In2why Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Wow. I decided to read these stories to my littlest and not being familiar with some of them I started with the first one. "The Bronze Ring" he kills and burns 3 dogs, boils the king, turn into horrid negroes, and burns his ring into a mans back, branding and tricking him. I am not impressed. I understand the fairy tales are full of violence, and I am not raising snowflakes, we watch and read things many don't. But I can't for the life of me understand why this story is a classic fairytale or why it has any value. I hate to think I need to preread fairy tales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amsunshine Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Is this an old or a new edition you were reading? (I have no idea if the newer editions might eliminate the unfortunate "negro" reference, but maybe....) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medieval Mom Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 (edited) Wow. I decided to read these stories to my littlest and not being familiar with some of them I started with the first one. "The Bronze Ring" he kills and burns 3 dogs, boils the king, turn into horrid negroes, and burns his ring into a mans back, branding and tricking him. I am not impressed. I understand the fairy tales are full of violence, and I am not raising snowflakes, we watch and read things many don't. But I can't for the life of me understand why this story is a classic fairytale or why it has any value. I hate to think I need to preread fairy tales. The Lang Fairy Books, esp. the Blue, NEED to be pre-read for young dc. I remember a story about people hanging from a tree, a man murdering his wife, etc. Pick and choose. :) Edited March 29, 2012 by Medieval Mom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alisoncooks Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 I have all the Lang fairy tales waiting on my Kindle... Is there a list out there of the ones that are most friendly for little ears? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sewingmama Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 :001_huh: I was just about to start reading these to my kids - thanks for the heads up on pre-reading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momtoamiracle Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 ugh! i just got them for my kindle too. will have to do some editing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommybee Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 I agree about pre reading them. There is one in the Blue book that talks about a man killing all his previous wives and keeping them in the closet....something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abreakfromlife Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 I agree about pre reading them. There is one in the Blue book that talks about a man killing all his previous wives and keeping them in the closet....something like that. Oh, Bluebeard!! I loved that fairytale as a kid. I'm not sure why. My favorite Bible story was the one of Jael pounding the stake in the guy's temple. That sounds so twisted, haha. I'm a pacifist now, so go figure! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluegoat Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Oh, Bluebeard!! I loved that fairytale as a kid. I'm not sure why. My favorite Bible story was the one of Jael pounding the stake in the guy's temple. That sounds so twisted, haha. I'm a pacifist now, so go figure! I loved Bluebeard as well, and still do. It's just so delightfully macabre. I don't know that it would be great for a three year old, but my seven year old enjoyed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amy Jo Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 I don't remember seeing a reference to negros - but I might have missed it as I was reading to myself, not aloud. It didn't seem to dwell on any of the gross/killing parts - one of the Greek myth retellings on mainlesson was far worse on boiling a king alive ... I have the Dover edition. Anyway, Ambleside has a list here for year 1 (bottom of the page) you could start with. I'd still pre-read, of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down_the_Rabbit_Hole Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Yep, lots going on in the Blue Fairy book I would not want to read as bedtime stories to young ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abrightmom Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Wow. I decided to read these stories to my littlest and not being familiar with some of them I started with the first one. "The Bronze Ring" he kills and burns 3 dogs, boils the king, turn into horrid negroes, and burns his ring into a mans back, branding and tricking him. I am not impressed. I understand the fairy tales are full of violence, and I am not raising snowflakes, we watch and read things many don't. But I can't for the life of me understand why this story is a classic fairytale or why it has any value. I hate to think I need to preread fairy tales. Thanks for the heads up. I have no interest in pre reading a bunch of gross fairy tales. I'm deleting these books from my Kindle. I was about to let my 9 yo read them.....:glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 (edited) I don't remember seeing a reference to negros - but I might have missed it as I was reading to myself, not aloud. It didn't seem to dwell on any of the gross/killing parts - one of the Greek myth retellings on mainlesson was far worse on boiling a king alive ... I have the Dover edition.. There was a redone version of a few of the volumes by Brian Anderson. I've got the red, yellow, and green by him (bought by mistake!) but they are physically easier to read than the Dover ones, which are basically exact reprints of the originals. My kids asked about "negro serving boys." Uh. There are a couple stories with that reference. Oops. I was not happy. I am NOT one of those "we just discuss the racist language that pops up" type of people, but I had to for that one, and it may have been beneficial. But only for musty old fairy tale volumes, not history!! Oh well. I've let my kids listen to many of the fairy books on Librivox. They are pretty wild. Bluebeard and Mr Fox are both pretty scary. English Fairy Tales are a bit tamer and easier to read (shorter, larger font size) in