Why is the public school system failing; looking for statistics/personal testimony

[didadeewiththree]

I am doing a persuasive speech on homeschooling vs public schooling, and I am trying to persuade my audience to homeschool by showing them reasons that the public school is failing our society's children. I need some statistics that make you believe so, or just personal testimony.

 

Or maybe Im going abt this the wrong way, and maybe I should not diss on public school so much, instead pointing out all the wonderful ways homeschooling turns out better students, both in character and academically.

 

How can I persuade my audience to want to homeschool instead of sending their child to public school?

 

I appreciate any ideas! I already have a few reasons to homeschool, like less peer pressure to deal with on a daily basis, more individualized study and attention from parents, etc.

 

I need to win this group over in 6-8 minutes of talking:)

Edited April 24, 2012 by neenee7

[Jpoy85]

well heres my experience with my children.

 

I have 2 children in 1st grade. 1 is homeschooled and 1 is in public school. You can tell the difference in health and education. N is ALWAYS sick with something, C isnt. Despite both being in 1st grade, they are on totally different levels. C knows a broader range of topics and seems to remember details better. N knows specific things and when asked " I dont know" or " I dont remember". As far as the behavior, theres a clear difference there too. Its not a boy/girl thing either. He is exposed to things in PS, where C isnt. I can control who C is around, I cant with N.

[MomatHWTK]

Personally, I would focus on the positives. When I compare to ps in conversation, I may reference that the ps can't do something that I can with homeschooling because of logistics or finances. (i.e. One on one teaching for each child would be financially difficult for a ps to achieve.)

 

The only area in which I am willing to step out and be critical is the topic of mandated or prohibited topics in school that aren't the "three R's". I will speak critically of children being taught about social topics that I believe should be left to the parent.

 

For sta****tics, there have been several books and documentaries published recently that should have the information you want. "Waiting for Superman" comes to mind but I know there are others.

[Spy Car]

I think you are arguing for a false premise. According to the imperfect (but common) metric of standardized testing the trend for over-all educational results in public schools is up.

 

Are there still failing schools in America? Sure, too many. But there are highly functioning schools and reasonably good schools as well. The situation is not so different than the disparity of education in "home schools" which can range from superlative to border-line neglect (or worse).

 

The difference in either case is highly involved parents. Anyone who thinks a school can (or should) shoulder 100% of the educational responsibility is kidding themselves.

 

Proponents of good education (whether that happens primarily in a homeschool, private school, or public school) ought not be antagonists, but instead be united in the common purpose of advancing the education of all our children.

 

Bill

[kewb]

Why is it failing? No Child Left Behind. The emphasis on testing being all that and a bag of chips instead of testing being what it is supposed to be. A tool to determine where a child needs assistance.

 

Teachers from pre-no child left behind are retiring or have already left. There is no one who remembers how great a public education could be and how to implement it.

 

Overcrowding in the classrooms is also a factor.

 

The other reason it is failing, imo, is parents. Parents expect the schools to do their job. It is a big part of the problem. Before anyone flames me, I know it is not all parents but it is more than enough of them that it effects the learning of everyone in the classroom.

 

Economics also plays a part. When you are exhausted from working 40+ hours a week just trying to put food on the table it does not leave a lot left over to help children with homework.

[regentrude]

I am doing a persuasive speech on homeschooling vs public schooling, and I am trying to persuade my audience to homeschool by showing them reasons that the public school is failing our society's children.

 

Do you really want the reasons?

Parents not doing their job and schools having to pick up the slack is on top of the list (cause of all discipline issues for example)

Low expectations, elite being a bad word - societal climate fostering mediocrity.

Poorly trained teachers not proficient in their subjects.

 

None of these are good arguments for homeschooling - you do not want the reasons schools are failing, but you want the symptoms how they are failing.

 

 

How can I persuade my audience to want to homeschool this instead of sending their child to public school?

...

I need to win this group over in 6-8 minutes of talking:)

 

Is that for real? I can not imagine anybody becoming convinced to make such an important decision by a stranger giving an 8 minute speech. I do not think this a realistic expectation. Or is this just for some debate exercise without any real background?

[didadeewiththree]

I suppose that I cannot absolutely prove why and if schools are failing, so maybe my focus should be more on why homeschooling is better, in my opinion, than public schooling. I do plan on telling them that I do think public school should remain an option; I don't think everyone should or can homeschool, depending on their circumstances.

 

I need to state the problem, which I thought would be failing literacy rates, high number of teens using drugs are from public schools, lower scoring on SAT/ACT's, but I still have to research these things, and maybe even research what the problem really is.

 

I am then supposed to recommend a solution to the problem, to homeschool instead.

 

I was drawing a blank, but all of your ideas so far are bringing up new points to ponder on.

 

I guess to say that the public school system is failing is a hasty generalization. I am not opposed to public school; I just like homeschooling better:)

[didadeewiththree]

Do you really want the reasons?

