm tired, lol). Could you explain what you mean?

[Kirch]

 

 

I honestly had no idea, so I'm glad you posted this, but my brain is now screaming "then why are they called baptists?" :confused1:

 

Baptists believe that baptism is a means of professing one's faith--an outward symbol of the inner change, the salvation that has taken place. They don't believe that baptism is necessary for or a part of salvation--you are baptized to publicly proclaim that you have chosen to follow Christ, not because you need to be baptized in order to be saved.

 

The name "Baptist" came from the fact that believer's baptism (as described above) as opposed to infant baptism was one of the main issues of divergence that Anabaptists had with the established church at the time, as well as the fact that they believed in and practiced baptism by immersion.

[Ellie]

I honestly had no idea, so I'm glad you posted this, but my brain is now screaming "then why are they called baptists?" :confused1:

 

Because they believe that you must be baptized after you make a profession of faith.

[Ellie]

Thank you. The membership roster lists which church each family attends. There are no Catholics, but there is one Orthodox. I'm friends with her and just messages her on Facebook to ask what she does. If she just signs it as is and hasn't questioned anyone, I'll probably end up asking leadership about it when it comes time to renew.

 

:huh:

 

Ok, back when I would have agreed with most Protestant SOFs, this would have been a deal-breaker for me. I see no reason for the name of the church a family attends.

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

most likely would not adhere to the Nicene Creed if you nailed them down on it.

 

I'm sorry, but I find the wording here just too darn funny...

Nail them??? As in crucify them? ;-) :lol:

[Parrothead]

Ken Ham started teaching that if you don't believe in a literal 24hr/6day creation then the rest of your Christian faith and belief in the Bible falls apart because you are then calling God a liar and can't trust the Scriptures. Therefore, you can't be a real Christian without believing what he teaches, exactly how he teaches it.

That one, the Ham fellow, sounds like quite the egotistical maniac.

[Parrothead]

Because Baptists don't believe that baptism has anything to do with the forgiveness of sin.

 

It's a sign or a "symbol" of the sinners prayer or the conversion prayer, when previous sins were forgiven, but the baptism itself does not do anything.

If it doesn't do anything why be baptized?

 

Nevermind Kirch answered up thread.

[Mom22ns]

Baptists believe that baptism is a means of professing one's faith--an outward symbol of the inner change, the salvation that has taken place. They don't believe that baptism is necessary for or a part of salvation--you are baptized to publicly proclaim that you have chosen to follow Christ, not because you need to be baptized in order to be saved.

 

The name "Baptist" came from the fact that believer's baptism (as described above) as opposed to infant baptism was one of the main issues of divergence that Anabaptists had with the established church at the time, as well as the fact that they believed in and practiced baptism by immersion.

 

This is well explained from a Baptist point of view. I would add that Baptism is an act of obedience, so while not necessary for salvation, it is considered necessary in order to live in obedience with the teachings of Christ and scripture.

[a27mom]

 

 

Regardless of the other policies, this would probably be a dealbreaker for me on joining any kind of club. It's not like it's a secret where I go, and our family is listed in our church's directory, but that's the kind of thing that belongs in a conversation, not on a roster. What possible purpose could there be for this other than judging which people are the "right" kind to hang out

 

Possible other purposes:

 

1. Knowing what people in the group might have expertise if you have friends looking for a similar church or are looking for one yourself. Or you have questions about doctrine in that church.

 

2. Being able to make outside connections. "Oh, my brother goes to church there", or in the case of a large church, "I go to church there too"

 

3. Being able to be sensitive and deal with issues /concerns, "I read the long time Priest at your parish passed away how are you doing".

 

4. It is interesting to know things about people.

 

5. People who join the group become aware of the diversity and don't think everybody thinks just like them.

 

I know you have been intentionally weeded out and hurt by it. But I have suggested just such a thing for a Moms group I attend, with absolutely no intention of eliminating or avoiding anybody in anyway. :)

[Kathryn]

I found it interesting to see what churches the people in the group attend. I just looked back over the list. There were 131 families listed at the beginning of the year. Not including myself, there is one Catholic, one Orthodox, one Methodist, and one Episcopalian. There are a handful of Lutherans, Presbyterians, and no answers. The rest appear to be Baptist and non-denominational.

[mommaduck]

Possible other purposes:

 

1. Knowing what people in the group might have expertise if you have friends looking for a similar church or are looking for one yourself. Or you have questions about doctrine in that church.

