Do you feel the need to do more or less with your special needs child?

[Mom0012]

I just posted my schedule for my 7th grade son on the general board and I haven't gotten very many responses yet, but so far I'm hearing that it's too much. And I have worried that it's too much. But it wouldn't be too much at all for my other child who doesn't have special needs. And yet, she doesn't need to do as much in order to have success.:willy_nilly:

 

Does anyone else "get" that? Do you have a heavier or a lighter workload for your special needs child?

 

Lisa

[MomatHWTK]

Internally, I have felt a pressure to try to "make up" for anything that might be lacking due to an LD. The pushback I get from our therapist is that if there are issues, I should accomodate them and that it's OK to slow things down or take a break.

 

While we homeschool, our therapist is actually a PhD in educational psychology and consults with school children on IEPs, testifies in court, etc. Even knowing that she is an "expert" on this topic, it is hard to not want to push ahead.

 

Looking at your schedule on the other post, I did think it was too much. But I don't know your child and his abilities, and I don't have a child in 7th grade yet. So I'm not qualified to say. What I would say, is be aware of your time, his efforts and his stamina. You can drop or add things, you can do less of something (i.e. 2 days a week instead of 4), just remember to be flexible.

 

A lot of what you will choose to do will depend on your end goals. If you and the child desire a full college-bound career on the same time line as a child without limitations, then you are going to have to do "extra" to achieve that goal. Whether or not you can both handle doing so is an entirely different question.

[Crimson Wife]

No two SN kids are alike. What is too much for one SN student would be not enough for another. The tricky thing is finding the balance between wanting to challenge them and not wanting to frustrate them.

 

My biggest struggle with my SN child is that she's a visual learner and has receptive language delay while my natural teaching style is more auditory. The visual teaching just doesn't come easily to me and I feel that I'm not as effective in teaching her as I could be if I were better at it. :(

[ShelleyW]

I do less b/c my dd is not capable of doing more. She cannot handle the workload of a NT 4th grader.

[AHASRADA]

I'm constantly striving for a balance as well. For us (dyslexic dd), it has come down to more of what she needs to work on most, forcing us to do less of subjects that just aren't that vital right now. That might mean focusing on basic skills and keeping content to a minimum for now. IMHO, trying to remediate learning issues while keeping the child on grade level in every subject is a recipe for frustration, disappointment and burnout for teacher and student.

:grouphug:

[PeterPan]

We do more of some things and less of others. We put a lot of energy into foundational things (math, spelling, writing) where not putting in the extra effort would mean she didn't get where she needs to be. We remove time or totally ax things that, in the end, aren't that important to her right now (latin, etc.). It's just a choice we had to make about energy and priorities.

 

However when you look at her TIMES, what *for her* is a lot of energy and expenditure might not look like a lot compared to some *other* child. But that doesn't matter. I know where her max is physically for her within a day (the amount she can work and still have some reserve to give to art, projects, or other activities), so I have to keep the total requirements within that. Right now it's around 4 1/2 hours. If I go over that, she's just too wiped. So that's where it's at. I have to do this calculation of all our ideas and what would be nice and keep it to 4 1/2 hours, end of discussion. But to get there I've had to ax some things and give priority to others.

 

I arrived on our times per day in consultation with the neuropsych. He SPECIFICALLY and explicitly and in NO UNCERTAIN TERMS said to keep her total required hours per day down to where she was not getting excessively worn out. I'm sure that varies with the dc. I'm always good at thinking things up and making things hard, lol, no issue there. The issue is pruning it down and seeing what was really essential and what was not.

 

I don't think it's necessary to work LONGER particularly than other kids. In our house it's not even physically possible frankly. We've done a lot of backtracking, relearning, and overlearning over the years, and that really seems to work around here. Gets them to where something is SOLID, so they can do it faster.

[MerryAtHope]

I find the balance is tough to achieve, that's for sure. I almost always plan too much & have to scale back to reasonable!

[Pen]

We do more of some things and less of others. We put a lot of energy into foundational things (math, spelling, writing) where not putting in the extra effort would mean she didn't get where she needs to be. We remove time or totally ax things that, in the end, aren't that important to her right now (latin, etc.). It's just a choice we had to make about energy and priorities.

 

However when you look at her TIMES, what *for her* is a lot of energy and expenditure might not look like a lot compared to some *other* child. But that doesn't matter. I know where her max is physically for her within a day (the amount she can work and still have some reserve to give to art, projects, or other activities), so I have to keep the total requirements within that. Right now it's around 4 1/2 hours. If I go over that, she's just too wiped. So that's where it's at. I have to do this calculation of all our ideas and what would be nice and keep it to 4 1/2 hours, end of discussion. But to get there I've had to ax some things and give priority to others.