Parents not doing their job and schools having to pick up the slack is on top of the list (cause of all discipline issues for example)

Low expectations, elite being a bad word - societal climate fostering mediocrity.

Poorly trained teachers not proficient in their subjects.

 

None of these are good arguments for homeschooling - you do not want the reasons schools are failing, but you want the symptoms how they are failing.

 

 

 

 

Is that for real? I can not imagine anybody becoming convinced to make such an important decision by a stranger giving an 8 minute speech. I do not think this a realistic expectation. Or is this just for some debate exercise without any real background?

 

This is for my Oral Communication class at my local community college. There will only be a small amount of people viewing the speech and they are not willing participants actually wanting to hear about homeschooling; they are only there to give their speech and listen to mine. I am just stuck on making a good speech and need some ideas flowing so I can create my outline and start practicing. I doubt that I'll really win them over in 6-8 minutes, but for my grades's sake, I have to try.

 

Im assuming that my audience may not even have kids and Ill also bet that they were public schooled too(like me). I just thought I'd bring this to their attention because so many people never even think of homeschooling as an option.

 

I figured that since I now homeschool, this would be an easy topic to do a speech on, but I'm stumped based on what I have so far. Thanks for the real reason...maybe I should hold back a few from this audience:)

[MomatHWTK]

Take a look at these handouts to help you get started:

http://writingcenter.unc.edu/resources/handouts-demos

 

First, you need to know what your actual topic is. There are many reasons to homeschool beyond it being an alternative to public school. A homeschool advocacy speech should focus on just that- advocacy.

 

If the purpose of the speech is to identify and solve specific problems relating to public school,the offering up homeschooling as the solution is far too narrow. Besides, I don't think 5-6 minutes is going to allow you to cover the topic adequately.

 

I think you are starting at the middle or end with your research, and in order to be effective you need to start at the beginning. Determine your premise, your audience and your goal, then start your research. ;)

 

Ahhh.. posting at the same time. So is this your persuasive speech assignment or your compare and contrast one?

[Crimson Wife]

At the turn of the 20th century, 50% of high school students in the U.S. studied Latin. By 1994, only a mere 1.6% did. Yes, high schools educate a wider range of students today than back then, but as those of us who have started the language with elementary school students can attest, it doesn't take someone working at an honors high school level to learn Latin.

[Tarreymere]

We began to homeschool when our older children were in middle school and high school because of the negative social pressures they ran into. My older daughter was a quiet girl who loved to read and she had become a target for some very vicious bullies who physically attacked her. My second daughter was easily influenced by this same crowd and became a bully herself and later as this group dared her on she began to break the law. Less than a year into that scene she was brought up on her first felony charges. Both girls had been identified as gifted in elementary school and had never had any problems prior to this.

 

I think over the years this kind of thing is even more common in my area as classroom sizes grow larger and larger and there is less supervision from teachers.

 

I also have a stepson who did graduate from this same school (he stayed in the school despite being severely bullied because his mother insisted on it) and he was not able to get a job with any of our local temp agencies on graduation because he couldn't pass their basic proficiency tests in reading and math. He was not able to get a driver's license until he was nearly twenty-one because he could not read or understand the questions on the written exam even with coaching. The language was just too difficult for him.

 

He passed his classes because the grading system was designed to pass kids who stuck it out, so that the school's graduation rate would look better. He was allowed to retake the exact same test over and over again, he was allowed to turn in homework for a third of his grade even if it was not done correctly, and another third of his grade was based on his classroom behavior. He didn't actually learn a thing and he really didn't have to. Today he has a high school diploma and is nearly illiterate.

 

Public education may work well in some areas but not in ours. I think as parents we owe it to our kids to try to do the best we can for them and sometimes that means homeschooling.

[didadeewiththree]

This is my persuasive speech assignment based on the motivated sequence pattern which requires

1. an attention step

2. a need step that fully explains the nature of the problem

3. a satisfactory step that explains how the proposal solves the problem in a satisfactory manner

4. a visualization step that provides a personal application of the proposal

5. an action appeal step that emphasizes the specific direction that listeners' action should take.

 

My biggest problem has been identifying the problem and then addressing the solution.

 

Here is my first sample outline:

 

Topic: Home schooling verses public school

General Goal: To persuade

Specific Goal: I would like my audience to fully understand how home schooling can be superior to public school and that anyone can do it if they want to.

Thesis Statement: By the end of this speech you will understand the in and outs of homeschooling and discover how you can educate your child in life without the negative effects of compulsory school.

The problem is that today’s children are not getting a proper education because of the negative effects in schools including exposure to drugs, promiscuous sex, bullying, and a slew of other factors. Low test scores and frequently failing schools across the nation show us that intervention is necessary and that it is time to take matters into our own hands.

