Would anyone recommend AoPS Pre-Alg with videos for an average student?

[HappyGrace]

I've always heard it's for accelerated, but the videos look like they explain it very well in a conceptual way (which is what she needs now-to be shown conceptually rather than in formulaic manner.) And the written material seems to explain well too.

 

What do you think about it for a very average student?

[AimeeM]

I'm interested too. While Autumn is accelerated in math, she is dyslexic and I worry about using the book on its own - the videos may help? Not sure.

[dereksurfs]

Interersting question. I look forward to hearing the responses. From what has been previously reported here by quite a few parents it is not for a child who doesn't really enjoy wrestling with math vs. having things explained to them first. We did experiment with their Alcumus program and my son grew quickly frustrated with it and he usually enjoys math for the most part. This 'Discovery' approach might be a very subjective love it/hate it kind of experience.

Edited August 22, 2012 by dereksurfs

[Jen500]

I don't think the accelerated/average student is as important as whether or not your child likes how AoPS presents the material.

[dereksurfs]

I don't think the accelerated/average student is as important as whether or not your child likes how AoPS presents the material.

 

That's a good point regarding the AoPS Discovery approach. Though I have heard from some parents who use it in a heavily modified way. For example the instruction could be presented first - perish the thought. :tongue_smilie: Then the text and questions could follow. While far from their original intent this may just work better for some children. At that point however it makes one wonder if it would simply be better to use another program entirely.

[Julie of KY]

I think an average kid could use the book, but not without help at my home. My kids need someone to hold their hand, help them wrestle with the hard problems, look askance at things that are completely new, etc. They need someone to look at what they are doing and say, I think you need a little more help in this area (then I pull my NEM book and do a few problems).

 

Even my mathy kids would have trouble tackling it on their own.

[HappyGrace]

Even my mathy kids would have trouble tackling it on their own.

 

ACK-so that means my non-mathy dd even with my help would prbly pass out! (the blind leading the blind-lol)

[Alte Veste Academy]

I don't think the accelerated/average student is as important as whether or not your child likes how AoPS presents the material.

 

:iagree:100%

 

AoPS is tailor-made for kids who enjoy a challenge and the feeling of being puzzled and who hate being spoon-fed their learning. Mindset (diligence, inquisitiveness, patience, pride in not being told the answer...) matters more than inherent math ability for this particular curriculum choice, I think.

[HappyGrace]

who enjoy....the feeling of being puzzled

 

Yes, we're DEFINITELY out then! She hates that feeling! :tongue_smilie:

[Alte Veste Academy]

Yes, we're DEFINITELY out then! She hates that feeling! :tongue_smilie:

 

LOL

 

ME TOO!! :lol:

[dereksurfs]

Yes, we're DEFINITELY out then! She hates that feeling! :tongue_smilie:

 

Yeah, I think there is enough info on this forum about the AoPS approach to know its not the best fit for us either. This would not work with our family since my wife homeschools during the day while I'm at work. And math is not her strong subject nor does she have the kind of time needed since we have younger children she works with as well.

[melmichigan]

 

AoPS is tailor-made for kids who enjoy a challenge and the feeling of being puzzled...

 

and who enjoy the ability to continually puzzle their parents with homework problems that said parents have no idea what to do with <<<insert evil grin>>>

[8filltheheart]

I don't think the accelerated/average student is as important as whether or not your child likes how AoPS presents the material.

 

:iagree:100%

 

AoPS is tailor-made for kids who enjoy a challenge and the feeling of being puzzled and who hate being spoon-fed their learning. Mindset (diligence, inquisitiveness, patience, pride in not being told the answer...) matters more than inherent math ability for this particular curriculum choice, I think.