 

2. Being able to make outside connections. "Oh, my brother goes to church there", or in the case of a large church, "I go to church there too"

 

3. Being able to be sensitive and deal with issues /concerns, "I read the long time Priest at your parish passed away how are you doing".

 

4. It is interesting to know things about people.

 

5. People who join the group become aware of the diversity and don't think everybody thinks just like them.

 

I know you have been intentionally weeded out and hurt by it. But I have suggested just such a thing for a Moms group I attend, with absolutely no intention of eliminating or avoiding anybody in anyway. :)

 

No, the general reason given is "accountability".....basically, "we want to know who to tattle to if we think we have a problem with you". (btw, their is a well known Reformed board with this rule and some people are nasty enough to use it to try to "tattle" on others when they don't like what is said to them)

[mommaduck]

I found it interesting to see what churches the people in the group attend. I just looked back over the list. There were 131 families listed at the beginning of the year. Not including myself, there is one Catholic, one Orthodox, one Methodist, and one Episcopalian. There are a handful of Lutherans, Presbyterians, and no answers. The rest appear to be Baptist and non-denominational.

 

A lot of non-denominational churches are independent baptist churches that don't want to use the term "baptist" because people react negatively to it (admittance from some baptist teenagers I know and from my own time in baptist and non-denominational churches).

[Crimson Wife]

 

This is well explained from a Baptist point of view. I would add that Baptism is an act of obedience, so while not necessary for salvation, it is considered necessary in order to live in obedience with the teachings of Christ and scripture.

 

 

Still seems a bit splitting hairs IMHO. It doesn't sound like Baptists reject the act of baptism, just differ in the timing. Christians of all denominations believe that Christ is the one to forgive sins, not the water in which the individual is baptized. So I'm not seeing why there would be a problem with the particular line in the Nicene Creed referencing baptism.

[mommaduck]

If it doesn't do anything why be baptized?

 

Nevermind Kirch answered up thread.

 

And if you question yourself throughout your life, you can always "rededicate yourself" and get baptised again, and again, and again....till you feel you've made it real ;)

[mommaduck]

 

Still seems a bit splitting hairs IMHO. It doesn't sound like Baptists reject the act of baptism, just differ in the timing. Christians of all denominations believe that Christ is the one to forgive sins, not the water in which the individual is baptized. So I'm not seeing why there would be a problem with the particular line in the Nicene Creed referencing baptism.

 

Uhm, some of us do believe that Baptism is part and parcel...

[SarahW]

 

Still seems a bit splitting hairs IMHO. It doesn't sound like Baptists reject the act of baptism, just differ in the timing. Christians of all denominations believe that Christ is the one to forgive sins, not the water in which the individual is baptized. So I'm not seeing why there would be a problem with the particular line in the Nicene Creed referencing baptism.

 

 

I don't think it is splitting hairs, but I take theology seriously because that's my "thing."

 

I do know Baptists who have specifically told me that they do not agree with this line. But most Baptists ignore the Nicene creed, so they wouldn't know whether they agree with it or not.

[Walking-Iris]

I'd like to point out that the First Council of Nicea didn't say anything about "one holy catholic and apostolic church" or "one baptism" or "resurrection" or a "world to come"...those became terms added during Council of Constantinople. So..splitting hairs. I'd also like to say I personally have met and known many Baptists as well as other protestants who were pretty well versed in these issues and church history.

 

To answer the original OP, since it was my exclusion thread that spawned this spin off, this is why I could never sign a SOF...ever.... because regardless of what I personally believe I will never be able to publicly identify with the Christian community any longer, mainly because of the theological splitting of hairs and assumptions about an individuals beliefs or knowledge based on which particular group or church they have decided to identify with. It's not "good enough" to simply have a faith, one must also have a religion to be accepted.

[SarahW]

I'd like to point out that the First Council of Nicea didn't say anything about "one holy catholic and apostolic church" or "one baptism" or "resurrection" or a "world to come"...those became terms added during Council of Constantinople. So..splitting hairs. I'd also like to say I personally have met and known many Baptists as well as other protestants who were pretty well versed in these issues and church history.