the Dover edition. Especially when you read the notes in the back where Jacobs says he changed the profession of the midwife to be the more appropriate "nurse," and removed all mention of the fact she was there to assist the mother in childbirth! That's the one about the ointment in the eyes. I had a 5 year old listening to them, btw. Edited March 29, 2012 by stripe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeverFamily Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 I downloaded them all on to my kindle a couple of days ago. Thanks for the heads up. I may delete them, not sure yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aspasia Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 (edited) Okay, I may be in the minority here but my dd (almost 5) LOVES the Blue Fairy Book, and we let her love it. I'm actually super, duper picky about children's media. My kids haven't seen much of anything when it comes to TV and movies, aside from Barney, Rogers & Hammerstein musicals, and Mr. Rogers. But here's why I let the fairy tales in: 1. They have done amazing things to dd's imaginative play. She hears stories of giants eating kids or dragons flying people around and I just see the little wheels in her head turning. At her age, she comprehends enough to incorporate these fantastical ideas into her world, but she doesn't understand the realities of our world enough to limit her imagination. That's something that doesn't really happen for older kids as much. I love that her imagination goes completely wild with it. I see these characters reappear in her play, often in new "roles" and it just delights me. 2. I don't worry too much about a lot of the crazy stuff because I know that her visuals are limited by the "library" of mental images that she has to draw from. I have been extremely restrictive in what types of visual images I have allowed to reach her, so the images she conjures up while hearing a Lang fairy tale read aloud are pretty harmless. That's the benefit of books over movies: kids are creating their own images, so they come up with visuals that are appropriate for their developmental level--no more and no less (as long as they haven't already seen too many horrible sights). SHE gets to decide how gruesome the images get. I would never, in a million years, expose her to a movie version of them, or movie versions of most other fairy tales--film makers delight in using special effects to scare or disturb the pants off of us. But the images dd has in her mind are basically lovable little cartoon dragons. All that said, I would be lying if I said I don't edit some of the content as we are reading. (Honestly, people killing their wives? No, thanks.) Sometimes I do it for myself--there are some things I just can't read out loud! But this little girl just LOVES Andrew Lang's crazy mind. Edited March 30, 2012 by infomom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In2why Posted March 30, 2012 Author Share Posted March 30, 2012 I get the imagination part, and whole heartedly agree that tales and good stories are wonderful for creating visual imagination while reading. I don't even have a problem with some violence, we did a unit study on Hunger Games and included my 8 year old and even saw the movie to compare, but killing and burning dogs was front and center in my kids head, whereas he didn't quite understand or have a visual reference for "boiling the sultan until the skin fell off his bones" and then rearanging the bones and sprinkling the dogs ashes on them to bring him back to life. The underlying story was even about greed, and not as a negative, so I am not sure I can find any value in that. On the otherhand the story about Why the Sea is Salty was great. I think I will keep them, but will absolutely preread and now will not give them to my 8yo to read on his own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medieval Mom Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 FWIW, we love Andrew Lang's Fairy Books and own all of them. His language is wonderful! Remember, these are collected stories, not out of Andrew Lang's mind, but from the world of folk tales and fairy tales. (Folk tales and fairy tales were NOT originally just for wee ones-- quite the contrary. Imagine a storyteller weaving webs of imagination while he warms his toes by the fire, while listeners gather near with ever-widening eyes. It's our oral tradition; and the race was on among Lang, the Brothers Grimm, Asbjornsen, Moe, and others to collect them.) My best advice is to pre-read any story you're unsure about, or stick to the stories that you personally know well. What one family may enjoy, another would shrink from in horror. My ds, for example, can't stand any cruelty, but LOVES the stories (there are several) of proud young women "speaking frogs" after being bewitched on account of their pride. (The lovely, generous, humble maidens usually pour forth pearls, rubies, or gold coins from their mouths.) It's a pretty potent image! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurelia Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Ambleside Online has a list of chapters they recommend. They don't recommend reading the whole thing. Recommended List (with possible problematic events in parentheses for parents whose children may have specific issues with certain elements of stories) Term 1 (37 pages total) Beauty and the Beast; -Familiar (20 pages) Why the Sea is Salt (a man tells his brother to go the Dead; a ship sinks and all perish) (5 pages) Prince Darling (12 pages) Term 2 (38 pages total) The Glass Slipper; - Familiar (8 pages) Master Maid (Unnecessary cruelty to her suitors. Couldn't she just say no?), (16 pages) Aladdin and the Wonderful Lamp -Familiar (A wicked Magician and his wicked Brother are killed) (14 pages) Term 3 (37 pages total) East of the Sun, West of the Moon; (11 pages) The Forty Thieves (9 pages) White Cat (The white cat is killed and the princess appears) (17 pages) Some Good Alternatives Princess and the Glass Hill; (10 pages) Blue Beard (6 pages) Prince Hyacinth (7 pages) Toads and Diamonds (a selfish girl dies in the woods) - familiar (4 pages) Snow-white and Rose red (a bear kills an evil gnome) - Familiar (7 pages) Hansel and Gretel - Familiar (the witch dies) (8 pages) Rumpelstiltskin (however, Rumpelstiltskin tears himself in half at the end); - Familiar (4 pages) If your children are sensitive to tragic