 

I have no idea about the pre-alg program since we have never used it, but for the upper level courses, I disagree. If these courses do not require strength in math ability, then neither does AIME http://amc.maa.org/e-exams/e7-aime/aime.shtml or USAMO http://amc.maa.org/usamo/usamo.shtml since many of the problems in the texts are actually pulled directly from those tests or are equivalent type problems. While I agree that acceleration in math levels is not required, strong math skills are an absolute necessity.

[Alte Veste Academy]

I have no idea about the pre-alg program since we have never used it, but for the upper level courses, I disagree. If these courses do not require strength in math ability, then neither does AIME http://amc.maa.org/e-exams/e7-aime/aime.shtml or USAMO http://amc.maa.org/usamo/usamo.shtml since many of the problems in the texts are actually pulled directly from those tests or are equivalent type problems. While I agree that acceleration in math levels is not required, strong math skills are an absolute necessity.

 

Oh, I didn't mean to imply that it isn't difficult math. But I personally think an average student who likes a puzzle/challenge will fare better than a great student who likes spoon-fed lessons. I did very well in math in school, definitely above average, but I would have hated (and potentially given up with) a curriculum like AoPS. I also know firsthand that it is possible for a child who appears average to actually be quite gifted in math. Without the right level of challenge, that gift could go undiscovered, maybe forever.

[8filltheheart]

Oh, I didn't mean to imply that it isn't difficult math. But I personally think an average student who likes a puzzle/challenge will fare better than a great student who likes spoon-fed lessons. I did very well in math in school, definitely above average, but I would have hated (and potentially given up with) a curriculum like AoPS. I also know firsthand that it is possible for a child who appears average to actually be quite gifted in math. Without the right level of challenge, that gift could go undiscovered, maybe forever.

 

Closet strong math student.....great. Completely avg math student regardless of how they learn......will probably sink.

 

Yes, the approach is different and it does take a student that needs/likes the approach to get the most out of it. But, it is also more. It is difficult math and it takes strong, not avg, math skills to be able to do the problems.

[SkateLeft]

Closet strong math student.....great. Completely avg math student regardless of how they learn......will probably sink.

 

:iagree:

 

My ds has used AoPS prealgebra and is finishing up Intro to Algebra.

 

Another thing to consider is that the text is heavily language based. A child needs to be able to read well and handle the textual explanations, IMHO.

 

The videos support the text, but they aren't a complete instructional tool. They're just a supplement. There's so much more to the text than is covered in the videos.

[Blossom'sGirl]

I am using AOPS with my 7th grade ds this year. We just started so I don't have any idea how it will work out. I don't consider any of my guys math geniuses, but I have tried to give them all a strong background in different types of math presentation which I think helps. This particular ds did Rightstart math from K-4 then CLE math for 5th and 6th (which he REALLY did not want to do this year). He has also done books 2-6 from Singapore's Challenging Workbook Problems as a supplement. He has also done some LOF ,which he really don't care for, over the summer.

 

I still think Rightstart did a great job at presenting math concepts in a way that kids can follow. I also do not regret his CLE years as they taught him discipline and forced him to memorize conversions and formulas. CLE also gave me a break from direct teaching when I really needed extra time with his younger brothers. AOPS is going to need more hand holding and its lack of quizzes/ tests is hard for me to get used to.

 

Alcumus is his favorite part of the program, and I would highly recommend using this free service if you decide to use this curriculum. I am also having him watch the videos because they are fun. He keeps saying that Richard R. reminds him of Steve from Blue's Clues.

[regentrude]

Yeah, I think there is enough info on this forum about the AoPS approach to know its not the best fit for us either. This would not work with our family since my wife homeschools during the day while I'm at work. And math is not her strong subject nor does she have the kind of time needed since we have younger children she works with as well.

 

I have not used the prealgebra (did not exist when we needed it), but the subsequent books are written to the student and do not require the presence of a teacher. Since the student can just work through them, they require no lesson planning or scheduling and are not time consuming for the parent at all.