Homeschooling benefits by including smaller class sizes, which provide more individualized instruction, and more academic time spent on the core subjects. The proof is that homeschoolers are frequently performing better on standardized tests than their public school peers.

[regentrude]

Here is my first sample outline:

 

Topic: Home schooling verses public school

General Goal: To persuade

Specific Goal: I would like my audience to fully understand how home schooling can be superior to public school and that anyone can do it if they want to.

 

 

You will be alienating part of your audience because this claim is not true. No, not everybody can homeschool. Not even if they want to. Making general claims like that will not lend credulity to your argument.

 

Thesis Statement: By the end of this speech you will understand the in and outs of homeschooling and discover how you can educate your child in life without the negative effects of compulsory school.

 

 

No way. Many of us who homeschool for years do not understand the in and outs of homeschooling. Way too ambitious a goal - you can not possibly deliver.

[didadeewiththree]

Take a look at these handouts to help you get started:

http://writingcenter.unc.edu/resources/handouts-demos

 

First, you need to know what your actual topic is. There are many reasons to homeschool beyond it being an alternative to public school. A homeschool advocacy speech should focus on just that- advocacy.

 

If the purpose of the speech is to identify and solve specific problems relating to public school,the offering up homeschooling as the solution is far too narrow. Besides, I don't think 5-6 minutes is going to allow you to cover the topic adequately.

 

I think you are starting at the middle or end with your research, and in order to be effective you need to start at the beginning. Determine your premise, your audience and your goal, then start your research. ;)

 

Ahhh.. posting at the same time. So is this your persuasive speech assignment or your compare and contrast one?

 

Thanks for the link; it was most helpful. I agree that 6 minutes is not long enough to talk about fixing public school and describing why to homeschool; I should instead focus on the the pros of homeschooling and what statistics show that leads us to believe it works, plus personal testimony, which cannot be measured by any test.

[didadeewiththree]

You will be alienating part of your audience because this claim is not true. No, not everybody can homeschool. Not even if they want to. Making general claims like that will not lend credulity to your argument.

 

 

 

No way. Many of us who homeschool for years do not understand the in and outs of homeschooling. Way too ambitious a goal - you can not possibly deliver.

 

I agree; it would take me years to deliver a speech that way! That is just the rough outline I had to turn in; I really didnt know what to write. As you can see, I need some fine tuning help.

[MomatHWTK]

This is my persuasive speech assignment based on the motivated sequence pattern which requires

1. an attention step

2. a need step that fully explains the nature of the problem

3. a satisfactory step that explains how the proposal solves the problem in a satisfactory manner

4. a visualization step that provides a personal application of the proposal

5. an action appeal step that emphasizes the specific direction that listeners' action should take.

 

My biggest problem has been identifying the problem and then addressing the solution.

 

 

Your outline isn't really following the above steps. So I would take a step back. Your outline did craft a speech, but not the one assigned. (I only know this because DS is taking an interactive class on writing and it told us to first make sure we understood the assignment. ;))

 

To do a brief speech you need a discreet and simply problem. For instance, you wouldn't say "Here's how to solve world hunger." You would say, "One reason for world hunger is that food cannot be quickly and efficiently distributed to those in need of it." Then your solution would focus on the narrower topic of logistics.

 

If you want to write about homeschooling perhaps your problem could be either a lack of awareness of the option, state laws that discourage participation, the inability of parents to locate and use relevant resources (i.e. they don't know how to get started).

 

Sorry- too much caffeine today and I've been studying this topic in anticipation of teaching my own kids. I'm actually reading through the fallacy handout from the website I gave you. :001_smile:

[Spy Car]

Instead of attempting to knock the public schools, focus on the positive aspects of home education (and here *I* would try to bridge the gap between full-time home schooling and the opportunities of "after-schoolers" to avail themselves of great educational recourses that might well not exist if it were not for the home school market existing). Otherwise those who attend good schools will feel "defensive" and those that already know their school is bad will not need further convincing.

 

The ability to individuate learning in the home vs the school is an overwhelming advantage. This works for really bright children, children with special needs, and those that fall into the so-called "normal" range.

 

There is an opportunity to go "deeper" than is commonly the case in public schools. There is an opportunity to use more interesting programs that commonly used in public schools. There is the opportunity to build family relationships and instill moral values that is different than the public school experience.

 

Then you might speak to some of the "issues" and fears the general public has of home education. How you practically ensure there is not isolation and loneliness (the dreaded "socialization" issue), concerns that as elementary school transitions to middle and high school how you as a parent-teacher compensate for not having specialized education in every subject. As these are thing people worry about.

 

If you seek the common ground—which includes the idea that parents need to be involved in their children's education—I think you will find a receptive audience.

 

Bill

[FO4UR]

Problems with PS (as I see it):

 

Lack of engagement. (Bored with bland tb information...who needs this stuff? memorize for the test, regurgitate, and get on with the weekend...)

