Literature question for adoptive parents

[SKL]

Ever notice how so many of the classics for youngsters have an orphan or adoptee as a key character? It seems like most do, especially the ones with girl heroines.

 

I always looked forward to sharing these classics with my offspring, but after adopting my daughters, I started wondering whether these selections would stir up negative / uncomfortable feelings. What do you all think? Do adoptive kids respond differently to Heidi, The Little Princess, Annie Sullivan, Anne of Green Gables, The Secret Garden, Jane Eyre, Oliver Twist, Huck Finn, etc. ...? If so, what is there to do?

 

I have already kept my kids from one of my favorite kiddy books, "Horton Hatches the Egg," lest it makes them think of their birth mom as "lazy" and undeserving. Am I just being oversensitive?

 

They've noticed some adoptees in literature/movies such as Superman, Moses, and the kids in The Sound of Music. These were taken well, but Tangled threw one of my daughters for a loop.

[Sneezyone]

No, I don't think you're being oversensitive at all. I've tried interesting my DD in some of those titles but she doesn't like to read about the death of bios or the mistreatment of orphans/adoptees. It makes her uncomfortable and raises lots of questions about how she came to be with us instead of her biomom (the unedited version is not age appropriate). I can see the wheels turning in her head tho and she just can't reconcile what she knows of her life with what she hears/sees on the screen. I think in a year or two, with a little more emotional maturity, we could have quality discussions on the topic but not yet.

 

ETA: Superman and Moses are both tales of parents thinking consciously placing their children or sending them off to (hopefully and in reality) a positive new life. The others are tales of abuse or neglect. I think that's why they're so tough. DD can't fathom why anyone would do that to a kid and seems to believe (wrongly) that her life without us must have been (or could have been) like that too.

Edited May 11, 2012 by Sneezyone

[kalliemorgan]

I would not have even thought about this. I don't have any valuable input. But you have broadened my horizons.

[jewellsmommy]

Ds is not adopted, but we are his guardians. I am mostly concerned about the stories and movies that depict the holy grail that is the birth mother/father :glare:. YKWIM? Or the ones that depict the non natural parents as hateful. I actually think that Anne of Green Gables is a good one though. The relationship is a positive example. The Little Princess will be avoided.

 

ETA: I would have loved for ds to be able to see Real Steel with dh as a daddy son thing. But, after dh and I watched it, we knew 'no way!' Any of the movies that suggest that nothing can compare to the bio-parent relationship are a dangerous message for ds.

Edited May 11, 2012 by jewellsmommy

[Sneezyone]

Ds is not adopted, but we are his guardians. I am mostly concerned about the stories and movies that depict the holy grail that is the birth mother/father :glare:. YKWIM? Or the ones that depict the non natural parents as hateful. I actually think that Anne of Green Gables is a good one though. The relationship is a positive example. The Little Princess will be avoided.

 

Yabbbbbut in Anne of Green Gables, the heroine spends a good deal of time convincing Marilla (sp?) to keep her b/c they initially wanted a boy. :confused:

[kalliemorgan]

Anne of Green Gables would be fabulous! Just thinking, how about Polyanna? It's been a while since I have read it, I can't entirely remember the premise...I can't remember if it would fall under this category or not.

[jewellsmommy]

Ever notice how so many of the classics for youngsters have an orphan or adoptee as a key character? It seems like most do, especially the ones with girl heroines.

 

I always looked forward to sharing these classics with my offspring, but after adopting my daughters, I started wondering whether these selections would stir up negative / uncomfortable feelings. What do you all think? Do adoptive kids respond differently to Heidi, The Little Princess, Annie Sullivan, Anne of Green Gables, The Secret Garden, Jane Eyre, Oliver Twist, Huck Finn, etc. ...? If so, what is there to do?

 

I have already kept my kids from one of my favorite kiddy books, "Horton Hatches the Egg," lest it makes them think of their birth mom as "lazy" and undeserving. Am I just being oversensitive?