I work and homeschool, and my kids work independently with the AoPS texts (starting with Intro to Algebra in 6th grade). It works very well, and I deal with questions and clarifications in the afternoon after work. We always get the solution manual, and the kids can self-check their work.

 

(I am not trying to talk you into it; there may be other reasons why the program is not a good fit - but the situation you mentioned does not pose the obstacle.)

Edited August 23, 2012 by regentrude

[Luckymama]

AoPS Pre-Algebra is also written to the student :)

[jennynd]

DS is using AOPS intro to Algebra, The style is similar to PreA.

I do have my DS watch video but only after he complete the section. I think it help him to clear up the concepts

[dereksurfs]

I have not used the prealgebra (did not exist when we needed it), but the subsequent books are written to the student and do not require the presence of a teacher. Since the student can just work through them, they require no lesson planning or scheduling and are not time consuming for the parent at all.

I work and homeschool, and my kids work independently with the AoPS texts (starting with Intro to Algebra in 6th grade). It works very well, and I deal with questions and clarifications in the afternoon after work. We always get the solution manual, and the kids can self-check their work.

 

(I am not trying to talk you into it; there may be other reasons why the program is not a good fit - but the situation you mentioned does not pose the obstacle.)

 

regentrude, you bring up some interesting points based on your own experiences. From my limited perspective, not having used AoPS yet, I think this may be true for some students but not all, especially if the child may be considered somewhat average (whatever that means). I base this upon what Julie has stated above for her children in AoPS currently:

 

I think an average kid could use the book, but not without help at my home.My kids need someone to hold their hand, help them wrestle with the hard problems, look askance at things that are completely new, etc. They need someone to look at what they are doing and say, I think you need a little more help in this area (then I pull my NEM book and do a few problems).

 

Even my mathy kids would have trouble tackling it on their own.

 

I think this may be an individual thing where some children could simply listen the lectures, do alcumus, read the book and then go about doing the problems more independently. While others who struggle more will need more intervention/hand holding along the way. Since the problems are known to be difficult without much practice or review I could imagine help/guidance being needed. In your case you are able to provide this help after work. And your kiddos seem pretty independent, able to wait until you get off work for the help they need. Hmm, I guess I could do that as well. I'm just not sure my wife or children would be comfortable not being able to address problems as they arrise at home. Being ok with not being able to figure something out and then going back to it later is another skill which is very good to have. But not all children have developed it at the younger ages.

Edited August 23, 2012 by dereksurfs

[regentrude]

I think this may be an individual thing where some children could simply listen the lectures, do alcumus, read the book and then go about doing the problems more independently.

 

 

Ah, but this is not how the process is meant to work! The point of AoPS is to have the kids wrestle with the problems before listening to any lectures or reading anything in the book. They are encouraged to try independent problem solving. Having a teacher/parent present who has the math knowledge to solve the problem and can "help" defeats the purpose, because it turns what is supposed to be a discovery into direct instruction.

 

One can certainly use AoPS that way, but it is not the intent of the program. If my kid sits and puzzles over one question for 30 minutes, that is exactly what is supposed to happen - instead of a parent stepping in after five minutes and "suggesting" a particular approach. So, being unavailable during math time is actually a good thing!

[dereksurfs]

Ah, but this is not how the process is meant to work! The point of AoPS is to have the kids wrestle with the problems before listening to any lectures or reading anything in the book. They are encouraged to try independent problem solving. Having a teacher/parent present who has the math knowledge to solve the problem and can "help" defeats the purpose, because it turns what is supposed to be a discovery into direct instruction.

 

One can certainly use AoPS that way, but it is not the intent of the program. If my kid sits and puzzles over one question for 30 minutes, that is exactly what is supposed to happen - instead of a parent stepping in after five minutes and "suggesting" a particular approach. So, being unavailable during math time is actually a good thing!

 

Yes, I can see that this approach is quite different from conventional math instruction. The idea of struggling over one question for 30 minutes prior to any instruction while fun or challenging for some may be torture or simply not work for others. Does that mean AoPS is not for the later group of kids who may need help after lets say 10 or 15 minutes? Maybe, maybe not.