 

 

Lack of personal motivation. (Work is for the teacher, for a grade, and students will usually do the minimum requirement for the grade desired. It doesn't usually dawn on students that they might actually LOVE a subject if they had *time* to explore it on their own...b/c they don't have time to think about that.)

 

 

 

Lack of time. School is a huge time-vacuum. Students have little to no time to pursue their interests outside of school. No interests = no REAL learning.

 

 

Lack of personal discipline. Students are kept in line by institutional rules and herd think. They don't get the chance to develop disciplined habits that improve their lives, for themselves.

 

 

Academic failure. The methods used by many ps's are known failures for large %'s of students. Check out some stats on literacy rates for US high school grads. Ask SWB about the rate of freshman students who enter college unable to write a simple paper.

 

 

Unacceptable rates of remediation for kids who fall into that failure %.

 

 

 

Homeschool is NOT a cure-all for any of this, but it does provide the *opportunity* to transcend these problems.

 

 

From the mouth of my 9yo, "I love HSing b/c my mom can choose the best books for us!" (We read real classic children's literature.)

[OH_Homeschooler]

I think you are arguing for a false premise. According to the imperfect (but common) metric of standardized testing the trend for over-all educational results in public schools is up.

 

Are there still failing schools in America? Sure, too many. But there are highly functioning schools and reasonably good schools as well. The situation is not so different than the disparity of education in "home schools" which can range from superlative to border-line neglect (or worse).

 

The difference in either case is highly involved parents. Anyone who thinks a school can (or should) shoulder 100% of the educational responsibility is kidding themselves.

 

Proponents of good education (whether that happens primarily in a homeschool, private school, or public school) ought not be antagonists, but instead be united in the common purpose of advancing the education of all our children.

 

Bill

 

Yep, and you never hear about when schools are doing well. You hear the horror stories all the time. It's a misleading sampling of information.

 

I would definitely focus on the positives of homeschooling rather than the negatives of public schooling. Focusing on negatives will only make your audience feel defensive and certainly not persuade them.

[didadeewiththree]

Your outline isn't really following the above steps. So I would take a step back. Your outline did craft a speech, but not the one assigned. (I only know this because DS is taking an interactive class on writing and it told us to first make sure we understood the assignment. ;))

 

To do a brief speech you need a discreet and simply problem. For instance, you wouldn't say "Here's how to solve world hunger." You would say, "One reason for world hunger is that food cannot be quickly and efficiently distributed to those in need of it." Then your solution would focus on the narrower topic of logistics.

 

If you want to write about homeschooling perhaps your problem could be either a lack of awareness of the option, state laws that discourage participation, the inability of parents to locate and use relevant resources (i.e. they don't know how to get started).

 

Sorry- too much caffeine today and I've been studying this topic in anticipation of teaching my own kids. I'm actually reading through the fallacy handout from the website I gave you. :001_smile:

 

I havnt actually written my outline yet, but I need to based on this systematic approach. The other thing I posted was just something I had to turn in as an assignment to show that the project was indeed set into motion, which it isn't just yet.

 

I hope I can do this and deliver on Friday. I just thought maybe Id get some good info to use in my speech from the Hive, maybe some good resources that are better than the books I have, or some points that are worth mentioning in my speech.

 

I need to some juice to back up what I am saying, but first it would help to know what I am saying the problem actually is.

[merry gardens]

...I would definitely focus on the positives of homeschooling rather than the negatives of public schooling. Focusing on negatives will only make your audience feel defensive and certainly not persuade them.

:iagree:

[FO4UR]

Instead of attempting to knock the public schools, focus on the positive aspects of home education (and here *I* would try to bridge the gap between full-time home schooling and the opportunities of "after-schoolers" to avail themselves of great educational recourses that might well not exist if it were not for the home school market existing). Otherwise those who attend good schools will feel "defensive" and those that already know their school is bad will not need further convincing.

 

The ability to individuate learning in the home vs the school is an overwhelming advantage. This works for really bright children, children with special needs, and those that fall into the so-called "normal" range.

 

There is an opportunity to go "deeper" than is commonly the case in public schools. There is an opportunity to use more interesting programs that commonly used in public schools. There is the opportunity to build family relationships and instill moral values that is different than the public school experience.

 

Then you might speak to some of the "issues" and fears the general public has of home education. How you practically ensure there is not isolation and loneliness (the dreaded "socialization" issue), concerns that as elementary school transitions to middle and high school how you as a parent-teacher compensate for not having specialized education in every subject. As these are thing people worry about.

 

If you seek the common ground—which includes the idea that parents need to be involved in their children's education—I think you will find a receptive audience.

 

Bill

 

 

 

I don't think the point is good school vs bad school.

 

 

It's "what are the inherent handicaps of institutionalized school, in general?"