 

I arrived on our times per day in consultation with the neuropsych. He SPECIFICALLY and explicitly and in NO UNCERTAIN TERMS said to keep her total required hours per day down to where she was not getting excessively worn out. I'm sure that varies with the dc. I'm always good at thinking things up and making things hard, lol, no issue there. The issue is pruning it down and seeing what was really essential and what was not.

 

I don't think it's necessary to work LONGER particularly than other kids. In our house it's not even physically possible frankly. We've done a lot of backtracking, relearning, and overlearning over the years, and that really seems to work around here. Gets them to where something is SOLID, so they can do it faster.

 

This sounds exactly like the situation here too, except no conversation with an NP.

[Night Elf]

I may be wrong, but I'm getting the impression that you feel it's important to do lots and lots of work to make up for the fact that he has LDs. I took the opposite stance. My son takes a long time to do his work so I have always chosen the materials that I think are most important. I avoided redundant work. School work can be very frustrating for him and the longer he works, the harder it gets. He loses focus and momentum. If he's tired, then his lesson is stretched out. What could take him 1 hour to do when he's not tired, will go 1.5 to 2 hours when he is tired. Does that make sense? In order to reduce that problem, he takes breaks between subjects. His limit is to work a couple of hours in one sitting. That means we can get 2 subjects done. Then he needs at least an hour in his room to recharge. If one subject takes more than an hour, he needs a break before going to the next subject.

 

My son is taking only 4 high school courses right now. We are right near the end of one class so I'm going to go ahead and have him begin the 5th class so I can see how he does. If it doesn't work out, he's almost finished with the class so it won't harm his schedule. He'll just be back to 4 classes.

 

It's almost 3am and I'm still awake. I'm probably rambling. :)

[Mom0012]

Thanks, ladies. I'm still not sure what to do with my son. I don't think he is getting wiped out with the workload we've been doing and I do feel like he can certainly go to college, but that he will need to work harder. It's not that I feel like I just need to give him more work. Everything I've selected to use with him is for a specific purpose and a chunk of that is remediation. I'm not really feeling like much of what we're doing is redundant. That may be because I'm not being clear in my other post on the general board about how we're using certain programs or it may be because I am disillusioned. Not sure which is the case. :D

 

Lisa

Edited June 23, 2012 by LisaTheresa

[Heathermomster]

I looked at your schedule and imagine you'll find your groove after a few weeks. DS cannot sit and work for 1 hour straight on any subject. I could see you backing off somewhat with your time estimates.

 

I'm working on my attitude this summer and trying to back down with content. I think logic stage science should be fun and am hoping to excite DS with labs and exposure to content. History is huge in our home, and we love and discuss it for pleasure anyways. No amount of extra time will make grammar and math better. The ability is there; however, more time would likely hurt. DS requires daily, direct instruction with grammar and math. I'm trying to use resources that teach specifically to his learning style and needs. For us, slow and steady wins the race in those areas.

Edited June 23, 2012 by Heathermomster

[Paisley Hedgehog]

nm

[Night Elf]

One thing that jumped out at me from your other posts was how many times you referenced SWB and WTM. ("SWB recs ...", "TWTM says a Logic stage should spend X time....") Well no offense intended to SWB, but she's not teaching Special Needs (at least, not that I'm aware). IMHO pretty much the whole of TWTM is useless to a Special Needs teacher.

 

I believe I read that those schedules were encouraged by the publisher, not SWB's personal ideas. That takes off some of the pressure at having to reach the exact time suggestions. I've really enjoyed her audio lectures. What she says always made sense, whereas the book just made me feel overwhelmed. :)

[Night Elf]

Lisa, one more thing. I hope you aren't feeling attacked. It's a fine line we walk when trying to put together a school program for our kids. It's so hard for me to say you're thinking of doing too much, because it may not be too much for your son. We're all giving you advice that is filtered through our own personal experiences. You have chosen many good resources that I think will be beneficial. It's just how you put them together and perhaps figure out how to drop some that is the challenge. You did say your son though things were fine. I talk with my son a lot about how school is going for him. I need to know what days overwhelm him so I can figure out if the feelings are stemming from the schoolwork or from himself (mentally, like having a bad day with mood).

 

There are some days when we approach work differently to help him get through it. We take turns reading stuff aloud rather than him reading it all independently. We break down writing assignments together to help him organize his thoughts into an outline. We sit on the sofa to do some work because he finds it more comfortable. We take a 30-minute game break. I actually do a great deal with him, although he has the capacity to work independently. It's just less stressful when I'm there giving him moral support. IOW, over the years, we've learned how to make accommodations for him. He's an excellent student because we hit a mixture of work that is going well and isn't too overwhelming, or at least is less overwhelming than some of his previous classes. He couldn't personally handle a school day over 4 hours because rather than 4 great hours, he would have 7 mediocre ones. SWB has a writing lecture on audio where she talks about handwriting. She says it's better to get a minimum number of words that are well written than a lot of words that are sloppily written. It's that type of philosophy that has shaped how I homeschool. Really, ymmv. You'll find your way.