 

If one is to struggle for 30 minutes and still cannot solve then what? I guess I'm just trying to understand the AoPS way.

 

Lastly what of the families who use AoPS more loosely vs. by-the-book per se. Would you still consider some value to be found there? I've heard some who like the material but not necessarily the approach for certain children.

Edited August 23, 2012 by dereksurfs

[Blossom'sGirl]

I just wanted to clarify my perspective on hand-holding. We just did the first lesson yesterday and it is not a book I can hand to him and say, "Here you go, do lesson 1." We will need to develop a "groove" on how much time to spend on the lesson, Alcumus, and the videos. DS is willing to actually sit and wrestle with problems as long as he knows how much or how long he needs to do it for. Unless my next ds changes dramatically, this will not work for him. He has a very low frustration level and needs concepts spelled out to him.

[snowbeltmom]

Lastly what of the families who use AoPS more loosely vs. by-the-book per se. Would you still consider some value to be found there? I've heard some who like the material but not necessarily the approach for certain children.

I guess my family would fall into the camp of not by-the-book. My dd started with the AoPS pre-algebra book last year at age 10. There is no way I could have simply handed her the book and said, "Go at it." We work together on the section chapter problems: I read the questions to her while she is working on the white board. After she completes the section chapter problems and we have gone over the comments in the book, then she watches the videos. She then does the practice problems and Alcumus alone. My middle child is just at the point where he is working alone in the book, but last year I used the same approach that I am using with my dd.

[....]

I guess my family would fall into the camp of not by-the-book. My dd started with the AoPS pre-algebra book last year at age 10. There is no way I could have simply handed her the book and said, "Go at it." We work together on the section chapter problems: I read the questions to her while she is working on the white board. After she completes the section chapter problems and we have gone over the comments in the book, then she watches the videos. She then does the practice problems and Alcumus alone. My middle child is just at the point where he is working alone in the book, but last year I used the same approach that I am using with my dd.

 

I just started (about a month ago - and very cautiously) their pre-algebra with a 10 yro (soon to be 11). I tried very hard to steer her towards Jacobs' Algebra, but she really liked the AOPS pre-algebra book/video. I even told her that it would be ok if she took longer than one school year to get through the pre-algebra book. Also, I warned her that it would be "math weightlifting". The problems are going to be very difficult and she might not be able to solve all of them without help (and that was OK).

 

So far, it's been fine. She really likes that 24 game at the beginning of the chapters. This week, she liked one problem so much that she made up several on her own just like it, took a picture of them with my cellphone and emailed them to her dad at work (my kids are a little weird :D ).

 

Was your daughter able to finish the book in one school year? I wasn't going to add to this thread, but I was curious when I saw your post. How did the year go? She must've liked it, because it looks like she's using their Algebra now? How's the algebra? Is the textbook lay-out similar to the pre-algebra textbook?

 

I still might buy Jacobs as back-up - just in case.

[dereksurfs]

I guess my family would fall into the camp of not by-the-book. My dd started with the AoPS pre-algebra book last year at age 10. There is no way I could have simply handed her the book and said, "Go at it." We work together on the section chapter problems: I read the questions to her while she is working on the white board. After she completes the section chapter problems and we have gone over the comments in the book, then she watches the videos. She then does the practice problems and Alcumus alone. My middle child is just at the point where he is working alone in the book, but last year I used the same approach that I am using with my dd.

Snowbeltmom, thanks for posting. I was hoping to hear from some who do things little differently than the prescibed way. I also notice you have all three children in AoPS. It looks like you adapted a method that has worked best for your family.

 

Just out of curriousity do you go through the books on your own or do you have them in the online classes or both? The reason I ask is because the classes seem to be a breakneck speeds which are probably fine for many. However if a child needs to slow down and really work on a concept more it might be difficult to then catch up.