 

To answer the original OP, since it was my exclusion thread that spawned this spin off, this is why I could never sign a SOF...ever.... because regardless of what I personally believe I will never be able to publicly identify with the Christian community any longer, mainly because of the theological splitting of hairs and assumptions about an individuals beliefs or knowledge based on which particular group or church they have decided to identify with. It's not "good enough" to simply have a faith, one must also have a religion to be accepted.

 

Honestly, I think you are the one splitting hairs.

 

What I am referencing is commonly referred to as the "Nicene Creed." How and when and where it all came together isn't the issue here. The issue here is what the "Nicene Creed" says and whether that would be acceptable to everyone.

 

And I know Baptists who are "pretty well versed in these issues and church history" and they are the ones who told me that they have a problem with this line. I say Baptists ignore it because they just do. They don't print in their pew books, they don't give sermons about it, and they certainly don't recite it together in church. Which means that the average Regular-Baptist-Church-Member is probably not even aware of it. I should know, I grew up Baptist, and I never read the "Nicene Creed" until I went to college and took a theology class.

[a27mom]

 

A lot of non-denominational churches are independent baptist churches that don't want to use the term "baptist" because people react negatively to it (admittance from some baptist teenagers I know and from my own time in baptist and non-denominational churches).

 

Yes there is a significant amount of prejudice against baptists out there. I am sure I had a friend or 2 who wasn't allowed to attend certain events with me because I went to a "baptist" church. And therefore was " bad". I didn't realize it until I was in high school and some (in this case catholic) kids who came to our youth group told us what they had been taught. The church I grew up in a few years ago did finally end up changing its name due to this prejudice. It make me sad. It was/is a great church.

 

I never took it personally, just figured those people were ignorant. I would guess there are some homeschool groups back home that try to weed out the baptists. ( I dont know his for sure though)

[mommaduck]

Yes there is a significant amount of prejudice against baptists out there. I am sure I had a friend or 2 who wasn't allowed to attend certain events with me because I went to a "baptist" church. And therefore was " bad". I didn't realize it until I was in high school and some (in this case catholic) kids who came to our youth group told us what they had been taught. The church I grew up in a few years ago did finally end up changing its name due to this prejudice. It make me sad. It was/is a great church.

 

I never took it personally, just figured those people were ignorant. I would guess there are some homeschool groups back home that try to weed out the baptists. ( I dont know his for sure though)

I remember trying to get our Catholic friend to go to youth activities with us and drilling him with questions we had from reading Chick tracts. He would just smile, answer questions, laugh off the ridiculous ones, and shake his head at us, hug us, and tell us he would meet up with us after youth group. He would have sponsored us in the EO if the EO permitted RC sponsors (he was so thrilled for us, even though we chose EO over RC, he was thrilled...he's been my husband's best friend since childhood and has been a brother to me and uncle to the kids...never married, much to his Spanish mother's ire, but a loving person all around...he should have become a priest like he threatened years ago).

[Kathryn]

 

A lot of non-denominational churches are independent baptist churches that don't want to use the term "baptist" because people react negatively to it (admittance from some baptist teenagers I know and from my own time in baptist and non-denominational churches).

 

I've noticed this also.

[a27mom]

 

I remember trying to get our Catholic friend to go to youth activities with us and drilling him with questions we had from reading Chick tracts. He would just smile, answer questions, laugh off the ridiculous ones, and shake his head at us, hug us, and tell us he would meet up with us after youth group. He would have sponsored us in the EO if the EO permitted RC sponsors (he was so thrilled for us, even though we chose EO over RC, he was thrilled...he's been my husband's best friend since childhood and has been a brother to me and uncle to the kids...never married, much to his Spanish mother's ire, but a loving person all around...he should have become a priest like he threatened years ago).

 

But see we never drilled them or anything like that. ( I have no idea what a chick tract is.) We just invited people to fun events. We weren't even affiliated with a specific baptist denom. we just had that term in our name because years ago the people who started the church were from a baptist church on the other side of the city. And baptist was where our teaching most closely aligned.

 

Oh and my catholic friends never invited me to anything at their church, except once to the private school fundraising carnival. I remember thinking this was odd. I would have gone if invited. I just assumed I wasn't welcome there. But I didn't take it personally.

 

I think a lot of it is based on you experience. I had to learn that the word catholic didn't mean "only goes to church on holidays" ( I honestly thought that was the definition until I was 9, my mother was rather horrified and corrected my error.). Others need to learn that baptist and evangelical doesnt mean "shove the gospel down your throat, and avoid you if you are impure". Even though there are many who fit the definitions who claim those titles, that isn't representative of the whole group.