 

 

I think the common ground is wanting the very best education possible for every single American child...or for every child in the world, for that matter. Looking beyond today's US politics, how should we view pedagogy?

 

 

 

That said, there are inherent handicaps in homeschooling too. But, what is viewed as a handicap for a population at large, may not apply to the individual.

 

 

I think the argument that *I* would make is that education choice should be the right of the parent....and if I had longer than 8min to talk, that our gov't should support each child in *their* educational choice.

[didadeewiththree]

I do want to focus on all the positives of homeschooling, but I still need to identify a problem and offer a solution(homeschooling). Any ideas?

 

Are there are good resources online that point out some positive statistics on homeschooling?

[didadeewiththree]

I don't think the point is good school vs bad school.

 

 

It's "what are the inherent handicaps of institutionalized school, in general?"

 

 

I think the common ground is wanting the very best education possible for every single American child...or for every child in the world, for that matter. Looking beyond today's US politics, how should we view pedagogy?

 

 

 

That said, there are inherent handicaps in homeschooling too. But, what is viewed as a handicap for a population at large, may not apply to the individual.

 

 

I think the argument that *I* would make is that education choice should be the right of the parent....and if I had longer than 8min to talk, that our gov't should support each child in *their* educational choice.

 

I like your topic idea, and my idea is similar in that I am challenging the audience to take charge of their child's education and realize that there are in fact choices out there. Why not make make homeschooling one of parent's options on the list?(question to the audience) I can elaborate on all the pluses and implore them to homeschool, but if they can't homeschool, I could encourage them to still stay on top of their child's education.

 

Could my problem be the fact that more parent's are not involved in their child's choice of the right education for them, as a previous poster listed as one of the reason's public school is failing/

[didadeewiththree]

Although a biased resource (your audience may not know that...is this for a school assignment?) I believe HSLDA has some info about a study that has a lot of positives in it.

 

 

Yes, my oral comm college class. I will look on their website, thanks!

[NASDAQ]

Hmm. Might be a bit off course, but how about this?

 

Given: Parental involvement is the most important indicator in future success in school.

Problem: How can we encourage parents to become more involved in their children's education?

Solution: Home schooling and after schooling are ways of increasing parental involvement in education, whether or not the child homeschools through high school:

- Parents become educated about educational issues;

- Parents are able to emphasize their own educational values (e.g. hands on work, conceptual math, science, Latin);

- Parents gain day-to-day involvement in their child's education;

- Parents become intimately acquainted with their own child's learning style;

- Parents take primary responsibility for ensuring that their child meets or exceeds local standards, using the public schools as an optional tool rather than 'handing over' a child and expecting schools to 'do it for us.'

[Spy Car]

I don't think the point is good school vs bad school.

 

 

It's "what are the inherent handicaps of institutionalized school, in general?"

 

Institutionalized School? Seriously Paula you can do better than that.

 

One could certainly have a legitimate discussion of where school have an advantage or disadvantage (generally speaking) vs home-schools. Some factors of advantage of home-schooling, like a teacher (or parent/teacher) being able to give one on one attention can be diminished when the parent/teacher to student ratio (with multiple children in different grades) diminishes.

 

Many of the programs aimed at "independent learning" aim pretty low academically, if we are going to be honest.

 

While our community has many highly-educated parents with backgrounds in advanced mathematics and science (in addition to a liberal education) there is an over-all disadvantage with home education in that not every home educator has a specialized education in everything.

 

So there are advantages and disadvantages to both models. And ways for people who make different decisions to draw on the other sector for help. My son goes to public school (which you know) but I draw on many of the very same programs that you (and other WTM members) use because I want my child to have the same advantages many of your children get in getting a parent-involved education at home.

 

Likewise, many home-school parents will turn to "institutional" schools for specialized instruction during the high school years. We don't need to be antagonists; it does not make sense.

 

I think the common ground is wanting the very best education possible for every single American child...or for every child in the world, for that matter. Looking beyond today's US politics, how should we view pedagogy?

 

I agree.

 

Bill

[didadeewiththree]

Hmm. Might be a bit off course, but how about this?

 

Given: Parental involvement is the most important indicator in future success in school.

Problem: How can we encourage parents to become more involved in their children's education?

Solution: Home schooling and after schooling are ways of increasing parental involvement in education, whether or not the child homeschools through high school:

- Parents become educated about educational issues;

- Parents are able to emphasize their own educational values (e.g. hands on work, conceptual math, science, Latin);

- Parents gain day-to-day involvement in their child's education;

- Parents become intimately acquainted with their own child's learning style;

- Parents take primary responsibility for ensuring that their child meets or exceeds local standards, using the public schools as an optional tool rather than 'handing over' a child and expecting schools to 'do it for us.'

 

I really like this; what would you call this topic?