Edited August 23, 2012 by dereksurfs

[snowbeltmom]

 

 

Was your daughter able to finish the book in one school year? I wasn't going to add to this thread, but I was curious when I saw your post. How did the year go? She must've liked it, because it looks like she's using their Algebra now? How's the algebra? Is the textbook lay-out similar to the pre-algebra textbook?

 

My dd finished the book along with the Alcumus topics this summer. Some of the geometry sections were the most difficult for her. She is actually going to be taking the pre-algebra II class this fall because she enjoys the online lectures and working on the challenge sets. However, I have read other posts that the format has changed from last year, so I'll have to see if the online class is still worth it.

 

She is just finishing Chapter 2 in the Introduction to Algebra book. (The layout in the algebra book is the same as the layout in the pre-algebra. Actually, the layout is the same in all of the books.) I am also using the Keys to Algebra series to give her more practice with the mechanics. The plan right now is to work through Chapter 8 and then move into the beginning chapters in the C&P and Number Theory books. We'll see how that plan works out, since I am already making modifications to the kids' plans 4 only days into the school year.:tongue_smilie:

[regentrude]

Yes, I can see that this approach is quite different from conventional math instruction. The idea of struggling over one question for 30 minutes prior to any instruction while fun or challenging for some may be torture or simply not work for others. Does that mean AoPS is not for the later group of kids who may need help after lets say 10 or 15 minutes? Maybe, maybe not.

 

If one is to struggle for 30 minutes and still cannot solve then what? I guess I'm just trying to understand the AoPS way.

 

The problems that begin the chapter are posed, the student is supposed to make a serious effort in solving them without help - but then the problem solutions are explained in detail and used to introduce the new concept ina formal way. So, a student who really can not get the problem will eventually turn to the solution which is printed immediately after the problem set and written in such a way that the thought process is explained. (Some people consider AoPS "too wordy", because the explanations use English language and words, not just formulas - but it bears to keep in mind that the book has to "say" all the words a teacher would when explaining a situation in a classroom situation.)

 

Lastly what of the families who use AoPS more loosely vs. by-the-book per se. Would you still consider some value to be found there? I've heard some who like the material but not necessarily the approach for certain children.

It is certainly valuable because this is a program that focuses on a thorough conceptual understanding and not a memorization of half-understood algorithms, so it can serve as a supplement for these students. It just loses the feature that makes it unique.

 

ETA: Just a warning: at least in the Intro to Algebra book, some of the exercises the student has to complete after the instruction are rather time consuming, and a student who expects to be done with a problem in ten minutes will be frustrated, because he simply has the wrong expectations. Some problems are complex and require a much longer time of thinking; a parent who "helps" by shortening the process does not do the student a favor.

Edited August 23, 2012 by regentrude

[regentrude]

Just out of curriousity do you go through the books on your own or do you have them in the online classes or both? The reason I ask is because the classes seem to be a breakneck speeds which are probably fine for many. However if a child needs to slow down and really work on a concept more it might be difficult to then catch up.

 

I am not snowbeltmom, but want to chime in just t o give you an idea:

we only use the books on our own, because of the speed with which the classes progress. I believe in taking our time for math and progressing at whatever rate necessary for mastery.

My DD completed the Intro to Algebra book in 7th grade in one very long school year (she had to finish over the summer).

My DS completed the algebra 1 portion of the text, i.e. chapters 1 through 12, in 6th grade in one school year and the next three chapters in one semester in 7th grade. We then took a semester to work through counting and probability. He now resumed Intro to Algebra as an 8th grader to work chapters 16-22 and then move to intermediate algebra to complete the equivalent of an algebra 2 course.

 

The following texts (Intro to geometry, Intermediate Algebra, Precalculus) are shorter and more easily doable in one school year. We are currently half-way through Calculus, so I'll be happy to answer any questions you might have about the books.