 

They've noticed some adoptees in literature/movies such as Superman, Moses, and the kids in The Sound of Music. These were taken well, but Tangled threw one of my daughters for a loop.

 

We removed "Are you My Mother?" from the book shelf. As ds's 4th home, he has a lot of baggage. I don't care how cute a book is or how valuable the literary lesson. It is not worth it.

[kalliemorgan]

Yabbbbbut in Anne of Green Gables, the heroine spends a good deal of time convincing Marilla (sp?) to keep her b/c they initially wanted a boy. :confused:

 

Oh, yeah, I forgot that part. :tongue_smilie: You may find yourself having to re-read everything with the eye of the young-uns perspective. Maybe some adoption/foster groups may have a list floating around out there somewhere of positive spins on the subject.

[jewellsmommy]

Yabbbbbut in Anne of Green Gables, the heroine spends a good deal of time convincing Marilla (sp?) to keep her b/c they initially wanted a boy. :confused:

 

true, but despite all the mess she gets into...they love and accept her. The lesson is that we don't always need what we think we want. God sends us what we need. They needed Anne!

[Sneezyone]

true, but despite all the mess she gets into...they love and accept her. The lesson is that we don't always need what we think we want. God sends us what we need. They needed Anne!

 

True. It's just hard b/c I find DD doesn't always interpret these things the way I'd like her to. We tried this audio book and DD got really hung up on the plan to return their mail order kid. I just think the kiddos need a certain level of maturity to 'get' the sometimes cold and complicated decision making of adults.

[jewellsmommy]

No, I don't think you're being oversensitive at all. I've tried interesting my DD in some of those titles but she doesn't like to read about the death of bios or the mistreatment of orphans/adoptees. It makes her uncomfortable and raises lots of questions about how she came to be with us instead of her biomom (the unedited version is not age appropriate). I can see the wheels turning in her head tho and she just can't reconcile what she knows of her life with what she hears/sees on the screen. I think in a year or two, with a little more emotional maturity, we could have quality discussions on the topic but not yet.

 

ETA: Superman and Moses are both tales of parents thinking consciously placing their children or sending them off to (hopefully and in reality) a positive new life. The others are tales of abuse or neglect. I think that's why they're so tough. DD can't fathom why anyone would do that to a kid and seems to believe (wrongly) that her life without us must have been (or could have been) like that too.

 

 

We have this too. Ds will have to be much older before he will be allowed the full story. It is too horrific for someone so young. :crying:

[jewellsmommy]

True. It's just hard b/c I find DD doesn't always interpret these things the way I'd like her to. We tried this audio book and DD got really hung up on the plan to return their mail order kid. I just think the kiddos need a certain level of maturity to 'get' the sometimes cold and complicated decision making of adults.

 

 

I make it a point to make these things very obvious to ds. :D But each case is different. Ds was 'returned' by 2 different guardians before us. Anne had other guardians before Matthew and Marilla. They are the ones who kept her, we are keeping ds. We have gotten to prove it over and over through some life altering blunders on his part. So Anne's experience mirrors his pretty well. BUT, that is US. That may not be your family's experience. There is no standard experience when you get into this realm.

[Sneezyone]

I make it a point to make these things very obvious to ds. :D But each case is different. Ds was 'returned' by 2 different guardians before us. Anne had other guardians before Matthew and Marilla. They are the ones who kept her, we are keeping ds. We have gotten to prove it over and over through some life altering blunders on his part. So Anne's experience mirrors his pretty well. BUT, that is US. That may not be your family's experience. There is no standard experience when you get into this realm.

 

True. Ours was a straight private infant adoption, no cradle or foster care but the circumstances were still difficult (when aren't they?? ;)) so we've emphasized to DD that there are no returns and no takebacks. :D

[kalliemorgan]

I would think that Moses would be a positive spin, since his mother was saving him from being slaughtered, purposefully set it up so Pharaoh's daughter would find him, had Moses' sister watching and waiting to volunteer to "find" a nurse maid, and then his mother ended up able to care for him anyway, even though he was adopted into Pharaoh's household. Love from a distance? Love with the greater good in mind? These are just thoughts...

