pfamilygal Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 http://www.visionforum.com/news/blogs/doug/2012/08/10331/ Seriously. I will never, ever give another dime to VF. Only men can lead ANYWHERE? Good Lord. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Lulu* Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 I wonder if Doug Phillips twitches when he reads Judges chapters 4 and 5? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen in NS Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 http://www.visionforum.com/news/blogs/doug/2012/08/10331/ Seriously. I will never, ever give another dime to VF. Only men can lead ANYWHERE? Good Lord. Don't forget to read this link at the bottom of that article: http://www.visionforumministries.org/issues/ballot_box/should_christians_support_a_wo.aspx :ack2::glare::angry: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 I read the blog. The wording there of "man" and "men" could be generic in that he not once mentions excluding women. Having said that I think there is a general bias in VF against women in any positions outside of the home but I could be wrong on that. Oops. Just read Colleen's link. That clarifies his stand beyond a reason of a doubt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 Not surprising. *vomit smilie* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrincessMommy Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 I wonder if Doug Phillips twitches when he reads Judges chapters 4 and 5? :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngieC Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 I read the blog. The wording there of "man" and "men" could be generic in that he not once mentions excluding women. Having said that I think there is a general bias in VF against women in any positions outside of the home but I could be wrong on that. Oops. Just read Colleen's link. That clarifies his stand beyond a reason of a doubt. Doesn't this part of the blog post mean that he is referring to "men" and not "men or women?" Men The Hebrew word translated “men†in this text refers to males as opposed to females. The generic term for mankind, which would include women, is not used here, but rather, the gender specific word for men. If the choice of words means anything, then it is necessary to conclude that God intended that only men be chosen for the office of civil ruler. In Exodus 18:21 the same Hebrew word is used; in fact, in every other passage dealing with the civil magistrate, his duties, and his qualifications, men are in view (cf. Deut. 17:14-20; 2 Sam. 23:3; Neh. 7:2; Prov. 16:10; 20:8, 28; 29:14; 31:4-5; Rom. 13:1-6). The order of male headship established at creation applies to each of the three “governments†established by God: the family, the church, and the state. [1] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 Not surprising. *vomit smilie* :iagree: :ack2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 Doesn't this part of the blog post mean that he is referring to "men" and not "men or women?" Men The Hebrew word translated “men†in this text refers to males as opposed to females. The generic term for mankind, which would include women, is not used here, but rather, the gender specific word for men. If the choice of words means anything, then it is necessary to conclude that God intended that only men be chosen for the office of civil ruler. In Exodus 18:21 the same Hebrew word is used; in fact, in every other passage dealing with the civil magistrate, his duties, and his qualifications, men are in view (cf. Deut. 17:14-20; 2 Sam. 23:3; Neh. 7:2; Prov. 16:10; 20:8, 28; 29:14; 31:4-5; Rom. 13:1-6). The order of male headship established at creation applies to each of the three “governments†established by God: the family, the church, and the state. [1] You're right. Even while I was trying to read specifically to see if he said anything about women, I admit I was skimming and missed that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1bassoon Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 Sigh. I used to be inspired by them. Then I started researching and digging. Don't even get me started on the Botkin sisters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitten18 Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 http://www.visionforum.com/news/blogs/doug/2012/08/10331/ Seriously. I will never, ever give another dime to VF. Only men can lead ANYWHERE? Good Lord. Whoa...:001_huh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 VF has always made my behind twitch! This guy and others like him need to seriously spend some time worrying a whole lot more about how they treat their wives - "Husbands, love your wives as Christ loved the church and gave Himself up for it as a living sacrifice." - than thinking about what everyone else's wives, mothers, and daughters are up to... Besides, I don't like being told how to vote. Anyone know if his wife is allowed to vote? Faith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunnyDays Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 Besides, I don't like being told how to vote. Anyone know if his wife is allowed to vote? Faith I don't know... wouldn't surprise me if she's not. I've seen quotes on other boards along the lines of "my husband decided we're voting for x" and it kind of made me :001_huh:... In our house, I'm usually the one who does the research on political candidates, churches, and other hot topics. My husband gladly concedes that I'm more interested in the details and good at sifting through the info. DP would probably have me tarred and feathered... :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 I don't know... wouldn't surprise me if she's not. I've seen quotes on other boards along the lines of "my husband decided we're voting for x" and it kind of made me :001_huh:... In our house, I'm usually the one who does the research on political candidates, churches, and other hot topics. My husband gladly concedes that I'm more interested in the details and good at sifting through the info. DP would probably have me tarred and feathered... :D We do the same! I go through the voter's pamphlet etc. first and then tell dh how to vote! (He can decide differently if he wants. . . he just tends to copy my choices.