[snowbeltmom]

Just out of curriousity do you go through the books on your own or do you have them in the online classes or both? The reason I ask is because the classes seem to be a breakneck speeds which are probably fine for many. However if a child needs to slow down and really work on a concept more it might be difficult to then catch up.

Yes to all three options::D

 

My oldest has taken all of the online classes except for calculus. The classes move at breakneck speed and my son needed to devote 2+ hours a day to the class in order to keep up. He would spend all day doing math and science if I let him, so he never complained about spending so much time on math.

 

I enrolled my middle son in the online algebra class two years ago, and it was a disaster. He was overwhelmed with the pace, and didn't enjoy having to spend 2+ hours a day to keep up. I began working with him and after we had completed the chapters, I wanted him to then take the class online. He didn't like that approach because he said it was boring when he already knew how to do the problems. He is taking the computer class online this fall, but I don't foresee him taking an online math class.

 

My dd took the 1st pre-algebra class that was offered last fall. We were always working ahead in the book, so she was very familiar with the topic when it was presented in the online class. She enjoyed this approach because she liked competing with the other kids to see if she could be the first response on the message board. (My middle son would have hated this). So with my dd (unless the online classes are different than when oldest took them) I plan on her taking the online class after she has worked through the material with me.

 

Imo, the approach I am using with my dd is the approach taken by most of the kids enrolled in the online core classes, since most of the AoPS kids are traditionally schooled, have been exposed to the topics in their classrooms and use the AoPS classes in order to delve deeper into the topic.

[Alte Veste Academy]

Yes to all three options::D

 

My oldest has taken all of the online classes except for calculus. The classes move at breakneck speed and my son needed to devote 2+ hours a day to the class in order to keep up. He would spend all day doing math and science if I let him, so he never complained about spending so much time on math.

 

I enrolled my middle son in the online algebra class two years ago, and it was a disaster. He was overwhelmed with the pace, and didn't enjoy having to spend 2+ hours a day to keep up. I began working with him and after we had completed the chapters, I wanted him to then take the class online. He didn't like that approach because he said it was boring when he already knew how to do the problems. He is taking the computer class online this fall, but I don't foresee him taking an online math class.

 

My dd took the 1st pre-algebra class that was offered last fall. We were always working ahead in the book, so she was very familiar with the topic when it was presented in the online class. She enjoyed this approach because she liked competing with the other kids to see if she could be the first response on the message board. (My middle son would have hated this). So with my dd (unless the online classes are different than when oldest took them) I plan on her taking the online class after she has worked through the material with me.

 

Imo, the approach I am using with my dd is the approach taken by most of the kids enrolled in the online core classes, since most of the AoPS kids are traditionally schooled, have been exposed to the topics in their classrooms and use the AoPS classes in order to delve deeper into the topic.

 

I didn't ask the question but I sure appreciate this answer. Thanks! I see incredible differences in how my kids approach math, challenges, frustration, etc. It is equal parts fascinating and :willy_nilly:.

[Alte Veste Academy]

It is certainly valuable because this is a program that focuses on a thorough conceptual understanding and not a memorization of half-understood algorithms, so it can serve as a supplement for these students. It just loses the feature that makes it unique.

 

Good food for thought. :)

[8filltheheart]

 

Lastly what of the families who use AoPS more loosely vs. by-the-book per se. Would you still consider some value to be found there? I've heard some who like the material but not necessarily the approach for certain children.

 

I have no answer for the first part b/c we haven't used AoPS loosely. But, here is my view after been through multiple books. Others may have completely different experiences w/their families.

 

My ds jumped into AoPS after he had already taken alg 2. He was in 8th grade and enrolled in their alg 3 course. At this pt he was totally beyond the abilities of everyone in our house (even dh who is an engineer......too many yrs between that sort of math and now. ;)) Our ds did read the book and wrestle through everything over the next few yrs on his own. Math was a major time commitment. 30 mins for a problem in the long run on the short side in estimation. There were challenge set problems that he might in reality chew on for days. He could and sometimes would email his teacher for help, but help from AoPS comes in form of questions to think about and most definitely not in the form of instruction.