 

:grouphug:

[Mom0012]

No two SN kids are alike. What is too much for one SN student would be not enough for another. The tricky thing is finding the balance between wanting to challenge them and not wanting to frustrate them.

 

My biggest struggle with my SN child is that she's a visual learner and has receptive language delay while my natural teaching style is more auditory. The visual teaching just doesn't come easily to me and I feel that I'm not as effective in teaching her as I could be if I were better at it. :(

 

Yes, and this may be why I'm having trouble. My son does have a language disorder, but he has excellent comprehension and overall does very well academically. I know that the things I have listed in my schedule look like a lot on paper, but he is able to manage to get it all done and it doesn't seem to cause him tremendous stress. As I said in my post on the general board, my biggest concern is about how to find the time to do literary analysis and speech if that's important to him (and maybe something else I'm forgetting). He's ready to move things up a notch and that means working on thinking skills. I have seen an improvement in him already just in going through one literature guide while reading the Hobbit.

 

Anyway, I'm going to keep pondering and I'm sure we'll be making adjustments (we always do). I think there are probably a couple of things we will drop or skip (like speech, possibly), but a loop schedule might also be helpful. I've already asked him if he think he could read at night or if he'd want to and he says that sounds like a good plan. My concern with that is he has had eye allergies since the beginning of the last school year and he was not able to read at night. If I can get that under control, that is one hour knocked off our daytime schoolwork right there.

 

Lisa

[Mom0012]

I went and hunted down your thread to see exactly what you were talking about with your schedule. Holy smokes! :blink: I've been teaching (diagnosed) SN for four years and have just hit middle school. We took an extra year with my ds before 6th (or we redshirted it, or we repeated 5th, however you want to look at it). So my ds is probably close in age to yours; he would have been entering 7th if we had not held him back. There is no way, NO WAY, he could accomplish everything you have scheduled for your ds.

 

My belief is that SN means you have to do MORE with LESS. Your list is crazy complicated, with multiple resources for every subject. Three maths? Three languages (English -- which may as well be a foreign language to these kids, Latin, AND Spanish?)?? And a literature-based history? Plus three outside activities?? Wow. That is A LOT for any kid, and for Special Needs ... wow, just wow. No wonder you are stressed out! :grouphug:

 

I have a weekly checklist that really simplifies the whole thing, so it's not as confusing as when I write it out in a list like I did on the general board. He's not doing 3 full maths. CLE is his main program. HOE is a supplement and, if he did Singapore, it would just be IP and it would be a supplement. He wouldn't be working more than an hour a day on math, which seems reasonable to me for 7th grade. I agree that it would be best to stick with Latin or Spanish and I'm going to let him choose which. Like I said on the other board, I had intended to go with Latin, but I started Spanish with my dd for enrichment and he wanted to learn too. He loves SL and he is a strong reader. That isn't a problem except for the time it takes and it's only becoming a problem now that I want to introduce more lit analysis and discussion. His activities really aren't that time consuming unless he winds up doing speech. That is the one I am concerned about.

 

I really think you need to decide what is absolutely essential and put your focus there. In our house, that is the 3R's. Then we have ONE other "rigorous" subject (usually Science) and ONE activity (this year it was martial arts). If ds and I can accomplish those things with excellence, then I feel I've done my job.

 

One thing that jumped out at me from your other posts was how many times you referenced SWB and WTM. ("SWB recs ...", "TWTM says a Logic stage should spend X time....") Well no offense intended to SWB, but she's not teaching Special Needs (at least, not that I'm aware). IMHO pretty much the whole of TWTM is useless to a Special Needs teacher. (ouch! dodging flaming arrows and flying tomatoes!) Some of the guidelines or curric recommendations might work with some students, but TWTM just simply was not written with a SN student in mind. Heck, even my NT student can't follow that schedule! (and believe me, we've tried!)

 

I'm just referring to TWTM since this is TWTM board and what I am trying to do is within the guidelines SWB has set. I'm not saying that's right for every child, but I think it may be okay for mine.

 

All of your responses to people telling you to cut back have been that you don't see how or where to cut, and that everything you are doing serves some purpose. So my advice is to start there. What is really most important to you and to your son? Where is he struggling? Where is he confident? Where is he headed in the future and what skills might he need? Rather than looking at your pile of books and trying to cull, maybe it would be beneficial to put them all away and start from the beginning. What one thing do you need for grammar? Ok. What one thing do you need for writing? Ok. What one thing do you need for math? etc, etc Maybe rather than scheduling multiple resources at the same time, you could finish something (a text, a workbook) then move to the next.