 

What would I use as statistics to prove my point?(I do need a personal testimony as one of my five resources)

 

As an attention grabber, I was going to use this line by marian Wright Edelman...

 

"Parents have become so convinced that educators know what is best for their children that they forget that they themselves are really the experts."

 

I think this fits into that scenerio quite nicely!

[MomatHWTK]

FWIW, the person grading the speech is presumably an instructor in an institutionalized education setting- so I'd probably not make a criticism of that setting my first line of attack unless I was really, really good at persuasive writing. ;)

[NASDAQ]

I really like this; what would you call this topic?

 

What would I use as statistics to prove my point?(I do need a personal testimony as one of my five resources)

 

As an attention grabber, I was going to use this line by marian Wright Edelman...

 

"Parents have become so convinced that educators know what is best for their children that they forget that they themselves are really the experts."

 

I think this fits into that scenerio quite nicely!

 

"What Homeschooling Can Contribute to Public Schooling"

 

Key statistics: the first set of stats you are going to want are those that show that parental involvement is the primary driver of success in education. That should be easy to find.

 

You'll also want a statistic that shows that home schoolers in general do reasonably well on tests, etc., and that home schoolers are not in general just keeping their kids home and sticking them in front of the TV all day.

[didadeewiththree]

I better get to work then; I'll post what I end up with when I am finished. You guys can keep the resources and ideas coming if you want.

[FO4UR]

Institutionalized School? Seriously Paula you can do better than that.

 

 

We don't need to be antagonists; it does not make sense.

 

 

Bill

 

 

The term institutionalized isn't antagonistic, and I am not being antogonistic in using it. It is what it is. A school is an institution, as it should be.

 

 

From http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/institutionalize

[/url]in·sti·tu·tion·al·ize

 

 

transitive verb

1

: to make into an institution : give character of an institution to <institutionalized housing>; especially : to incorporate into a structured and often highly formalized system <institutionalized values>

 

2

: to put in the care of an institution <institutionalize alcoholics>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There are pros and cons to putting a child in the care of a structured and often highly formalized system for their education. The OP was specifically asking for reasons that the ps is failing. I think that many of those reasons are inherent in the institution itself (other reasons might get me banned for political ranting:tongue_smilie:;)). Mine is a valid opinion, spoken respectfully, and shared by many parents.

 

 

Not all schools are bad. Many are great. Your ds is a fortunate boy to have both a great school and involved parents. I don't assume that his experience is the norm. I would encourage more parents to do as you and your wife do b/c most kids need more than the school can give.

[Word Nerd]

I think you are arguing for a false premise. According to the imperfect (but common) metric of standardized testing the trend for over-all educational results in public schools is up.

 

Are there still failing schools in America? Sure, too many. But there are highly functioning schools and reasonably good schools as well. The situation is not so different than the disparity of education in "home schools" which can range from superlative to border-line neglect (or worse).

 

The difference in either case is highly involved parents. Anyone who thinks a school can (or should) shoulder 100% of the educational responsibility is kidding themselves.

 

Proponents of good education (whether that happens primarily in a homeschool, private school, or public school) ought not be antagonists, but instead be united in the common purpose of advancing the education of all our children.

 

Bill

 

:iagree:

[Spy Car]

The term institutionalized isn't antagonistic, and I am not being antogonistic in using it. It is what it is. A school is an institution, as it should be.

 

 

From http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/institutionalize

[/url]in·sti·tu·tion·al·ize

 

 

transitive verb

1

: to make into an institution : give character of an institution to <institutionalized housing>; especially : to incorporate into a structured and often highly formalized system <institutionalized values>

 

2

: to put in the care of an institution <institutionalize alcoholics>

 

 

 

I think it is disingenuous to argue that the use of the term "institutional schools" to refer to "public schools" isn't a heavily-loaded term in the home school community. Let's move on.

 

There are pros and cons to putting a child in the care of a structured and often highly formalized system for their education. The OP was specifically asking for reasons that the ps is failing.

 

First you have to ask if the proposition is true (or not) and by many measures it is not true at many schools. As said earlier, by many measures the trend over-all is up.

 

Beyond that there are pros and cons to every action in life, and it is reasonable to examine ones options.

 

 

I think that many of those reasons are inherent in the institution itself (other reasons might get me banned for political ranting:tongue_smilie:;)). Mine is a valid opinion, spoken respectfully, and shared by many parents.

 

No one argued that availing oneself of the option to home school wasn't a valid option. It is one with advantages and disadvantages, just like everything in life.

 

 

Not all schools are bad. Many are great. Your ds is a fortunate boy to have both a great school and involved parents. I don't assume that his experience is the norm. I would encourage more parents to do as you and your wife do b/c most kids need more than the school can give.

 

I'd go further and say virtually every child needs more than a school can give. I don't know where parents got the idea that schools could or should shoulder 100% of the educational load, but is a big mistake to think that. Children need parental involvement in their education whether they attend schools or are educated full time in the home. On that I'm confident we can agree.

