JWSJ Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 During a HSing activity today a mother mentioned that she didn't see the relevance of Shakespeare today. She did not see any value in her children learning, studying, or enjoying his works. I disagreed (of course), but I wanted to see if others also had this opinion. What say you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battlemaiden Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 Oh, that is so sad. His insight into human nature is timeless. Her logic is faulty in so many ways. That is just sad. Everyone should experience Shakespeare. Even if simply minimal exposure so they could enjoy and possibly even learn to savor His wit. Jo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 You could have slung a Shakespearian insult at her, she might have understand that relevance. Okay, being silly. :D In high school I avoided lit classes like the plague, but I loved Shakespeare. Reading or watching Shakespeare is like looking at a piece of fine art. Each moment you watch it something deeper is revealed. But you have to watch(read), listen, and understand its language. I wonder if this person thinks studying art is relevent to today? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle in MO Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 That is so terribly sad and short-sighted. Shakespeare was a genius on the inner workings of human nature and relationship! His rich vocabulary, insights, the absolute beautiful language---how can someone not appreciate that? That's terribly hard for me to understand. Forgive me, but this attitude almost seems like the antithesis to a classical understanding. I remember reading in Debra Bell's book, The Ultimate Guide to Homeschooling, that her children came to enjoy the bard through a host of family plays that their family and some other families from their co-op would host. In other words, they encountered Shakespeare through the avenue of some real fun! You might gently suggest to your friend that she try to experience Shakespeare in another context. I can see how someone might not like Shakespeare if their first exposure to him was perhaps through a dry, dull teacher at some point in time, read out of a barely legible edition of his works. However, I think that reading Shakespeare out of a good edition of his works (like Oxford School Shakespeare), watching a play or a great film adaptation, trying a few scenes in a co-op setting---that might help her to see him in a different light. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TammyinTN Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 How sad for her and her children! :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plaid Dad Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 I'm really starting to loathe the word "relevant." It's used to justify all sorts of mischief, educational and otherwise. How very, very sad for those children! And thank goodness that there are plenty of people who will be happy to teach them about Shakespeare on the day they realize how short-sighted their mother was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soph the vet Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 Not only Shakespeare, but so many authors are probably seen as irrelevant by those who do not want to "work" at reading them. Our culture demands easy and fast right now, KWIM? To read Twain, Cervantes, or Shakespeare takes an engaged mind, real brain rumination, and it is so rewarding. Recently, the President of Education Minnesota (teachers union) was interviewed on TV on how to keep students brains active during the summer and he said the quality of reading does not matter, just quantity.:glare: We are what we eat. We are what we read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizzie in Ma Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 Oh, that is so sad. His insight into human nature is timeless. Her logic is faulty in so many ways. That is just sad. Everyone should experience Shakespeare. Even if simply minimal exposure so they could enjoy and possibly even learn to savor His wit. Jo :iagree: Thanks to a teacher who called him Bill and brought his work to life for many of us, I have read, listened to, watched and acted in the works of Shakespeare. I am blessed and I feel sorry for anyone whose life is poorer for not knowing his work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane in NC Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 (Sarcasm ahead, folks. Proceed with caution.) Not only is Shakespeare irrelevant, consider most subjects taught in school. Is Algebra needed to balance a checkbook? Irrelevant. Is Latin spoken anywhere today? Irrelevant. With spellcheck, must we learn spelling? Gravity happens without understanding physics. And who needs thinking if Talking Heads on television or the radio tell us what to think? (Calm down, Jane.) Maybe I am a bit sensitive as a useless person who spent years studying pure mathematics which does not necessarily have "real world" (i.e. relevant) applications in every day life as seen by the Man on the Street. Personally, Shakespeare has brought me a greater understanding of the human condition. My favorite plays have been the histories, particularly Richard III, and the Roman plays. They are about power and relationships, how power is achieved and how it is exploited. I see that things are not different today than in the scenes Shakespeare created. We can summarize themes, but the language of Shakespeare has us take notice. If Shakespeare is irrelevant, what is relevant? Eating, sleeping, bodily functions? Where do joy and meaning fit into the relevancy equation? Argh.... Jane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karenciavo Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 He introduced hundreds of words and phrases into the English language. My boys read 6 different plays this year and they were constantly amazed by that. Shakespeare is a huge part of our Western culture. Many films are adaptations of Shakespeare and his words and storylines are brought into other literature, Auden, Browning, Dryden, Dickens, Huxley to name a few off the top of my head. I'll ditto Jo, Shakespeare is excellent for the study of human nature and emotions. And his words draw out our emotions as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny in Florida Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 . . . is that exposure to Shakespeare (and other literary and theatrical works) has helped to give my son a vocabulary for thinking about and talking about his own feelings and experiences. I can't tell you how many times we've referred to a play he's seen or a book he's read to help us identify and work through something he's stuggling with. And he's only 10. As others have said, great literature of the past becomes and remains great, often, because it has something to say about our humanity that transcends the time and place in which it was written. And I feel so sad for people who can't see past the archaic (and beautiful) language to touch that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashleen Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 Shakespeare and the King James Bible are the foundations of English as we know it. If you listen, you will hear quotes from Shakespeare and the KJ Bible all day in every possible setting. So even someone who is completely humorless and doesn't care at all about the human condition would still understand the constant references in popular language better with this background. If nothing else, it will raise the All Powerful SAT score. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mama Lynx Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 I'm really starting to loathe the word "relevant." It's used to justify all sorts of mischief, educational and otherwise. How very, very sad for those children! And thank goodness that there are plenty of people who will be happy to teach them about Shakespeare on the day they realize how short-sighted their mother was. Certainly I have seen it used to justify not teaching/expecting students to work with material that is difficult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cedarmom Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 How many phrases do we use today that are from Shakespeare. Off the top of my head I can think of "My kingdom for a horse" All the world is a stage" "Band of brothers' There is so many more. Some of our greatest discussions have come while reading Shakespeare.Just this last week, as we read Richard III,we had some awesome discussions about politics, and how people running for president may just be saying what we want to hear, and if we are able to tell what they really stand for. And of course, I agree with others on relevance. Should I stop eating chocolate or watching sunsets because they are not relevant enough? Yes, we have learned much from Shakespeare, but mostly we have just enjoyed the experience of sitting down together and reading him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mama Lynx Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 . . . is that exposure to Shakespeare (and other literary and theatrical works) has helped to give my son a vocabulary for thinking about and talking about his own feelings and experiences. I can't tell you how many times we've referred to a play he's seen or a book he's read to help us identify and work through something he's stuggling with. And he's only 10. As others have said, great literature of the past becomes and remains great, often, because it has something to say about our humanity that transcends the time and place in which it was written. And I feel so sad for people who can't see past the archaic (and beautiful) language to touch that. The other day my 10 year old was asking about OCD. I gave him a few examples, and he responded: "Oh, like Lady Macbeth trying to wash the blood off her hands?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockermom Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 He introduced hundreds of words and phrases into the English language. My boys read 6 different plays this year and they were constantly amazed by that. Shakespeare is a huge part of our Western culture. Many films are adaptations of Shakespeare and his words and storylines are brought into other literature, Auden, Browning, Dryden, Dickens, Huxley to name a few off the top of my head. I'll ditto Jo, Shakespeare is excellent for the study of human nature and emotions. And his words draw out our emotions as well. :iagree: I was going to say, similarly, that there are so many modern Shakespearean references that her children wouldn't understand. BTW, have you tried the Shakespearean Insulter? http://www.pangloss.com/seidel/Shaker/index.html? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 Why does Shakespeare need to be relevant? It was written to be entertaining. It still is entertaining. Are gameboys relevant, x-box, comic books? Do they need to be defended as such? When did we decide that learning and fun were mutually exclusive? It can be both simultaniously. Shakespeare can be fun and still be an "educational experience." Why must it only be one or the other. I occasionally think that the "Bard" would be flattered but also perhaps shocked at how we view his work today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 Shakespeare still has great influence on our culture and language. I think you must know *something* about Shakespeare in order to be culturally literate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phred Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 During a HSing activity today a mother mentioned that she didn't see the relevance of Shakespeare today. She did not see any value in her children learning, studying, or enjoying his works. I disagreed (of course), but I wanted to see if others also had this opinion. What say you? Did she enjoy West Side Story? (Romeo and Juliet) Forbidden Planet? (The Tempest) The Lion King? (Hamlet) or maybe Kiss Me Kate? (The Taming of the Shrew) Shakespeare's works are the basis of so many singular human stories. How we think, laugh, love, hate and live. Your friend is building a house without a foundation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*anj* Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 That's just one of the most ignorant things I've heard in awhile. Maybe that poor woman never had an English teacher who made Shakespeare come alive for her. Maybe she doesn't read well enough to understand it on her own. So much of our own modern cultural literacy is based upon the works of Shakespeare and the Bible. This is one of the reasons that many public schools offer "Bible as Literature" courses. Sadly, this woman must be ignorant of such things. Ah well, to err is human, to forgive, divine. (I realize that's Alexander Pope and not Shakespeare, but I'm sure she finds him to be irrelevant too. :glare:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Dominion Heather Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 She is a "currish spur-galled flax-wench!" So there!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastian (a lady) Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 During a HSing activity today a mother mentioned that she didn't see the relevance of Shakespeare today. She did not see any value in her children learning, studying, or enjoying his works. I disagreed (of course), but I wanted to see if others also had this opinion. What say you? I totally agree with this mom. It's not as if we have children sneaking around behind their families' backs to hook up. Or interracial couples who struggle to trust one another in the face of malicious talk from friends or neighbors. Or blended families where the step father is selfish and out to do ill to the wife's son. Or refugees from political unrest. Or some political leaders who are courageous to the point of self sacrifice and others who are selfish to the point of destroying their country. People nowadays don't love, lust, trust, deceive, murder or sacrifice themselves. They don't act noble or foolish or selfish or graciously. In short we are totally beyond the sort of human condition that made Shakespeare relevant. :glare: Only because I couldn't find a smily for what planet is this woman on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*anj* Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 :glare: Only because I couldn't find a smily for what planet is this woman on. How about this? Or this? Or maybe this one? Excellent post, btw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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