Wildwood Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 Hello, I am looking into writing programs for my soon to be 4th grader and have seemed to make some sort of connection with the philosophy of Brave Writer---although, I have barely scratched the surface as far as really getting to know it (or other writing programs for that matter). I am finding that the Brave Writer website is a lot to take in and I am having a hard time getting a feel for the actual day-to-day lessons---even after viewing the samples. I'd really appreciate any insight here. Thanks, Candice 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbmamaz Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 hoping farrar with show up - i think she has a big review on her blog, which might be called 'i capture the rowhouse?" anyways, its more about a routine than a lesson plan. like one day you do free writing and one day you read poetry together and . . .um . . i forget. I'm not doing it very well. we're doing spelling. Oh, one day you do copywork, i know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 Yes, I roam the boards talking up Bravewriter. ;) These are the two blog posts I wrote about Bravewriter... This is the one when I first found it and this is the one about how we implemented it. I think the Bravewriter site does a terrible job of explaining the Bravewriter program. Basically there are several pieces: The Writer's Jungle - explains the philosophy, suggests activities and routines - start with this and read it - everyone should, even if they are doing a different program! The Wand, The Arrow, and The Boomerang are supplements that focus on copywork and dictation based on literature for different age groups. They each work in different ways. The Arrow would be the one that's right for a 4th grader. If you like TWJ, you can consider getting it but I highly suggest buying a bundle of past issues you select at HSBC because that way you don't wind up with books you've already read or just don't want to read ever. Jot It Down is another supplement specifically for the "Jot it Down" stage. A fourth grader would be past this probably. There may be one for the next stage coming out soon though. There's a high school supplement as well, but it's obviously for high schoolers. They also offer online classes. ETA: Oh, and keep in mind, Bravewriter isn't a laid out program that tells you just what to do. It's about creating language arts routines. So it's not for anyone who is looking for something scripted. However, I still maintain that The Writer's Jungle is a good enough book that it's worth reading regardless - it will just make you feel good about teaching writing. It will make you feel capable. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbmamaz Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 you need to send ms bravewriter the links to your blogs and a better summary for her website lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 The website is very pretty. And it may do a good job of selling their online classes, which we might do at some point, but haven't yet. I just know that I saw it mentioned many times and looked at the website several times and never considered buying it because I never understood it. I kept seeing it and being like, huh? And I thought it wasn't really for kids until 3rd or 4th grade, which isn't true at all. There's ton in TWJ about younger kids. And if I had known about The Wand three years ago, I think it might have been perfect for us. It took me seeing Julie Bogart speak before I was like, oh, I really want to read this book and buy this stuff. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 Farrar, would you say this could be a good writing program for a reluctant writer? I'm scrapping, for next year, any "formal" writing for the dyslexic reluctant writer in my clan, but I would like something of a guide perhaps... something to make it interesting for her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 Farrar, would you say this could be a good writing program for a reluctant writer? I'm scrapping, for next year, any "formal" writing for the dyslexic reluctant writer in my clan, but I would like something of a guide perhaps... something to make it interesting for her. Yes, definitely. One of her kids was apparently a very late writer and maybe had some learning issues. I've definitely heard about people who use it with very reluctant writers who are apparently having good success with it. Obviously, sometimes kids who have learning issues related to reading and writing can need specific interventions, but outside of that, I think BW is so flexible and so encouraging - both to you as a teacher and to kids as a system - that it can be good for kids who are reluctant writers. Even if some of the specific methods don't turn out to be the right thing for all reluctant writers, the tone of the book makes you feel so much better about a kid who might be a little behind that it's probably a huge boost for most teachers of reluctant writers. This is not to say that it isn't right for kids who love to write. Like I said, it's really flexible, which is part of why it isn't a really laid out curriculum - because it's meant to help you make routines to help kids as individuals instead of boxing them into a particular step or age or grade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAR Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 We are also using Bravewriter for a reluctant 4th grader and seeing progress. While our youngest (2nd