 

Bill

[Bang!Zoom!]

It's been a long day, and I'm in need of a nap/sugar/caffeine or something, so take this for what it's worth in my current condition...

 

The scope of education in the US is pretty vast in how it's offered...you have private, public, magnet, charter, home school, hybrids, vocational...on and on and on...

 

What if you were to take your position at a very local level, work with what options are available to one specific age range, say...middle school - and then sketch out strengths/weakness patterns to each kind?

 

You'd get tighter statistics this way.

[didadeewiththree]

Well, it looks like my topic is to remain on the topic "Homeschool verses Public School," after I contacted my teacher for help, therefore I will still need facts to back up why homeschooling is preferable over public schooling. Of course, there are pros and cons to both, but I need to state what I think the problem is in school's in general today, what the solution is, and what I would say to the opposition(in this case I will explain why those saying they need socialization are wrong, and will list why). I still need some impressive statistics or facts that would be good to use.

 

Thanks everybody, for all the ideas so far!

[tiffanieh]

FWIW... While we take academics very seriously here, opting out of public school vs. schooling at home for pure academic superiority is not even on my radar of reasons for doing what we do. Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, and there is no wisdom separate from Him. This can never be achieved at public school, since the Lord must be left out of it.

[didadeewiththree]

FWIW... While we take academics very seriously here, opting out of public school vs. schooling at home for pure academic superiority is not even on my radar of reasons for doing what we do. Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, and there is no wisdom separate from Him. This can never be achieved at public school, since the Lord must be left out of it.

 

Very good point; it's also another great reason why we homeschool. I plan on mentioning it in my list of reasons why homeschooling is a great solution, because I do think that children who are homeschooled tend to stay true to their faith. I was going to quote a scripture from Proverbs but decided not to because of the audience I have. I think it's a great reason to homeschool.

[FO4UR]

I think it is disingenuous to argue that the use of the term "institutional schools" to refer to "public schools" isn't a heavily-loaded term in the home school community. Let's move on.

 

 

 

Bill

 

 

 

:confused:

 

 

The term "institutional schools" refers to public and private schools with classrooms and a multitude of children. It refers to the requirement to meet the needs of the most instead of the individual.

 

Truly, it isn't a "heavily-loaded" term. But if thinking so helps your argument, I'll graciously bow out now and let you make your case.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry for the hijack, OP. Let this thread be a warning to you:tongue_smilie:. This can be a hot topic.

[Bang!Zoom!]

http://dese.mo.gov/

 

Here's a link to Missouri Dept. of Education if it's any help.

 

Under the generalized term of "public" education you have many different styles and structures to address - good luck with your study.

 

http://www.heritage.org/applications/schoolchoice/mo

Edited April 25, 2012 by one*mom

[Guest ClassicalGal]

Very good point; it's also another great reason why we homeschool. I plan on mentioning it in my list of reasons why homeschooling is a great solution, because I do think that children who are homeschooled tend to stay true to their faith. I was going to quote a scripture from Proverbs but decided not to because of the audience I have. I think it's a great reason to homeschool.

 

Hi! I'm new here, but this thread really intrigued me, so I wanted to throw in my two cents! I love what Douglas Wilson says in Recovering the Lost Tools of Learning, "Education is a completely religious endeavor. It is impossible to impart knowledge to students without building on religious pre-suppositions. Education is built on the foundation of the instructor's worldview (and the worldview of those who developed the curriculum)." Basically, education can't go on in a moral vacuum. So, reguardless of your specific personal beliefs you have a worldview and that worldview is the lens through which you see everything. As parents, don't we find that one of the most important parts of educating our kids at home? I do!

[didadeewiththree]

Hi! I'm new here, but this thread really intrigued me, so I wanted to throw in my two cents! I love what Douglas Wilson says in Recovering the Lost Tools of Learning, "Education is a completely religious endeavor. It is impossible to impart knowledge to students without building on religious pre-suppositions. Education is built on the foundation of the instructor's worldview (and the worldview of those who developed the curriculum)." Basically, education can't go on in a moral vacuum. So, reguardless of your specific personal beliefs you have a worldview and that worldview is the lens through which you see everything. As parents, don't we find that one of the most important parts of educating our kids at home? I do!

 

Yet another great benefit!I do like to express the importance of my own worldviews onto my children. I can weed through info and explain what I believe and why. I find that it is almost impossible to avoid religion in history studies. It makes me wonder how often a teacher at school comes across something she/he would like to express but cannot due to the taboo religious talk in public schools. I will relfect on this in my growing list of pros, thanks!

[NASDAQ]

I would steer away from "god wants us to homeschool." Generally speeches at college don't have a theological bent.