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz CA Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 I wonder if Doug Phillips twitches when he reads Judges chapters 4 and 5? The link Colleen provided contains an article that addresses Deborah in Judges. This article does not seem to have been written by Wilson or Phillips, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godsaggie Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 *Sigh* I have such a hard time with this myself. I love the products from VF. I have sat and listened to Phillips' teachings and get a totally different vibe from him in person than when I read his blog. It's so weird. :glare: I totally understand the roles given to men and women from the bible and strive to live that way. Unfortunately, we live in a fallen world and things aren't perfect. I plan to have leadership roles once I have extra time...meaning after the kids are grown. At this point in my life, I'm too stinkin busy with life to even consider doing anything extra! :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 (edited) This article does not seem to have been written by Wilson or Phillips, though.Sorry, this is probably old. I'm giggling right now picturing them in Wilson Phillips. Edited August 15, 2012 by nmoira Pesky period Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 http://www.visionforumministries.org/issues/ballot_box/should_christians_support_a_wo.aspx What navel contemplating! And wooden prose. I once did a Vo-Tec course in auto mechanics. I sold my tools after college to pay to move to NYC and move on in my career, but I still have a lot of mechanical sense. I have found that one of the fastest ways to judge a man sensible or not is in a situation where something is broken and I can fix it. If I say, "I can just do X and Y, and then Z" and the response is contempt or hostility, it is a very different man from a sensible one who thinks: great -- we're gonna get 'er fixed. And helps find the tools. This "judge of character" has never failed me. Any jerk who is more insistent on maintaining the upper hand than is fixing the problem is ... well, an idiot. Years ago, before "Women's Lib" hit rural Kansas, many a woman was appreciated and credited for "getting 'er done". I recall one woman who was so good on perfect tractor work on slopes, the men of the surrounding farms traded work with her. They'd plow her flat fields and she'd work their tricky ones. Her dad, an old guy in overalls leaned down and said to me, just a girl: I always thought a woman with her mind made up to succeed could give any man a run for his money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1bassoon Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 *Sigh*I have such a hard time with this myself. I love the products from VF. I have sat and listened to Phillips' teachings and get a totally different vibe from him in person than when I read his blog. It's so weird. :glare: This. The same experience here - and we've heard DP while NOT at homeschool conventions. Some of the theology behind VF makes me crazy. And the problem is that homeschoolers get "sucked in" without realizing. . . . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Lulu* Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 Sorry, this is probably old, I'm giggling right now picturing them in Wilson Phillips. Yeah, I am pretty sure Doug Phillips isn't crazy about girl groups either. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommy22alyns Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 I just can't with Doug Philips and VF. :glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 Sorry, this is probably old. I'm giggling right now picturing them in Wilson Phillips. :lol::lol::lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimm Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 I got a catalog in the mail from them one time (not sure how I ended up with that) and I guess I griped a bit too much about it at home in the presence of my kids. My 11 year old was hanging out with me waiting for her sister to get out of ballet when she noticed the same catalog sitting on the table next to where another of the moms was on her laptop. My daughter commented loudly, "Isn't that the catalog you hate mom?" :blushing: Oh well, I knew from previous conversations that mom and I weren't destined to be BFFs. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newlifemom Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 I have to say, I love some of the toys in the catalog, but hate, hate, hate, that they are segregated. For the most part, only pics of boys with tracking, fighting, digging toys and of course their very girly section. I believe and appreciate the differences between male and female. I'm one who believes in male leadership in the church. That said, I am very, very wary of anything led by a man surrounded by look alikes and women in skirts down to their ankles. :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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