[Murmer]

I do it case by case....I do not like Stellaluna or Are You My Mother (which my dd preschool is doing a bunch of stuff about right now) because I hate the idea that mother's have to match their babies. My dd and I don't "match" but that doesn't change the fact that I am her mother.

I don't have issues with orphanage stories because my dd was not in an orphanage and doesn't understand that but if I had adopted a child from an orphanage those books would probably be left for either read together or till much later.

I think it is case by case as long as it is not an outright negative portrayal of adoption/adopted children being bad (that bit in Anne about the orphans who killed their families...might skip that part).

I also make sure we have lots of positive books about adoption like A Mother for Coco...and then talk talk talk talk talk.

[kiwi3129]

So far we've steered clear of any problems coming up with literature. So far it's Disney movies that I've been careful about. They seem to have a lot of the issues you mentioned too.

[sparrow]

Well, I guess I'll be the voice of dissent and say that I do think that adoptive parents tend to be too sensitive. I understand though.

 

I catch myself flinching at books or movies that carry an adoption story and then I remember my parents certainly never tiptoed around the issue and it never bothered me, growing up as an adoptee. I have asked my kids if certain movies or books bothered them and they look at me like I've grown 2 heads. They've answered with "no, why would it?" This is where I stumble and say, "you know, the adoption thing". They typically respond saying they hadn't even thought about it.

 

Obviously, this is just my experience. My response is directed to the OP and not those of you that shared you have a child for which these books and movies have caused grief. If you have a child that has shared that they are bothered by such things, you'll want to be more careful :grouphug:.

[Paintedlady]

Of course I've noticed it throughout literature and movies, but honestly I've never given it a lot of thought. My kids are very aware of their stories and feel secure within our home and their place in their birth families' lives. So far we haven't hit a snag with it. If their stories were different (abuse/neglect) then it might be different.

[HomeschoolMum]

Well my adopted daughters just love Ann of Green Gables BUT my 16 year old came to me in tears after reading the first few pages of Oliver Twist and refused to read more..I had fogotten about the woman who ran an orphanage and took babies and killed them....our kids were adopted out of orphages so that hit too close to home.

 

Our kids have ALL made comments they really wish there were more classics with intact families as they get sick of the "little orphan" theme a bit.

[bethben]

I've noticed the whole "adoption" theme with a lot of fairy tales. I don't stop reading them, but have you noticed how the birth mom was always pretty, sweet, and wonderful, while the step-mother is always mean and horrible? I found myself getting caught up with Tangled also because the woman who was not Rapunzel's real mother was horrible and her birth mom was pretty, sweet, and wonderful (and still alive). Dd didn't at all see that, but I had to alter my speech a bit with that whole thing! Dd has never known another mommy nor does she really understand that there was another mommy right now. All she knows is that, as she puts it, "was in China crying - I want a Mommy, I want a Mommy!"

 

Beth

[Matryoshka]

I found myself getting caught up with Tangled also because the woman who was not Rapunzel's real mother was horrible and her birth mom was pretty, sweet, and wonderful (and still alive).

 

Well, I wouldn't hold up Tangled as an adoption story. It is a kidnapping story. That wasn't her adopted mom, it was her kidnapper.

[Mommie_Jen]

I'm quite sensitive to it, and DS is also, to a point. He's not quite old enough yet to pick up on some of the subtle things I notice. He struggles some with abandonment feelings and did spend time in an orphanage. Boxcar children are out. I DESPISE Stellaluna with a passion. He watched Tangled with a friend about 1 1/2 years ago, so he would have been right around turning 4. It sent him into an angry tailspin that lasted for weeks and we had to do quite a bit of damage control. To this day, he won't watch it. (But we don't watch a lot of Disney anyway) He would love Peter Pan, but I don't know if he can process the Lost Boys yet. He's a deep thinker and very sensitive to adoption and loss issues. We haven't read Horton or Are You My Mother, but when he was younger he liked A Mother For Choco.