[didadeewiththree]

I would steer away from "god wants us to homeschool." Generally speeches at college don't have a theological bent.

 

I agree; Ill probably only mention that homeschooling allows families to explore their religion greater than students would in public school, but not give a whole explanation or read scriptures from the Bible. I do have to think about who my target audience is.

 

I also think I won't be able to list all the good reasons either; there are tons! I only really need a handful of the main ones that nicely fit with my "whats my prob/solution" scenerio.

 

But I still like to hear all the reasons why we homeschool of course:)

[mom31257]

My husband is a public school high school history teacher. In his school he sees that the school system is not instilling self-discipline through a lack of external discipline. He sees a huge emphasis on group work, therefore students learn to depend on others to do the work for them. He says the schools require very little memorization of anything which results in the students having a poor knowledge base. There is a complete lack of moral or character education, too. Many of the kids aren't getting these skills at home, so if they don't get it at school, they most likely never will. They are more interested in helping everyone passing a test than preparing them for real life.

[rocketgirl]

(It's because they cannot individualize. I know that they try because I taught for 10 years and I tried. When you have a class of 25 or more, there is just not enough time in the "school day" to individualize, so you group. And "grouping" doesn't "individualize".)

 

We "adopted" a praying mantis egg case a few weeks ago. It didn't do anything for so long that it was just another "appliance" on the kitchen counter, one we'd lift to clean under, set back down, etc. One warm night the kids were playing outback. It was after 8:00 and they were having such a good time we hadn't told them to stop. But I glanced over & noticed there were babies hatching out & all over the habitat!!! I called my kids all in & we watched for over an hour as more and more squirmed out of their egg case like worms, then after a minute or so, popped their fully formed arms and legs free & crawled off. It was truly amazing. And if I had put my kids to bed at 8, they would have missed it.

"School" has time restrictions. "Learning" does not. We home school, and that can happen at any time of day or night, and any day of the week.

[CLBMom]

As a problem with PS maybe the whole No Child Left Behind thing would work. The fact that because their income depends on it PS are forced to teach to the test which in turn narrows the curriculum. That whole mentality leads to the many issues with PS that have already been mentioned. PS scope and sequence is based on that test. In many schools if its not on the test it doesn't get taught. They have to do this to survive. Hsing on the other hand can offer a much broader and complete education.

[stripe]

I think it's hard to say public schools are failing because of lazy, uninvolved parents and the solution is for all those very same people to suddenly stay home and devote themselves to their kids' education.

 

I'd focus on practical aspects that make it helpful for some people -- special needs, special interests, language opportunities (bilingual families and others), flexible schedule allows for travel or unusual hours, and so forth. Presenting it as an opportunity for some people, and for those who are not interested or able, to be better informed about it.

 

I just don't see it as convincing people to homeschool. Sort of like convincing someone to have a natural birth won't work if a) they are a man, b) they aren't pregnant, or c) they have a dire medical condition. Understanding more about it might be a more reasonable goal.

[Alessandra]

I suppose that I cannot absolutely prove why and if schools are failing, so maybe my focus should be more on why homeschooling is better, in my opinion, than public schooling. I do plan on telling them that I do think public school should remain an option; I don't think everyone should or can homeschool, depending on their circumstances.

 

 

Well, you asked. If I heard something like this IRL, I would have a very negative reaction. I would ask who made you the expert on ps "failure" statistics? What is your expertise in this area that should make me listen to you? Since you are just now researching your facts, it sounds as though this info did not play a big role in your decision to hs.

 

Now, on the other hand, if you told me about your own hs journey, I would listen raptly, because your talk would be authentic. Your personal testimony might bring me to consider hs as an option.

 

I'd like to know why you hs, without hearing 'statistics' and 'proof.' Do your kids have more time to play? More family time? Get to go outdoors? If you hs for religious reasons, say so, but add that many hsers do not. Tell how you customize programs for your own dc's learning styles. Talk about what you know best -- your family hs. Talk about what a typical day is like. Tell me about your challenges and rewards.

 

You could debunk a few hs myths if you want -- not everyone wears denim jumpers....

 

You could talk about special opportunities in your area -- a daytime class at a nature center, a hs sports league, etc. Sharing the knowledge that you have accumulated over the years would be much more persuasive to me than a statistic laden diatribe.

Edited April 25, 2012 by Alessandra

[Alessandra]

Great points. Whenever someone asks me why I homeschool and what that is like I never mention anything about the local schools. Even though I don't like them personally, not for one second do I feel as if a parent is making a bad choice by sending their child there. Homeschooling is not for everyone. I guess my only goal would be to say that it is a legitimate choice that can work out very well. Bashing something that the majority of people are going to utilize or have utilized is probably not going to sell anyone on anything.

 

Thank you. IRL, I would enjoy talking to you -- hearing about how your hsing ideas, without having to waste time defending my dc's ps, which I like.