 

I think I've been receptive to the idea of doing only one language, possibly not doing speech and taking a closer look at what I've got lined up for him. I do have reasons for doing the things I am doing with him, though. They aren't just random activities I've selected. And he's improved by leaps and bounds over the years.

 

So anyway, I've combined my thoughts on your two threads into one, so I hope you've been able to follow some of what I'm saying. It is difficult to judge tone on the boards since you can't see people's faces or reactions, but hopefully you take these suggestions as helpful and not critical.

 

I am absolutely taking them as helpful and I hope I don't sound defensive. I'm really just looking for discussion. I don't have anyone IRL that I can discuss this with that would understand. I knew when I posted that I would have to ultimately make the final decision for my son because only I know him and I know what he can handle. I just wanted to talk about it and get some thoughts. I have been a little surprised that some of the people who do longer days haven't actually jumped in to say they do this and more with their kids, to be honest. I know there are people who are doing 4 languages, for example.

 

Thanks, Shari!

 

Lisa

[Mom0012]

Lisa, one more thing. I hope you aren't feeling attacked. It's a fine line we walk when trying to put together a school program for our kids. It's so hard for me to say you're thinking of doing too much, because it may not be too much for your son. We're all giving you advice that is filtered through our own personal experiences. You have chosen many good resources that I think will be beneficial. It's just how you put them together and perhaps figure out how to drop some that is the challenge. You did say your son though things were fine. I talk with my son a lot about how school is going for him. I need to know what days overwhelm him so I can figure out if the feelings are stemming from the schoolwork or from himself (mentally, like having a bad day with mood).

 

There are some days when we approach work differently to help him get through it. We take turns reading stuff aloud rather than him reading it all independently. We break down writing assignments together to help him organize his thoughts into an outline. We sit on the sofa to do some work because he finds it more comfortable. We take a 30-minute game break. I actually do a great deal with him, although he has the capacity to work independently. It's just less stressful when I'm there giving him moral support. IOW, over the years, we've learned how to make accommodations for him. He's an excellent student because we hit a mixture of work that is going well and isn't too overwhelming, or at least is less overwhelming than some of his previous classes. He couldn't personally handle a school day over 4 hours because rather than 4 great hours, he would have 7 mediocre ones. SWB has a writing lecture on audio where she talks about handwriting. She says it's better to get a minimum number of words that are well written than a lot of words that are sloppily written. It's that type of philosophy that has shaped how I homeschool. Really, ymmv. You'll find your way.

 

:grouphug:

 

Beth -

 

Nope, I'm not feeling attacked at all. I am a little surprised more people that do longer days haven't responded, but I am fine with some criticism and feedback. That's what I was looking for. I just want to think this through carefully. I feel like I've gotten some good ideas and I appreciate everyone's input.

 

Thanks again!

Lisa

[PeterPan]

I don't have anyone IRL that I can discuss this with that would understand. I knew when I posted that I would have to ultimately make the final decision for my son because only I know him and I know what he can handle. I just wanted to talk about it and get some thoughts. I have been a little surprised that some of the people who do longer days haven't actually jumped in to say they do this and more with their kids, to be honest. I know there are people who are doing 4 languages, for example.

 

This is just by memory, but I think that 5-6 hour a day range was pretty typical for 7th and 8th grade plans for *NT* dc. That's just based on threads I found while digging around on the boards, nothing scientific. If you want better info, make a poll on LM and see what you get.

 

As far as determining it for your particular ds, yes it's absolutely about you looking at him. It depends on the mix of materials. As my dd says, 20 minutes of working VERY VERY HARD isn't the same thing as 20 minutes at a different intensity. So it's really how your mix is affecting him, and that's just where you watch him and see.

 

As far as the multiple languages, I think very few people are doing more than 2. ;) If you haven't done much with languages with him yet, you may find it takes a lot of effort to get things to stick. If that's the case, you might be wise to start with one. It may require more time than for a NT dc, again depending on the program, difficulty, and how well the material and method is connecting with your dc.

 

Are you saying you wanted bolstering to work him HARD? I definitely think you should work your dc to his ability. But where that line hits is different for each child. It would be a sticky thing if you (just throwing this out) happened to miss social cues and so were *missing* his indications of being overwhelmed or over-fatigued. Or perhaps it's a scenario where he has a compliant personality that doesn't goatishly complain when it's too much. In cases like that, you'd have to take extra caution to make sure you were working with him appropriately. But no, it's ok to work him diligently and so that it feels like work. The standard our np suggested we use was that she had enough energy afterward to be able to pursue her own interests. If they finish the day and just want to sit and do NOTHING, then they're probably worn out.