 

Now.....that is my perspective from a student using the higher level courses. There were no videos, no alcumus. All he had were the books and class (again, guided questioning,not direct teaching.) So, from his perspective, he experienced direct instruction for alg 1, geo, and alg 2 (it was at this pt we discovered AoPS). He took from there on up through cal via AoPS. AoPS fits him. He is leap yrs beyond his older brother (a chemical engineer) in understanding math theory.

 

(and hsi brother is definitely no slouch in math. However, oldest ds took math courses that focused on applied math. AoPS is more focused on math proofs. For oldest ds's career, applied math has not short-changed him at all. The main hind-sight regret I have with him is wondering if being exposed to AoPS would have opened up other possible paths that he never considered.......no harm done!! He has a great career. It is more just a contemplative wondering than any serious regret.)

 

Flip to our middle dd who took alg 1 in the spring. She was already solid in alg prior to the course. I had attempted to do AoPS w/her at the end of the prior school yr and she really didn't like the book. She finished Foerster's alg 1 in a little over a semester, so we enrolled her in AoPS just to see if she might actually want to pursue that format. (she is an incredibly mature young lady and equally as gifted as her brother.)

 

She ultimately decided against going w/the AoPS format. She decided that she does not want to devote that kind of time to math and that she prefers direct-instruction. I have zero problems w/that. All students do NOT need the level of theoretical math understanding and problem-solving required from the AoPS approach. She is using the extra time she has in her schedule to add in a 3rd foreign language........which suits her preferences and long term goals better.

 

So.....that is how we have gone about making the decisions. Ds wants a career in theoretical physics and hrs spent on contemplating possible paths to solutions is **how** he thinks and something he personally enjoys. Dd, who is academically capable of going the AoPS route, loves literature, languages, and nature study. Solid, challenging math is definitely appropriate for her, but learning via direct instruction is not short-changing her. It is simply a different path.

 

FWIW, I personally would not use AoPS by modifying to be a direct-instruction text. There are excellent texts that already do that w/o placing the burden on homeschool teacher to do it.

 

HTH

[dereksurfs]

I have no answer for the first part b/c we haven't used AoPS loosely. But, here is my view after been through multiple books. Others may have completely different experiences w/their families.

 

My ds jumped into AoPS after he had already taken alg 2. He was in 8th grade and enrolled in their alg 3 course. At this pt he was totally beyond the abilities of everyone in our house (even dh who is an engineer......too many yrs between that sort of math and now. ;)) Our ds did read the book and wrestle through everything over the next few yrs on his own. Math was a major time commitment. 30 mins for a problem in the long run on the short side in estimation. There were challenge set problems that he might in reality chew on for days. He could and sometimes would email his teacher for help, but help from AoPS comes in form of questions to think about and most definitely not in the form of instruction.

 

Now.....that is my perspective from a student using the higher level courses. There were no videos, no alcumus. All he had were the books and class (again, guided questioning,not direct teaching.) So, from his perspective, he experienced direct instruction for alg 1, geo, and alg 2 (it was at this pt we discovered AoPS). He took from there on up through cal via AoPS. AoPS fits him. He is leap yrs beyond his older brother (a chemical engineer) in understanding math theory.

 

(and hsi brother is definitely no slouch in math. However, oldest ds took math courses that focused on applied math. AoPS is more focused on math proofs. For oldest ds's career, applied math has not short-changed him at all. The main hind-sight regret I have with him is wondering if being exposed to AoPS would have opened up other possible paths that he never considered.......no harm done!! He has a great career. It is more just a contemplative wondering than any serious regret.)