 

I guess that is why I try not to ascribe nefarious motive to every statement of faith and membership list type of thing.

[Parrothead]

Yes there is a significant amount of prejudice against baptists out there. I am sure I had a friend or 2 who wasn't allowed to attend certain events with me because I went to a "baptist" church. And therefore was " bad". I didn't realize it until I was in high school and some (in this case catholic) kids who came to our youth group told us what they had been taught. The church I grew up in a few years ago did finally end up changing its name due to this prejudice. It make me sad. It was/is a great church.

 

I never took it personally, just figured those people were ignorant. I would guess there are some homeschool groups back home that try to weed out the baptists. ( I dont know his for sure though)

 

 

Wow. That is too bad. I'm sorry.

[Parrothead]

I remember trying to get our Catholic friend to go to youth activities with us and drilling him with questions we had from reading Chick tracts. He would just smile, answer questions, laugh off the ridiculous ones, and shake his head at us, hug us, and tell us he would meet up with us after youth group. He would have sponsored us in the EO if the EO permitted RC sponsors (he was so thrilled for us, even though we chose EO over RC, he was thrilled...he's been my husband's best friend since childhood and has been a brother to me and uncle to the kids...never married, much to his Spanish mother's ire, but a loving person all around...he should have become a priest like he threatened years ago).

 

 

He sounds like an awesome guy.

[mommaduck]

He is.

[Ellie]

Yes there is a significant amount of prejudice against baptists out there. I am sure I had a friend or 2 who wasn't allowed to attend certain events with me because I went to a "baptist" church. And therefore was " bad". I didn't realize it until I was in high school and some (in this case catholic) kids who came to our youth group told us what they had been taught. The church I grew up in a few years ago did finally end up changing its name due to this prejudice. It make me sad. It was/is a great church.

 

I never took it personally, just figured those people were ignorant. I would guess there are some homeschool groups back home that try to weed out the baptists. ( I dont know his for sure though)

 

I have never heard of any kind of prejudice against "Baptists." Ever.

 

 

Of course, we have to define "Baptist." Southern Baptist? American Baptist? Free Will Baptist? Reformed Baptist? Independent Baptist? You cannot lump those groups together just because their church groups have the word "Baptist" in their names.

[UrbanSue]

 

Still seems a bit splitting hairs IMHO. It doesn't sound like Baptists reject the act of baptism, just differ in the timing. Christians of all denominations believe that Christ is the one to forgive sins, not the water in which the individual is baptized. So I'm not seeing why there would be a problem with the particular line in the Nicene Creed referencing baptism.

 

 

 

But Baptists don't think that the act of baptism fundamentally changes you, whereas Catholics do. Baptism is a sacrament for Catholics and a symbol for Baptists.

[VeritasMama]

 

I have never heard of any kind of prejudice against "Baptists." Ever.

 

 

Of course, we have to define "Baptist." Southern Baptist? American Baptist? Free Will Baptist? Reformed Baptist? Independent Baptist? You cannot lump those groups together just because their church groups have the word "Baptist" in their names.

 

I think there is a huge backlash against all Christians right now in the mainstream culture, which is becoming more and more secular. Maybe this is what the churches mentioned were fighting against, the overall prejudice against Christians of all denominations. If that is the case, I find it foolish. Re-branding doesn't work, it won't gain you more acceptance from those who are already anti-Christian, and it will only confuse the members you already have.

 

Another scenario that popped into my mind is that perhaps this "Baptist" church was trying to evolve into a more liberal church. Maybe it felt in order to strike out in a new direction they needed a new name.

 

My in-laws have been dealing with the breakup of their Lutheran parish in their rural community. The main church that their smaller church had been affiliated with has become very liberal, and the smaller country churches had to decide whether to accept the new teachings, break away on their own, or align themselves with another larger church that had not changed their doctrine. Very interesting times for Christians.

[VeritasMama]

 

 

But Baptists don't think that the act of baptism fundamentally changes you, whereas Catholics do. Baptism is a sacrament for Catholics and a symbol for Baptists.

 

Huh, I've never heard this before. So, baptists don't believe you are "reborn" through baptism, as in John 3:5?

 

I'm really very curious about this, I had no idea some Christians thought of baptism as a symbol.