 

As for SWB and SN, well she no longer talks about her kids now that they have gotten older. I'll merely observe that she is now giving talks on the realistic kid and encouraging people to get evals if they hit 5th and still have issues that haven't been outgrown. I also know from discussions with her about my dd that all her dc were not as much pencil-lovers as her first dc and that she adapts things to fit the dc. If you look at her daily checklists for her kids that she has posted on her blog, they're NOTHING to the degree of rigorous and rough and whatnot that people on the boards aspire to. Lots of time to raise chickens and think and craft and explore. I think she may have more experience on some issues than we think.

[Mom0012]

This is just by memory, but I think that 5-6 hour a day range was pretty typical for 7th and 8th grade plans for *NT* dc. That's just based on threads I found while digging around on the boards, nothing scientific. If you want better info, make a poll on LM and see what you get.

 

Okay, I just pulled out my WTM book to see if I was off and it's actually more than 7 hours that is recommended for 7th grade. I'm not saying that's a good fit for every child, but that is what is recommended. Actually, the longer this discussion goes on, the less of a problem I have with the 7 hours (especially when you consider 2 hours of that is either me reading aloud to him, which he loves, or him reading to himself, which he enjoys). When I originally started the post on the general board, I was stressing over trying to add in the logic stage activities that I think he needs without extending our day. I think it is okay the way it is, but I don't really want to make it longer. I wanted help streamlining so that we could make the most of our time because trying to add in the logic stage stuff was stressing me out.

 

As far as determining it for your particular ds, yes it's absolutely about you looking at him. It depends on the mix of materials. As my dd says, 20 minutes of working VERY VERY HARD isn't the same thing as 20 minutes at a different intensity. So it's really how your mix is affecting him, and that's just where you watch him and see.

 

As far as the multiple languages, I think very few people are doing more than 2. ;) If you haven't done much with languages with him yet, you may find it takes a lot of effort to get things to stick. If that's the case, you might be wise to start with one. It may require more time than for a NT dc, again depending on the program, difficulty, and how well the material and method is connecting with your dc.

 

I agree that most people aren't doing more than 2, but I do see people that are doing more than that. I was actually just using that as an example of the many posts I've seen where people seem to have pretty long days. I have definitely gotten the impression that most people are unable to get done by lunchtime once their kids are in middle school and that makes me think they must be working more than 5 hours. BUT, maybe it's because I'm including his reading time in the 7 hours that makes it seem like so much?

 

We've been doing Spanish for 2 years now and taking it slowly, but I feel it is going well. He'll have difficulty speaking it (which is why I always think about Latin for him), but he's doing well with the vocab, grammar and translation so far. Since starting this discussion, I have decided that am not going to have him do two languages. At the moment, I am thinking he will just continue with Spanish since we've already invested a significant amount of time there.

 

Are you saying you wanted bolstering to work him HARD? I definitely think you should work your dc to his ability. But where that line hits is different for each child. It would be a sticky thing if you (just throwing this out) happened to miss social cues and so were *missing* his indications of being overwhelmed or over-fatigued. Or perhaps it's a scenario where he has a compliant personality that doesn't goatishly complain when it's too much. In cases like that, you'd have to take extra caution to make sure you were working with him appropriately. But no, it's ok to work him diligently and so that it feels like work. The standard our np suggested we use was that she had enough energy afterward to be able to pursue her own interests. If they finish the day and just want to sit and do NOTHING, then they're probably worn out.

 

I really just wanted to know how to fit in the logic stage skills without extending our day. He does work hard, but I do think that's okay. My sense is that we're where we should be right now, so I need to streamline and/or reprioritize to keep things that way. If your np's standard is correct, then I think we're fine. He finishes his work, swims, plays with friends, listens to audiobooks, builds legos, plays with his coin collection and has time to chill out and watch tv or play on the computer in the evening. He's definitely not just sitting around and staring into space due to exhaustion. Actually, if he finished all his work in 5 hours, he'd be done by noon and have about 9 hours of free time each day. That seems like a lot. I wonder if he's actually just efficient and it's not the 7 hours that is bothersome, but the amount of work he is doing in that time? Or maybe I just haven't explained things well because I'm truly surprised by some of the responses.

 

As for SWB and SN, well she no longer talks about her kids now that they have gotten older. I'll merely observe that she is now giving talks on the realistic kid and encouraging people to get evals if they hit 5th and still have issues that haven't been outgrown. I also know from discussions with her about my dd that all her dc were not as much pencil-lovers as her first dc and that she adapts things to fit the dc. If you look at her daily checklists for her kids that she has posted on her blog, they're NOTHING to the degree of rigorous and rough and whatnot that people on the boards aspire to. Lots of time to raise chickens and think and craft and explore. I think she may have more experience on some issues than we think.