grade) enjoys the traditional writing process and can take a topic and just write, our oldest does not enjoy a blank page. It's too intimidating. She shuts down and gets angry. We've have success with Bravewriter's concrete observations. For example, last weekend we all used our five senses to observe an apple. Our 4th grader loved the activity. She was able to hold the apple....see it........taste it....she even nibbled on the stem and seeds to get information. Her descriptive paragraph isn't someting to publish, but it was an incredible start. And she was proud of herself and results. We have another similar project scheduled for this week. I also use copywork and dictation for our oldest. Our youngest won't do it, but still sits with us and writes her own composition. We are also working on freewrites which our oldest really likes. She doesn't have to worry about grammar....she just writes. We haven't gotten to real editing yet, but I know we will. I just have to be patient and accept the little successes along the way. As farrar said, it's not a scripted program which can be a challenge and offers exciting elements. You need to read the book and figure out how to make it work for your family. It's definitely worth the money if you go in with an open mind. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildwood Posted January 29, 2013 Author Share Posted January 29, 2013 Ladies, thank you. I found the information you shared very helpful. I'm now getting a more clear picture of what BW would look like and what type of student it would serve well. I signed up for "Julie's Daily Writing Tip" and am thinking I'll actually try out some of her writing suggestions. I really do like her philosophy, I'd just have to be comfortable with a more open-ended type of writing program. Thanks, again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monarch Room Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 Ok, now y'all are just making me obsess about Bravewriter. :glare: Cut it out. :) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinkyandtheBrains. Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Does BraveWriter have it's own discussion forum? Or is that only part of the online classes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Does BraveWriter have it's own discussion forum? Or is that only part of the online classes? Hm. Not that I know of. That would be cool though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momsuz123 Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 We started with TWJ this year. I am totally on board already. I actually signed up for the BW kidswrite basic class for myself (and my 9 y/o dd). It is expensive, but I felt like I needed some hand holding, a kick in the butt, and someone "else" to encourage my 9 y/o dd. The funny thing is that with my just reading the writers jungle and slowly starting to implement some of the philosopy in our normal day of school, it was already working by the time my dd started taking the class (which was only like a week). I haven't finished all TWJ yet, but am working on it. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheres Toto Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Hm. Not that I know of. That would be cool though. They have a "forum" button on the website, and I saw an old reference to forums but they don't seem to be there anymore. The forum button goes to the blog posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbmamaz Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 yeah i wrote a while back, like at least 6 mo, and was told they were working on forums. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 She should set some up! Since so many people seem to struggle to get what BW is before they buy it, it would probably be a good sales tool, actually. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 I've looked at the website several times, and I think I get what The Writer's Jungle is all about, but I'm still baffled by The Wand, The Arrow, etc. Like with The Wand, the website says it's targeted for seven and eight year olds, but the sample lesson seems to be all about sounding out words like "pop." I don't know any seven year old that wouldn't be like, "Ooookay..." :confused1: with a lesson like that. My 4yo dd is past that, so I can imagine that most seven and eight year olds would be way beyond that. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delaney Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 I've looked at the website several times, and I think I get what The Writer's Jungle is all about, but I'm still baffled by The Wand, The Arrow, etc. Like with The Wand, the website says it's targeted for seven and eight year olds, but the sample lesson seems to be all about sounding out words like "pop." I don't know any seven year old that wouldn't be like, "Ooookay..." :confused1: with a lesson like that. My 4yo dd is past that, so I can imagine that most seven and eight year olds would be way beyond that. I got the same impression. I was looking for somewhere to go after PR1 since I no longer like it but wanted something similar in the way they teach parts and sounds to memorize. I was looking at Jot it Down but unsure if I need to buy Bravewrite right now and where to put my 3rd grader who really loves to write. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 I've looked at the website several times, and I think I get what The Writer's Jungle is all about, but I'm still baffled by The Wand, The Arrow, etc. Like with The Wand, the website says it's targeted for seven and eight year olds, but the sample lesson seems to be all about sounding out words like "pop." I don't know any seven year old that wouldn't be like, "Ooookay..." :confused1: with a lesson like that. My 4yo dd is past that, so I can imagine that most seven and eight year olds would be way beyond that. The Wand is interesting to me. We didn't use it because I didn't know about it back then, but I feel like it would have been good for us. I've seen it now as a couple of families i know are doing it - it's a huge binder. It has three levels, so kids doing level 1 are doing really simple stuff, but it ramps up somewhat quickly and covers things like punctuation and grammar alongside some spelling and phonics. You can buy only the upper level if you wish and that covers a lot more - you can see the book lists on the website and get a feel for it. I think the goal with stuff like Hop on Pop is really focusing on the building blocks for spelling so that a child can do the dictations - the whole goal is building toward those longer dictations. Because the jump with The Arrow is pretty big. Those dictations are LONG. But the age thing is off a bit to me as well. Like with Jot it Down, which is supposed to be for ages 7-9, I think? It's just way more little kid. My 8 yos are not advanced with writing by any means and they would have been too old for that. I think she just shouldn't give these age ranges. I know that people need it to some extent, but her whole philosophy in the book is that kids advance through these stages of writing at different rates. It's part of her philosophy too that it's okay to go slow and really focus on narration in the early grades - very CM style. And to not worry too much because most writing skills can be taught at the end of middle school if a child has gotten "behind." But realistically, there's no reason that a lot of her methods can't be used with a kid who has advanced through the stages quicker. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheres Toto Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 I was pretty confused about some of the age stuff too. My son is 7 1/2, does mostly 3rd grade work and reads at a 4+ grade level. I was really unsure about what would be good for him. It seems to say different things in different places. I decided to just go ahead and place an order through the co-op. I already had The Writer's Jungle and I bought: One year subscription to the Wand for my younger dd, but I think I may start my son in Level 2 just because we haven't really done dictation yet. Jot It Down - to use with my son and eventually with dd. 5 issues of The Arrow. I picked out books that I know my son is interested in and that I thought would be easier. How To Train Your Dragon, Pippi Longstocking, The Phantom Tollbooth, Wind in the Willows, and The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe. In looking through these quickly, I don't think he is ready for these yet. Maybe after we work through Level 2 and 3 of the Wand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 5 issues of The Arrow. I picked out books that I know my son is interested in and that I thought would be easier. How To Train Your Dragon, Pippi Longstocking, The Phantom Tollbooth, Wind in the Willows, and The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe. In looking through these quickly, I don't think he is ready for these yet. Maybe after we work through Level 2 and 3 of the Wand. Yes - this is the thing I've found about Bravewriter. The materials are deceptively simple. The Arrow looks like it's going to be easy at first glance, but it's actually not. They should really put samples of the upper levels of The Wand on there. Yet another example of BW doing a bad job of explaining itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ByGrace3 Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 So for someone who is curious and really wants writing to be organic and integrated across the curriculum, particularly to literature, is the Writers Jungle enough? Are the Arrow and Boomerang and all of those "extras"? or are they essential? I have the Arrow for Ginger Pye. I admit I don't really get it, but I haven't spent much time looking at it, and of course I have not read TWJ. I am trying to decide between BW and WWE text for third grade next year. BW appeals to me but I still don't think I "get" it. I want to get TWJ but it is expensive and I want to have a better idea of the BW lifestyle and what it looks like before I commit. Also, while I want writing across the curriculum and tied to our lit, I want to do formal grammar and spelling separately. Is that doable? The idea of poetry teas sound delightful, and after 1.5 yrs of dd crying through WWE narration questions, I really need a change. My dd really loves writing, and is very creative. I am glad she hasn't equated her comprehension issues with writing. ;) Hope I am not hijacking OP! :) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheres Toto Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Yes - this is the thing I've found about Bravewriter. The materials are deceptively simple. The Arrow looks like it's going to be easy at first glance, but it's actually not. They should really put samples of the upper levels of The Wand on there. Yet another example of BW doing a bad job of explaining itself. They really should put more samples for the Wand. Looking at the sample on there, I thought the Wand would be WAY too easy for my son. But looking at level 