[UrbanSue]

Huh, I've never heard this before. So, baptists don't believe you are "reborn" through baptism, as in John 3:5?

 

I'm really very curious about this, I had no idea some Christians thought of baptism as a symbol.

 

Well, a practicing Baptist can correct me here if I'm wrong but, no, you are not reborn through Baptism. You are reborn through your profession of faith. Catholics are reborn at Baptism.

 

ETA: I'm Catholic, btw.

[Crimson Wife]

Uhm, some of us do believe that Baptism is part and parcel...

 

But the water by itself isn't forgiving sins, it is Christ (acting through the priest in RC or EO baptisms). Without Christ, the water is just H2O giving a physical cleansing.

[Crimson Wife]

 

I have never heard of any kind of prejudice against "Baptists." Ever.

 

 

I have. Where I grew up (New England), Baptists and all fundamentalist Protestants in general were stereotyped as backward and stupid. Mostly because of the whole literal reading of Scripture thing, particularly when it comes to YEC. I didn't actually know any Baptists growing up even though there was a Baptist church in my hometown.

[Kathryn]

I have never heard of any kind of prejudice against "Baptists." Ever.

 

 

Of course, we have to define "Baptist." Southern Baptist? American Baptist? Free Will Baptist? Reformed Baptist? Independent Baptist? You cannot lump those groups together just because their church groups have the word "Baptist" in their names.

 

 

Really? Down here, "Baptist" means Southern Baptist (most people don't know that there are other types) and, hmm, I don't know how to say this nicely, Baptists don't have a very good reputation among other denominations and religions.

[AimeeM]

But see we never drilled them or anything like that. ( I have no idea what a chick tract is.) We just invited people to fun events. We weren't even affiliated with a specific baptist denom. we just had that term in our name because years ago the people who started the church were from a baptist church on the other side of the city. And baptist was where our teaching most closely aligned.

 

Oh and my catholic friends never invited me to anything at their church, except once to the private school fundraising carnival. I remember thinking this was odd. I would have gone if invited. I just assumed I wasn't welcome there. But I didn't take it personally.

 

I think a lot of it is based on you experience. I had to learn that the word catholic didn't mean "only goes to church on holidays" ( I honestly thought that was the definition until I was 9, my mother was rather horrified and corrected my error.). Others need to learn that baptist and evangelical doesnt mean "shove the gospel down your throat, and avoid you if you are impure". Even though there are many who fit the definitions who claim those titles, that isn't representative of the whole group.

 

I guess that is why I try not to ascribe nefarious motive to every statement of faith and membership list type of thing.

 

I think it's prudent to remember that people only have as much to go on as they know personally. In this area, I would not allow my child to attend an event at a Baptist church with friends; no way, no how, because around here their goal IS evangelism and I've seen/experienced that first hand.

On that note, there aren't a ton of youth activities at our Catholic parish to invite anyone to, lol. Well, there's youth group itself, but other than that there are mostly family events (and even those aren't large in number).

[mommymilkies]

 

 

Really? Down here, "Baptist" means Southern Baptist (most people don't know that there are other types) and, hmm, I don't know how to say this nicely, Baptists don't have a very good reputation among other denominations and religions.

 

I think it's prudent to remember that people only have as much to go on as they know personally. In this area, I would not allow my child to attend an event at a Baptist church with friends; no way, no how, because around here their goal IS evangelism and I've seen/experienced that first hand.

 

Ayup. They are quite aggressive here and most of my maternal family is Baptist. No offense, but at least the ones I have encountered give themselves a bad name by not taking "no, thank you" as an answer. Baptists tend to be more readily acceptable the further south you go, too.

[UrbanSue]

 

But the water by itself isn't forgiving sins, it is Christ (acting through the priest in RC or EO baptisms). Without Christ, the water is just H2O giving a physical cleansing.

 

But Catholics believe that the sacrament itself effects the grace. Of course Christ is involved. Of course it would just be water without Christ. But Christ instituted the sacraments as a means of effecting grace. Could Christ save without Baptism? Sure. It's possible. He's God. But we don't presume that, as Catholics.

[mommaduck]

 

But Catholics believe that the sacrament itself effects the grace. Of course Christ is involved. Of course it would just be water without Christ. But Christ instituted the sacraments as a means of effecting grace. Could Christ save without Baptism? Sure. It's possible. He's God. But we don't presume that, as Catholics.

Agreed!