 

I think I'm at the point where there's not much else I can say and I'm starting to just repeat myself. I appreciate everyone's feedback and will reread and ponder and figure out the best way to approach things for my son.

 

Thanks again, everyone! This has actually been very helpful for me and I've come up with a number of adjustments I can make so that we continue in a productive, but happy way.

 

Lisa

[FairProspects]

As for SWB and SN, well she no longer talks about her kids now that they have gotten older. I'll merely observe that she is now giving talks on the realistic kid and encouraging people to get evals if they hit 5th and still have issues that haven't been outgrown. I also know from discussions with her about my dd that all her dc were not as much pencil-lovers as her first dc and that she adapts things to fit the dc. If you look at her daily checklists for her kids that she has posted on her blog, they're NOTHING to the degree of rigorous and rough and whatnot that people on the boards aspire to. Lots of time to raise chickens and think and craft and explore. I think she may have more experience on some issues than we think.

 

:iagree:IIRC, she even mentioned in one of her more recent talks that she had sought evals for 2 of her kids. Both WTM and LCC are idealistic and need to be taken as such when reality hits.

 

(Not that this comment is intended for OP, I just think it is interesting to see how recommendations change as authors proceed with their own children.)

[PeterPan]

Glad you're figuring out what you need to do! That's all that matters! :)

 

Just for my curiousity, is this dc *diagnosed* or suspected? Just asking. In our case there's a pretty big gap between IQ and processing speed. That's why things she wants to do are hard and draining. Different child, different scenario, different response. Just thought that might explain what you were saying about how you could see such a spread in expectations. Also, I don't count her pleasure reading as school. She reads things for pleasure that others might put on an assigned reading list (Gulliver's Travels, that sort of thing), and I don't to read alouds (cuz I fall ASLEEP! lol).

[Night Elf]

Lisa, you mention that 2 of the 7 hours are for reading. I think that is fine. I certainly could read as much if not more during a school day. If his day is too busy, can he read one of his independent books in the evening? We actually do our reading aloud after dinner for ds15 because it's a calm part of the day and DH can listen in. We love my DH sitting in because he often brings an element of discussion that I wouldn't have thought of. He's initiated way more meaningful discussions than me. I guess I just don't know the right questions to ask! :)

 

Also, I'm inspired by your situation and am reevaluating my son's schedule. DH is ready for me to ramp up ds's schedule so I'm looking for ways to do that without overwhelming my son. I'm definitely adding in Fallacy Detective and see how he does with that. We haven't done much logic study, but he has a good mind for problem solving. So thank you! :tongue_smilie:

[Paisley Hedgehog]

nm

[RamonaQ]

 

Does anyone else "get" that? Do you have a heavier or a lighter workload for your special needs child?

 

Lisa

 

I have a workload. I don't know if it is heavier or lighter. I have very specific goals, and then I map those to each of my children (one is dyslexic, and one is not).

 

So when we were remediating ds's reading and spelling--that was included in the schedule. I also think about how much I really want to be working a day...I want us to be done BEFORE 3:00 because the days are just too long after that (although free reading is usually after 3:00).

 

Mid- last year, I started trying to integrate goals across subjects. So, for example, at that point I wanted ds to regularly write 5 paragraph essays. So, that was rolled into another subject, the writing curricula dropped, and composition was instructed as he regularly wrote. This turned out to be really successful.

 

The other thought that I had when selecting curriculum this year and designing our schedule was that one of the curricula that I was selecting, a writing curricula (because I was feeling internal pressure to DO IT ALL), was just boring and tedious. However, I remembered back to last year's great success of rolling writing goals into different areas and immediately realized that I honestly didn't want to add in something that was more work and boring (and also had a very narrow expectation of output). Grammar is another subject that I am rolling into our other work.

 

So I guess this highlights another strategy which is to look very carefully at the amount of time versus how much academic output that you are going to get. For example, our history curriculum has mapwork every other lesson or so. This takes ds a really long time. I asked myself if this mapwork is so incredibly valuable that ds does every single map or are there shortcuts (like not doing them or printing out already filled in maps that ds circles the items...etc...). Grammar was another item, although easy enough to compete, was not really transferring into a meaningful way into ds writing and understanding of how to analyze his work for fragments/ run-ons etc... So, I just instructed him within the context of his writing on strategies to look at his sentences. Therefore, grammar, for me, is another item that the time doesn't justify the academic output at this stage in the game (although we have done grammar for 3 years in the past).

 

I also keep a really big picture in mind about how valuable each item is to my bigger picture. So sometimes there are other goals, for example learning how to manage work independently that are not at all curriculum, but need the space to learn.

 

So I think only you can answer if you think your work is too much, and if it aligns with how you want to spend your days and where you are going.