2 and 3, it should be fine. Even the Arrow sample wasn't representative IMO. I ordered some of the easier books available and they all are much more complicated that the Ginger Pye sample shows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 They really should put more samples for the Wand. Looking at the sample on there, I thought the Wand would be WAY too easy for my son. But looking at level 2 and 3, it should be fine. Even the Arrow sample wasn't representative IMO. I ordered some of the easier books available and they all are much more complicated that the Ginger Pye sample shows. Agreed. And the difficulty of the book for The Arrow doesn't necessarily equal the difficulty of the dictations and concepts. Like, I saw that Science Verse and Math Curse were one this year, but I'll bet they weren't easier than the one about Harry Potter, for example. So even looking at the book lists for The Wand might be misleading. I mean, it includes some picture books in the upper levels of The Wand, but just because a child can read the picture books easily doesn't mean the corresponding work will be equally easy. If anything, it's a case of taking a book the child is going to feel comfortable with because they find it easy and using it to explore harder concepts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 So for someone who is curious and really wants writing to be organic and integrated across the curriculum, particularly to literature, is the Writers Jungle enough? Are the Arrow and Boomerang and all of those "extras"? or are they essential? I have the Arrow for Ginger Pye. I admit I don't really get it, but I haven't spent much time looking at it, and of course I have not read TWJ. I am trying to decide between BW and WWE text for third grade next year. BW appeals to me but I still don't think I "get" it. I want to get TWJ but it is expensive and I want to have a better idea of the BW lifestyle and what it looks like before I commit. Also, while I want writing across the curriculum and tied to our lit, I want to do formal grammar and spelling separately. Is that doable? The idea of poetry teas sound delightful, and after 1.5 yrs of dd crying through WWE narration questions, I really need a change. My dd really loves writing, and is very creative. I am glad she hasn't equated her comprehension issues with writing. ;) Hope I am not hijacking OP! :) Yes, TWJ is enough and everything else is supplemental. I don't think anyone should spend on The Wand, Arrow or Boomerang (or the new Jot It Down or the forthcoming next one in that series) until they've read TWJ and decided that they like the way she's suggesting to do things. Get it with the HSBC deal if you can. Really, even if you decide to go with WWE, it has the potential to enrich and change how you approach dictation and copywork with WWE. I think her take on narration in particular is different from SWB's in WWE and for anyone who finds TWTM's style of narration stilted or difficult, BW may help. You can do grammar and spelling separately. However, part of the idea behind BW is that you incorporate grammar and spelling into those dictation passages and teach them that way. But it's very flexible, as everyone is saying. We do some light grammar on the side as well and one of my ds can't spell to save his life so he's doing AAS because he really needs to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkl Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 So, would Bravewriter/TWJ be considered Charlotte Mason-inspired? We use Jot it Down, and my ds loves the writing projects, but I admit I haven't shelled out the money yet for TWJ, so I don't have a big picture view... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 So, would Bravewriter/TWJ be considered Charlotte Mason-inspired? We use Jot it Down, and my ds loves the writing projects, but I admit I haven't shelled out the money yet for TWJ, so I don't have a big picture view... Yes. It's definitely not CM, but I would call it CM-inspired, at least at the foundations. TWJ has several CM quotes in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jess4879 Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Yes, TWJ is enough and everything else is supplemental. I don't think anyone should spend on The Wand, Arrow or Boomerang (or the new Jot It Down or the forthcoming next one in that series) until they've read TWJ and decided that they like the way she's suggesting to do things. Get it with the HSBC deal if you can. Really, even if you decide to go with WWE, it has the potential to enrich and change how you approach dictation and copywork with WWE. I think her take on narration in particular is different from SWB's in WWE and for anyone who finds TWTM's style of narration stilted or difficult, BW may help. You can do grammar and spelling separately. However, part of the idea behind BW is that you incorporate grammar and spelling into those dictation passages and teach them that way. But it's very flexible, as everyone is saying. We do some light grammar on the side as well and one of my ds can't spell to save his life so he's doing AAS because he really needs to. Do you know how often BW is on HSBC? I am going to order The Writer's Jungle, but I don't want to miss the discounted prices for the other elements, assuming I love it as much as I think I will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ByGrace3 Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Do you know how often BW is on HSBC? I am going to order The Writer's Jungle, but I don't