stories, (and every family's needs will be different because children are unique and have varying levels of tolerance) you may prefer these less violent suggestions. However, you may want to first read Donna-Jean's comments before assuming that such tales are bad for children. Term 1 (32 pages total) The Glass Slipper; - common (8 pages) Felicia and the Pot of Pinks; (9 pages) Toads and Diamonds (a selfish girl dies in the woods) - familiar (4 pages) East of the Sun, West of the Moon; (An troll woman bursts with anger) (11 pages) Term 2 (32 pages total) Beauty and the Beast; - Familiar (20 pages) Prince Hyacinth (7 pages) Why the Sea is Salt (a greedy man tells his brother to go the Dead; ship sinks, all perish) (5 pgs) Term 3 (29 pages total) Snow-white and Rose red (a bear kills an evil gnome) - Familiar (7 pages) Prince Darling (12 pages) Princess and the Glass Hill; (10 pages) Some Good Alternatives Hansel and Gretel - Familiar (the witch dies) (8 pages) Rumpelstiltskin (however, Rumpelstiltskin tears himself in half at the end); - Familiar (4 pages) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momtoamiracle Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 well I feel if a story is going to give my son nightmares then it is bad for him. He has SUCH a vivid imagination that things I read as a child and loved, didn't bat an eye at, give him terrible nightmares and worry him for a long time. We have to be very careful what he puts into his little mind. For a long time I was even careful about what Bible stories I read to him. tho come to think of it, maybe reading those is what gave me insomnia at such a young age... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sewingmama Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I don't worry too much about a lot of the crazy stuff because I know that her visuals are limited by the "library" of mental images that she has to draw from. Thank you for this - my kids don't watch a lot of tv and when they do it is always limited to the preschool shows. My DD is a very straight forward, logical thinker so she doesn't get emotional or reactive easily. Yesterday we saw a truck full of cows headed to the local abbatoir and she asked where they were going and I told her the truth and her reply was - "That's right, people eat cows for meat because we are omnivores" :lol: We were discussing the story of Cain and Abel this morning -thats a pretty violent story but again all my kids seemed fine with it. So I think I'll give it a go and see how she takes it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagira Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 :001_huh: I was just about to start reading these to my kids - thanks for the heads up on pre-reading. Yikes! I just got these too. I hope to see a list of the safe ones.. Or even better, the ones to avoid :001_huh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momtoamiracle Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Thank you for this - my kids don't watch a lot of tv and when they do it is always limited to the preschool shows. My DD is a very straight forward, logical thinker so she doesn't get emotional or reactive easily. Yesterday we saw a truck full of cows headed to the local abbatoir and she asked where they were going and I told her the truth and her reply was - "That's right, people eat cows for meat because we are omnivores" :lol: We were discussing the story of Cain and Abel this morning -thats a pretty violent story but again all my kids seemed fine with it. So I think I'll give it a go and see how she takes it. my son would have been asking what exactly did they do, did it hurt the cow, how much blood would there be, would the cow's mother be sad, etc. etc etc.! He's very emotional and goes way beyond what I did at that age... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Element Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) Ambleside Online has a list of chapters they recommend. They don't recommend reading the whole thing. Recommended List (with possible problematic events in parentheses for parents whose children may have specific issues with certain elements of stories) Term 1 (37 pages total) Beauty and the Beast; -Familiar (20 pages) Why the Sea is Salt (a man tells his brother to go the Dead; a ship sinks and all perish) (5 pages) Prince Darling (12 pages) Term 2 (38 pages total) The Glass Slipper; - Familiar (8 pages) Master Maid (Unnecessary cruelty to her suitors. Couldn't she just say no?), (16 pages) Aladdin and the Wonderful Lamp -Familiar (A wicked Magician and his wicked Brother are killed) (14 pages) Term 3 (37 pages total) East of the Sun, West of the Moon; (11 pages) The Forty Thieves (9 pages) White Cat (The white cat is killed and the princess appears) (17 pages) Some Good Alternatives Princess and the Glass Hill; (10 pages) Blue Beard (6 pages) Prince Hyacinth (7 pages) Toads and Diamonds (a selfish girl dies in the woods) - familiar (4 pages) Snow-white and Rose red (a bear kills an evil gnome) - Familiar (7 pages) Hansel and Gretel - Familiar (the witch dies) (8 pages) Rumpelstiltskin (however, Rumpelstiltskin tears himself in half at the end); - Familiar (4 pages) Hmmm. Notice there is no "heads up" about the closet full of dead wives and "clotted blood" in Blue Beard. I'm glad I saw this thread because we just started the Blue Fairy Book today too. Ds was startled by the sultan in The Bronze Ring but he ended up being okay with it because the sultan came back to life. I don't think he would do so well with Blue Beard's closet. I guess I'll just have to pre-read all of them. Sigh. I never wanted to be "censorship mom" but ds is really sensitive. Edited March 30, 2012 by Element Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyhomemaker Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I wish I had seen this thread before I started the book. Ds walked out of the room when I got to the puppy slaughtering part of The Bronze Ring (oddly the sultan boiling didn't seem to bother him, lol). I just preread The Yellow Dwarf and at the very end (it's pretty long) the prince gets stabbed in the heart and dies and the princess then dies of grief. :001_huh: So skipping that for the dc. I'm not a big shelterer, but I think I'll be previewing the fairy tales from now on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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