 

Good luck!

Edited June 24, 2012 by RamonaQ

[hsmom2011]

My dd (pdd-nos) gets frustrated very easily. I try to keep her workload on the lighter side, but also make sure it is challenging for her.

[Mom0012]

Glad you're figuring out what you need to do! That's all that matters! :)

 

Just for my curiousity, is this dc *diagnosed* or suspected? Just asking. In our case there's a pretty big gap between IQ and processing speed. That's why things she wants to do are hard and draining. Different child, different scenario, different response. Just thought that might explain what you were saying about how you could see such a spread in expectations. Also, I don't count her pleasure reading as school. She reads things for pleasure that others might put on an assigned reading list (Gulliver's Travels, that sort of thing), and I don't to read alouds (cuz I fall ASLEEP! lol).

 

We had tons of evaluations when he was a little guy. There was a large spread with his IQ numbers but he was only 3 when the test was done and I don't even remember much about the results anymore. We got an absolute miracle with him when he went on a gluten free diet shortly after turning 3. He's had lots of therapy and is doing so well, but he's always going to struggle with language to a degree.

 

Lisa

[Mom0012]

Lisa, you mention that 2 of the 7 hours are for reading. I think that is fine. I certainly could read as much if not more during a school day. If his day is too busy, can he read one of his independent books in the evening? We actually do our reading aloud after dinner for ds15 because it's a calm part of the day and DH can listen in. We love my DH sitting in because he often brings an element of discussion that I wouldn't have thought of. He's initiated way more meaningful discussions than me. I guess I just don't know the right questions to ask! :)

 

Also, I'm inspired by your situation and am reevaluating my son's schedule. DH is ready for me to ramp up ds's schedule so I'm looking for ways to do that without overwhelming my son. I'm definitely adding in Fallacy Detective and see how he does with that. We haven't done much logic study, but he has a good mind for problem solving. So thank you! :tongue_smilie:

 

Of course! That's why these boards are so great. :) I know I've had years where I would list three complete programs for grammar or whatever (like Winston + Verticy + BJU), but really I was just using a tiny bit of This plus the worksheets from That plus the techniques from This Other. I totally get it. :D

 

One last thing. My oldest ds went through a big transition in middle school where he changed from a very sweet, compliant 12yo into a moody, uncooperative 13/14yo almost overnight. This had nothing to do with special needs and everything to do with teenagers and hormones!! LOL So if you haven't been through that yet, just a head's up.

 

It sounds like you are pretty confident in your plan, so kudos to you! Relax and enjoy your summer :cheers2:

 

Thanks so much for the support and encouragement. You have been wonderful to me. BUT, Shari, I do not need to hear about the horrible personality changes and teen hormones!!! :tongue_smilie: We've already gotten a little taste of that, but overall he's still an easygoing kid and I'm keeping my fingers crossed. I'm praying that he won't be the nightmare I was as a teen or I may have to run away.

 

Lisa

[Mom0012]

I have a workload. I don't know if it is heavier or lighter. I have very specific goals, and then I map those to each of my children (one is dyslexic, and one is not).

 

So when we were remediating ds's reading and spelling--that was included in the schedule. I also think about how much I really want to be working a day...I want us to be done BEFORE 3:00 because the days are just too long after that (although free reading is usually after 3:00).

 

Mid- last year, I started trying to integrate goals across subjects. So, for example, at that point I wanted ds to regularly write 5 paragraph essays. So, that was rolled into another subject, the writing curricula dropped, and composition was instructed as he regularly wrote. This turned out to be really successful.

 

The other thought that I had when selecting curriculum this year and designing our schedule was that one of the curricula that I was selecting, a writing curricula (because I was feeling internal pressure to DO IT ALL), was just boring and tedious. However, I remembered back to last year's great success of rolling writing goals into different areas and immediately realized that I honestly didn't want to add in something that was more work and boring (and also had a very narrow expectation of output). Grammar is another subject that I am rolling into our other work.

 

So I guess this highlights another strategy which is to look very carefully at the amount of time versus how much academic output that you are going to get. For example, our history curriculum has mapwork every other lesson or so. This takes ds a really long time. I asked myself if this mapwork is so incredibly valuable that ds does every single map or are there shortcuts (like not doing them or printing out already filled in maps that ds circles the items...etc...). Grammar was another item, although easy enough to compete, was not really transferring into a meaningful way into ds writing and understanding of how to analyze his work for fragments/ run-ons etc... So, I just instructed him within the context of his writing on strategies to look at his sentences. Therefore, grammar, for me, is another item that the time doesn't justify the academic output at this stage in the game (although we have done grammar for 3 years in the past).