want to miss the discounted prices for the other elements, assuming I love it as much as I think I will. I am not sure, but it has been continually in there for awhile. I would imagine there would be an announcement if it were to go off. I went ahead and bought it this week and am wading through it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudoMom Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 ETA: Oh, and keep in mind, Bravewriter isn't a laid out program that tells you just what to do. It's about creating language arts routines. So it's not for anyone who is looking for something scripted. However, I still maintain that The Writer's Jungle is a good enough book that it's worth reading regardless - it will just make you feel good about teaching writing. It will make you feel capable. :iagree: We aren't really using Bravewriter, but I bought it and found it very worthwhile to read. As a matter of fact, I need to put it in my stack of books to read for ideas/inspiration/how-to before I start planning for next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jess4879 Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 I am not sure, but it has been continually in there for awhile. I would imagine there would be an announcement if it were to go off. I went ahead and bought it this week and am wading through it... What are you thinking of it? I've done some reading on the website and I get messages via FB which have really inspired me. I am unsure about it being enough grammar though. We're toying between this and MCT.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ByGrace3 Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 What are you thinking of it? I've done some reading on the website and I get messages via FB which have really inspired me. I am unsure about it being enough grammar though. We're toying between this and MCT.... So far, I am intrigued. There are a few things that make me think our philosophies are very different so I am not sure about the whole "bravewriter lifestyle" for us, however, there is so much great information it has been an excellent read thus far. I do think it will be useful no matter what direction we take. However, I have no intention of it being our whole LA. I am looking at it to get some kind of writing routine for us, to take the drudgery out of the process, and to give me the skills to implement writing across the curriculum. I plan to continue with FLL and AAS. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pamela722 Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 Yes, TWJ is enough and everything else is supplemental. I don't think anyone should spend on The Wand, Arrow or Boomerang (or the new Jot It Down or the forthcoming next one in that series) until they've read TWJ and decided that they like the way she's suggesting to do things. Get it with the HSBC deal if you can. Really, even if you decide to go with WWE, it has the potential to enrich and change how you approach dictation and copywork with WWE. I think her take on narration in particular is different from SWB's in WWE and for anyone who finds TWTM's style of narration stilted or difficult, BW may help. You can do grammar and spelling separately. However, part of the idea behind BW is that you incorporate grammar and spelling into those dictation passages and teach them that way. But it's very flexible, as everyone is saying. We do some light grammar on the side as well and one of my ds can't spell to save his life so he's doing AAS because he really needs to. I realise this is an older thread but wanted to add to it.... I've just discovered Brave Writer and your blog posts have been so helpful along with this thread. I have been slowly weeding through Brave Writer's website and I'm looking at The Writing Jungle for my older child and Jot it Down for my youngest. It does say that Jot It Down is a stand alone product for those under 8. I've copied and pasted the info below so if anybody else is wondering about it, it's here. Jot It Down! can be used as a stand-alone product for your young writers. If your children are not yet 8 years old, you can wait to purchase The Writer's Jungle until they are handwriting and reading more easily. The Wand is our product that teaches writing (transcribing, spelling) and reading together. It makes a good companion to Jot It Down! (which focuses on original writing projects). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runningmom80 Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 I realise this is an older thread but wanted to add to it.... I've just discovered Brave Writer and your blog posts have been so helpful along with this thread. I have been slowly weeding through Brave Writer's website and I'm looking at The Writing Jungle for my older child and Jot it Down for my youngest. It does say that Jot It Down is a stand alone product for those under 8. I've copied and pasted the info below so if anybody else is wondering about it, it's here. Jot It Down! can be used as a stand-alone product for your young writers. If your children are not yet 8 years old, you can wait to purchase The Writer's Jungle until they are handwriting and reading more easily. The Wand is our product that teaches writing (transcribing, spelling) and reading together. It makes a good companion to Jot It Down! (which focuses on original writing projects). The Writer's Jungle is not a curricula like "Jot it Down," it's more of a writing manifesto. Older kids could do Faltering ownership or Partnership writing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 Yeah, I wasn't super impressed with Jot It Down, but my kids were too old for it when it came out. Since using Partnership Writing and Faltering Ownership, I'd say that's the best place to start with BW... Unless you're a big picture thinker, in which case, start with TWJ. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pamela722 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 The Writer's Jungle is not a curricula like "Jot it Down," it's more of a writing manifesto. Older kids could do Faltering ownership or Partnership writing. Yes, I do understand what the Writers Jungle is compared with Jot it Down. I only worded it the way I did because my older child is 10 and I want to learn how to teach them at all levels. I was mainly interested in The Writer's Jungle to help me assist my children in writing. To my understanding, it's a guide and not something I hand to my child to to on his/her own. That this book was the foundation to all the other books for Brave Writer. I looked at Jot it Down for my 4 year old (will be nearly 5 when we start) and my 7 year old. I wasn't looking to purchase any of the other books as I felt this would be a good start for us. I'm new at all this so please if my thoughts aren't correct, please feel free to lead me in the right direction. I need to purchase today or tomorrow for The Writer's Jungle as the price goes up after the first of Jan. There are a few that the price is increasing but Jot It Down wasn't on the list. Thanks again for the support x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunshineslp Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 I'm following too. It all seems confusing to me. I'm going to retread this thread. What's the reasons people choose this over IEW (or vice versa)? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pamela722 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Yeah, I wasn't super impressed with Jot It Down, but my kids were too old for it when it came out. Since using Partnership Writing and Faltering Ownership, I'd say that's the best place to start with BW... Unless you're a big picture thinker, in which case, start with TWJ. Thanks, this has been equally helpful. Will have a look at those. My big picture thinking for TWJ is to better understand what I need to do....not sure if that is a good "big picture though", lol It's still a bit of a minefield on the BW website. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runningmom80 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Thanks, this has been equally helpful. Will have a look at those. My big picture thinking for TWJ is to better understand what I need to do....not sure if that is a good "big picture though", lol It's still a bit of a minefield on the BW website. I think if you got one of the "home study guides," you will see the big picture, in broad terms. She kind of gives you the cliff's notes in the guides. IMO, TWJ is necessary once you have an upper elementary kid, and they are writing longer pieces. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 I picked this over IEW because I didn't want to impose formulaic writing on my DD. IEW is fine once kids are writing a bit, but very patterned; and so in my view it's more of an embellishment than a stand alone writing program. TWJ teaches how to teach writing. It does not teach writing per se; rather, it is a 'train the trainer' approach. It reminds me of the way that TWTM teaches how to teach literature and history, more so than a straight curriculum. It is absolutely outstanding in that regard, and although I would say our main writing curriculum was Writing Strands (and we used parts of several others here and there along the way) TWJ was the main book that gave me that crucial overview of how to teach writing. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackie Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 I looked at Jot it Down for my 4 year old (will be nearly 5 when we start) and my 7 year old. I wasn't looking to purchase any of the other books as I felt this would be a good start for us. I'm new at all this so please if my thoughts aren't correct, please feel free to lead me in the right direction. I need to purchase today or tomorrow for The Writer's Jungle as the price goes up after the first of Jan. I have TWJ and JiD. I started by buying TWJ, but it turned out not to be a great entry point for me. It covers a lot of ground, but is mostly aimed at parents of older kids who dislike writing or are very hesitant about their writing. I have an accelerated, and very asynchronous, five year old who absolutely loves to write, and TWJ just didn't resonate with me. JiD has been a pretty good fit for us. It's focus is definitely more on being able to organize thoughts on a basic level rather than on physically writing or making up independent stories. The projects themselves are fairly simple and the vast majority don't feel school-y, which is a good thing IMO. (I should probably pick up Partnership Writing to get a better feel for when we should move up.) It also covers the ideas in TWJ that directly apply to this stage and expands upon those ideas. After using JiD for a while, I have gone back and re-read TWJ. The ideas and path make more sense to me now, though the tone of encouraging reluctant writers still simply doesn't apply here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 I'm following too. It all seems confusing to me. I'm going to retread this thread. What's the reasons people choose this over IEW (or vice versa)? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Well, this is definitely an older thread! Since then a few newer BW products have come out - including Partnership Writing and Faltering Ownership, which are supplements that have a writing project a month. We've used both and I feel like they (and Jot It Down, the one before them) are much better entry points for most people than TWJ. I still think TWJ is awesome, but I can see now that I'm more of a big picture thinker and someone who likes to have a resource that gives ideas rather than concrete, laid out steps. Most people like a resource that goes the other way. And the project supplements do a great job explaining BW in a shorter way and geared toward the stage of writing that your child is in right at that moment, which is also helpful. Also, there's now two "in between" products for kids caught between stages for the literature and mechanics supplements - the Quiver of Arrows which takes easier Arrow books and shortens and guides more for the dictations for kids who have outgrown The Wand but aren't ready for the full Arrows yet. And similarly there's also the Pouch of Boomerangs - same concept but for kids who have outgrown the Arrow but aren't completely ready for the Boomerang yet. Another thing that has changed since this thread is that there are two forums for discussing BW online. The first is the BW Lifestyle Group on Facebook. It's a really good, friendly group and there are lots of good BW ideas and encouragement swapped. The other is the Homeschool Alliance - it's a pay forum where Julie posts articles and leads discussions. It's a little more like an online class you can drop in and out of as you wish. It's about more than BW - there's a lot in there about homeschooling in general, how to simplify, how to maintain strong relationships, good parenting, etc. etc. As for why someone would choose BW over other programs... BW is pretty different from something like IEW. Here's some of the differences I see between BW and other programs... Most programs have a grade or skill level and step by step path a child takes with specific skills and assignments. Skills are broken down into chunks and students learn each bit little by little. BW is much more spiral and instead asks families to just do the same types of things over and over in order to slowly gain more and more skills and confidence with writing. It's strong whole to parts in style - and Julie Bogart even says how you can't break writing down like that (I don't know if I fully agree that you can't, but I think it definitely hurts a lot of kids to try). Even with something like the project supplements that I mention above - you could have a student do the assignments again and again if they wanted (and some people do). The Arrow dictations have the book change, but a student is basically just practicing until she or he gets good enough that it's easy. This is really the difference between having a schedule of different things and having a BW style routine. BW is a "less is more" type program. Something like IEW pushes kids to write a lot. BW also has kids writing a good bit, but only pushes for a very few polished assignments. BW is also really a gentle and cuddly program - it emphasizes things like poetry teas and family movie nights with discussions. And it's flexible - the cuddlyness can be good for reluctant writers but it can also be great for building up average writers and letting motivated, natural writers go wild with support. BW focuses on honing a child's own voice. WWS and IEW come from the perspective that writing is like a different language that kids have to learn. BW comes from the idea that writing comes from our own spoken voice and that the best writing will happen when we help kids hone that voice and get it on paper. BW focuses on all writing together as one thing rather than separating academic and creative writing. A lot of the BW assignment ideas in the project supplements put the two together - for example, one of the Partnership assignments is to make a mail order catalog for history (so, for example, a catalog of weapons for medieval knights or a catalog of gear for cowboys or something along those lines... though ds did a catalog of stuff for fish in an underwater kingdom he imagined and other ds did a catalog of stuff for the last humans to leave Earth before the sun expanded). It's totally a creative assignment - kids can draw pictures (or cut and paste ones) and design the look of the catalog and make up crazy stuff that never existed and write about it. But it's also strangely formal and there's a lot of real writing in there - they have to think about voice - what voice will sell the products? They have to think about descriptions - what needs to go into the description so people can understand what it is? They have to think about the conventions of the catalog and how to fit their writing into those rules. A lot of BW assignments are sort of sneaky like this. Overall, I think BW can work for a lot of kids. And I think taking just a few of the BW ideas (the freewrites, the poetry teas, the projects, or anything that appeals to someone...) can work alongside another, more traditional program. I've said in other threads that the one profile of kid I think would struggle with a strong, overall BW approach is a kid who strongly needs things broken down parts to whole for learning. The heart of the BW approach is doing what's right for your own kid and being flexible, but I think most of the BW ideas and tricks and assignments wouldn't work well for a kid who needs things broken down all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunshineslp Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 So I could use WWE and BW? And for very young elementary, TWJ isn't necessary? Which of her books would you say to start with for 1-3 grade? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunshineslp Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Thanks! We posted at the same time, so I'll go back and write those down:) Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackie Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 I'm following too. It all seems confusing to me. I'm going to retread this thread. What's the reasons people choose this over IEW (or vice versa)? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk IEW is very similar to how I was taught writing in school. It is extremely structured, has strict rubrics for whether you follow "the rules", and generally not at all focused on creativity. I have read others say that the strict set of rules to follow gave their child confidence, but I can't imagine anything killing my daughter's love of storytelling and writing faster. BraveWriter's focus is very much on helping writers find their own voice and develop it. The emphasis is on enjoying language and writing while developing skills, and on training parents to be effective writing coaches. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunshineslp Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 (edited) Is there a point where strict rubrics are needed? Like an IEW type program? Maybe for high school? I like the BW philosophy but I'm definitely a step by step person so the "free flowing"-ness of BW scares me tad. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Edited December 30, 2015 by sunshineslp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runningmom80 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Is there a point where strict rubrics are needed? Like an IEW type program? Maybe for high school? I like the BW philosophy but I'm definitely a step by step person so the "free flowing"-ness of BW scares me tad. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I have not homeschooled a high schooler so take this for what it's worth. ( I did however get my BA in Creative Writing.) What really resonates with me about BW is the importance placed on developing the writer's voice. Now if we are talking about academic essay writing, perhaps a strict rubric is needed. However, I'm confident that I'll be able to teach this kind of writing within the BW lifestyle. By the time a child is in high school, I would imagine they could figure out how to do this on their own, if they have been writing freely up to this point. Again, I haven't actually done this, and there's a very good chance I'll be on here asking for help in 5 years. :lol: 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Is there a point where strict rubrics are needed? Like an IEW type program? Maybe for high school? I like the BW philosophy but I'm definitely a step by step person so the "free flowing"-ness of BW scares me tad. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk There's no point where BW requires strict IEW style rubrics. However, one of the goals of BW is that you spend basically most of a child's education slowly honing that voice and trying different types of writing. Then you get to high school and spend a little time helping a child fit their voice into the rules of the academic papers. The rules are definitely still seen as important - but they're not the focus of the process - they're something you deal with much closer to the end - both the end of a child's education (you start that focus in high school, not elementary school) and the end of the writing process for that individual paper (you need this to be a thesis paper, so you go through and check that it has followed the conventions and make revisions as needed). So instead of saying in order to learn this writing style, we're going to focus slowly on all these rules and write the way they want... it's saying in order to learn to write in this style, we're going to just learn how to write in general and then when it comes time to write in a certain way (a thesis essay, a research paper, a grant proposal, a legal brief, a letter to the editor, etc. etc.) then you'll be able to turn your writing voice toward that style. Does that make sense? It is a loosey goosey feeling program. However, there are ways to make it work for a box checker - sticking to your routine, writing it out, planning it out ahead of time, etc. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunshineslp Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Farrar you are very good at explaining it [emoji5] So I will order, just to get the discount, and hope I'll use it[emoji23] that makes total sense, right? Should I start with JiD and Wand? I haven't looked at HSBC yet so I'm not sure how it's packaged and sold (several levels or just pick and choose...) And thank you so much! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collins4 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 If you need encouragement for the Bravewriter "lifestyle" you should check out Julie on periscope. She is wonderful!! You can find all the old scopes at katch.me. Look for the enchanted homeschool one to start with. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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