 

Flip to our middle dd who took alg 1 in the spring. She was already solid in alg prior to the course. I had attempted to do AoPS w/her at the end of the prior school yr and she really didn't like the book. She finished Foerster's alg 1 in a little over a semester, so we enrolled her in AoPS just to see if she might actually want to pursue that format. (she is an incredibly mature young lady and equally as gifted as her brother.)

 

She ultimately decided against going w/the AoPS format. She decided that she does not want to devote that kind of time to math and that she prefers direct-instruction. I have zero problems w/that. All students do NOT need the level of theoretical math understanding and problem-solving required from the AoPS approach. She is using the extra time she has in her schedule to add in a 3rd foreign language........which suits her preferences and long term goals better.

 

So.....that is how we have gone about making the decisions. Ds wants a career in theoretical physics and hrs spent on contemplating possible paths to solutions is **how** he thinks and something he personally enjoys. Dd, who is academically capable of going the AoPS route, loves literature, languages, and nature study. Solid, challenging math is definitely appropriate for her, but learning via direct instruction is not short-changing her. It is simply a different path.

 

FWIW, I personally would not use AoPS by modifying to be a direct-instruction text. There are excellent texts that already do that w/o placing the burden on homeschool teacher to do it.

 

HTH

 

Thanks for sharing your children's experiences 8Fill along with your perspective on AoPS vs. direct instruction. I am considering Foerster's alg 1 for my ds. So I'm curious what your dd plans to do after Foerster alg 1?

[8filltheheart]

Thanks for sharing your children's experiences 8Fill along with your perspective on AoPS vs. direct instruction. I am considering Foerster's alg 1 for my ds. So I'm curious what your dd plans to do after Foerster alg 1?

 

This yr she is using Houghton Mifflin's Geometry (the textbook used by Chalkdust. I have used it w/other siblings). ETA: She is also using and enjoying Patty Paper Geometry

 

The rest of her math sequence will probably be Foerster's alg 2 and pre-cal in 9th and 10th. Either Stewart or Larson's Cal (we already own both) for AP cal AB or BC in 11th. I'm not sure what she will do in 12th. As far as AB or BC and 12th grade math, we are just going to have to wait until she has lived a few more yrs and formed a better vision of what she wants to do with her future. Those 2 yrs will be more influenced by her personal goals.

 

At the high school level, my kids have a lot of control over what they study. As they plan their future (selecting colleges, majors, careers, etc), 11th and 12th adapt around those goals.

Edited August 24, 2012 by 8FillTheHeart

[daijobu]

I've always heard it's for accelerated, but the videos look like they explain it very well in a conceptual way (which is what she needs now-to be shown conceptually rather than in formulaic manner.) And the written material seems to explain well too.

 

What do you think about it for a very average student?

 

I agree the videos are very helpful (and more entertaining than Khan, IMO!).

 

I think if your average student is guided by a mathy parent or tutor, and is willing to work hard and take some risks, she can be successful with AOPS.

 

Good luck!

[besroma]

Taking notes.......

[letsplaymath]

I agree the videos are very helpful (and more entertaining than Khan, IMO!).

 

I think if your average student is guided by a mathy parent or tutor, and is willing to work hard and take some risks, she can be successful with AOPS.

:iagree: I think what is most needed (besides a solid understanding of elementary arithmetic) is the willingness to give something a try and learn from mistakes.

 

The textbook is "discovery approach" but students are not expected to discover for themselves the whole history of mathematics! Everything is thoroughly explained in the lessons. Each lesson starts with problems for the student to try, but there is NO SHAME in saying, "I got this problem but I can't get that one. Let's see how they do it..." and then reading the lesson. The discovery problems serve to prime the brain, but a student who could get them all right without help should be working in a higher level book.

 

Ditto for the homework sets. If a student is willing to risk giving it a try knowing that he/she will not figure them all out (and willing to study the solutions to learn from the problems that stump him/her), then I'd say "Go for it!" It's a wonderful math program.