 

I also keep a really big picture in mind about how valuable each item is to my bigger picture. So sometimes there are other goals, for example learning how to manage work independently that are not at all curriculum, but need the space to learn.

 

So I think only you can answer if you think your work is too much, and if it aligns with how you want to spend your days and where you are going.

 

Good luck!

 

Ramona, it sounds like you're working *smart* and not just working *hard*. That's what I'm striving to do, but it sounds like you are more on top of it than I am.

 

Lisa

[freeindeed]

I just posted my schedule for my 7th grade son on the general board and I haven't gotten very many responses yet, but so far I'm hearing that it's too much. And I have worried that it's too much. But it wouldn't be too much at all for my other child who doesn't have special needs. And yet, she doesn't need to do as much in order to have success.:willy_nilly:

 

Does anyone else "get" that? Do you have a heavier or a lighter workload for your special needs child?

 

Lisa

 

I follow an interest-led style of teaching with my special needs daughter, so what and how much we do varies from day to day. She is only four, though, so I am not sure what her schooling will look like when she's older.

[TippyCanoe]

.

[8filltheheart]

That is interesting indeed, and although I understand the wish to protect her kids' privacy, I also wish she would have been much more open about this. Otherwise, comments such as "All kids are different, and we all adjust as we teach," seem to dismiss the scope and severity of issues that some of us deal with. Not writing openly about what she's done with her kids also makes it seem that identifying children as SN is something to be hidden. Perhaps she has just been coming to terms with it, as we all have. But if her mission is to help others homeschool, and if she claims that her methodology works for SN kids of all kinds, it would be really beneficial to others if she shared the problems that led her to seek an evaluation, what she discovered, and whether her "adjustments" or "tweaking" of TWTM became something much more with those children.

 

This isn't meant to be a negative criticism, but rather to express a wish that evaluations and their results could be as openly shared as the fact that her first son was a "literary sort, like me," as she once put it, or that he wrote fiction in his spare time, or what he did on his gap year. If we DON'T share these things, and even to some extent if we share them but they are on a separate-but-equal SN board, it's harder to recognize how common LDs and special needs really are.

 

 

 

I strongly respect SWB's decision to not share publicly. It is one thing for people posting anonymously about their children to share results and discuss personal details: it is a completely different scenario when those children will lose all privacy. I have children that would be mortified if their issues were discussed in public for all the world to know and see. It could very well be her children asked her to keep things private.

 

I also do not get the sense that SNs are dismissed on this forum, in scope or severity. I have been reading the boards for yrs and have never felt anything other than support (even though most of time there are no answers, the support is genuine. Considering that no professionals have answers either, that is not a criticism.)

 

I have read several of your posts an you remind me of another poster. You might be interested in finding her posts b/c they echo yours very closely in wording......Karen Anne.

[TippyCanoe]

.

[8filltheheart]

Yes, it could be her children desired this. I did say I understood her decision to keep things more private, and that I was not criticizing her but rather wishing that there was not an issue of the "mortification" you describe attached to LDs becoming known and discussed in public. For this to change, people have to be willing to discuss such things more openly and widely. That's why I found the Finnish experience so interesting. I did say all that; it's there in my post.

 

Nor did I say that their issues were LDs. Actually, my SN child could careless about privacy issues b/c he is oblivious to how these issues are perceived or how his behaviors affect people's reaction to him. (I care, though, and respect his privacy for him beyond what others need to know and attempt to help him conform his behaviors to those that are socially proper regardless of his attitude that it doesn't matter.) 2 that would be mortified are actually gifted. It isn't that there is anything shameful attached to their issues. (I am most definitely not suggesting that anything shameful exists b/c of our Aspie being who he is either.) It is simply that they are very private people.

 

Honestly, I have the exact opposite experience and thus opinion than the one you expressed. So many people have become arm-chair pop-psychologists diagnosising Aspergers in all of their co-workers that it has harmed our ds more than if it were discussed less. They are under the illusion that Aspergers is simply a quirky label attached to the absent-minded professor, almost a designer label vs. a disability that may severely limit the functioning of the individual. Now as an adult trying to find employment and a way to function in the real world, people think they "know" his disability and "what it is." It amazes me b/c we are still trying to figure it out! :tongue_smilie:

[Seshet]

Obviously, the need to do more or less will depend greatly on the specific child, their needs, abilities, etc.

 

Personally, I do more. My kids are 2E. Their Gifted aspect requires more - more depth, more work, faster pace, etc. Their other issues are all things that can be overcome or controlled enough to not a cause negative impact on their lives. They simply need to learn the skills they need to do these things. So, we put more effort into those areas (including those that are not academic).

[scrapbookbuzz]

Depends on which child it is! My dd is Aspie/gifted and is content to be home all day, if I let her. My ds with gifted traits needs to be moving more. Academically, I think I should do more with each.