Edited May 12, 2012 by Mommie_Jen

[OrganicAnn]

From reading Bruno Bettelheim's book "The Importance and Meaning of Fairy Tales" about 20 years ago, I think stories where children have lost a parent are very typical or archetypal. One of children and parents biggest fear is the loss of a parent and how a child will survive the world. These stories are in some way meant to help kids know that they can conquer their worst fears.

 

But for kids that are adopted or in foster relationships or step families, I can see where they are probably too much.

 

My DH and I joke about *all* the Disney stories have the mother dead or missing - Nemo, Cinderella, Beauty and the Beast, Little Mermaid, Aladdin, Snow White, Lion King, Bambi.... I mean come on. Can't you have one mother who is still alive?!

[kalliemorgan]

From reading Bruno Bettelheim's book "The Importance and Meaning of Fairy Tales" about 20 years ago, I think stories where children have lost a parent are very typical or archetypal. One of children and parents biggest fear is the loss of a parent and how a child will survive the world. These stories are in some way meant to help kids know that they can conquer their worst fears.

 

But for kids that are adopted or in foster relationships or step families, I can see where they are probably too much.

 

My DH and I joke about *all* the Disney stories have the mother dead or missing - Nemo, Cinderella, Beauty and the Beast, Little Mermaid, Aladdin, Snow White, Lion King, Bambi.... I mean come on. Can't you have one mother who is still alive?!

This is an interesting observation. I can remember playing with all of my cousins day after day, week after week pretending that we were orphans and having to set up our new little family - the boys off to build a house and get the deer for dinner, I , by default the new mother (I assume because I was the oldest girl) and so forth. However, I don't know if it would have been the game of choice had any of us actually come from that situation. But I can see how psychologically kids are unwittingly teaching themselves to prepare for the worst- the possibility of there being no one to care for them, or worse, no one to love them.

[rutamattatt]

Our dd came to our family through int'l older child adoption. (She was 13 at time of adoption.) I never realized how prevalent adoption stories were in literature/movies until we adopted.

 

The thing we have found is that sometimes, no matter how "pro-adoption" the story line of a book or movie is, that positive message is not always the takeaway for our daughter. A few times we have been caught off guard by what simple stories bring up for her. On the other hand, she was supposed to go see a movie with the youth group about a girl who finds out she is adopted and the product of a failed abortion. We talked to her ahead of time about the content, thinking she would probably opt not to see it, but instead she smiled and said, "I could be this movie!" and was fine with it.

 

I am debating about Anne of Green Gables too. One of my all time favorite books and I love the movie, but it isn't easy to tell how if may (or may not!) affect DD.

 

What I am learning is that every adoptee/adoptive family is different with regards to this, and even in our family DD's reaction/response varies too. It's good for me to read this thread though and know we aren't alone in navigating this! :001_smile:

[SKL]

I forgot to mention Harry Potter in my list of examples!

 

My kids have read "Are You My Mother" without any problem. I used to worry about it, but then I thought, well, all the kids will notice is that the baby is the same species as the mother. So far, so good. They've also seen movies of Heidi, Little Princess, the Secret Garden, the Wizard of Oz (though the adoption aspect isn't obvious there), and perhaps others which I'm not recalling. They understand the story lines but have not had bad reactions to these, so far. They've also watched Mother Teresa with the orphanage and adoption stuff.

 

About Tangled, my kids know the kid was kidnapped, but somehow this still bothered them a lot. My youngest (who is normally very mellow) had a massive tantrum and started yelling about how she's going to leave me as soon as she's 18 and so on. It was just too raw for her. Another one that left a bad taste was Rumpelstiltskin, another case where a bad person tried to take a baby away from a good mother.

 

My girls' story is that their bio moms chose to make an adoption plan for them and turned them over to foster care shortly after birth. The adoptions were closed, but as far as I know, the bio moms (and bio dads) are still alive. So maybe, from what I'm reading here, the books I need to be most careful about are those where the bio mom is still alive, particularly if she's a good person and the adoptive mom is kinda bad. Hmm, interesting thoughts.

Edited May 12, 2012 by SKL

[Heather in Neverland]

So far we've steered clear of any problems coming up with literature. So far it's Disney movies that I've been careful about. They seem to have a lot of the issues you mentioned too.

 

UGH. IKWYM.

 

The second Kung Fu Panda movie bothered my 8yo adopted ds a lot. It creeps up everywhere and I never would have noticed it until I became an adoptive mother.

 

Then 2 weeks ago we went to see The Avengers and at one point Thor is defending Loki saying basically "don't say bad things about my brother" to which the Black Widow replies "he killed 80 people in 1 day!" and Thor replies...

 

"Well, he's adopted." :glare:

 

 

.

[SKL]

I would think that Moses would be a positive spin, since his mother was saving him from being slaughtered, purposefully set it up so Pharaoh's daughter would find him, had Moses' sister watching and waiting to volunteer to "find" a nurse maid, and then his mother ended up able to care for him anyway, even though he was adopted into Pharaoh's household. Love from a distance? Love with the greater good in mind? These are just thoughts...

 

Yes, but I recall being uncomfortable and doing damage control during this movie The Ten Commandments - trying to remember now - after Moses was an adult and was reunited with his bio mom, there was some talk about how he never was his adopted mom's child, really. I wish I could remember better. I didn't think that was terribly helpful.

[kalliemorgan]

Yes, but I recall being uncomfortable and doing damage control during this movie The Ten Commandments - trying to remember now - after Moses was an adult and was reunited with his bio mom, there was some talk about how he never was his adopted mom's child, really. I wish I could remember better. I didn't think that was terribly helpful.

 

Yeah, I guess I was coming more from the reason he was given up. I didn't think the other aspect through well.

 

Man, the adoption/foster thing is so fraught with potential emotional conundrums! I had viewed adoption as a clean cut thing for years (from a very narrow viewpoint of "We want a child + They need a parent = Happiness and joy forever"). But the more I learn, the more my respect goes to families that do adopt. It is such unfamiliar territory to me, and things I never would have thought about can have such a major impact on kids/parents. There is a lot to think about and meditate on just how the kids view things. It is interesting to me and overwhelming at the same time! Good for all of you that take the time to care what your kid's feelings and reactions may be. You are beyond excellent parents!

[LibraryLover]

Tangled has an adoption theme? My dds watch this about once a week/twice a month, and they are not littles.

 

Interesting. I will have to watch it.

 

As for the No Parent theme...there is no adventure if a parent is by your side. The thrill is venturing out on your own.

 

That's classic, and I've never worried, although we have talked about wishing we could communicate/observe in the way Harry can. :(

 

Such a universal theme.

 

ETA: I do not like Stella Luna (although the art really is lovely), and while I know the book, 'Are You My Mother?" , I never thought it was right for us.

Edited May 12, 2012 by LibraryLover

[Greenmama2]

Not an adoptive parent or an adopted child, but I do recall clearly how much Are You My Mother? Disturbed me as a child.

[LibraryLover]

The movie that freaked us out the most? The Parent Trap. My kids hate that one. If you had any resources at all, why would you split up siblings/twins?

Edited May 12, 2012 by LibraryLover

[SKL]

Tangled has an adoption theme? My dds watch this about once a week/twice a month, and they are not littles.

 

Interesting. I will have to watch it.

 

I didn't expect that either. I didn't watch it with my kids the first time (their aunt did). I happened to see the scene where Rapunzel confronts the witch after discovering that she'd kidnapped her and posed as her mother. It's a very passionate scene and could easily be transferred to a situation where a child was adopted, especially if you think of the possibility that the adoptive mom wanted the adoption more than the birth mom did. (We have no factual reason to think this, but kids do imagine stuff.)

 

Come to find out other adopted kids have also had really emotional reactions after seeing this movie. I kinda wish I had known this in advance. Even if I let them watch it, I'd have watched with them the first time so I could do damage control.